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2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:28 pm
by eliza.grames
Minnesota will be collaborating on Illinois on writing MUT this year. Questions will come from Illinois players, packet submissions by younger Minnesota teams, and the editors/writers of the tournament. This year's central writing team/editors are, in no particular order, Andrew Hart, myself (Eliza Grames), Mike Cheyne, Gaurav Kandlikar, Robin Heinonen, and Ike Jose. The difficulty will be roughly the same as past incarnations, which means slightly harder than ACF Fall and slightly easier than ACF Regionals. Last year's set can be found here.

Mirrors: We are interested in running mirrors everywhere there is quizbowl. The mirror fee is $30/team (including house teams), just like last year. The dates for mirrors can be anywhere from March 17 to the end of the semester, pending complaints. The reason for this is that there aren't a lot of tournaments besides ACF Nats and ICT, so different regions have different availability for tournament hosting. If you are interested in hosting a mirror, please contact me at [email protected].

Mirror sites:
East Coast: VCU 4/14
East Coast2: South Carolina 3/17
Southeast: Tulane 4/14
South: Valencia TBD
Great Lakes: Waterloo 3/17
Midwest: Illinois 4/14
Northwest: Boise State 4/21
UK: Warwick 4/28
West Coast (North): Berkeley 4/07
West Coast (South): Claremont 4/14
Northeast: MIT 4/28

Distribution:
1/1 American Literature
1/1 British Literature
1/1 European Literature
1/1 World and Other Literature
1/1 American History
1/1 World History
1/1 British/Euro History
1/1 British Euro History
1/1 Physics
1/1 Chemistry
1/1 Biology
1/1 Other Sci (math, CS, earth science, geology, astronomy)
1/1 Painting
1/1 Music
1/1 Other Art
1/1 Myth
1/1 Philosophy
1/1 Religion
1/1 Social Science
1/1 Trash/Current Events/Other

Logistics: Details to follow in a few months.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:30 pm
by Cheynem
Just to be clear, this is the merging of MUT and GAAP alluded to elsewhere.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:00 pm
by theMoMA
eliza.grames wrote:The difficulty will be roughly the same as past incarnations, which means slightly harder than ACF Fall and slightly easier than ACF Regionals.
For what it's worth, I've always written and edited this tournament to reflect a Fall-level difficulty. I think we've traditionally edited it that way, but it may be that our concept of difficulty (and the fact that it's a spring tournament, which somewhat expands the things people are comfortable writing on) has made it shade a little harder than that. Either way, new teams and players will not feel out of place at this tournament.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:23 pm
by cornfused
I've actually always found MUT to be slightly easier than Fall. I guess this just shows that difficulty is hard to pin down.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:10 pm
by mhayes
eliza.grames wrote:VCU 3/31
Isn't this the date of the ICT?

Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:13 pm
by Important Bird Area
mhayes wrote:
eliza.grames wrote:VCU 3/31
Isn't this the date of the ICT?
It is.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:15 pm
by Matt Weiner
VCU mirror date is TBD, in fact.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:25 pm
by eliza.grames
Matt Weiner wrote:VCU mirror date is TBD, in fact.
Fixed.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:31 pm
by eliza.grames
mhayes wrote: Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.
Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 pm
by mhayes
eliza.grames wrote:
mhayes wrote: Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.
Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!
Ouch...

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:31 am
by eliza.grames
mhayes wrote:
eliza.grames wrote:
mhayes wrote: Also, we're interested in hosting a mirror of this, but we have to hash out a few things related to staffing since we have a lot of new people with little experience in this regard.
Waterloo emailed me first about hosting a mirror, so that solves your staffing problem!
Ouch...
I don't see how that's a bad thing. You have inexperienced players (who I'm guessing would rather play the tournament than staff it) and Waterloo wants to host, which means they'll be providing the staff. It seems to be a win-win if you ask me, except that you have to drive like six hours to get there, which really isn't terrible.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:29 pm
by mhayes
Sorry, my response came across differently than what was intended. I actually agree with you.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:45 am
by eliza.grames
South Carolina has added a second mirror on the east coast. I just wanted to make it clear that this was not an oversight of the VCU mirror, and that VCU told South Carolina that there was not overlap.

