Pre-Nationals Poll

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Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Fri May 14, 2010 1:33 am

My nats prediction concept was overly complex and fizzled out, so I'm gonna start a pre-Nationals poll instead. Rank your top 10 teams, regardless of class or rogue status, based on their abilities at good quizbowl. Let's have the voting open until, say, 5/20.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Fri May 14, 2010 1:41 am

1. Auburn
2. Stevenson
3. Loyola
4. St. Ignatius
5. Oak Park-River Forest
6. Carbondale
7. Lisle
8. New Trier
9. Hobo
10. IMSA

My ballots for the IHSSBCA polls:
Class AA: 1. Auburn, 2. Stevenson, 3. St. Ignatius, 4. Oak Park-River Forest, 5. Loyola, 6. Carbondale, 7. New Trier, 8. Wheaton-Warrenville South, 9. Niles North, 10. IMSA
Class A: 1. Lisle, 2. Latin, 3. Litchfield, 4. PORTA, 5. Macomb, 6. New Berlin, 7. Tuscola, 8. Warrensburg-Latham, 9. St. Joseph-Ogden, 10. Winnebago
(everything after #2 on the Class A poll may as well have been determined by a drunken game of darts)
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jdeliverer » Fri May 14, 2010 1:56 am

1. Auburn
2. Stevenson
3. St. Ignatius (close)
4. Loyola (close)
5. OPRF
6. Lisle
7. Carbondale
8. New Trier
9. IMSA A
10. Latin

I'll put Dan-Don by himself lower than us, but with teammates he'd be probably #9. This is based on prior stats, but according to "inside sources" at Latin we'll have a strong showing at nationals. I'd like to think we could be as high as #8 by nats.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Fri May 14, 2010 2:00 am

1. Auburn
2. Stevenson
3. Ignatius (You can't justify putting a team that chokes as much as we do up here, plus I hear this Deveau kid is pretty good or something)
4. Loyola
5. Oak Park-River Forest
6. Lisle
7. Carbondale
8. New Trier
9. Hobo
10. IMSA
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Sun May 16, 2010 11:30 am

1. Stevenson
2. Auburn
3. St. Ignatius
4. Loyola
5. OPRF
6. Lisle
7. Carbondale
8. New Trier
9. IMSA
10. Hobo

I liked your original system for nats predictions. More people should do it.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun May 16, 2010 12:19 pm

I finally have time to do mine!
1. Auburn
2. Stevenson
3. Loyola
4. OPRF
5. St. Ignatius
6. Lisle
7. New Trier
8. Carbondale
9. Hobo
10. IMSA
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dominator » Sun May 16, 2010 5:20 pm

I guess I'll try:

(1) Stevenson
(2) Auburn
(3) Loyola
(4) Lisle
(5) St. Ignatius
(6) OPRF
(7) Carbondale
(8) IMSA (w00t)
(9) Hobo
(10) New Trier

I did get to play against all of these teams, albeit often with small sample size. All of the teams near the top are dangerous, but I tended to favor consistency and roster depth.

This list will get shaken up quite a bit for next year's preseason poll.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by adeveau » Wed May 19, 2010 12:16 pm

1. Auburn
2. Stevenson
3. St. Ignatius
4. Loyola
5. Oak Park-River Forest
6. Carbondale
7. Lisle
8. New Trier
9. Hobo
10. IMSA
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Geringer » Thu May 20, 2010 5:18 pm

Is IMSA playing HSNCT?
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dominator » Thu May 20, 2010 7:14 pm

KHAAAAN please wrote:Is IMSA playing HSNCT?
Unfortunately not. It's in the middle of our final exam season.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Mon May 24, 2010 11:56 pm

The horribly belated results:

1. Auburn - 68 pts, 5 1st
2. Stevenson - 65 pts, 2 1st
3. Loyola - 52 pts
4. St. Ignatius - 51 pts
5. OPRF - 42 pts
6. Lisle - 33 pts
7. Carbondale - 31 pts
8. New Trier - 20 pts
9 (tie). IMSA - 11 pts
9 (tie). Hobo - 11 pts

Honorable mention: Latin

Thanks to everyone for voting!
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! » Mon May 24, 2010 11:59 pm

styxman wrote:3. Loyola - 52 pts
4. St. Ignatius - 51 pts

Jeeze people underrate teams when they haven't seen them in a while.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Tue May 25, 2010 12:01 am

