The Quizbowl Resource Center

Posted: **Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:45 pm**

Here's the announcement for the 2011 incarnation of Penn Bowl, to be held at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. I am tentatively claiming 2/12/11 as the date for the tournament as long as facilities says it's okay. Post here if you foresee any problems with this date while there is still plenty of time to change it.

As usual, this is a packet submission tournament. As of now, Mehdi Razvi, Sid Chandrasekhar, Ming Lin, Dominic Machado and I will be co-editing the set. The target difficulty will be regular difficulty. Try to keep your answers between the levels of ACF Fall and Winter, inclusive. See Penn Bowl 2009, Winter TIT 2009, or ACF Winter 2009 for examples of our target difficulty.

Distribution:
Please note this is slightly different from the usual ACF distribution.
5/5 Literature--1/1 British, 1/1 European 500 CE onwards, 1/1 American, 1/1 World (includes classical), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 History--1/1 US, 1/1 World, 2/2 European, Canadian, Australian (should include 1 classical and no more than 1 Canadian or Australian), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 Science--1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, 1 question Math/CS, 1 question Earth Sci/Astro, 1/1 Your Choice
3/3 Religion, Mythology and Philosophy--1/1 of each; should be different religions, mythologies, and philosophy time periods
3/3 Fine Arts--1/1 non-opera classical music, 1/1 painting, 1/1 other (opera, jazz, architecture, etc.)
2/2 Social science, geography--should include at least 1 question from each category (e.g. 2/1 ss, 0/1 geo or 1/1 ss, 1/1 geo but not 2/2 ss)
1/1 Trash, current events
Total: 24/24

If any clarification needs to be made on any of these, please e-mail me or post in this thread.

Packets and Deadlines:
If anyone on a given team played a collegiate tournament before September 1, 2009, then that entire team is required to submit a packet. High schoolers are exempt from this rule, but can still submit packets for the discounts. All rules regarding packet submission are pretty much consistent with ACF, so see http://acf-quizbowl.com/documents/packe ... p#required for more details. Follow formatting from the ACF website as well at http://www.acf-quizbowl.com/documents/formatting.php. Please e-mail me if you have any questions. The following are applicable deadlines (by midnight PST on the given date i.e. 3am the next day) with all fees added/subtracted from overall registration fees. Packets should be sent to [email protected] (NOT [email protected] as in the past--we have no way of seeing this if you send it here) upon completion.

Packet by December 26: -$50
Packet by January 9: -$25
Packet by January 24: +$0
Packet by January 31: +$25
Packet by February 6: +$50
No packet submission dates were harmed in the changing of the tournament date.

Registration fees and other discounts:
Base fee per team: $120
Functional buzzers: -$10 each
Competent moderators: -$15 each
Travel (per school): -$15 per 200 miles (one-way, determined by Mapquest)

Minimum fee per school (including packet discounts): $40

Any high school teams or teams with fewer than 3 players can e-mail Mehdi to arrange for further discounts. Any checks should be made out to "Mehdi Razvi" if possible. If personal checks are an issue, checks can be made out to "Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania".

Mirrors:
I am seeking mirrors in all regions as long as there wouldn't be significant field overlap with the main site at Penn. The mirror fee will be $40 per non-house team. Mirror hosts can submit packets to lower this fee but are not required to. All interested hosts should e-mail [email protected] (NOT [email protected] as in the past--we have no way of seeing this if you send it here) to submit a bid.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:03 am**

Marshall Steinbaum, in the 2010-2011 College Quizbowl Calendar thread wrote: I'd like to say that we've decided to hold the University of Chicago tournament (now called the Sack of Antwerp) on February 19, 2011. I hope to see you there!

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:11 am**

Glacierguy1 wrote:Packets and Deadlines:
If anyone on a given team played a collegiate tournament before September 1, 2008, then that entire team is required to submit a packet. High schoolers are exempt from this rule, but can still submit packets for the discounts. All rules regarding packet submission are pretty much consistent with ACF, so see [link] required for more details

Pretty consistent, with the exceptions of the new changes to ACF policy about high school teams (and the fact the date after which a team is required to write a packet is September 1, 2009), correct?

Also, I guess this is an appropriate place as any to ask if the rest of the circuit intends to adopt the policy changes regarding high schools.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:17 am**

The collegiate quizbowl calendar seemed to imply this tournament was on January 29th. Given the Sack of Antwerp issue, would it be possible to move it (and the packet-submission dates) back to the originally-proposed date?

