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ACF Regionals at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:01 pm
by TulaneKQB
Tulane University Quiz Bowl is happy to announce plans to host a mirror of the Illinois Open on March 19 (3/19)!

Location: Tulane University (New Orleans), Boggs Hall

Questions: Illinois Open Mirror

Field (will be updated as necessary): open to anyone who can make it to New Orleans. There will probably be discounts for high schools, new teams, etc. Interested teams include:

FSU (2 teams)
Case Western
Alabama
Rice
Texas A&M
UTC

Pricing: $120 Base Fee
-$10 per working buzzer set
-$10 per competent worker
-$5 per 250 miles traveled

Contact: Ryan McLaren, jrynmac@gmail.com

Thanks, and we hope to see you in New Orleans in the Spring!

Re: Tulane University Spring Tournament (3/19 or 3/26)

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:10 pm
by crobbins52
Depending on the questions used, Harding might be interested in a tournament on the 19th.

Re: Tulane University Spring Tournament (3/19 or 3/26)

Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:49 am
by Karlheinz Stockhausen
FSU is interested as well.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:01 pm
by TulaneKQB
Just to clarify: we have settled on 3/19 and will probably be using IO questions. Contact Ryan McLaren (jmclaren@tulane.edu) or leave a reply if you're interested.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:50 pm
by swwFCqb
We just booked our tickets down to New Orleans. We'll be there with 1 team.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:05 pm
by crobbins52
As much as I'd like to play IO, you should assume Harding won't be at this. I was hoping to get our truck over Spring Break and drive down early, but that plan fell through. Sorry.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:28 pm
by Kcinno
Don't think TAMU is able to make it. Bad timing overall for a bunch of us.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:39 am
by Auroni
I would urge you not to use the Illinois Open set for this particular tournament.

Having just played an Illinois Open mirror in which the top team did not break 16 points per bonus and many teams struggled to even pull the easy parts on around half of the bonuses, let alone get 20s or 30s, I am incredibly confident in saying that this set will do nothing but discourage its attendees. If you are curious, once they go up, I can corroborate my claim by posting to the standings from our site Fortunately, this date is the day that the Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament will be run in other parts of the country; I strongly feel that MUT is a better fit for your field. You can look at past examples of MUT on the archives at collegiate.quizbowlpackets.com , and I have every reason to believe that this year's MUT will strongly resemble past incarnations in difficulty. If you are interested in hosting a slightly more difficult tournament, consider a mirror of ACF Regionals, which to my knowledge hasn't been played by any of the teams attending this site. But please, for the love of God, do not attempt to run Illinois Open with this field. You will be making a colossal mistake if you do.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:28 am
by The Ununtiable Twine
every time i refresh i have a new name wrote:I would urge you not to use the Illinois Open set for this particular tournament.

Having just played an Illinois Open mirror in which the top team did not break 16 points per bonus and many teams struggled to even pull the easy parts on around half of the bonuses, let alone get 20s or 30s, I am incredibly confident in saying that this set will do nothing but discourage its attendees. If you are curious, once they go up, I can corroborate my claim by posting to the standings from our site. Fortunately, this date is the day that the Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament will be run in other parts of the country; I strongly feel that MUT is a better fit for your field. You can look at past examples of MUT on the archives at collegiate.quizbowlpackets.com , and I have every reason to believe that this year's MUT will strongly resemble past incarnations in difficulty. If you are interested in hosting a slightly more difficult tournament, consider a mirror of ACF Regionals, which to my knowledge hasn't been played by any of the teams attending this site. But please, for the love of God, do not attempt to run Illinois Open with this field. You will be making a colossal mistake if you do.
I mean weren't we supposed to write a packet for Regionals? Would the editors consider running a mirror of ACF Regionals this late without packet submissions?

These questions were intended to be tough, I know. Were they THAT tough, Auroni? Like how much tougher than ACF Nationals are you talking, just curious. I know Seth's team only managed to get barely over 19ppb over at UIUC, but you don't think it can be enjoyable, even? I'm looking forward to hearing a challenging set. Everyone that's going to this tournament knows that the questions are uber-tough.

