ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
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ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
This year’s Chicago Open History side tournament, Urgent Call for Unity, will be held on Sunday of the weekend of CO at the University of Chicago. The motivating philosophy for this tournament is to enable stiff, enjoyable competition between the many excellent history quizbowlers, active and “retired.” Packet submission is voluntary, but I hope that most if not all teams submit a packet. This is an opportunity to engage in combat on a battlefield of your own design, so please use your imagination while at the same time closely adhering to the standards of good question-writing. I would like to create an event that represents quizbowl’s collective fantasy about what a history tournament could be.
This event will be free for any team that submits a packet and $20 for a team that does not (or whose packet is essentially unusable--in which case I will let you know before the tournament and give you the chance to edit).
Format
Teams will consist of two players. The format for this tournament is tentatively going to be ten rounds of 16/16, followed by a one-game final if no team clears the field by more than two games. Any tiebreaker to enter the final will first regard teams’ records in their head-to-head matches, and if that is insufficient (or the tournament is bracketed), points per bonus.
UPDATE: July 18th, 2013
The tournament will consist of two brackets each with nine teams. There will be a complete round robin within each bracket, followed by a one-round final between the winners of each bracket. Any tie to get into the final between teams with identical records will be broken by PPB.
** As tournament director, I reserve the right to combine teams by fiat if that ends up the only way to accommodate everyone who wants play and satisfy staffing, room, and time constraints. I certainly hope that won’t be necessary.
Distribution
Submitted packets should adhere to the following 20/20 distribution, which will be paired down to 16/16 for the final packets.
5/5 American
2/2 British/Commonwealth
5/5 Continental European (post-500 AD)
4/4 World (post-500 AD)
2/2 Ancient/Classical (any geography before 500 AD)
1/1 Social or Economic History
1/1 Historiography/Science History/Unclassified/Your Choice
Sub-distributions will not be rigidly prescribed, but please vary the time period and subject matter within these headings. Military history should comprise no more than 4/4 of your submitted packet.
Packet Submission
The packet submission deadline is June 9, 2013. (Or, rather, before I arrive at my desk the morning of Monday, June 10, which will happen around 9 AM CDT.) It would be a kind gesture if you notified me in advance of that date if your team plans to submit a packet. As I wrote above, submission is greatly encouraged.
Collaboration
If you are unable to attend the tournament but wish to contribute questions, please email me to discuss. Remuneration will be a suitable percentage of the tournament’s gross revenue based on the number of your questions used. Any help staffing the tournament would be greatly appreciated, particularly from those planning to attend the trash tournament the same day but not play this.
My email address is msteinbaum at gmail if you wish to register or if you have any questions, or of course you may post in this thread.
This event will be free for any team that submits a packet and $20 for a team that does not (or whose packet is essentially unusable--in which case I will let you know before the tournament and give you the chance to edit).
Format
Teams will consist of two players. The format for this tournament is tentatively going to be ten rounds of 16/16, followed by a one-game final if no team clears the field by more than two games. Any tiebreaker to enter the final will first regard teams’ records in their head-to-head matches, and if that is insufficient (or the tournament is bracketed), points per bonus.
UPDATE: July 18th, 2013
The tournament will consist of two brackets each with nine teams. There will be a complete round robin within each bracket, followed by a one-round final between the winners of each bracket. Any tie to get into the final between teams with identical records will be broken by PPB.
** As tournament director, I reserve the right to combine teams by fiat if that ends up the only way to accommodate everyone who wants play and satisfy staffing, room, and time constraints. I certainly hope that won’t be necessary.
Distribution
Submitted packets should adhere to the following 20/20 distribution, which will be paired down to 16/16 for the final packets.
5/5 American
2/2 British/Commonwealth
5/5 Continental European (post-500 AD)
4/4 World (post-500 AD)
2/2 Ancient/Classical (any geography before 500 AD)
1/1 Social or Economic History
1/1 Historiography/Science History/Unclassified/Your Choice
Sub-distributions will not be rigidly prescribed, but please vary the time period and subject matter within these headings. Military history should comprise no more than 4/4 of your submitted packet.
Packet Submission
The packet submission deadline is June 9, 2013. (Or, rather, before I arrive at my desk the morning of Monday, June 10, which will happen around 9 AM CDT.) It would be a kind gesture if you notified me in advance of that date if your team plans to submit a packet. As I wrote above, submission is greatly encouraged.
