ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

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ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:29 am

The Washington University College Bowl Team will be hosting a mirror of the Academic Competition Federation (ACF) Regionals Tournament on February 26th, 2011.

I, Charles Hang, will probably be serving as the Tournament Director; if not, one of my esteemed teammates will be. To register for the tournament, or if you have any questions, please email us at washuqb@gmail.com.

Time

Tournament check-in will begin at 8:45 AM, morning announcements will be at 9:00, and play will begin at 9:15. The entire tournament (including awards and playoffs) should be over before 5:00. Each team will be guaranteed eleven games, and there will be finals as necessary to determine the champion.

Location

The tournament will be taking place in a building to be determined (Building TBD on the map at http://www.wustl.edu/community/visitors ... rthmap.pdf). Parking is plentiful for the event, and any of the major parking lots on the map should be fine.

Registration

To register, please e-mail us at washuqb@gmail.com with the following information:

1/ The Number of teams you will be bringing
2/ The Number of buzzers you will be bringing
3/ The number of players you will have, as well as their names.
4/ The number of staff (moderators and scorekeepers) you will be bringing

All registrations must be received prior to the date of the tournament. Once you register, I will send out all necessary information. Please feel free to share this announcement with any schools that you think would be interested in attending.

Fee Structure

Base fee: $120
Buzzer systems: -$5 each
Staffers: -$10 each
Travel: -$10 for every 200 mi. travelled
International: -$20
New to ACF teams: -$25
New to Quizbowl teams: -$75

Showing up late without getting in touch with me: +$20 penalty.

*To be defined as an individual capable of either reading a 20 tossup, 20 bonus match in under 30 minutes or capable of scorekeeping such a match.

We are, of course, willing to make accommodations if a team has trouble paying and wishes to arrange a payment plan, etc. Checks should be made out to "Washington University Academic Team;" we can also take cash payments, but greatly prefer payment by check.

Packet Submission

This is a packet submission tournament. Teams containing one or more players who have played in a collegiate tournament before September 1st, 2009 are required to submit packets. NOTE: This includes high school teams.

Teams which are not required to submit packets are also welcome to submit them for additional discounts.

For more information, please visit: http://www.acf-quizbowl.com/documents/p ... p#required

Here is the packet submission schedule:

Before January 2, 2011: -$50 and my undying respect
January 2, 2011: -$50
January 16, 2011: -$25 (-$50 for optional packets)
January 30, 2011: early birthday present for me gets you no penalty (-$25 for optional packets)
February 6, 2011: +$25
February 13, 2011: +$50 and a big frowny face

Please send all packets to acfregs2011@gmail.com; to make things easier, mention "packet" in your subject line.

High School Staffing Discount

In addition to offering the above discounts for collegiate teams attending this event, we will also be offering a $10 discount to every high school player, coach, or anyone else involved with a high school event who volunteers to staff our event, to be applied towards admissions fees for our high school tournament, the Washington University High School Academic Challenge (WUHSAC). We will also offer a $5 discount per 50 miles traveled, one way, for individuals affiliated with high schools traveling 50 or more miles to staff our tournament.

NOTE: If you sign up to staff ACF Regionals 2011 before WUHSAC 2011 (January 29th, 2011), we are willing to give you the WUHSAC discount even before you actually staff the tournament. However, if you choose not to staff ACF Regionals 2011, we will request a refund of the discount.

Eligibility

ACF eligibility rules can be found at http://acf-quizbowl.com/documents/acfrules_final.pdf beginning on page 3.

Questions

The tournament will be using the ACF Regionals set, a regular difficulty collegiate set. Examples of past ACF Regionals tournaments can be found at collegiate.quizbowlpackets.com.

Field (To be updated as registrations and expressions of interest appear)

Attending (17+)
WUSTL (0+)
Illinois (1)
Northwestern (2)
Miami of Ohio (2)
Kansas State (1)
Ohio State (2)
Chicago
Centre College
Truman State (3)
Michigan (2)
Missouri
"Batmen Hijack My Zen" (Ben Chametzky)

Expressed Interest

I look forward to seeing you at Washington University on February 26th!*

* Unless I'm not there, in which case whoever is directing the tournament will see you with hopefully as much enthusiasm.
Last edited by Charbroil on Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:42 am, edited 25 times in total.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Papa's in the House » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:51 pm