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:20 am**

Ben Cole wrote:
Glacierguy1 wrote:Packets and Deadlines:
If anyone on a given team played a collegiate tournament before September 1, 2008, then that entire team is required to submit a packet. High schoolers are exempt from this rule, but can still submit packets for the discounts. All rules regarding packet submission are pretty much consistent with ACF, so see [link] required for more details
Pretty consistent, with the exceptions of the new changes to ACF policy about high school teams (and the fact the date after which a team is required to write a packet is September 1, 2009), correct?

Also, I guess this is an appropriate place as any to ask if the rest of the circuit intends to adopt the policy changes regarding high schools.

2009 is fixed.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:27 am**

Adding to the clamor of voices hoping that this gets moved back to the January 29th date, and noting that

Glacierguy1 wrote: 5/5 Literature--1/1 British, 1/1 European 500 CE onwards, 1/1 American, 1/1 World (includes classical), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 History--1/1 US, 1/1 World, 2/2 European, Canadian, Australian (should include 1 classical and no more than 1 Canadian or Australian), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 Science--1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, 1 question Math/CS, 1 question Earth Sci/Astro, 1/1 Your Choice
3/3 Religion, Mythology and Philosophy--1/1 of each; should be different religions, mythologies, and philosophy time periods
3/3 Fine Arts--1/1 non-opera classical music, 1/1 painting, 1/1 other (opera, jazz, architecture, etc.)
2/2 Social science, geography--should include at least 1 question from each category (e.g. 2/1 ss, 0/1 geo or 1/1 ss, 1/1 geo but not 2/2 ss)
1/1 Trash, current events

adds up to 25/25.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:31 am**

5+5+5+3+3+2+1 is 24 as far as I can tell

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:32 am**

Kwang the Ninja wrote:Adding to the clamor of voices hoping that this gets moved back to the January 29th date, and noting that
Glacierguy1 wrote: 5/5 Literature--1/1 British, 1/1 European 500 CE onwards, 1/1 American, 1/1 World (includes classical), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 History--1/1 US, 1/1 World, 2/2 European, Canadian, Australian (should include 1 classical and no more than 1 Canadian or Australian), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 Science--1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, 1 question Math/CS, 1 question Earth Sci/Astro, 1/1 Your Choice
3/3 Religion, Mythology and Philosophy--1/1 of each; should be different religions, mythologies, and philosophy time periods
3/3 Fine Arts--1/1 non-opera classical music, 1/1 painting, 1/1 other (opera, jazz, architecture, etc.)
2/2 Social science, geography--should include at least 1 question from each category (e.g. 2/1 ss, 0/1 geo or 1/1 ss, 1/1 geo but not 2/2 ss)
1/1 Trash, current events
adds up to 25/25.

I count 24/24

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:36 am**

Moving back to the 29th would presumably leave no -$50 deadline; this date (2/19) will most likely work fine for VCU.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:39 am**

SirT wrote:Moving back to the 29th would presumably leave no -$50 deadline; this date will most likely work fine for VCU.

the lack of a -50 sure wouldn't

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:57 am**

Frater Taciturnus wrote:
SirT wrote:Moving back to the 29th would presumably leave no -$50 deadline; this date will most likely work fine for VCU.
the lack of a -50 sure wouldn't

I feel as though Penn should still offer a -$50 deadline even if the -$50 isn't six (or however many) weeks before the tournament; the responsibility for announcing the tournament well in advance so that teams can write early packets is Penn's, after all. -$50 makes sense for a packet written as early as possible; not for packets written earlier than possible.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:05 am**

Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Kwang the Ninja wrote:Adding to the clamor of voices hoping that this gets moved back to the January 29th date, and noting that
Glacierguy1 wrote: 5/5 Literature--1/1 British, 1/1 European 500 CE onwards, 1/1 American, 1/1 World (includes classical), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 History--1/1 US, 1/1 World, 2/2 European, Canadian, Australian (should include 1 classical and no more than 1 Canadian or Australian), 1/1 Your Choice
5/5 Science--1/1 Biology, 1/1 Chemistry, 1/1 Physics, 1 question Math/CS, 1 question Earth Sci/Astro, 1/1 Your Choice
3/3 Religion, Mythology and Philosophy--1/1 of each; should be different religions, mythologies, and philosophy time periods
3/3 Fine Arts--1/1 non-opera classical music, 1/1 painting, 1/1 other (opera, jazz, architecture, etc.)
2/2 Social science, geography--should include at least 1 question from each category (e.g. 2/1 ss, 0/1 geo or 1/1 ss, 1/1 geo but not 2/2 ss)
1/1 Trash, current events
adds up to 25/25.
I count 24/24