Collaboration
If you are unable to attend the tournament but wish to contribute questions, please email me to discuss. Remuneration will be a suitable percentage of the tournament’s gross revenue based on the number of your questions used. Any help staffing the tournament would be greatly appreciated, particularly from those planning to attend the trash tournament the same day but not play this.
My email address is msteinbaum at gmail if you wish to register or if you have any questions, or of course you may post in this thread.
Last edited by Tees-Exe Line on Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:12 am, edited 6 times in total.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
- Tees-Exe Line
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Running Field
Gupta + Cheyne
Nediger + O'Rourke
Alston, Jing, and Hothem
Dickinson + Madden
Nutter + Rosenberg
Kling + Tannenbaum
Liu + Weiner
Bollinger + Ray
Droge + Hankin
Westbrook + Lafer
Graebner + Tian
Mukherjee + Bailey
Haala + Davis
Larsen + Luo
Hang + Gerten
Bentley + Byrne
Hart + Adams + Coates
Hoppes + Aggarwal
Parks
Shaw
Staff
Ahmad Ragab
Nolan Esser
Bryan Berend
Rob Carson
Gupta + Cheyne
Nediger + O'Rourke
Alston, Jing, and Hothem
Dickinson + Madden
Nutter + Rosenberg
Kling + Tannenbaum
Liu + Weiner
Bollinger + Ray
Droge + Hankin
Westbrook + Lafer
Graebner + Tian
Mukherjee + Bailey
Haala + Davis
Larsen + Luo
Hang + Gerten
Bentley + Byrne
Hart + Adams + Coates
Hoppes + Aggarwal
Parks
Shaw
Staff
Ahmad Ragab
Nolan Esser
Bryan Berend
Rob Carson
Last edited by Tees-Exe Line on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:38 am, edited 45 times in total.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Head to head is a silly way to break ties.
I'm playing this, despite the ridiculous 2/2 ancient history requirement. I hope Marshall doesn't allow any video game or myth history into this.
Edit: Playing with Mrs. Gupta.
I'm playing this, despite the ridiculous 2/2 ancient history requirement. I hope Marshall doesn't allow any video game or myth history into this.
Edit: Playing with Mrs. Gupta.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll play this tournament.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
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President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I plan on playing this, and presumably will write a packet with my eventual teammate.
Joe Nutter
PACE Emeritus
Michigan State University '14
Walnut Hills High School '11
PACE Emeritus
Michigan State University '14
Walnut Hills High School '11
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Yes, let's do this.Cheynem wrote:Head to head is a silly way to break ties.
I'm playing this, despite the ridiculous 2/2 ancient history requirement. I hope Marshall doesn't allow any video game or myth history into this.
I think Auroni said he wanted to partner--confirm? If not, then I am looking for teammates who know non American things.
(also don't use a head-to-head tiebreaker pleeeease.)
Auroni Gupta (she/her)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll play this, assuming there's someone who doesn't mind teaming up with someone who doesn't know history.
Will Nediger
-Proud member of the cult of Urcuchillay-
University of Western Ontario 2011, University of Michigan 2017
Member emeritus, ACF
Writer, NAQT
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
As this is a quizbowl tournament, I will play it; however, in lieu of a packet, I will be mailing Marshall a used copy of Dynasty Warriors 3 for Playstation 2.
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??, BHSU forever
Member, ACF
Member emeritus, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll write a packet with someone for this, but I have no idea if I'll be at CO
Carsten Gehring
Wayzata HS '08 | Carleton College '12 | Denver Publishing Institute '12
Wayzata HS '08 | Carleton College '12 | Denver Publishing Institute '12
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'm not expecting to win and want to play this. Want to team up?women, fire and dangerous things wrote:I'll play this, assuming there's someone who doesn't mind teaming up with someone who doesn't know history.
Jacob O'Rourke
Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present)
Formerly: AQBL Administrator (2020-2023); HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017); Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10
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Washington (MO) HS Assistant Coach (2014-Present); MOQBA Secretary (2015-Present)
Formerly: AQBL Administrator (2020-2023); HSAPQ Host Contact; NASAT Outreach Coordinator (2016 and 2017); Kirksville HS Assistant Coach (2012-2014); Truman State '14; and Pacific High (MO) '10
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Sure!The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:I'm not expecting to win and want to play this. Want to team up?women, fire and dangerous things wrote:I'll play this, assuming there's someone who doesn't mind teaming up with someone who doesn't know history.