We'll have 2 teams and 2 buzzers. An email has been sent.
Last edited by Papa's in the House on Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by crobbins52 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:11 pm

Expect a team from Harding with two buzzer sets.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Dan-Don » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:36 pm

Northwestern will have 2 teams (about 6-8 players), 0 buzzers, 0 staffers, 1 travel discount, and a -$50 packet discount. If you want to email me your invoice ASAP, I can work on getting a check to have on the 26th.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by hubercl » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:11 am

Miami (OH) will likely bring 3 teams. I'll be emailing the registration info today

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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:52 am

We're planning on attending this with 1 team, and we'll bring a buzzer system with us as well. I'll send you an e-mail once I get all the details worked out on our end.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by alexdz » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:41 pm

K-State has submitted a packet for a discount according to the master announcement. I would assume that they'd be attending this site, so you might contact them for confirmation of that?
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:15 am

alexdz wrote:K-State has submitted a packet for a discount according to the master announcement. I would assume that they'd be attending this site, so you might contact them for confirmation of that?
They are; I just didn't update the field to reflect that fact.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by jcnorman » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:31 am

The University of Arkansas is planning to attend. I will email you in the coming days with all of the necessary information.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Notably Not Pierre » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:02 pm

UChicago is planning on sending one (or possibly two) team(s) to this. We'll also have 1 buzzer and potentially 1 moderator as well. I'll let you know the exact number tonight.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by EncyclopediaCDRom » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:17 am

UIC may enter this regional provided that our packet can be finished by this Sunday; otherwise, I will be attending my first Daytona Speedweeks beginning in just nine days.

Back from an amazing solo in Urbana-Champaign,
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by crobbins52 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:25 am

I think that Harding will have to drop from the field. There's just no way our packet would get finished without outside help.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:28 am

crobbins52 wrote:I think that Harding will have to drop from the field. There's just no way our packet would get finished without outside help.
Want to email me and explain the situation, and we'll try to figure out what can be done?
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:10 am

Notably Not Pierre wrote:UChicago is planning on sending one (or possibly two) team(s) to this. We'll also have 1 buzzer and potentially 1 moderator as well. I'll let you know the exact number tonight.
Any news about this?
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:29 am

Minor correction--checks should be made out to "Washington University Academic Team" instead of "Washington University College Bowl."
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Notably Not Pierre » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:58 am

UChicago is sending 1team (not packet-writing). I won't be playing, so I'll be available to moderate. We have 1 buzzer.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Ringil » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:44 pm

Michigan looks like its sending 2 teams to this. We will also bring 3 buzzers.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:16 am

We'd like to tentatively cap the number of teams soon, so teams should sign up soon if they haven't already.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by crobbins52 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:19 am

Looking at the current field, you should assume we won't be at this.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Papa's in the House » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:46 am

Two of our freshmen dropped, so we'll only have one team.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by EncyclopediaCDRom » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:30 am

UIC Campus Programs cannot spare staffers to drive us to WUSL as they did to UIUC for NAQT SCT, so UIC is withdrawing. I will save my unsubmiited packet for something like a July Chicago Open.

Off to the "World Center for Racing" tomorrow,
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:11 pm

Due to schedule conflicts, about half of our team wouldn't be able to go next weekend, so WKU is going to have to unfortunately drop. We hope this doesn't cause any inconviences.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by jcnorman » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:55 pm

Due to lack of school funding and the inexperienced nature of our team, the University of Arkansas is opting to withdraw from the tournament. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by joel22 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:02 pm

Due to Charles being extremely busy, I will be hosting ACF Regionals. If you need to get in touch with me on the morning of the tournament, you can call me at 301-518-5594.

We're at 16 teams right now and I'd really like to get the field to 18 if possible.

Thanks
Joel Muskin-Pierret
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by hubercl » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:29 pm

So, a final update for Miami University. As stated before, we'll be bringing three teams. We'll have one set of buzzers, and three 200 mile discounts, which by my calculations makes our fee total $325. Our participating members have changed, though. Do you need a revised list by email?

Do you have a finalized building location for check in and for the tournament itself?

Thanks
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by joel22 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:13 pm

The tournament will take place in Eads Hall (Building 31 on this map: http://parking.wustl.edu/parkingmap_2010.pdf). Check in will be on the second floor. You can park in any lot marked in yellow on that map, the closest are the large surface lots on the east end of campus.
hubercl wrote:So, a final update for Miami University. As stated before, we'll be bringing three teams. We'll have one set of buzzers, and three 200 mile discounts, which by my calculations makes our fee total $325. Our participating members have changed, though. Do you need a revised list by email?