I don't think a question set would discourage anyone, really. I personally don't see a problem with it, but if it's that tough, I definitely see where you're coming from. If the set is changed for some reason though I ask that we change to ACF Regionals as we were going to use MUT weekend at NGCSU for our D2 team to warm up and maybe for an exhibition appearance by myself and another teammate just as a pre-ICT fun activity. I don't know how many teams would be interested in MUT for this weekend as we had signed up for at least a reasonable challenge in the first place.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:41 am
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
we were going to use MUT weekend at NGCSU for our D2 team to warm up and maybe for an exhibition appearance by myself and another teammate just as a pre-ICT fun activity.
Are you kidding me? You announce you're retired, and then want to sign up for a tournament you're not even eligible for?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:13 am
by The Ununtiable Twine
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:
we were going to use MUT weekend at NGCSU for our D2 team to warm up and maybe for an exhibition appearance by myself and another teammate just as a pre-ICT fun activity.
Are you kidding me? You announce you're retired, and then want to sign up for a tournament you're not even eligible for?
There was a retirement ceremony and all. I bought Hungry Howie's for everyone that came to the ceremony. I even announced the thing on facebook and sent it to like a hundred people. My friends were shocked at this decision, most definitely. They tried to convince me that I shouldn't retire and whatnot, but given the recent decline in my play and my lack of passion in recent tournaments, I decided it was time to hang up the buzzer after Penn Bowl. Hence the retirement.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:35 am
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
But since when does publicly retiring from quizbowl mean you start playing tournaments you aren't eligible for in the first place? What on earth is going through your head?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:48 am
by The Ununtiable Twine
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:But since when does publicly retiring from quizbowl mean you start playing tournaments you aren't eligible for in the first place? What on earth is going through your head?
I would never have any intent of winning such a tournament and taking pride in it. Note I said exhibition if at all. Plus, the NGCSU site is allowing for grad students to enter the tournament. I figured we could have some fun, and I could play as an exhibition team. I would just want to "pretend-enter" the tournament, and NGCSU would make a few more bucks. I like quizbowl. Easy quizbowl, hard quizbowl, playing against people of all talent levels. Or at least I used to.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:49 am
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
I think I'll just go play a local high school tournament then. As long as I call myself an exhibition team then it all makes sense, right?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:53 am
by mhayes
Jake, I have to admit that I am a little worried about this set if Selene Koo et al. could only muster 230 PPG and 13.5 P/B. I've seen past IO sets and I thought they were accessible, but it looks like this year's set is tougher.

Auroni, I think that more than one team going to the Tulane site (including ourselves) is planning to attend a MUT mirror, so I'm not sure how many teams would agree with playing on the MUT set at this site. If the ACF editors are willing to let this field go packet-free, then I agree that an ACF Regionals mirror could be a viable option.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:05 pm
by TulaneKQB
I was originally going to do something like MUT when I was planning this event, but I was under the impression that everyone else wanted the IO set. I'll roll with whatever set the most people want to hear.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:16 pm
by kayli
Penn Bowl might be a good set to run this on instead of IO if you so wish. IO seems really, really difficult.

EDIT: As said upthread, MUT would be a great set also.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:25 pm
by kayli
That being said, I'm pretty sure I'm coming to this tournament, currently solo. I wouldn't mind teaming up with anyone though.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:29 pm
by Auks Ran Ova
We'd be happy to let you run ACF Regionals! I was really hoping there'd be a site in the region and would be willing to work something out.. Email me (acfregs2011@gmail.com) and we can talk more about it.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:34 pm
by kayli
ACF Regionals would be really nice.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:16 pm
by The Ununtiable Twine
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:I think I'll just go play a local high school tournament then. As long as I call myself an exhibition team then it all makes sense, right?
Of course! In that way, you can set a good standard for the local high school circuit to look up to. Imagine all the young Missouri high schoolers saying they want to be like Charlie.

What's wrong with exhibition teams? SQBS has an exhibition team option for a reason. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just wanna practice - and since grad students are being allowed at this site, I don't see what the big deal is. NGCSU is doing their best to host quality events. The least I could do is go check the place out and see what they're all about, as I've never played there before.
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:What on earth is going through your head?
That you have some sort of strange vendetta against me. It's quite comical, actually.
Ar$oni$t$ Get All the Girl$ wrote:ACF Regionals would be really nice.
I concur. This would be a fine set to play and I would be all for it. Retirement or no, I just can't skip tournaments in my home state for any reason whatsoever. That would be inexcusable.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:31 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
DarkMatter wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:I think I'll just go play a local high school tournament then. As long as I call myself an exhibition team then it all makes sense, right?
Of course! In that way, you can set a good standard for the local high school circuit to look up to. Imagine all the young Missouri high schoolers saying they want to be like Charlie.