My bad, I somehow read the 1/1 Your Choice History as a separate line.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:16 am**

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Frater Taciturnus wrote:
SirT wrote:Moving back to the 29th would presumably leave no -$50 deadline; this date will most likely work fine for VCU.
the lack of a -50 sure wouldn't
I feel as though Penn should still offer a -$50 deadline even if the -$50 isn't six (or however many) weeks before the tournament; the responsibility for announcing the tournament well in advance so that teams can write early packets is Penn's, after all. -$50 makes sense for a packet written as early as possible; not for packets written earlier than possible.

Agreed. Why should the attending teams suffer due for a delay that is the fault of the host?

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:31 am**

I don't see how the attending teams would suffer; the Chicago tournament is pretty far away for most, if not all, Penn Bowl attendees. Also, Penn Bowl can always be mirrored, if it is mirrored, in the midwest at a later date, and Sack of Antwerp can always be mirrored, if it is mirrored, in the Mid-Atlantic at a later date.

Edit: It is also the responsibility of the host to provide a well-edited tournament. If you think that that's really going to happen when the no penalty deadline is like two weeks before the tournament or something (and we all know how many people get in their packets by the no penalty deadline), then more power to you.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:53 am**

Yeah, I'd vote for holding Penn Bowl on this date, then a Mid-Atlantic mirror of Siege on March 12 or March 19 (unless there's something wrong about those dates that I haven't noticed). Moving it there clogs the schedule a little bit, but it adds a free week between TIT and SCT, so it evens out. Also, giving the editors and submitting teams less than two months for this tournament seems like a bad idea. It could certainly work out, but the chances of having a good, polished set increase with the 2/19 date.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:03 pm**

Cernel Joson wrote:Yeah, I'd vote for holding Penn Bowl on this date, then a Mid-Atlantic mirror of Siege on March 12 or March 19 (unless there's something wrong about those dates that I haven't noticed).

Tournaments held over spring break tend to be problematic from both a reservations standpoint and a getting teams to show up standpoint.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:05 pm**

Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Cernel Joson wrote:Yeah, I'd vote for holding Penn Bowl on this date, then a Mid-Atlantic mirror of Siege on March 12 or March 19 (unless there's something wrong about those dates that I haven't noticed).
Tournaments held over spring break tend to be problematic from both a reservations standpoint and a getting teams to show up standpoint.

Well, that would potentially be something wrong that I didn't notice.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:05 pm**

I hope that RIT is able to send a team to this, but as this is the weekend before finals here, that may be difficult.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:12 pm**

To me, this demonstrates the insanity of the spring calendar in that there are too many tournaments, not enough open weeks that take into account things like high school tournaments/spring break, and the need for prompt, timely announcements.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:49 pm**

Cheynem wrote:To me, this demonstrates the insanity of the spring calendar in that there are too many tournaments, not enough open weeks that take into account things like high school tournaments/spring break, and the need for prompt, timely announcements.

I would suggest that the problem is not too many tournaments but rather too uneven a calendar distribution. There's a tournament every week from Jan. 22-Feb. 26 and then a vast open space between ACF Regionals and NAQT ICT. What's going on?

Is there some kind of a rush to get all the collegiate tournaments done in the winter to save the March-April stretch for high school tournaments or something?

Also: Is anyone mirroring either Penn Bowl or Sack of Antwerp in the southern California area, since ACF Regionals the following week will be in northern California?

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:57 pm**

Cheynem wrote:spring break

Sun Devil Student wrote:a vast open space between ACF Regionals and NAQT ICT

That vast open space is "March, and sometimes the first weekend of April." Tournaments in that range have trouble because of spring break.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:22 pm**

We were hoping to mirror this on 1/29, the same weekend as last year, so that we can a) make money and b) give Chicago-area teams to opportunity to play this set. If this set can't be moved up to that weekend, and provided our bid is accepted, will Penn be ok with a delayed mirror in early April?

edits: dates

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:31 pm**

March is not free. There is Illinois Open, Buzzerfest, and perhaps MUT. Also, spring breaks typically occur in March (for colleges).