Do you have a finalized building location for check in and for the tournament itself?

Thanks
For Miami, I have a total of $295, $120 per team, minus $5 for one buzzer, $10 dollars for 1travel discount (this is one way distance per institution, not per team) and 2 $25 packet discounts.

If teams could please send final rosters and counts of buzzers and staff to the team email, that would be helpful. Any team that wants an updated invoice should also send us an email. I'm still waiting to get all of the packet discounts though.
Joel Muskin-Pierret
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by joel22 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:11 am

With the addition of a 3rd Truman State team the field is now full.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:04 am

Uh, why are you closing the field? If you can run 18 teams, you can run 19 teams with the same number of staff in 12 rounds, plus finals.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by hubercl » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:51 pm

Miami University will only be able to field two teams, a couple of members had family emergencies and can't make it which pushes our numbers down to having two teams.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:05 am

From the email I just sent out:
Hello,

We're looking forward to seeing you at our tournament this Saturday. First of all, if you haven't sent in your roster or confirmed the number of buzzers and/or staffers you're bringing, please do so. Also, please confirm your packet situation as well as your team status (DII, Undergraduate, DI).

In any case, here's what our field looks like:

WUSTL (0+)
Illinois (1)
Northwestern (2)
Miami of Ohio (2)
Kansas State (1)
Ohio State (2)
Chicago
Centre College
Truman State (3)
Michigan (2)
Missouri
"Batmen Hijack My Zen" (Ben Chametzky)

We will have two preliminary brackets of 9 teams each, which will play a round robin, after which we will rebracket into three brackets of 6 teams, in which you will play the 3 teams in your bracket which were not in your preliminary bracket, for a total of 12 rounds. We hope to be done by 5:00 PM.

The tournament will start at 9 AM. Teams are asked to report by 8:45 to Eads 203, Eads being Building 32 on the map at http://www.wustl.edu/community/visitors ... rthmap.pdf. If you know you are going to be late, please call me at 636-219-1660 or my co-tournament director, Joel Muskin-Pierret, at 301-518-5594; if you don't call by 9:00 AM, you will be assessed the $20 late fee.

All teams will receive an official invoice on Saturday. If you decide to pay on Saturday, please make checks payable to Washington University Academic Team; the fee schedule can be found at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10987#p206600

Please don't forget to bring buzzer sets and staffers if you volunteered to bring them. Staffers should bring their laptops or let us know that they need to borrow a laptop.

In any case, I look forward to seeing you at WUSTL on the 26th. Please let me know if you have any questions.

With regards,



Charles Hang
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by sds » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:07 am

Charbroil wrote:Eads 203, Eads being Building 32 on the map at http://www.wustl.edu/community/visitors ... rthmap.pdf.
To avoid any confusion - you mean building 31, rather than 32?
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by joel22 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:38 am

sds wrote:
Charbroil wrote:Eads 203, Eads being Building 32 on the map at http://www.wustl.edu/community/visitors ... rthmap.pdf.
To avoid any confusion - you mean building 31, rather than 32?
No, we mean building 32 on this map.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by itsthatoneguy » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:00 am

Since no one else is doing it...

Michigan A (who went X-0) beat Michigan B in the finals. This is all the information I have since I was not there (i.e. someone please post stats soon).
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:27 am

itsthatoneguy wrote:(i.e. someone please post stats soon).
viewtopic.php?p=208243#p208243
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:39 am

Stuff I know:

Chicago, Ohio State A, Northwestern A, and "Batmen Hijack my Zen" finished in the top bracket in that order behind the Michigan teams.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:39 am

Congratulations to Michigan A for going 12-0 to defeat Michigan B (10-2)! Michigan B was also our Undergraduate Champion, while Ben Chametzky playing solo won the Division II championship.

Statistics - Preliminaries - Playoffs - Combined

Just to note, Miami of Ohio had to leave before the last round (which was supposed to be played between Miami A and Miami B) because they had to get on the road by a certain time according to restrictions on their transportation.