What's wrong with exhibition teams? SQBS has an exhibition team option for a reason. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just wanna practice - and since grad students are being allowed at this site, I don't see what the big deal is. NGCSU is doing their best to host quality events. The least I could do is go check the place out and see what they're all about, as I've never played there before.
Exhibition teams of graduate students with 6 years of quizbowl experience playing novice tournaments are pretty antithetical to the whole idea of a novice tournament, and looking through the announcement, I would be shocked if you fit the bill as a grad student who would get dispensation from the editors. In any case, I am fully opposed to exhibition teams playing anywhere, because the whole point of eligiblity rules is that if you aren't eligible to play something, you sit it out. I would love to have played regionals this year, but didn't because I'm not eligible. I didn't try to whine my way into getting exhibition team status, because I am intelligent and can understand that the rules clearly mean I can't play no matter what.
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:What on earth is going through your head?
That you have some sort of strange vendetta against me. It's quite comical, actually.
Get over yourself, stop setting yourself up to dramatically proclaim you're a victim with everyone out to get you. To borrow a wiser man's particularly apt description of you, you're the Captain Carnage of quizbowl. Everyone, not just me, everyone is laughing at you.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:44 pm
by The Ununtiable Twine
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Everyone, not just me, everyone is laughing at you.
I'm not concerned.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:09 pm
by grapesmoker
DarkMatter wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Everyone, not just me, everyone is laughing at you.
I'm not concerned.
Don't play tournaments for which you aren't eligible, especially novice tournaments. This isn't that hard.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:19 pm
by Golran
I'm with Charlie on this one; There are more productive ways to contribute to a tournament you're not eligible for than to play it... You've had plenty of chances to play previous versions of this set, and you may or may not have taken advantage of them. If you are definitely going to the tournament, it would probably be best for you to staff; that way if NGCSU has an excess of staff, they can have some of their less experienced undergrads (who the tournament is intended for)play the tournament. Only if the tournament is fully staffed (scorekeepers in every room, and a stats person) should you consider playing, and only then it should be only if your playing will eliminate byes or serve some purpose that helps the field. If for some reason our HS tournaments in the future have an odd number of teams, and no scab team can/will be formed from extra players, and we have sufficient/excess staff, I would have no problem putting our worse moderators/scorekeepers/new players in as an exhibition team, and giving the team that is scheduled to play them the option of playing that round against our exhibition team or just sitting around, or watching another game that tournament.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:38 pm
by Bartleby
Putting aside the fact that you are apparently retired or something, the NGCSU announcement states the following:
Graduate students are not normally permitted to play, but with permission from editors, we will allow graduate students with limited previous Quizbowl experience to play at this mirror only.
How a team wants to run their mirrors of a tournament is for them to hash out with the editor, but as your signature claims that you've played since 2004, there is no way that you fit their grad student eligibility guidelines.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:46 pm
by The Ununtiable Twine
Golran wrote:I'm with Charlie on this one; There are more productive ways to contribute to a tournament you're not eligible for than to play it... You've had plenty of chances to play previous versions of this set, and you may or may not have taken advantage of them. If you are definitely going to the tournament, it would probably be best for you to staff; that way if NGCSU has an excess of staff, they can have some of their less experienced undergrads (who the tournament is intended for)play the tournament. Only if the tournament is fully staffed (scorekeepers in every room, and a stats person) should you consider playing, and only then it should be only if your playing will eliminate byes or serve some purpose that helps the field. If for some reason our HS tournaments in the future have an odd number of teams, and no scab team can/will be formed from extra players, and we have sufficient/excess staff, I would have no problem putting our worse moderators/scorekeepers/new players in as an exhibition team, and giving the team that is scheduled to play them the option of playing that round against our exhibition team or just sitting around, or watching another game that tournament.
You, sir, have a good point. If my playing eliminated byes, then surely I'd be happy to play. Clearly, I've been happy to staff in the past, and I'm more than happy to do so whenever necessary. It would make the tournament run more smoothly, which is always a good thing. It didn't cross my mind, actually.

Yo, guys at NGCSU. If you need me to staff, that's cool. If you need me to play, that's cool too. Just keep me busy. I'm not too hard to find, I'm the guy with the black ring.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:47 pm
by The Ununtiable Twine
Bartleby wrote:Putting aside the fact that you are apparently retired or something, the NGCSU announcement states the following:
Graduate students are not normally permitted to play, but with permission from editors, we will allow graduate students with limited previous Quizbowl experience to play at this mirror only.
How a team wants to run their mirrors of a tournament is for them to hash out with the editor, but as your signature claims that you've played since 2004, there is no way that you fit their grad student eligibility guidelines.
True dat.

Would the moderators mind moving a significant portion of this thread to the NGCSU one? Some of its issues don't apply to IO.

EDIT: changed the last sentence up to make it shorter.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 pm
by No Rules Westbrook
Yeah, this set was hard. About ACF Nats difficulty...pretty fair and well written, but hard.