We still have no mirrors west of Minnesota. If you are interested, please contact me relatively soon.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:08 pm
by Khanate
Distribution question.

Are you considering opera, ballet, and musicals in Music or in "Other Art"?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm
by Auks Ran Ova
Khanate wrote:Distribution question?

Are you considering opera, ballet, and musicals in Music or in "Other Art"?
The latter, which is generally evenly divided between "opera, ballet, jazz, and other auditory fine arts" and "sculpture, architecture, photography, and other visual fine arts".

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm
by Edward Elric
Since Illinois is collaborating with Minnesota on this, do you forsee a mirror at UIUC?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:09 pm
by Ike
Yes. Expect an announcement in the near future.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:38 pm
by Papa's in the House
Edward Elric wrote:Since Illinois is collaborating with Minnesota on this, do you forsee a mirror at UIUC?
The date is 4/14. The TD will make an announcement sometime soon.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:38 pm
by mtimmons
Maybe this is somewhere earlier in this thread but what is the date of the Minnesota site?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 pm
by eliza.grames
mtimmons wrote:Maybe this is somewhere earlier in this thread but what is the date of the Minnesota site?
Whoops, I forgot to ever add that - thanks for the reminder! It will be on 4/14.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:31 pm
by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill
Stony Brook could try to provide the NE mirror for this instead of a high school tournament (only because we do not want to butt heads with my old high school's tournament), but we would need quite a bit of help.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:50 pm
by eliza.grames
Production of Watchmen wrote:Stony Brook could try to provide the NE mirror for this instead of a high school tournament (only because we do not want to butt heads with my old high school's tournament), but we would need quite a bit of help.
Do you mean you would need quite a bit of help with logistics and planning to host a tournament, or you would need staff from the NE area?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:18 pm
by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill
Primarily the latter. As it is, we have yet to receive confirmation that we'd actually have the space to hold a tournament regardless of what set we eventually use.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:40 pm
by Kyle
Eliza -- on the topic of mirrors, the University of Warwick wants to host one in Coventry on April 28. They are supposed to contact you this weekend.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:56 am
by eliza.grames
Production of Watchmen wrote:Primarily the latter. As it is, we have yet to receive confirmation that we'd actually have the space to hold a tournament regardless of what set we eventually use.
Let me know if you find that you have a space and staff to host a mirror; in the meantime, I'll hold off on actively seeking out NE hosts.
Kyle wrote:Eliza -- on the topic of mirrors, the University of Warwick wants to host one in Coventry on April 28. They are supposed to contact you this weekend.
Oh good, because Manchester told me that Sheffield would probably want to host, and Sheffield told me that Manchester would be interested. I will let you know if I don't hear from them and need to get contact information. Thanks for arranging things over there!

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:55 pm
by Cheynem
Note about eligibility:

This tournament is for undergraduates. You can be any year in playing as an undergraduate as long as you are in a typical degree-earning program. By undergraduate, I am defining as "have not earned a bachelor's degree" or the equivalent of such (i.e., you can have played five years of college quizbowl and still be an undergraduate).

You can play if you are a high schooler.

You cannot play if you are not in school at all. If you graduated like in the fall, you can play--that's cool.

You cannot play on an open team. You must play for your college or educational institution (obviously if you need to "go rogue" as a high schooler that's okay). We are aware that occasionally field sizes may require some flexibility here--please contact us if this is something that needs resolved.

You cannot play if you are a graduate student. I am aware that there are occasional gray areas here, so I would urge all TD's to run any potential "question mark" eligibility cases with the MUT editors. If we determine there is a bad faith example of eligibility gaps being broken, we will not be amused.

