Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

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Cheynem
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Cheynem »

I haven't received any other ballots in a while and since the top 25 are pretty set, I figured I should just post the results. The way I tallied scores was to assign 25 points for a ranking of "1," 24 points for a ranking of "2," and etc.

RESULTS

1. Matt Bollinger, Virginia (466)
2. Eric Mukherjee, Penn (465)--technically, Matt and Eric tied, but one ballot only ranked two people (Matt first, then Eric), so I figured it was a good way to break the tie.
3. Chris Ray, Maryland (416)
4. Matt Jackson, Yale (412)
5. Ike Jose, Illinois (395)
6. Andrew Hart, Minnesota (370)
7. Auroni Gupta, UCSD (348)--note, Auroni was not ranked by Marshall for lack of data
8. John Lawrence, Yale (342)
9. Dallas Simons, Harvard (298)
10. Will Nediger, Michigan (294)
11. Ted Gioia, Harvard (292)
12. Kurtis Droge, Michigan (247) and Evan Adams, Virginia (247)
14. Will Butler, Georgia Tech (240)--note, Will was not ranked by Marshall for lack of data
15. Guy Tabachnick, Brown (208)
16. Trevor Davis, Carnegie Mellon (161)
17. Kevin Koai, Yale (133)
18. Marshall Steinbaum, Chicago (114)
19. Sam Bailey, Chicago (108)--note, many voters did not rank Sam, presumably because he didn't play either nationals
20. Henry Gorman, Rice (105)
21. Mike Cheyne, Minnesota (85)
22. Neil Gurram, MIT (81)
23. Libo Zeng, Michigan (66)
24. Michael Arnold, Columbia (59)
25. Stephen Liu, Harvard (51)

Also Receiving Votes: Tommy Casalaspi (37), Doug Graebner (34), Rafael Krichvesky (31), Arun Chonai (22), Charles Hang (10), Jasper Lee (8), SteveJon Guth (7), Daichi Ueda (7), Ashvin Srivatsa (5), Billy Busse (4), Dwight Wynne (4), Greg Baboukis (2), David Seal (2), Charles Tian (1), Saajid Moyen (1)

Voters: Dan Puma, David Seal, Tommy Casalaspi, Andrew Hart, Marshall Steinbaum, Michael Arnold, Matt Bollinger, Bruce Arthur, Jerry Vinokurov, Eric Mukherjee, Saajid Moyen, Jarret Greene, Stephen Liu, Matt Hayes, John Lawrence, Auroni Gupta, Matt Jackson, Daniel Hothem, Ryan Dillon, Libo Zeng

Maybe I'll post full ballots at some point. Not now.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by AKKOLADE »

Slate article Andrew Hart 6th

edit: typing speed
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by grapesmoker »

Cheynem wrote:Maybe I'll post full ballots at some point. Not now.
Please don't ever do this. I'm not embarrassed by my rankings or anything, but the last thing we need is endless bullshit drama due to people being offended over how they were ranked. Ballots should remain private.
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Cheynem
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Cheynem »

What I find interesting about this year is that while there are a lot of the usual contenders and wunderkinds (your Mukherjees, Harts, Rays, etc.), there are some fascinating subcategories of players.

The first is the elite player that somewhat emerged very quickly (i.e., in the last 2-3 years, going from unknown or an "okay" player to a MVP type player). In the summer of 2009, I met John Lawrence and Matt Bollinger at VCU Open. I thought Matt was an okay high schooler who seemed like the type of kid who would get interested in other things and recede from quizbowl early. I had no idea who John was. Both are now great players with lockdown type knowledge in many categories.

The other is the category of players who have been playing 3-4 years, are seniors or advanced grad students, and finally cracked the top 25. These guys lacked the "ascendant" or "stunning surprise" factor of the first category, but have been quietly getting better and are now unquestionably valuable members of teams that made strong playoff runs. These would include Sam Bailey, Libo Zeng, Marshall Steinbaum, Will Nediger (who obviously benefited from getting a higher profile), and myself.

The lessons I take away from this are:

1. It is possible (although it requires a lot of hard work) to very significantly improve, enough to become a MVP type player in a relatively short period of time.

2. Even if you don't dramatically improve in that short period, working hard, putting effort in, and being a good team player ultimately results in becoming a valuable, excellent player.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Cheynem »

I will now compare each Top 25 player to a professional wrestler. While I know a lot about Divas/Knockouts/female wrestlers and could come up with reasonable comparisons, I will refrain from doing so for perceived mockery reasons.