Also, the advantaged final teams are broken out of the preliminary brackets to preserve the order of finish.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:49 pm

Other than problems caused by a lack of staffers, this tournament was fun and I enjoyed it.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Auroni » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:23 pm

Those playoff and combined staaaaaaats appear to be the same.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Unicolored Jay » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:49 pm

every time i refresh i have a new name wrote:Those playoff and combined staaaaaaats appear to be the same.
That's strange. I'm sure I saw the combined stats this morning.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:41 pm

every time i refresh i have a new name wrote:Those playoff and combined staaaaaaats appear to be the same.
In the course of reuploading the statistics to include packet information, I accidentally uploaded the wrong files. This has been fixed.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Charbroil » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:25 pm

By the way, I'd like to thank my co-tournament director, Joel Muskin-Pierret, for stepping up to do much of the work to organize this tournament after I became swamped with work; especially for a freshman, his dedication to our team is impressive and much appreciated.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by chemist685 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:03 am

I just want people to know that this was honestly the worst tournament I've ever been to. I don’t normally do this. I’m not out to bash tournaments or complain about nothing when I go play quizbowl. I’ve hosted tournaments before and I know it’s a lot of work and that things can go wrong. So, I’m pretty tolerant of minor issues at other tournaments. However, the recent mirror of ACF Regionals at WashU (WUSTL) went so poorly that I feel the need to rant about it here. WashU has hosted good tournaments in the past, but this was not one of those tournaments. A combination of several mistakes by the TDs culminated in a tournament that did not end until after 7:30 and left several teams extremely frustrated. Here, a list of grievances:

1. The bracketing made absolutely no sense. In both brackets there was a haphazard mix of DI, DII, and UG teams. It appeared to me that the names were drawn out of a hat. As a result of this, our C team had to play Michigan A (final score: 540-0). This is a complete injustice against the spirit of quiz bowl. I’m not bashing Chicago, Michigan, or Ohio State – it’s just that they had absolutely no business playing most of the teams present. At the very least, these teams should have been in their own separate bracket. To me, this represents a clear lack of foresight by the TDs.

2. The TDs tried to deny us discounts that we definitely earned. For instance, we were originally told that we did not qualify for a driving discount since we had not gone 200 miles. One can easily confirm via Google Maps that the distance between Truman and WashU is 210 miles by the 63-I70 route, which is the most commonly taken route. Charles also tried to tell us that we would not receive a discount for sending three staffers to WUHSAC earlier in the year, when he had promised me before that we would receive these discounts. When I mentioned this email that he had sent, he quickly withdrew his statement and gave us the $30 discount.

3. The tournament suffered early on from a lack of moderators. I understand that not all of this was the directors’ fault; some staffers failed to show up or showed up late. However, WashU seems to have consistently had a problem with this in the past. On at least three separate occasions this year (ACF Novice, GIT, and WUHSAC) the WashU directors practically begged us to bring staffers. This should not be happening. Truman hosted ACF Fall this year, and while we of course offered discounts if teams brought staffers, we did not personally ask any teams to help staff. In fact, we had an overflow of staffers. WashU’s team is at least as large as ours, so I don’t really see how there was such a problem getting people to show up. I realize that ACF Regionals is a larger tournament than ACF Fall, but the fact remains that WashU has had staffing issues in the past that have never been resolved, and this fact was especially evident Saturday. The desperation of the TDs was especially evident when Charles asked the parents of one of our team members to help staff (which, as we all know from HS, is a terrible idea).

4. Of the moderators that were present, most of them were not good at all. I think the only high-quality moderators there were Gordon and Ikshu, and unfortunately I was never in their rooms. We had a pretty decent moderator in our room, but he still read too slowly for my taste. The rest of the moderators were sub-par, blundering through the questions, not speaking clearly, and butchering simple words, including REDACTED. I’m pretty sure one of the girls had never moderated before (probably a last-minute recruit by TDs). But probably the biggest issue was with the coach from Carbondale, which warrants its own section.