Secretary of Bobcats wrote:
styxman wrote:3. Loyola - 52 pts
4. St. Ignatius - 51 pts

Jeeze people underrate teams when they haven't played in a while.
Fixed.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jdeliverer » Tue May 25, 2010 12:30 am

And don't underrate yourself -- I wouldn't be surprised if you were better than they are now. Even earlier in the season you often had higher PPB than Iggy.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Thu May 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Only 1 Illinois team in the top 25 according to the Pre-Nationals poll just compiled. Think the the results will best that?
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Thu May 27, 2010 1:53 pm

Dresden_The_Moderator wrote:Only 1 Illinois team in the top 25 according to the Pre-Nationals poll just compiled. Think the the results will best that?
At HSNCT, yes—in particular, I see Stevenson doing quite well there. At NSC, less likely, but still possible. I think that Illinois teams are habitually underrated by national polls because they tend to play out-of-state opponents very seldom. (Although top Illinois teams' performance against DCC at three tournaments is very inconsistent with the poll.)
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu May 27, 2010 2:04 pm

A state that hasn't produced an NSC top bracket team since 2007 being considered underrated when they often get a few teams onto each top 25 ranking, and in a supposed down year they get slightly fewer? Seriously?

Edit - http://hsquizbowl.org/blog/?p=40 lol
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Thu May 27, 2010 2:21 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:A state that hasn't produced an NSC top bracket team since 2007 being considered underrated when they often get a few teams onto each top 25 ranking, and in a supposed down year they get slightly fewer? Seriously?

Edit - http://hsquizbowl.org/blog/?p=40 lol
I meant "Illinois teams have been habitually underrated this year", and I stand by it. No one said this was a down year for Illinois; it was predicted to be, but I don't think you'll find that anyone who made that prediction thinks it bore out.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Thu May 27, 2010 3:42 pm

jonah wrote:"Illinois teams have been habitually underrated this year"
Someone's a Cubs fan.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Deviant Insider » Thu May 27, 2010 4:06 pm

Jonah wrote:One song whose name means this opens with lyrics about sitting on the porch and counting migrating birds, while another song by this name beseeches the listener to “catch me if I get too high/When I come down/I’ll be coming home”. Bernard Slade wrote a play entitled Same Time, [this], and at the conclusion of the seder, participants proclaim “[this] in Jerusalem”. Also a single from There Is Nothing Left to Lose by the Foo Fighters, name this time that Lions, Bengals, and Cubs fans are always waiting for.

ANSWER: next year [accept obvious equivalents or “BaShanah HaBa’ah” before “catch me”]
He is a Cubs fan, and when he wrote this question it did not refer to the Lions and Bengals.

I suppose that one could make an interesting wager about whether or not the Cubs will win the World Series before an Illinois team wins HSNCT or NSC.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Thu May 27, 2010 4:11 pm

I'm also a realist, and my money is on quizbowl success before baseball success. If it were a choice, I'd bet on neither ever happening.
Last edited by jonah on Thu May 27, 2010 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu May 27, 2010 4:11 pm

Nationally competitive quizbowl team from Pittsburgh or Pirates winning season?
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dresden_The_BIG_JERK » Thu May 27, 2010 4:35 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Nationally competitive quizbowl team from Pittsburgh or Pirates winning season?
Define competitive.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu May 27, 2010 4:37 pm

Dresden_The_Moderator wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Nationally competitive quizbowl team from Pittsburgh or Pirates winning season?
Define competitive.
Let's say NSC top bracket. Still more likely.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by dtaylor4 » Thu May 27, 2010 4:52 pm

HSNCT, it'll depend on how the swiss pair is kind to them. NSC, definitely no teams in the super-playoffs, at most one team in the top two in the prelim brackets.