Will Nediger
-Proud member of the cult of Urcuchillay-
University of Western Ontario 2011, University of Michigan 2017
Member emeritus, ACF
Writer, NAQT
-Proud member of the cult of Urcuchillay-
University of Western Ontario 2011, University of Michigan 2017
Member emeritus, ACF
Writer, NAQT
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll play this.
p.s. Don't listen to Weiner about points per bonus. It's the bees knees. Do listen to Weiner about head to head tiebreakers - no, scratch that, listen to Cheyne who said the same thing. Head to head tiebreakers are the bees balls.
p.s. Don't listen to Weiner about points per bonus. It's the bees knees. Do listen to Weiner about head to head tiebreakers - no, scratch that, listen to Cheyne who said the same thing. Head to head tiebreakers are the bees balls.
Ryan Westbrook, no affiliation whatsoever.
I am pure energy...and as ancient as the cosmos. Feeble creatures, GO!
Left here since birth...forgotten in the river of time...I've had an eternity to...ponder the meaning of things...and now I have an answer!
I am pure energy...and as ancient as the cosmos. Feeble creatures, GO!
Left here since birth...forgotten in the river of time...I've had an eternity to...ponder the meaning of things...and now I have an answer!
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I will play. I know some history and would like to make a run at 3rd place.
Eric Mukherjee, MD PhD
Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll play this. Marshall, I hope you enjoy my slew of tossups written by re-enacting the tactical masterstrokes of Alp Arslan with toy soldiers.
Aaron Rosenberg
Langley HS '07 / Brown '11 / Illinois '14
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'm down to play this. Also, Matt is right: h2h is a terrible tiebreaker (double-values a single game) and if you have a round-robin situation where everyone plays everyone else, you should use PPG (since the quality of opposition is the same for everyone).
Jerry Vinokurov
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
presently: John Jay College Economics
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
presently: John Jay College Economics
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I plan on submitting a packet along with Kirk Jing from Dartmouth. Hopefully I'll also be playing this tournament with him.
Will Alston
Dartmouth College '16
Columbia Business School '21
Dartmouth College '16
Columbia Business School '21
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
If I make it to CO - which seems likely - I'd like to play this. Whether I need to find a chum also unattached to a team (who would do well to know more history than me) depends on who of my compatriots I can persuade to join the venture. I'll have a clearer idea on that point by April/May.
I'd like to write but the 5/5 US history I generate will be terrible. Any thoughts on remedying that?
I'd like to write but the 5/5 US history I generate will be terrible. Any thoughts on remedying that?
Edmund Dickinson
UK Quizbowl
University of Oxford '11
UK Quizbowl
University of Oxford '11
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I'll be playing this.
Charles Hang
Francis Howell Central '09
St. Charles Community College '14
Washington University in St. Louis '19, 2x (President, 2017-19)
Owner, Olympia Academic Competition Questions, LLC
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Well, aside from the obvious "learn some US history" (which I assure you is quite interesting and worth doing), you might be able to convince an American teammate that what they really need is a teammate who knows the Anglo Saxon Chronicle intimately. But seriously, I encourage you and anyone else to write in areas where you may not be completely comfortable.Edmund wrote:I'd like to write but the 5/5 US history I generate will be terrible. Any thoughts on remedying that?
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
I would like to play this. I know only what I know (which is to say, ancient history and a mishmash of other things) and can provide you only limited chance for success in this tournament.
Last edited by rylltraka on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mik Larsen
USC '08, UCLA '14
USC '08, UCLA '14
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Please feel free to debate the merits of various tiebreakers over here.
Susan
UChicago alum (AB 2003, PhD 2009)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (Summer 2013)
Aaron Rosenberg and I are playing this.
Joe Nutter
PACE Emeritus
Michigan State University '14
Walnut Hills High School '11
PACE Emeritus
Michigan State University '14
Walnut Hills High School '11
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I'll play. I know only a very modest smattering of American history, British/European history, Jewish/Israeli history, and some historiography of what I studied in college.
I'll be happy if I break 10 ppg, but I'm also hoping to get a couple of sick first line buzzes. Pick me if you have similar plans.
EDIT: Kurtis Droge is letting me ride his coattails.