5. Ben from Carbondale HS attended the tournament as a one-man team, and his coach Mrs. L also attended to help staff. While she was a decent moderator (despite her frequent side-comments between questions), a mistake made by her cost us a game against Illinois which we should have easily won. Specifically, Mrs. L gave the answer to the question before our teammate (who had buzzed in) gave her answer (which she knew – this was a very easy question about REDACTED). The question was given to us at that point, but it was grounds for protest at the end of the game when Illinois came within 40 points. The question was then thrown out (along with our 20 points). Mrs. L then read another question in a completely different category, which Illinois answered, and they answered enough bonus parts to win the game. I’m not bashing Illinois here at all, that’s not the point of this article, but I’m saying that an amateur mistake by this moderator cost us the game. Furthermore, I heard from our C team that when Ben was in Mrs. L’s room, TDs did not rotate her out, and when she read answers she directed them specifically to him. This could be misconstrued as bias and is unacceptable. Furthermore, the TDs knew beforehand that Mrs. L was staffing (her name was typed in on the schedule) but they nevertheless placed Ben in her room. This is unacceptable and ought to have been avoided.

6. Several teams, not just us, were extremely frustrated with the running of this tournament. But apparently Charles didn’t think too much was wrong, since we observed him taking a nap during a round of the tournament (when he should have been helping to staff). In my opinion this is unacceptable behavior; I would never think of taking a nap during a tournament that I was directing even if things were going well (which they definitely were not here).

7. Our first match started reasonably on time (around 9:15) and finished fairly quickly (by 9:40). After that, however, we had to wait over 30 minutes for the next game to start. Apparently some of the other rooms were “waiting for packets” which doesn’t make sense, as our room started on time. From that point on, none of the rooms ran together, much less on time, and this was further worsened by the lack of staffers/good staffers as I talked about earlier. We had only finished four rounds when we took a lunch break at 12:15. Ideally, things should have been reset after lunch, since the major bugs should have been worked out and everyone started at the same time, but for reasons unknown there were still long wait times and lags between rooms. We waited at least 10-15 minutes to start each successive round. The end result was a tournament which ended at seven thirty. Actually, the tournament wasn’t even over yet, this was just when we left: there were still teams playing games.

I think that’s all I have to say about this. Our other team members told me more stories about bad moderating, but I won’t post those here, since I didn’t experience them firsthand. The several things which went wrong on Saturday created a tournament that was not fun, and we were happy to leave. WashU has hosted good tournaments in the past, but after this we will think twice about attending future tournaments hosted there, and the community should be wary about giving bids to WashU for big tournaments like this.

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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:25 am

chemist685 wrote:1. The bracketing made absolutely no sense. In both brackets there was a haphazard mix of DI, DII, and UG teams. It appeared to me that the names were drawn out of a hat. As a result of this, our C team had to play Michigan A (final score: 540-0). This is a complete injustice against the spirit of quiz bowl. I’m not bashing Chicago, Michigan, or Ohio State – it’s just that they had absolutely no business playing most of the teams present. At the very least, these teams should have been in their own separate bracket. To me, this represents a clear lack of foresight by the TDs.
This is and always has been standard practice; NAQT SCT and ICT are the only collegiate tournaments that split teams into preliminary brackets based on the teams' experience (or skill) level. Balanced preliminary brackets allow each team a variety of competition against the full spectrum of teams at the tournament before rebracketing based on that performance. I don't really agree that your C team being beaten by Michigan A is a "complete injustice against the spirit of quizbowl" -- there are plenty of good things that can be taken away from experiencing a beating at the hands of a superior team.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Cheynem » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:28 am

You will learn to hate that horrible Kurtis Droge for one thing.

In seriousness, rebracketing theoretically solves this problem by ensuring you are playing actual teams along the lines of your skill level in the last few rounds.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:41 am

