Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

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Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Ringil » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:51 pm

This is a preliminary announcement for a Harry Potter only side event. It will be written by Saul Hankin from Michigan and feature 7 seven rounds of 21/20. The distribution will be:

Characters: 5/5
Places & Venues: 5/5
Things: 5/5
Other canonical books by Rowling: 2/2
Miscellaneous: 3/3
Tiebreaker (various categories): 1 tossup

We would like this to be run sometime in January or after as a side event for a larger tournament. If you have the power to grant this, please contact me either by pming here or at zengl@umich.edu. I have been told it is currently around 50-60% completion. I have also explicitly been told there will be no material from the movies :grin: .

Thanks
Last edited by Ringil on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by The Schopenhauer Power Hour » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:59 pm

This is undoubtedly the single greatest and most exciting thing that has happened to me ever and I will do everything within my power (some Faustian stuff if need be) to ensure that this tournament will be near or in Maryland.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:05 pm

NIU almost certainly wants to mirror this after Huskie Bowl on Jan 30th.

Edit: We've already got interest from three really die-hard fans, so I'm going to request powers and, if it's <i>that</i> sort of set, super powers.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:37 pm

this is the way the world ends:
this is the way the world ends:
this is the way the world ends:
not with a bang, but with a [harry potter tournament]
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:01 am

Will misc. include movie-related things and fandom things like wizard rock and fansites?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:30 am

Dan-Don wrote:Will misc. include movie-related things and fandom things like wizard rock and fansites?
Ringil wrote:I have also explicitly been told there will be no material from the movies.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Ringil » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:07 pm

styxman wrote:NIU almost certainly wants to mirror this after Huskie Bowl on Jan 30th.

Edit: We've already got interest from three really die-hard fans, so I'm going to request powers and, if it's <i>that</i> sort of set, super powers.
There are powers :)
Dan-Don wrote:Will misc. include movie-related things and fandom things like wizard rock and fansites?
There will be no fandom stuff. Only canon books will be in this tournament.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:58 pm

Christ, really.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:03 pm

Seriously, c'mon guys, wouldn't want to play quiz bowl on a nerdy subject.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:02 pm

Ronnie the Bear wrote:Seriously, c'mon guys, wouldn't want to play quiz bowl on a nerdy subject.
Exactly!

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a SNES Final Fantasy games theme packet to finish.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:14 pm

brb writing 20/20 on 1993 WCW
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:46 pm

Maybe I could write a Pokemon themed set.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:57 pm

Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Maybe I could write a Pokemon themed set.
Now here's a dude with the right idea.

(note: I am serious)
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by jdd2007 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:28 am

Jasper, as your club prez and teammate, I implore you to do no such thing. Instead, go read some Andean mythology or something. In regards to the Harry Potter tournament, members of my team are already talking about teaming up with the Quidditch club to run this as some sort of intramural fundraiser with proceeds going toward real quizbowl. I'll keep this thread updated if that effort goes anywhere.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:51 am

Jasper, as a man who will give you upwards of twenty dollars, I implore you to do exactly such a thing.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:27 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Maybe I could write a Pokemon themed set.
Now here's a dude with the right idea.

(note: I am serious)
Yes.

Back to the Potter set:
Ringil wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:Will misc. include movie-related things and fandom things like wizard rock and fansites?
There will be no fandom stuff. Only canon books will be in this tournament.
Does that include Quidditch Through the Ages et al?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by The Schopenhauer Power Hour » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:32 pm

List of wrestling-based comic books wrote: Does that include Quidditch Through the Ages et al?
It must, since there's 2/2 non-main series canon. 14/14 on QTTA, Fantastic Beasts, and Beedle the Bard will be fun.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Ringil » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:41 pm

The Schopenhauer Power Hour wrote:
List of wrestling-based comic books wrote: Does that include Quidditch Through the Ages et al?
It must, since there's 2/2 non-main series canon. 14/14 on QTTA, Fantastic Beasts, and Beedle the Bard will be fun.
Yes, this is entirely correct.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:44 pm

The Schopenhauer Power Hour wrote:
List of wrestling-based comic books wrote: Does that include Quidditch Through the Ages et al?
It must, since there's 2/2 non-main series canon. 14/14 on QTTA, Fantastic Beasts, and Beedle the Bard will be fun.
Darn, should've looked at the distribution more carefully.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auroni » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:08 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
Judy Sucks a Lemon for Breakfast wrote:Maybe I could write a Pokemon themed set.
Now here's a dude with the right idea.