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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Thu May 27, 2010 5:00 pm

I did my ballot according to how I experienced these teams during the regular season. I'd be curious to know exactly how much studying they have been doing. Particularly: if Auburn and Stevenson have been studying increased-difficulty stuff, they could surprise us all at HSNCT and NSC.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Terrible Shorts Depot » Thu May 27, 2010 8:48 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Nationally competitive quizbowl team from Pittsburgh or Pirates winning season?
I'd say our fifth place HSNCT finish your junior year would be suitable to call "nationally competitive." As far as it ever happening again, I'll say that the Pirates have a better chance. They've got until 2012 before I start getting apocalyptic.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu May 27, 2010 9:04 pm

Terrible Shorts Depot wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Nationally competitive quizbowl team from Pittsburgh or Pirates winning season?
I'd say our fifth place HSNCT finish your junior year would be suitable to call "nationally competitive." As far as it ever happening again, I'll say that the Pirates have a better chance. They've got until 2012 before I start getting apocalyptic.
I mean in the future, much as we've had a winning season before. I sorta want the 1992 Pirates, however old they are now, to play today's team and see how it'd go.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by dtaylor4 » Mon May 31, 2010 9:06 pm

Prelim records at HSNCT:

Stevenson, Glenwood, Auburn, OPRF: 7-3
St. Ignatius, New Trier, Carbondale, Loyola: 6-4
Latin, Wheaton-Warrenville South, New Berlin: 5-5
Auburn B, Auburn C, St. Viator: 4-6
Riverside Brookfield: 3-7

Stevenson ended up T-11, which was the top finish.

On the whole, with the exception of Glenwood, I can't say I'm surprised. The lack of comp math tossups probably hurt a few teams, and given the difficulty of bonuses, the teams with experience on higher level questions did better.

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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Bonito » Mon May 31, 2010 9:28 pm

Did anybody see Glenwood play at HSNCT? Are they used to NAQT/pyramidal?
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Mon May 31, 2010 9:30 pm

They were in my room for one round, immediately after lunch. Frankly, they looked really bad, and lost by a significant margin. Dale tells me they did much better in the other rounds, and were affected by the food in that round; I don't doubt this. I'm guessing they were able to go 7-3 because they got an easy schedule after losing that game.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Deviant Insider » Mon May 31, 2010 10:15 pm

They played a Kickoff and Springfield, which use NAQT, and they won WUHSAC against a bunch of Missouri teams, which is a good housewrite. I'll admit that I'm curious to see which seven teams they beat, but I'm not shocked they made the playoffs.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:04 am

I read for Glenwood in a prelim match against a fairly bad team (I'll try to remember which when stats are up). They were unimpressive, with a score around 150 I think. I hate to call it a "fluke" that they finished as good as Loyola and ahead of St. Ignatius on the strength of that 7-3 record, but...I guess that's what the card system does. We definitely did not overlook them in our poll.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Geringer » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:35 am

When I moderated for Chatham-Glenwood at Springfield, they had a fair amount of powers and early buzzes, which, you know, score points regardless of competition. I think they ran into some pretty rough opponents in the playoffs (one of them was Dorman A). It's pretty poor sportsmanship to call it a fluke. I mean, there is a reason why we play all of those games on Saturday instead of just sitting SC and Maggie Walker up on the stage at 8am on Saturday morning and then going home, and these guys rose to the challenge.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:44 am

KHAAAAN please wrote:It's pretty poor sportsmanship to call it a fluke. I mean, there is a reason why we play all of those games on Saturday instead of just sitting SC and Maggie Walker up on the stage at 8am on Saturday morning and then going home, and these guys rose to the challenge.
Which is:

a) To see if another team can best MW or SC and be crowned national champion. Glenwood didn't.

b) To determine places 3-200, where, in a national championship field, schools such as Loyola definitely belong ahead of Chatham-Glenwood.


I still contend Glenwood's results are fluke-y, good as their team might may be.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by David Riley » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:34 am

To give credit where it's due, we didn't play that well. A number of "Knowledge 101" questions were missed (i.e., missed, not being beaten to the buzzer), and we didn't have two of our starters for most of the time. Maybe it was a fluke, but I find it impressive that C-G did as well as they did for their first time at a national tournament.

All this aside, it was nice to see 14 Illinois teams at a national tournament. Let's continue to spread the gospel of good quiz bowl so that we have even more next year (assuming it will be held in Chicago again, or somewhere within travel distance of most Illinois teams)!
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by CometCoach72 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:53 am

Underrating Chatham Glenwood for 2010-2011 should be done at your own peril.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by DongDonger » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:39 pm

I definitely feel Stevenson should be number 1, they're definitely ahead of Auburn. Auburn is losing one of their best players while Stevenson keeps two great juniors.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by jonah » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:16 pm

DongDonger wrote:I definitely feel Stevenson should be number 1, they're definitely ahead of Auburn. Auburn is losing one of their best players while Stevenson keeps two great juniors.
What does the second sentence have to do with a pre-nationals poll, given that Zahed played at HSNCT and will be playing at NSC?