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:46 pm**

It seems like a more practical solution considering everything is to have this set ready by 2/12. Whether you play the tournament at Penn on this date or not, it would be better for mirrors if this set were ready by 2/12.

Personally, I'd prefer to see this ready for 1/29, but I agree that a quality set likely wouldn't be produced in this short of a time frame.

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:06 pm**

Papa's in the House wrote:It seems like a more practical solution considering everything is to have this set ready by 2/12. Whether you play the tournament at Penn on this date or not, it would be better for mirrors if this set were ready by 2/12.

Personally, I'd prefer to see this ready for 1/29, but I agree that a quality set likely wouldn't be produced in this short of a time frame.

Yeah, it's possible we could make 2/12 work, it would just require some shuffling of our high school tournament.

edit: sorry to hijack the thread with discussion of a potential mirror, but I just wanted to add another voice calling for a slightly earlier for penn bowl

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:06 pm**

double post

Posted: **Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:22 pm**

Dan-Don wrote:We were hoping to mirror this on 1/29, the same weekend as last year, so that we can a) make money and b) give Chicago-area teams to opportunity to play this set. If this set can't be moved up to that weekend, and provided our bid is accepted, will Penn be ok with a delayed mirror in early April?

edits: dates

A Northwestern mirror on 2/12 would be fantastic for us.

Posted: **Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:17 am**

Dan-Don wrote:
Papa's in the House wrote:It seems like a more practical solution considering everything is to have this set ready by 2/12. Whether you play the tournament at Penn on this date or not, it would be better for mirrors if this set were ready by 2/12.

Personally, I'd prefer to see this ready for 1/29, but I agree that a quality set likely wouldn't be produced in this short of a time frame.
Yeah, it's possible we could make 2/12 work, it would just require some shuffling of our high school tournament.

edit: sorry to hijack the thread with discussion of a potential mirror, but I just wanted to add another voice calling for a slightly earlier for penn bowl

We would go to this (assuming it's the closest mirror).

Posted: **Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:52 pm**

Penn Bowl will now be on February 12. More details to follow.

EDIT: nope, no more details to follow as of now.

Posted: **Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:54 pm**

Are you planning on pursuing additional mirrors in the Midwest that might be closer to Missouri than Chicago?

Posted: **Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:31 pm**

Just a reminder that if you plan on playing at Penn or Northwestern and are required to submit a packet, you can avoid penalties by sending them in by Sunday. We've received packets so far from Maryland A, Michigan A, Illinois B, and Minnesota B.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 am**

Just bumping because I need to get a better idea of who all is coming. Even if you think you've implicitly done so, please register with me again (# teams, buzzers, staffers) at [email protected]. I'll keep a running list of teams officially registered in this post, so if you don't see your name here, you should e-mail me. Thanks!

Teams:
Alabama (2 teams, 1 buzzer, 1 staffer)
Columbia (2 teams, 2 buzzers)
George Mason (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Guelph (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Harvard (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Maryland (2 teams, 2 buzzers)
Montgomery College (1 team, 0 buzzers)
NYU (1 team, 0 buzzers)
Pitt (1 team, 1 buzzer, 1 staffer)
Princeton (1 team, 1 buzzer)
State College (1 team, 1 buzzer)
UVA (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Yale (1 team, 2 buzzers)

Total: (17 teams, 13? buzzers, 2 staffers)

The following are complete packets that have been received in full. For each day past the +$50 deadline, an additional $20 will be added. Teams that were required to submit a packet but did not can play for +$200, either at this site or the Northwestern site.

-$50 deadline:
Minnesota B

-$25 deadline:
Maryland A
Michigan A
Illinois B

+$0 deadline:
Guelph A
Guelph B
Alabama A
Chicago A
GMU
Michigan B (+$10)

+$25 deadline:
Alabama B
UIC
Columbia A
Yale

+$50 deadline:
Harvard
UVA
Illinois A
NYU

Others:
Chicago B (+$90)
Minnesota A (+$90)
Lawrence A (+$200)

Posted: **Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:28 pm**

Bump.