(note: I am serious)
Do this; I need to have that long-awaited showdown against Rob on the finals packet
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Edward Elric » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:21 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:Jasper, as a man who will give you upwards of twenty dollars, I implore you to do exactly such a thing.
DO IT!
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:32 am

I'll be very interested to see if Saul actually writes 147 non-first line-able tossups and 140 not-free-30s bonuses using only clues canonical clues. Previous attempts at Harry Potter sets (I think from TTGT11) also limited themselves to canon and are pretty bad. I'd like to point out that the traditional definition of HP canon in the fandom includes anything spoken or written by Jo (particularly jkrowling.com and her official twitter) that doesn't contradict information given in the books. So, speaking as a quizbowler, I would strongly encourage including such information for the sake of a good set.

I understand not including movies, but clues derived from relevant commentary from people with respected opinions in the fandom (podcasters, webmasters, noted fanfic writers, some wizard rockers) or people involved in the production of the novels such as Arthur Levine or Cheryl Klein, as well as things that, while not canon, involved Jo directly in their production, such as famous wizard cards in the video games or props from the theme park. So, speaking as a fan, this stuff would make me happy but may not be necessary for the completion of a decent seven-packet set.

Good sources for all these things would be the Lexicon and Accio Quote, as well as the documentaries We Are Wizards and The Wizard Wrockumentary.

Superpowers are also good.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:44 am

Dan-Don wrote:Jo
Dan-Don wrote:people with respected opinions in the fandom (podcasters, webmasters, noted fanfic writers, some wizard rockers)
this tournament can't happen soon enough!
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:04 pm

Dan-Don wrote:clues derived from relevant commentary from people with respected opinions in the fandom (podcasters, webmasters, noted fanfic writers, some wizard rockers) or people involved in the production of the novels such as Arthur Levine or Cheryl Klein
when worlds collide!
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Dan-Don » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:38 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
Dan-Don wrote:clues derived from relevant commentary from people with respected opinions in the fandom (podcasters, webmasters, noted fanfic writers, some wizard rockers) or people involved in the production of the novels such as Arthur Levine or Cheryl Klein
when worlds collide!
Now if only Brown can recruit Emma Watson. Get on that, guys.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Ringil » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:59 pm

Dan-Don wrote:I'll be very interested to see if Saul actually writes 147 non-first line-able tossups and 140 not-free-30s bonuses using only clues canonical clues. Previous attempts at Harry Potter sets (I think from TTGT11) also limited themselves to canon and are pretty bad.
Saul assures me his tournament will be much better than the previous Harry Potter sets.
Dan-Don wrote: I'd like to point out that the traditional definition of HP canon in the fandom includes anything spoken or written by Jo (particularly jkrowling.com and her official twitter) that doesn't contradict information given in the books. So, speaking as a quizbowler, I would strongly encourage including such information for the sake of a good set.

I understand not including movies, but clues derived from relevant commentary from people with respected opinions in the fandom (podcasters, webmasters, noted fanfic writers, some wizard rockers) or people involved in the production of the novels such as Arthur Levine or Cheryl Klein, as well as things that, while not canon, involved Jo directly in their production, such as famous wizard cards in the video games or props from the theme park. So, speaking as a fan, this stuff would make me happy but may not be necessary for the completion of a decent seven-packet set.
I think Saul takes a more conservative view on the canon. Also, some of the things you said could be very subjective. For example, its hard to say exactly what fanfic authors are the most famous etc
Dan-Don wrote: Good sources for all these things would be the Lexicon and Accio Quote, as well as the documentaries We Are Wizards and The Wizard Wrockumentary.

Superpowers are also good.
Saul is using the Lexicon a lot. I'm not sure about the other things, and I don't think there will be superpower, but I'll edit this post later tonight after I ask him.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by itsthatoneguy » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:53 pm

Dan-Don wrote: Now if only Brown can recruit Emma Watson. Get on that, guys.
Seriously.

Also, Libo and I will ask Saul to produce some sample questions to help people get an idea of what this set will be like (no guarantees though).
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:56 pm

This thread makes me want to quit quizbowl.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Habitat_Against_Humanity » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:17 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:This thread makes me want to quit quizbowl.
QFT.