Kevin, you are right about a lot of things in your post. Charles Hang has demonstrated himself to be a completely incompetent staffer, much less director, in more ways than I could ever begin to count, and I sincerely hope Wash U's leadership finally begins to wise up about him and find someone else to be put in charge of major operations for their team. However, some things about your post show you don't quite get it either.
chemist685 wrote:1. The bracketing made absolutely no sense. In both brackets there was a haphazard mix of DI, DII, and UG teams. It appeared to me that the names were drawn out of a hat. As a result of this, our C team had to play Michigan A (final score: 540-0). This is a complete injustice against the spirit of quiz bowl. I’m not bashing Chicago, Michigan, or Ohio State – it’s just that they had absolutely no business playing most of the teams present. At the very least, these teams should have been in their own separate bracket. To me, this represents a clear lack of foresight by the TDs.
As Rob said, this is just how it's done. If you don't like it, too bad. The whole point of a tournament is to have teams play a wide variety of opposition, and then sort through the opposition until the best teams are weeded out. Lots of teams specifically go to tournaments because they want to see the best teams in the game in action to get blown out and learn how far behind they are. To ask for anything else is both impractical and detrimental to the point of running a tournament.
3. The tournament suffered early on from a lack of moderators. I understand that not all of this was the directors’ fault; some staffers failed to show up or showed up late. However, WashU seems to have consistently had a problem with this in the past. On at least three separate occasions this year (ACF Novice, GIT, and WUHSAC) the WashU directors practically begged us to bring staffers. This should not be happening. Truman hosted ACF Fall this year, and while we of course offered discounts if teams brought staffers, we did not personally ask any teams to help staff. In fact, we had an overflow of staffers. WashU’s team is at least as large as ours, so I don’t really see how there was such a problem getting people to show up. I realize that ACF Regionals is a larger tournament than ACF Fall, but the fact remains that WashU has had staffing issues in the past that have never been resolved, and this fact was especially evident Saturday. The desperation of the TDs was especially evident when Charles asked the parents of one of our team members to help staff (which, as we all know from HS, is a terrible idea).
I don't like this either. Some teams simply cannot wrangle all their staff when they need them. In particular, singling out WUHSAC, a gigantic 36 team tournament which, at this point in the game, Truman could not possibly attempt to pull off, is not helpful at all. We have to be realistic about our field sizes with the moderators at our disposal, but the community also is often really helpful about providing good staff to teams without perfect resources. Mizzou tournaments couldn't happen without lots of outside volunteers, neither could most tournaments anywhere. Demanding people not ask for outside staff is way out of touch with reality.
5. Ben from Carbondale HS attended the tournament as a one-man team, and his coach Mrs. L also attended to help staff. While she was a decent moderator (despite her frequent side-comments between questions), a mistake made by her cost us a game against Illinois which we should have easily won. Specifically, Mrs. L gave the answer to the question before our teammate (who had buzzed in) gave her answer (which she knew – this was a very easy question about REDACTED). The question was given to us at that point, but it was grounds for protest at the end of the game when Illinois came within 40 points. The question was then thrown out (along with our 20 points)... This could be misconstrued as bias and is unacceptable. Furthermore, the TDs knew beforehand that Mrs. L was staffing (her name was typed in on the schedule) but they nevertheless placed Ben in her room. This is unacceptable and ought to have been avoided.
Look, moderators screw up sometimes, it's your job to protest. If you don't like they way protest resolution is handled, complain about that to the director, but the whole point of the protests are to have a way out if a moderator accidentally screws something up, because readers are not perfect. Also, people constantly put coaches in to read at tournaments where their teams are playing, especially because, you know, it's sort of a courtesy to let a coach see their team play during a tournament, since if they weren't staffing they would be watching their team the whole day otherwise, and seeing your team play can be very important as a coach. Would you like me to never read for games Mizzou plays in ever? The only problem is if they are obviously biased readers, just because you have an aesthetic preference about it doesn't make you actually right here. It's nothing remotely close to "unacceptable."
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Geringer » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:48 am

chemist685 wrote: 5. Ben from Carbondale HS attended the tournament as a one-man team, and his coach Mrs. L also attended to help staff. While she was a decent moderator (despite her frequent side-comments between questions), a mistake made by her cost us a game against Illinois which we should have easily won. Specifically, Mrs. L gave the answer to the question before our teammate (who had buzzed in) gave her answer (which she knew – this was a very easy question about REDACTED). The question was given to us at that point, but it was grounds for protest at the end of the game when Illinois came within 40 points. The question was then thrown out (along with our 20 points). Mrs. L then read another question in a completely different category, which Illinois answered, and they answered enough bonus parts to win the game. I’m not bashing Illinois here at all, that’s not the point of this article, but I’m saying that an amateur mistake by this moderator cost us the game. Furthermore, I heard from our C team that when Ben was in Mrs. L’s room, TDs did not rotate her out, and when she read answers she directed them specifically to him. This could be misconstrued as bias and is unacceptable. Furthermore, the TDs knew beforehand that Mrs. L was staffing (her name was typed in on the schedule) but they nevertheless placed Ben in her room. This is unacceptable and ought to have been avoided.
Hey dude, look...I understand you're pissed that you had a bad time or lost a game on a protest or whatever at this tournament, but there's a big difference between you ripping on the TD and ripping on a very nice lady who came to staff to make your tournament possible. What I find unbelievable is that your entire post not only questions her integrity, but puts into a public forum an embarrassing mistake that I'm sure she regrets making.
Last edited by Geringer on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Dan-Don » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:56 am

