Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

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Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Congratulations to State College Area High School, the first place team in our pre-nationals poll. State College received all 23 of our first place ballots. Maggie Walker finished 2nd, receiving 22 second place votes, with Dorman finishing 3rd with the other second place vote. Southside and St. Anselm's round out the top 5. In all, 48 teams received at least one vote.

Thanks to our 23 voters: Graham Moyer, Zhao Wang, Christopher Greenwood, George Berry, Edward Powers, Jasper Lee, Matt Jackson, Nitin Srinivasan, Stephen Liu, Andrew Chrzanowski, Watson Ladd, Isaac Hirsch, William Horton, Amit Bilgi, Jarret Greene, Chris Chiego, Matt Bollinger, Nick Neuteufel, Scott Blain, J.R. Barry, Tanay Kothari, Trey Taralia and Phil Blessman.

1. State College, 575 points, 23 first place votes
2. Maggie Walker, 551 points
3. Dorman, 484
4. Southside, 477
5. St. Anselm's, 471
6. LASA, 463
7. Georgetown Day, 461
8. Detroit Country Day, 425
9. Hunter, 406
10. Dunbar, 344
11. Charter School of Wilmington, 307
12. Thomas Jefferson, 272
13. Hoover, 264
14. Torrey Pines, 250
15. Eden Prairie, 238
16. Mission San Jose, 196
17. Raleigh Charter, 188
18. DuPont Manual, 172
19. Detroit Catholic Central, 112
20. Auburn, 109
21. Solon, 99
22. Kellenberg, 90
23. Alpharetta, 84
24. Centennial (Georgia), 63
25. Bellarmine, 48

Also receiving votes (points listed): Hume Fogg, 46; Bergen County, 35; Adlai Stevenson, 33; Caesar Rodney, 31; St. Joseph, 29; La Jolla, 23; Chattahoochee, 22; Northmont, 18; Walter Johnson, 17; St. Thomas, 9; Walt Whitman, 9; Brookwood, 8; Richard Montgomery, 8; Seven Lakes, 8; Parkersburg, 7; Ezell-Harding, 5; Southside B, 5; Dorman B, 4; Horace Greeley, 4; Ransom Everglades, 2; Parkview, 1; Montgomery Blair, 1; Novi, 1
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Tadaaaaaaaaa
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

I will be posting individual ballots sometime. For now, enjoy this Excel sheet which displays the number of points assigned by each voter.

Edit 5/26: I've attached the updated results to this post.
Edit 5/26 the second: I made a typo with Matt Jackson's ballot, which has since been corrected. This did not change the order of finish; it only altered a couple of teams' final point total.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Ha, only 7 people put us on their ballots... two of them as 15th and 17th! And 16 people decided to ignore CR altogether. It's actually pretty miraculous that we ended up like 29th at all. Crazy.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by kayli »

Welp, looks like it's time for Pensacola to make a dark horse run.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Unicolored Jay »

Wow, we didn't change in position from the last poll. Interesting.

Edit: There's a pretty wide range of rankings of us, from 12th! to 24th. And we were left off of five polls. That's fine, we haven't been too spectacular in anything other than consistently placing high at events in Ohio and we're not that well known.
Last edited by Unicolored Jay on Wed May 26, 2010 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Man there is some really bizarre voting here... Horace Greeley at 21st, Centennial at 8th, Mission San Jose and Raleigh Charter and DuPont Manual and Wilmington Charter left off the entire list, all of this by just one voter! It's very fun to read through these individual things...
Last edited by Down and out in Quintana Roo on Wed May 26, 2010 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by kayli »

Also, congrats to State College for being number one on literally everyone's poll!
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Angry Babies in Love »

I'd like to shake hands with this Christopher character. One of the only two people to vote for us. (Thanks, Isaac, btw)
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Tanay »