I'd second (third? fourth?) the opinion that Regionals would be a far more reasonable thing to run at this site.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:40 pm
by Ike
Yeah, let me just make sure I come out and say that during the email correspondences I had with Tulane, I warned them ahead of time that this set may or may not be appropriate for the teams that they are attracting and that you should take that into consideration. If the field is more fit playing regionals (which it kind of looks like,) by all means do regionals.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:13 am
by TulaneKQB
Ike wrote:Yeah, let me just make sure I come out and say that during the email correspondences I had with Tulane, I warned them ahead of time that this set may or may not be appropriate for the teams that they are attracting and that you should take that into consideration. If the field is more fit playing regionals (which it kind of looks like,) by all means do regionals.
Yeah I was under the impression that everyone wanted to play the hard set. However, if everyone changes their minds then that's fine. Again, I'll just go with whatever the most people want to hear.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:21 pm
by swwFCqb
Have you decided what set will ultimately be used for this tournament?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:33 am
by mhayes
Whatever my vote is worth, I say we use ACF Regionals.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:53 am
by kayli
My vote is for Regionals too. Anyway, can I get a discount for playing solo?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:47 pm
by Auks Ran Ova

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:47 pm
by kayli
Well, my county coach just notified me that I cannot come to this tournament because we're pressed for practice time before CAC. So sorry.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:00 pm
by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Ar$oni$t$ Get All the Girl$ wrote:Well, my county coach just notified me that I cannot come to this tournament because we're pressed for practice time before CAC. So sorry.
You care about CAC?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:13 pm
by kayli
I hate the format and questions vehemently, but it gives me money if I win.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:47 pm
by dcf07
I won CAC my senior year and played at PAC. Its a lot of fun and the money I won paid for my drinking habits my whole freshmen year.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:40 pm
by TulaneKQB
It looks like we're doing Regionals.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:38 am
by mhayes
Also, could we get a field update as well?

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:11 pm
by TulaneKQB
mhayes wrote:Also, could we get a field update as well?
Right now it's looking like Case, Bama, UTC, FSU (2 teams), and a Tulane house team.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:44 am
by The Ununtiable Twine
OK so this happened. Alabama won the tournament with Case Western finishing second and I presume FSU A finished third. More results should follow soon, hopefully. Time for bed.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:40 pm
by mhayes
I'd like to thank Tulane for hosting this event. We had a good time and the matches were well run with good readers.

However, there are some things that I'd like to point out, and hopefully you take this into account for your future events. I've listed them in descending order of importance.

1) It was probably not a good idea to have a "rotating" house team, where players take turns playing and staffing between rounds. I understand that people want to actually play instead of staffing all day, but at times, it seemed like there was confusion amongst the Tulane group as to who was staffing and who was playing. This led to some delays in between matches, so it would have been better to have a set house team, preferably of freshmen or inexperienced players.

2) For a few of the matches, I think that some of the readers should have attempted to read *and* score simultaneously. There was an instance where both teams *and* the moderator were present, but we waited 5+ minutes for the scorekeeper to arrive. A match shouldn't be delayed solely because of a missing scorekeeper, unless the moderator is woefully uncomfortable scoring *and* reading.

3) Tournament schedules should have been printed for each team instead of placed on the monitor in the HQ room. This once again led to delays in between matches, with teams being unsure of where their next matches were.

4) Using the auditorium as a match room was not a good idea, because a) the acoustics obfuscated the moderator's voice and b) the the teams were spread too far apart; the moderator's podium was literally 50ft away from the furthest player. It would have been better to use the HQ room as a match room and the auditorium as the HQ room.

As you can see, most of my concerns are issues related to time. The issues in points 1-3 led to many delays. I think our last match ended at around 7:30 pm, which is late for a 10-round tournament that started at 9:45 am.

But once again, things went smoothly once the matches actually started. If you address the issues that led to delays between the matches, you'll be fine.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:49 pm
by The Ununtiable Twine
My sentiments are basically the same as Matt's, except that I'm probably a bit less of a fan of playing matches in rooms with horrible acoustics. I'll post later, gotta go to practice.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:40 pm
by TulaneKQB
mhayes wrote: But once again, things went smoothly once the matches actually started. If you address the issues that led to delays between the matches, you'll be fine.
I think hosting the tournament directly after Mardi Gras/Spring Break may have been the biggest mistake we made because it didn't quite give us as much time to plan as we would have liked. Otherwise I think it would have run much more smoothly.
Thanks for the advice, though! I'll definitely take it into account.

Re: IO Mirror at Tulane University 3/19

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:29 pm
by mhayes
I've uploaded the stats from this event.

https://filer.case.edu/~meh52/ACFRegs11 ... dings.html

Note that team detail is not included. Perhaps the guys at Tulane could provide it if possible.