5. Ben from Carbondale HS attended the tournament as a one-man team, and his coach Mrs. L also attended to help staff. While she was a decent moderator (despite her frequent side-comments between questions), a mistake made by her cost us a game against Illinois which we should have easily won. Specifically, Mrs. L gave the answer to the question before our teammate (who had buzzed in) gave her answer (which she knew – this was a very easy question about REDACTED). The question was given to us at that point, but it was grounds for protest at the end of the game when Illinois came within 40 points. The question was then thrown out (along with our 20 points)
So, Coach Lorinskas made an error. In an act of good sportsmanship, Coach Lorinskas trusted that your teammate did know the answer, and (with UIUC's permission, I assume), she awarded your teammate points. Then, after you won the match, UIUC decided that they wanted to protest the incident, and the TDs overturned the moderator's earlier decision. Is that right? This sounds like it could spark a good theory thread, but this does not reflect poorly on Coach Lorinskas, who was one of the best moderators at the the tournament (and made no side-commends when I had her). It sounds to me like she tried to do the sportsmanlike thing here, and she wasn't the one who upheld UIUC's protest.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:17 am

Dan-Don wrote:
5. Ben from Carbondale HS attended the tournament as a one-man team, and his coach Mrs. L also attended to help staff. While she was a decent moderator (despite her frequent side-comments between questions), a mistake made by her cost us a game against Illinois which we should have easily won. Specifically, Mrs. L gave the answer to the question before our teammate (who had buzzed in) gave her answer (which she knew – this was a very easy question about REDACTED). The question was given to us at that point, but it was grounds for protest at the end of the game when Illinois came within 40 points. The question was then thrown out (along with our 20 points)
So, Coach Lorinskas made an error. In an act of good sportsmanship, Coach Lorinskas trusted that your teammate did know the answer, and (with UIUC's permission, I assume), she awarded your teammate points. Then, after you won the match, UIUC decided that they wanted to protest the incident, and the TDs overturned the moderator's earlier decision. Is that right? This sounds like it could spark a good theory thread, but this does not reflect poorly on Coach Lorinskas, who was one of the best moderators at the the tournament (and made no side-commends when I had her). It sounds to me like she tried to do the sportsmanlike thing here, and she wasn't the one who upheld UIUC's protest.
If this is seriously what happened, then you have a horrendous attitude, Kevin.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by Wackford Squeers » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:23 am

Nothing in Kevin's post seems like that legitimately major a complaint to me. While I too would be annoyed in his situation, the relatively minor grievances he is complaining about don't seem to warrant branding the entire tournament as an abject failure. Looking at the tournament as a whole, things ran pretty smoothly. Yeah, it finished late, but not much later than I (or, to my knowledge, anybody) went in expecting. Taking into account the general opinion of others and the status quo of college quiz bowl in general, most of the grievances Kevin enumerates seem to be, in my estimation, petty.
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Re: ACF Regionals at WUSTL (2/26/2011)

Post by JMAC the Chef » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:31 am

Look, as inappropriate as some of you seem to find Kevin's later grievances, I feel as though a good deal of them hold some validity. First and foremost, the tournament was poorly run. I know that there was a lack of moderators present, but taking thirty minutes in an extreme instance between rounds trying to find a moderator is inexcusable especially when one considers how much money teams are paying to attend in the first place. I know tournament's run over quite often, but running more than two hours over the original stated end-time seems to be just the slightest bit excessive. As for the later issues with the moderator from Carbondale, I do not believe Kevin is suggesting some sort of Kennedy-esque conspiracy here or trying to question the overall integrity of this woman, but os simply pointing out that having a player's coach moderate in said player's room is somewhat out of the ordinary. Charles you do make a good point as sometimes it is unavoidable, but I do question that in this instance as she was pegged as a moderator for that room in the schedules we were handed in the morning. The fact that no-one in charge of the tournament seemed to notice this is incredulous to me, as all it would have taken was a simple quick switch of room moderators for that particular round; nothing more and nothing less. Though this might be considered petty, I believe that such a "minor" oversight as this only serves as further demonstration of the shocking ineptitude on display at the tournament. With all of that being said, WashU has had some well-run tournaments in this past and the optimist in me hopes that this was simply an aberration.
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