1. Matt Bollinger: CM Punk. While I do not know if Matt has a straight edge persona, CM Punk and Matt both suddenly exploded in relevance/popularity. Punk has a sort of genre savvy-ness combined with a sometimes overbearing self-confidence and occasionally going berzerk--Matt Bollinger has that I would say.

2. Eric Mukherjee: Brock Lesnar. Unstoppable when he gets rolling. His days at Brown/Penn are kind of like Brock's WWE/MMA split. Lesnar's recent return to WWE to attack John Cena would have some resonance if perhaps Eric can upset Yale.

3. Chris Ray: Triple H. Triple H has been around forever and kind of has changed from a crazy, "anything goes" type character to a more restrained executive type role now, all the while being a sort of popular heel. Chris fits this bill.

4. Matt Jackson: John Cena. Undeniably earnest, undeniably talented, but can sometimes polarize an audience, as his super-earnestness for good quizbowl doesn't always find receptive audiences.

5. Ike Jose: Santino Marella. Easy to make fun of Ike and sometimes he deserves it, but Santino came in second at the World Heavyweight Championship and is the winner of the U.S. Championship. Ike took second at ICT and won UG at ACF Nats. I like Ike, but losing to him sometimes feels like falling victim to Santino's Cobra.

6. Andrew Hart: Alberto Del Rio. Del Rio shows off his limo, Andrew shows off his watch. Del Rio has a gigantic ego, Bruce claims Andrew has a gigantic ego. But you already know that!

7. Auroni Gupta: The Miz. Not as arrogant as the Miz. Kind of gets a lot of crap though, like the Miz. Charles Martin is to Auroni as that angry looking girl is to the Miz. http://i55.tinypic.com/2yvo2h4.jpg

8. John Lawrence: Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson. Kind of emerged as a major player recently, just as John took a while to break into the circuit as an all-star. Daniel Bryan is considered one of the best technical wrestlers in the game, John is one of the best pure knowledge players I've seen.

9. Dallas Simons: A.J. Styles. Southerner--Styles as a heel is even pretty likeable, and everyone loves Dallas.

10. Will Nediger: Bret Hart. A great Canadian. Perhaps the 2008 DII ICT featured a Montreal Screwjob.

11. Ted Gioia: Ted DiBiase Jr. 1. They both have the name Ted. 2. They both have a famous relative named Ted. 3. They both could be considered upper class. 4. They both did their best work with partners--Gioia with Dallas/Andy, DiBiase Jr. with Cody Rhodes.

12. Kurtis Droge: Sting. Generally a face, prominent, but has never played for WWF/WWE. Kurtis is generally a face, and has not been a part of the ACF industry.

12. Evan Adams: David Otunga. David is a lawyer who is overshadowed by the people in his life, such as his boss John Laurinaitis and his wife, Jennifer Hudson. Evan is a law student sometimes overshadowed by other Virginians such as Matt Weiner and Matt Bollinger.

14. Will Butler: Kurt Angle. Will had a great HS career, a good undergrad career, and is now a grad student. Kurt Angle won a gold medal, had success at WWE, and is now at TNA.

15. Guy Tabachnick: Chris Jericho. Jericho was a man of many words, such as "ass clown." He also hosted a TV game show. Guy has appeared on a TV game show and is also a man of many (cross)words.

16. Trevor Davis: Randy Savage. Surely Trevor Davis would endorse Slim Jims.

17. Kevin Koai: Goldberg. TWO ACF NATIONAL TITLES IN A ROW. WHO'S NEXT?!!!

18. Marshall Steinbaum: William Regal. Not always popular and has an English connection.

19. Sam Bailey: Edge. The "Rated R Superstar." 'Nuff said.

20. Henry Gorman: Jack Swagger. Swagger was an All-American (real) college wrestler before becoming pro. Henry has won big titles as a high schooler.

21. Mike Cheyne: Zack Ryder. Internet celebrity.

22. Neil Gurram: Scott Steiner. Um...they're both from Detroit. Hopefully Neil can be as entertaining as the Steiners.

23. Libo Zeng: Rey Mysterio Jr. The biggest little man in quizbowl.

24. Michael Arnold: John Bradshaw Layfield. Someone who trolls people with his ultra capitalist personality.

25. Stephen Liu: Randy Orton. Orton won a title at 24, Stephen won as a freshman. Stephen tangled with Matt Weiner this year about HFT, Orton billed himself as the "Legend Killer" and took on guys like Mick Foley.
Mike Cheyne
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by AKKOLADE »