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Man there is some really bizarre voting here... Horace Greeley at 21st, Centennial at 8th, Mission San Jose and Raleigh Charter and DuPont Manual and Wilmington Charter left off the entire list, all of this by just one voter! It's very fun to read through these individual things...
I left MSJ off the list entirely, but the others don't apply to me. MSJ isn't bringing their actual A team to this tournament. Their B team is going as MSJ A.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by kayli »

NoWayItsTanay wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Man there is some really bizarre voting here... Horace Greeley at 21st, Centennial at 8th, Mission San Jose and Raleigh Charter and DuPont Manual and Wilmington Charter left off the entire list, all of this by just one voter! It's very fun to read through these individual things...
I left MSJ off the list entirely, but the others don't apply to me. MSJ isn't bringing their actual A team to this tournament. Their B team is going as MSJ A.
I believe it isn't even their normal B team.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

Cool stuff. Obviously this is a poll that generally means nothing(Last year, Ottawa Hills got less votes after they beat teams like Rancho Bernardo, Dunbar, Eden Prarie, Dorman B and Torrey Pines at HSNCT, in addition to winning the small school title, than they did before nationals), but it's good for discussion.

Congrats to State College! As well as to all the other schools who got votes. Must be pretty cool.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Carambola! »

Nationals experience? Nope.
Normal B team? Nope.
Talented underclassmen? Very.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Tanay »

laserphaser wrote:Nationals experience? Nope.
Normal B team? Nope.
Talented underclassmen? Very.
Agreed. You guys are still very, very good, and a threat at nationals this year and even more so the next.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by SoLegit12 »

It probably seems like it won't affect the standings much, but you used my mistake ballot (accidentally leaving TJ off by copy and paste error) instead of my revised one
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

NoWayItsTanay wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Man there is some really bizarre voting here... Horace Greeley at 21st, Centennial at 8th, Mission San Jose and Raleigh Charter and DuPont Manual and Wilmington Charter left off the entire list, all of this by just one voter! It's very fun to read through these individual things...
I left MSJ off the list entirely, but the others don't apply to me. MSJ isn't bringing their actual A team to this tournament. Their B team is going as MSJ A.
Maybe I was confused, but I thought this was just a general poll, not a ranking for HSNCT.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:
NoWayItsTanay wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Man there is some really bizarre voting here... Horace Greeley at 21st, Centennial at 8th, Mission San Jose and Raleigh Charter and DuPont Manual and Wilmington Charter left off the entire list, all of this by just one voter! It's very fun to read through these individual things...
I left MSJ off the list entirely, but the others don't apply to me. MSJ isn't bringing their actual A team to this tournament. Their B team is going as MSJ A.
Maybe I was confused, but I thought this was just a general poll, not a ranking for HSNCT.
Yeah, it's not, as has been stated many times, this was supposed to rank all the teams at their very best, i.e. the absolute best 4 players from a school playing their absolute best at any given time, regardless of attendance at either Nationals.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Ha, only 7 people put us on their ballots... two of them as 15th and 17th! And 16 people decided to ignore CR altogether. It's actually pretty miraculous that we ended up like 29th at all. Crazy.
Well I guess one could ask you why you "ignored" Alpharetta in your ballot but put Centennial at #20. Don't worry, I gave CR a fair look.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by wexs883198215 »

Hm... I suppose this is the price we pay for not showing up to stuff in the last two months :sad:
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

AlphaQuizBowler wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Ha, only 7 people put us on their ballots... two of them as 15th and 17th! And 16 people decided to ignore CR altogether. It's actually pretty miraculous that we ended up like 29th at all. Crazy.
Well I guess one could ask you why you "ignored" Alpharetta in your ballot but put Centennial at #20. Don't worry, I gave CR a fair look.
Because i think Centennial is better? They seem to have had the knack for winning big matches. That, and i like "teams" over "one man teams" in most cases.