Also, here's an idea for a theme tournament: It'll be on everything that's not Harry Potter and Pokemon and it'll be called "ACF Winter." How's that sound?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by BobGHHS » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:23 pm

brb writing 20/20 on 1993 WCW
Fred, I would tear this hypothetical packet a new one.
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:43 pm

Habitat_Against_Humanity wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:This thread makes me want to quit quizbowl.
QFT.

Also, here's an idea for a theme tournament: It'll be on everything that's not Harry Potter and Pokemon and it'll be called "ACF Winter." How's that sound?
put your money where your mouth is, man!
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBH)

Post by Ringil » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:35 pm

Here's a message directly from Saul regarding some of the issues mentioned thus far.
To whom it may concern,

Libo Zeng is correct in saying that I take a “conservative” view of what is Harry Potter “canon.” I made the decision to limit the source material to the original writings of J.K. Rowling for these reasons:

1) I excluded the movies because I hate them and because I believe that their gross deviations from the books make them inappropriate as clue material.

2) I planned to exclude fan fiction, Rowling interviews, and the like simply because there is so much of that sort of thing out there that I see preparation for clues based on it as difficult, to say the least.

In short, I restricted the tournament to Rowling’s writings so that the tournament would be based on things that (a) are of good quality and (b) can more easily and effectively be perused for any preparation that potential participants would like to do.

I realize that Harry Potter is inherently an easy topic, and that nearly all the tossups will be powered and bonuses 30’d. My intent was that so many players capable of performing so well in this tournament would keep it competitive. In other words, it wouldn’t be a question of powering the tossups, but a question of who would first.

I have looked at past Harry Potter packets, such as the one from TTGT11 mentioned by Dan Donohue. I really did try to write questions that constitute a step up.

However, as Libo has mentioned, the tournament is not yet finished. This, then, is my proposal: once I finish the tournament, I will request the editing input of anyone interested. From the University of Michigan I have Libo Zeng himself and Leigh Stutler in mind if they are willing, but I would gladly welcome others. If the editors and general public believe that the inclusion of fan fiction, Rowling interviews, and so forth would improve the questions, then I will incorporate it. However, I don’t think it will bother anyone (except for perhaps Emma Watson) that I refuse to compromise regarding the films.

In order to make life easier for Libo so he doesn’t have to keep serving as an intermediary between me and questions on this forum, questions directed at me specifically can be sent to saul(dot)hankin(at)comcast(dot)net

Best,

Saul Hankin
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:38 pm

Disclaimer: I don't have time to write a Pokemon-themed set. Wait until when I get a break.

Back to topic...

Regarding Saul's thoughts on the set, is it really a good idea to allow high numbers of buzzer races?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by DumbJaques » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:14 am

Regarding Saul's thoughts on the set, is it really a good idea to allow high numbers of buzzer races?
Is it really a good idea to engage in even more discussion* about slightly shifting the buzz distributions for a Harry Potter side event?

*With someone who isn't even here!
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:42 pm

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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Ringil » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:55 pm

This set is now only 5 packets long, due to Saul not finding enough things to write about ;(
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Ringil » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:55 pm

So this set is finished.

Also, here's Saul's last "manifesto"
To Whom It May Concern:

The completed Harry Potter event is now in the possession of Libo Zeng, so if you’re interested in getting ahold of it he’s the guy to talk to.

A few notes about how it turned out:

1) Over Christmas break I concluded that there really wasn’t as much subject matter to write about as I had thought, and so the event has been reduced from seven to five packets.

2) In a similar vein, the packet distribution was changed according to how much there was to write about each category. Here is the new distribution:

6/6 people
3/3 FB/QA/BB
5/6 things
4/2 places
2/3 miscellaneous
1/0 tie-breaker tossup
1/0 extra tossup
22/20 total

3) What Libo now has for distribution is a finished first draft, but unfortunately it has not yet gone through any sort of editing process because my editing team is spending this week working on grad school applications. I apologize in advance, therefore, for problems with the questions that I missed and that my editors would have caught.