Cheynem wrote:22. Neil Gurram: Scott Steiner. Um...they're both from Detroit. Hopefully Neil can be as entertaining as the Steiners.
HUH
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by AKKOLADE »

Who's the Diablo Jr. of quizbowl?
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Frater Taciturnus
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Frater Taciturnus »

Fred wrote:Who's the Diablo Jr. of quizbowl?
I mean it kind of has to be Matt Bollinger, since he is the best today.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Cody »

Frater Taciturnus wrote:
Fred wrote:Who's the Diablo Jr. of quizbowl?
I mean it kind of has to be Matt Bollinger, since he is the best today.
It's clearly Andrew Yaphe because not only is he the best today (yarggh!), but they also look a lot alike!
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by marnold »

marnold wrote:- Joshua Alman. He's being underrated as it is because he only played one nationals and sort of appeared as a bolt from the blue there. But guys: he went 35/10/0 over the course of the ICT. That shit cray.
Lol, what a sap!

EDIT: Maybe I should have been more suspicious when he got the round-winning question against us on a fucking insane Dixie Chicks power. Learn from me, potential future rubes: every performance that looks suspicious (every one) is probably from cheating somehow.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Tees-Exe Line »

marnold wrote:
marnold wrote:- Joshua Alman. He's being underrated as it is because he only played one nationals and sort of appeared as a bolt from the blue there. But guys: he went 35/10/0 over the course of the ICT. That shit cray.
Lol, what a sap!

EDIT: Maybe I should have been more suspicious when he got the round-winning question against us on a fucking insane Dixie Chicks power. Learn from me, potential future rubes: every performance that looks suspicious (every one) is probably from cheating somehow.
As opposed to the fucking insane but not quite game-winning Dixie Chicks power I got against Ray, which I assure you was not based on cheating in the slightest. Would have been sweeter to score that on you, but then I got what I wanted a round or three earlier.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Magister Ludi »

Magister Ludi wrote:I think there are a few common fallacies that people fall into when ranking individual players in this poll, which people should be aware of:

1. Ignoring the regular season in rankings. One should remember that the poll is meant to determine who played the best over the entire year. If you ranked players solely based on how they did at Nationals there wouldn't be any need for a poll.

2. Overvaluing how players perform individually against your team. It's easy for someone like Eric to overvalue a humanities player since they play well against his team, or for me to undervalue someone like Evan Adams because he does not play as well against me as he does against other teams.

3. Viewing ppg in the upper playoff bracket at ACF Nats as the primary ranking metric. First of all, you don't want to shaft people such as Auroni Gupta for not getting a chance to play ACF. Secondly, people need to evaluate ppg at ACF critically. There is a big difference between players such as Kevin Koai putting up 20 ppg that they will convert in almost every room and Ike Jose scoring 60 ppg because he gets to rack up high scores when he plays weak humanities teams. For example, Kevin maintained a 26 ppg at CO when playing with top players, but Ike dropped to 17 ppg as the lowest scoring member of the team when he played with other good people at VCU Open.

4. Letting final placement at Nationals overly inflate individual player’s ranking. It’s important to remember that the difference between third and fifth or fourth and sixth in these tournaments often comes down to small margins like buzzer races that don’t reflect meaningful differences between players' skill levels. I have a feeling this year that if Harvard had won one more buzzer race in our very close games against UVA or Illinois in the playoffs at ACF--and accordingly had finished tied for third instead of fifth--Dallas and I would finish a couple spots higher in this poll, though that would not mean we were any better players.

5. Regional Bias. This issue especially arises at the back end of people's polls as they tend just to pick people they see a lot at their local tournaments for the last few spots. For example, I might be inclined to chose players such as Raphael from Columbia, Miriam Nussbaum, or Spencer Weinrich (who are all very good players) when picking the last few spots on my poll since I've personally seen them make good buzzes numerous times throughout the season. But it's important to spend a little time looking at the stats for players who you don't see regularly to make sure you don't shaft less conspicuous players like Matt Menard or Jasper Lee who have had very good seasons but don't post a lot.
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Cheynem »

You never finished your incomplete sentence from point 3!
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Re: Player Poll 2011-2012 Season

Post by Magister Ludi »

Cheynem wrote:You never finished your incomplete sentence from point 3!
Yeah, sorry to accidentally resurrect this thread. I was rereading it to see if there would be any point for me to make a few observations in the current player poll thread, or if any attempt on my part to convince the poll's voters to consider the slightest nuance when casting their ballots is doomed from the start. For no rational reason, I decided to fix a couple sloppy grammatical errors in my original post, but just ended up creating a fresh formatting fuckup.
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