I wasn't remarking "hey, we're CR and we're awesome, and you're stupid if you didn't rank us," my point what that a few people ranked us in the top 20, but 16 people didn't rank us at all. It's just a bizarre statistic.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

SoLegit12 wrote:It probably seems like it won't affect the standings much, but you used my mistake ballot (accidentally leaving TJ off by copy and paste error) instead of my revised one
Aw man, I thought I caught that. Okay, I'll have to adjust this.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

The Granny wrote:
SoLegit12 wrote:It probably seems like it won't affect the standings much, but you used my mistake ballot (accidentally leaving TJ off by copy and paste error) instead of my revised one
Aw man, I thought I caught that. Okay, I'll have to adjust this.
Okay, I fixed this. The only thing it really did to the results was move TJ up to 12th, bumping Hoover down one spot to 13th. Every other team was in the same spot.

Sorry for doing that to you, Scott and poll people.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Kanye West »

The sums on the spreadsheet and your original post are one-off each other, Fred, from Manual down to Alpharetta. Not a big deal, though.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Kanye West wrote:The sums on the spreadsheet and your original post are one-off each other, Fred, from Manual down to Alpharetta. Not a big deal, though.
Because of the adjustment of Nick's ballot, as he mentioned. He accidentally left TJ off; he later emailed me (before the deadline!) that TJ should be 13th, and everyone else bumped down one, causing those teams to lose a point. That's the cause for the discrepancy. I will upload the new, corrected sheet later.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Okay, now is later, I guess. I've attached the updated sheet to that post up thread.

http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 22#p187222
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by jonpin »

I've made a head-to-head/Condercet chart, which is attached below. I only ranked those teams on half or more of the ballots, which coincidentally was precisely the top 23 teams (nice coincidence with the 23 ballots). The numbers represent how many voters ranked the team at left better than the team above (for instance 10 teams ranked Southside above St. Anselm's). There are some amusing non-transitive results (Anselm beats Southside 13-10, Southside beats LASA 13-10, LASA beats Anselm 13-10).

Fine print: When neither team appeared on a particular ballot, neither team got credit. As a result, a few head-to-head matchups have no result, as a team only got a head-to-head win if they were ranked better on a majority of the ballots. Also, while making the chart, I discovered that Matt Jackson's ballot has 5's assigned for both DCC and Solon, with no one getting a 1. Which is supposed to be the 5 and which the 1?
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Captain Sinico »

To increase your effective data, I'd suggest handling any team that appears on some ballots but not others by adding a "phantom rank" equivalent to 26th for a team on all ballots on which it doesn't appear. This is justified by the fact that the ballot reflects the voter's preferences being that to first order: all non-ranked teams are thus ranked worse than all ranked teams, which is exact, and of equal rank, which is an approximation we can make without loss of generality (c.f. below.) In the case of two teams neither of which appear on a given ballot, you obviously ignore that ballot or, equivalently, use a modified Condorcet method that allows for ties by discarding them.

M
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Adventure Temple Trail »

jonpin wrote: Fine print: When neither team appeared on a particular ballot, neither team got credit. As a result, a few head-to-head matchups have no result, as a team only got a head-to-head win if they were ranked better on a majority of the ballots. Also, while making the chart, I discovered that Matt Jackson's ballot has 5's assigned for both DCC and Solon, with no one getting a 1. Which is supposed to be the 5 and which the 1?
I listed DCC at 21 and Solon at 25, giving DCC 5 points and Solon 1. The error is not of my making.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by jonpin »

Captain Sinico wrote:To increase your effective data, I'd suggest handling any team that appears on some ballots but not others by adding a "phantom rank" equivalent to 26th for a team on all ballots on which it doesn't appear. This is justified by the fact that the ballot reflects the voter's preferences being that to first order: all non-ranked teams are thus ranked worse than all ranked teams, which is exact, and of equal rank, which is an approximation we can make without loss of generality (c.f. below.) In the case of two teams neither of which appear on a given ballot, you obviously ignore that ballot or, equivalently, use a modified Condorcet method that allows for ties by discarding them.