Packet deadline for those who have to submit is this Sunday.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:12 am**

Do collegiate tournaments played during high school included in the "collegiate tournament ~~before September 1, 2009?" I know they weren't in previous years, but I want to confirm given the recent ACF rule changes.~~

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:46 am**

Charbroil wrote:Do collegiate tournaments played during high school included in the "collegiate tournament ~~before September 1, 2009?" I know they weren't in previous years, but I want to confirm given the recent ACF rule changes.~~

I decided instead not to require high school teams to submit packets but also not offer the high school discount. Any high school teams would've still had the option of submitting early for the -$50/$25 discounts of course. We'll probably adopt the ACF changes in future years.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:58 pm**

Lapego1 wrote:
Charbroil wrote:Do collegiate tournaments played during high school included in the "collegiate tournament ~~before September 1, 2009?" I know they weren't in previous years, but I want to confirm given the recent ACF rule changes.~~
I decided instead not to require high school teams to submit packets but also not offer the high school discount. Any high school teams would've still had the option of submitting early for the -$50/$25 discounts of course. We'll probably adopt the ACF changes in future years.

I'm alluding to college teams with players who played collegiate tournaments in high school (specifically, our team and me). Do we need to submit a packet?

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:51 pm**

Charbroil wrote:
Lapego1 wrote:
Charbroil wrote:Do collegiate tournaments played during high school included in the "collegiate tournament ~~before September 1, 2009?" I know they weren't in previous years, but I want to confirm given the recent ACF rule changes.~~
I decided instead not to require high school teams to submit packets but also not offer the high school discount. Any high school teams would've still had the option of submitting early for the -$50/$25 discounts of course. We'll probably adopt the ACF changes in future years.
I'm alluding to college teams with players who played collegiate tournaments in high school (specifically, our team and me). Do we need to submit a packet?

No, not this year.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:20 pm**

So, we wouldn't have to submit either?

Posted: **Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:51 pm**

I'm updating the packet list as we speak and will post it in the post with our field. Now that the +$50 deadline has passed, further packets coming in will be charged an extra +$20 per day late in addition to the +$50 fee.

Posted: **Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:11 pm**

No idea if you got my e-mail or not, but we, Montgomery College, would like to sign up a team.

Posted: **Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:58 pm**

Gonzagapuma1 wrote:No idea if you got my e-mail or not, but we, Montgomery College, would like to sign up a team.

Yup I added you in earlier today.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:06 am**

Sweet. Thanks.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:18 am**

Possible interest from a team of Harvard freshmen as well. Updates as events warrant.

Posted: **Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:59 pm**

Hey so, question and a comment: first of all I'm not 100% sure we have a driver this weekend, so State College may pull out. Just a heads up. Secondly, if we were to come would it be cool if Ben Geselowitz played on our team?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:07 am**

TheKingInYellow wrote:Hey so, question and a comment: first of all I'm not 100% sure we have a driver this weekend, so State College may pull out. Just a heads up. Secondly, if we were to come would it be cool if Ben Geselowitz played on our team?

This seems like a bad idea.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:42 am**

Penn Bowl isn't an open, its a regular season event; I would rather not have such a team attend.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:26 pm**

Details have been sent out to team representatives. We're meeting in the Terrace Room of Claudia Cohen Hall, which is across from the auditorium we usually meet in. Cohen's nominal address is 249 S. 36th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104 if you want to mapquest it. Plan to arrive between 8:15 and 8:45am, which is when we'll end registration and get ready to get started. There are convenient breakfast places in the immediate vicinity so arriving early means you can get food!

Also, if people should tell me either here or by e-mail how many buzzers they're bringing if they have a question mark in the above post. If there are any extra teams out there that want to sign up, we would certainly appreciate it so we can get to 18. Else, we'll field a house team.

Posted: **Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:07 am**

Yeah, we're kind of at the weird number of 17 teams, so if anyone has 1-2 extra players that did not have to submit a packet, feel free to bring them along to play on an exhibition team.

Posted: **Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:12 am**

Lapego1 wrote:Yeah, we're kind of at the weird number of 17 teams, so if anyone has 1-2 extra players that did not have to submit a packet, feel free to bring them along to play on an exhibition team.

Perhaps, as per the exchange above, you could get Ben Geselowitz to come?

Also: I should probably warn y'all that I've been brought on last-minute to get the music under control.

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:25 am**

Live stats: http://results.scobo.net/penn/pb2011

The Quizbowl Resource Center

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