4) I decided that I will be making use of the event as part of this year’s University of Michigan intramural quizbowl tournament. Thus, I will be working with my editors at Michigan to prepare the event for use here, but will be taking no part in any editing that any of you wish to do for your own use of the event. You procure it, you edit it. Add in your fan fiction if you wish. Take out the questions on Beedle the Bard. Whatever.

As always, questions or tirades directed at me specifically can be sent to saul(dot)hankin(at)comcast(dot)net

Best,

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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:38 pm

Ringil wrote:4) I decided that I will be making use of the event as part of this year’s University of Michigan intramural quizbowl tournament. Thus, I will be working with my editors at Michigan to prepare the event for use here, but will be taking no part in any editing that any of you wish to do for your own use of the event. You procure it, you edit it. Add in your fan fiction if you wish. Take out the questions on Beedle the Bard. Whatever.

As always, questions or tirades directed at me specifically can be sent to saul(dot)hankin(at)comcast(dot)net

Best,

-Saul Hankin
When is this UoM tourney?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:47 pm

styxman wrote:
Ringil wrote:4) I decided that I will be making use of the event as part of this year’s University of Michigan intramural quizbowl tournament. Thus, I will be working with my editors at Michigan to prepare the event for use here, but will be taking no part in any editing that any of you wish to do for your own use of the event. You procure it, you edit it. Add in your fan fiction if you wish. Take out the questions on Beedle the Bard. Whatever.

As always, questions or tirades directed at me specifically can be sent to saul(dot)hankin(at)comcast(dot)net

Best,

-Saul Hankin
When is this UoM tourney?
yeah, when is this, can i crash it?
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Ringil » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:07 am

It may happen after Michigan's TIT depending on interest.
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09

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Irreligion in Bangladesh
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:18 pm

Ringil wrote:It may happen after Michigan's TIT depending on interest.
Given that that's Jan 22 and my mirror of this would be the next weekend, would it be possible to get any edits from that potential playthrough in my version?
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series

Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
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Ringil
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by Ringil » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:45 pm

styxman wrote:
Ringil wrote:It may happen after Michigan's TIT depending on interest.
Given that that's Jan 22 and my mirror of this would be the next weekend, would it be possible to get any edits from that potential playthrough in my version?
Yes
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09

The Schopenhauer Power Hour
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Re: Harry Potter Tournament (Name/Date TBA)

Post by The Schopenhauer Power Hour » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:33 pm

So, the University of Maryland Quidditch team played this set a couple weeks ago (on buzzers graciously lent to us by MAQT,) and I thought I'd post a few general comments.

Overall, this set was a blast to play, and I'll insert the usual caveat that the only reason the rest of this post will be more criticism than praise is because the former can be elaborated on in more detail.

In terms of general quizbowl practice, there was at least one (I think only one) instance of a bonus clue referring to a character as "the only one of [this group] that hasn't been asked about yet," which I don't think is great because ideally I think each question should be playable in a vacuum. Also, the fact that the canon is so (relatively) small meant that there were multiple instances of players (usually, the couple of us with quizbowl savvy) buzzing in to first line a tossup based on, "Hm, well it could be W, X, Y, or Z, but they've mentioned all of those except X, so..." This could have been avoided simply by omitting the three tossups on W, Y, and Z, or even just one of those and not asking about the fourth, to at least make the tossup slightly less fraudable.

Tossup choices were usually well-picked, with a couple instances of answers in which the thought process seemed to have been cut short-- that is, answers that I certainly would have agreed are neat in theory, but that upon execution resolved themselves into poorly-written tossups. I commend this set also for sticking to its prescribed distribution in the face of not all that much material in the three supplemental books; however, this also resulted in sometimes absurdly variable bonus difficulty. I think it's not too much of a stretch to say that many HP fans who've read the main series enough times to thirty one of the main series bonuses in their sleep would have much more difficulty with bonuses on Quidditch Through the Ages or Fantastic Beasts. This means that a hard part from a bonus from one of those books that's the same degree of difficulty with respect to the easy part as that of a bonus from the main series would be much more difficult for players to get.

Also, to confirm some of the discussion that I believe went on earlier in this thread, most of the tossups did indeed go on the first line, though that's much more of a reflection on the participants than the general easiness of the clues (again, there are only so many clues to draw from in this canon.)

I think that's it, so I'll finish up here, and you may all commence ridicule about my having written a treatise on a Harry Potter tournament.
Logan Anbinder
University of Maryland '12

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