M
Indeed that it what I did for the teams that are listed; any ranked team is preferred over an unranked team. I cut it off after this block, because teams that are on fewer than half of the ballots are guaranteed not to beat anyone on more than half of the ballots. To explain the other part of the fine print by example, Auburn was preferred to Solon on 11 ballots, the opposite was true on 10 ballots, with 2 ballots ranking neither. It's not certain which of the two teams is preferred by a majority of the voters, so neither team is given a W or an L.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Charley Pride »

The thing about polls is that they're completely opinion-based and not at all evidence of anything...Arguing about them is pointless and silly. It's okay to be offended or annoyed if you feel slighted, but show that anger in a match. Quibbling about it here will just make you look dumb if you're really not as good as you thought.

Can't wait for nationals, though...
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

I made a typo with Matt Jackson's ballot, which has since been corrected. This did not change anything but a couple of teams' points, which were very minor differences.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Kanye West »

Watson Ladd. 12th? You're our hero and all, but really? 12th?!? That's just redonkulous.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad »

While congratulations should be extended to any and all schools who receive rankings and kudos, perhaps the imperfection of polls should also be recalled. How can anyone forget these howlers: "Dewey beats Truman" or better, "Gore take Florida;beats Bush". However, taking "the long view" -- which is to say the strategic view -- may I simply cite Proverbs 16:19 "Melius est humiliari cum mitibus quam dividere spolia cum superbis." 'Nuf said!
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Kwang the Ninja »

Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad wrote:While congratulations should be extended to any and all schools who receive rankings and kudos, perhaps the imperfection of polls should also be recalled. How can anyone forget these howlers: "Dewey beats Truman" or better, "Gore take Florida;beats Bush". However, taking "the long view" -- which is to say the strategic view -- may I simply cite Proverbs 16:19 "Melius est humiliari cum mitibus quam dividere spolia cum superbis." 'Nuf said!
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

No, it's the coach from this school: http://www.naqt.com/stats/school.jsp?org_id=1137
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Whiter Hydra »

By the way, will the results be posted on the front page?
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots »

Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad wrote:While congratulations should be extended to any and all schools who receive rankings and kudos, perhaps the imperfection of polls should also be recalled. How can anyone forget these howlers: "Dewey beats Truman" or better, "Gore take Florida;beats Bush". However, taking "the long view" -- which is to say the strategic view -- may I simply cite Proverbs 16:19 "Melius est humiliari cum mitibus quam dividere spolia cum superbis." 'Nuf said!
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by etchdulac »

I'll see you tomorrow, Father Gregory. Delighted that you'll be joining us at HSNCT, and not visiting NAC.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Joseph Heller »

I appreciate the love for Parkview. Or lack thereof.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

Joseph Heller wrote:I appreciate the love for Parkview. Or lack thereof.
Prove us wrong?

There are a lot of teams out there, and a lot of good ones, and only 25 spots to vote on. I'm fine with South Range not getting any votes, we probably didn't deserve any.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Joseph Heller »

Inkana7 wrote:
Joseph Heller wrote:I appreciate the love for Parkview. Or lack thereof.
Prove us wrong?

There are a lot of teams out there, and a lot of good ones, and only 25 spots to vote on. I'm fine with South Range not getting any votes, we probably didn't deserve any.
I was jk. Three-fourths of the A team graduated. I'm surprised we got any votes.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Are we going to have a post-nationals poll?
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by AKKOLADE »

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Are we going to have a post-nationals poll?
CHRZ demands polls all the time, every day, all day.
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

The Granny wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Are we going to have a post-nationals poll?
CHRZ demands polls all the time, every day, all day.
Additionally, I demand a poll to determine the best poll of the year. Make it so.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by Whiter Hydra »

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
The Granny wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:Are we going to have a post-nationals poll?
CHRZ demands polls all the time, every day, all day.
Additionally, I demand a poll to determine the best poll of the year. Make it so.
Can we vote that poll best poll of the year?
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Re: Congratulations to State College - #1 Pre-Nats!

Post by jdeliverer »

The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:Can we vote that poll best poll of the year?
Poll: Can we vote that poll best poll of the year?

a) Yes
b) No

Email ballots to me at [email protected]
Robert Volgman
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Latin School of Chicago '10
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