THESE RESTRICTIONS APPLY TO EVERY SITE, NOT JUST THE MAIN SITE.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:33 am
by Wackford Squeers
Cheynem wrote:Note about eligibility:

You can play if you are a high schooler.

You cannot play if you are not in school at all. If you graduated like in the fall, you can play--that's cool.

You cannot play on an open team. You must play for your college or educational institution (obviously if you need to "go rogue" as a high schooler that's okay). We are aware that occasionally field sizes may require some flexibility here--please contact us if this is something that needs resolved.

THESE RESTRICTIONS APPLY TO EVERY SITE, NOT JUST THE MAIN SITE.
There was some talk of Illinois's NASAT team playing the UIUC site. Would such a team fall into one of these categories, and would it be allowed to play?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:43 am
by Cheynem
I'll talk about this with the other editors. I think we would encourage high schools to play with high schools if possible, but we are willing to be somewhat flexible.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 am
by Irreligion in Bangladesh
Cheynem wrote:I'll talk about this with the other editors. I think we would encourage high schools to play with high schools if possible, but we are willing to be somewhat flexible.
FYI (if you didn't already know), a recent IHSA ruling has rendered it illegal for high school teams to play college tournaments against college players if they have any assistance from their school (i.e. their coach can't drive them and their school can't pay the entry fee).

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:09 pm
by Cheynem
Right, we obviously want to be flexible regarding these restrictions.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:23 pm
by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill
Welp, we can't actually host this.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:24 pm
by Cheynem
I heard rumors about MIT and Bellarmine possibly being interested in mirroring. Anyone want to confirm or deny?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:12 pm
by i never see pigeons in wheeling
I believe that it was actually Berkeley who wanted to host on 3/31. I never heard anything about Bellarmine potentially hosting MUT.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:39 pm
by Cheynem
My mistake, probably.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:07 am
by nadph
That was me tentatively expressing interest if a Berkeley mirror fell through, and didn't have any official Bellarmine support. Sorry about the confusion, Mike. Has a Berkeley mirror been confirmed as of yet?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:53 pm
by Important Bird Area
Not yet.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:39 pm
by eliza.grames
I didn't hear anything about a Berkeley mirror before now, so Claremont College will be hosting a mirror on April 14, which they just confirmed.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:34 pm
by nadph
eliza.grames wrote:I didn't hear anything about a Berkeley mirror before now, so Claremont College will be hosting a mirror on April 14, which they just confirmed.
I'm sorry for continuing to pester you about this, but does this preclude a northern California mirror? Given the number of teams in the Bay Area who might have difficulty traveling, it might make sense to split California into separate regions for this and other "easier" tournaments.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:36 pm
by Cheynem
I can't speak for Eliza, but I certainly don't see any problem with more mirrors because like noted capitalist tool Michael Arnold, I like money. And as you point out, California is quite a big region.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:02 pm
by eliza.grames
Claremont says that it is okay if there are both southern and northern California mirrors, so if someone in the Bay Area wants to host that is fine.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:20 pm
by eliza.grames
eliza.grames wrote:Logistics: Details to follow in a few months.
See Mike Cheyne's post about the Minnesota site for this information.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:31 pm
by sephirothrr
Is there any word on when this set will be cleared?

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:36 pm
by Cheynem
There are still mirrors in the Northwest, MIT, and Valencia, plus an English mirror. Probably at the end of April. Any feedback should be sent to me or the other editors.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:50 am
by Kyle
Here are stats from the Warwick mirror: http://hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/990/stats/all/

I wasn't there, so I can't explain them to you.

EDIT -- Oh, since it is not clear from the stats, I should specify that Oxford A, the team with the third-best record, won the tournament. Manchester, the team with the fourth-best record, was second.

Re: 2012 Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament (MUT)

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:08 pm
by Edmund
I was there; the format was very confusing since it involved an unnecessary bracket and re-bracket and there were also semi-finals. This still doesn't really make sense of the stats.