Also, while Auburn is losing Zahed, as I understand it Filip will be stepping up to replace him, and Filip is excellent at history. Lloyd and Abid will continue to get better. I'm not sure who their fourth will be next year, but I don't think Auburn will get worse from now to next year.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by sssssssskkkk » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:55 pm

I'm pretty sure all the good quizbowl programs of Illinois will be able to acquire and cultivate new quiz bowl players that can replace leaving seniors...it's all about how good the replacements are.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:12 am

sssssssskkkk wrote:I'm pretty sure all the good quizbowl programs of Illinois will be able to acquire and cultivate new quiz bowl players that can replace leaving seniors...it's all about how good the replacements are.
Yes. High schools in Illinois do get new students after seniors graduate. We call them "freshmen." Most of them participate in extra-curricular activities, such as quizbowl. They all turn out to have some level of skill that might make them "good" or not. Thank you for explaining how this works.

Holy IMSA invasion.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by sssssssskkkk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:24 am

Dan-Don wrote:
sssssssskkkk wrote:I'm pretty sure all the good quizbowl programs of Illinois will be able to acquire and cultivate new quiz bowl players that can replace leaving seniors...it's all about how good the replacements are.
Yes. High schools in Illinois do get new students after seniors graduate. We call them "freshmen." Most of them participate in extra-curricular activities, such as quizbowl. They all turn out to have some level of skill that might make them "good" or not. Thank you for explaining how this works.

Holy IMSA invasion.
Thank you for over-simplifying what I said.
Building good players is not called "getting freshmen," and "participating in extra-curricular activities" is not called "being good at quiz bowl." Player development also depends a lot on the program - upperclassmen and coaches - as well as the individual efforts that the freshmen make.
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:00 am

sssssssskkkk wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:
sssssssskkkk wrote:I'm pretty sure all the good quizbowl programs of Illinois will be able to acquire and cultivate new quiz bowl players that can replace leaving seniors...it's all about how good the replacements are.
Yes. High schools in Illinois do get new students after seniors graduate. We call them "freshmen." Most of them participate in extra-curricular activities, such as quizbowl. They all turn out to have some level of skill that might make them "good" or not. Thank you for explaining how this works.

Holy IMSA invasion.
Thank you for over-simplifying what I said.
Building good players is not called "getting freshmen," and "participating in extra-curricular activities" is not called "being good at quiz bowl." Player development also depends a lot on the program - upperclassmen and coaches - as well as the individual efforts that the freshmen make.
True. Good programs can breed good players.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

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Charles Martel
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Charles Martel » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:53 am

I find that in most sports, people say that there'll be no good players anymore, or that a team is going downhill, every year when they lose their seniors. The replacement for them doesn't come as much from new freshman as it does from their current freshman, sophomores, and juniors improving.
Adam Kalinich
MIT 2012-
Illinois Math and Science Academy 2009-2012

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Geringer
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Geringer » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:44 pm

So the question is, which one of these guys also attends LPHS?
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sssssssskkkk
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by sssssssskkkk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:53 pm

KHAAAAN please wrote:So the question is, which one of these guys also attends LPHS?
Hmmm I wonder what our IPs are?
Webster Guan
California Institute of Technology (2012-)
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:23 pm

KHAAAAN please wrote:So the question is, which one of these guys also attends LPHS?
Dude, none of these guys are named "Matt." Also, where's Dayo?
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT

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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Dominator » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:23 pm

Dan-Don wrote:Also, where's Dayo?
Banned obv.
Dr. Noah Prince

Normal Community High School (2002)
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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by DongDonger » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:03 pm

Dominator wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:Also, where's Dayo?
Banned obv.
For better or for worse? Hmmm...
Eric Ordonez
IMSA '12

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Re: Pre-Nationals Poll

Post by Deviant Insider » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Auburn, Stevenson, and Ignatius all made the top bracket at NSC. Congrats!
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