I'll be happy if I break 10 ppg, but I'm also hoping to get a couple of sick first line buzzes. Pick me if you have similar plans.
EDIT: Kurtis Droge is letting me ride his coattails.
Last edited by Beast Mode on Mon May 06, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I'm looking for a teammate. I know European history pretty well but have spotty coverage elsewhere.
Stephen Liu
Torrey Pines '10
Harvard '14
Stanford '17
Torrey Pines '10
Harvard '14
Stanford '17
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I'd like to play. Can write questions. I now know Japanese history.
Ray Luo, UCLA.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
So is this tournament after the trash tournament on Sunday?
Mike Bentley
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Since I will be at CO Sunday for trash, I will staff this.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Yes, that is the plan. My understanding of the arrangement is that the trash tournament will be over by 2.00, immediately after which this will commence. Lunch for whoever wants it will be organized centrally so people don't disperse, and I hope to have many people cross-staff the tournament they're not playing in order to expedite matters.Mike Bentley wrote:So is this tournament after the trash tournament on Sunday?
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
How many rounds is the trash tournament? 2 PM seems like a super-ambitious finish time unless we're doing like 7 rounds.Tees-Exe Line wrote:Yes, that is the plan. My understanding of the arrangement is that the trash tournament will be over by 2.00, immediately after which this will commence. Lunch for whoever wants it will be organized centrally so people don't disperse, and I hope to have many people cross-staff the tournament they're not playing in order to expedite matters.Mike Bentley wrote:So is this tournament after the trash tournament on Sunday?
Mike Bentley
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I will be playing this tournament with Stephen Liu.
Matt Weiner
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I am running Urgent Call as ten rounds of 16/16 plus finals, designed to be done in a brisk six hours. I had hoped the trash tournament would operate the same way.Mike Bentley wrote:How many rounds is the trash tournament? 2 PM seems like a super-ambitious finish time unless we're doing like 7 rounds.Tees-Exe Line wrote:Yes, that is the plan. My understanding of the arrangement is that the trash tournament will be over by 2.00, immediately after which this will commence. Lunch for whoever wants it will be organized centrally so people don't disperse, and I hope to have many people cross-staff the tournament they're not playing in order to expedite matters.Mike Bentley wrote:So is this tournament after the trash tournament on Sunday?
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I...don't think the trash tournament is 16/16.
By which my point is even a speedily run tournament of 10 regular rounds (even assuming we don't eat lunch?)...I don't think we're finishing by 2. 3:00 is more likely, which means I think no matter how you slice it, this is a long day of quizbowl. PLAN TRAVEL ACCORDINGLY.
By which my point is even a speedily run tournament of 10 regular rounds (even assuming we don't eat lunch?)...I don't think we're finishing by 2. 3:00 is more likely, which means I think no matter how you slice it, this is a long day of quizbowl. PLAN TRAVEL ACCORDINGLY.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Well the alternative is obviously to run them concurrently. I applied for eighteen rooms total for CO weekend, so if that request is granted it would probably be feasible for space if not staff. Still, I'm pretty annoyed since I have conformed this tournament in every way with the ideal of two tournaments on CO Sunday. But since I am the one with the rooms....Cheynem wrote:I...don't think the trash tournament is 16/16.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Is it really that much of a pickle to start UUU a hour or so (two hours?) later than projected? If we order in food for lunch, that saves some time, and trash tournaments tend to go quickly with competent staffers. I just think 2:00 is a bit ambitious. I mean, even if we do start at 2 and your tournament is six hours, we're not getting out of here until 8 PM, so getting out at 9 or 10 PM isn't that much of a deal for people who are planning late departures anyway.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Well the problem is that we have a hard end-time of around 10 PM, at which time some faux quizbowler secretly in the pay of the campus police will rat on us and we'll get thrown out. That outcome was considered calamitous two years ago, and I'm not going to declare "sure, start this thing at 4.00" now when my gestures of compromise have thus far not been reciprocated. If they aren't, then this will begin at 9.00 AM in a location of my choosing.Cheynem wrote:Is it really that much of a pickle to start UUU a hour or so (two hours?) later than projected? If we order in food for lunch, that saves some time, and trash tournaments tend to go quickly with competent staffers. I just think 2:00 is a bit ambitious. I mean, even if we do start at 2 and your tournament is six hours, we're not getting out of here until 8 PM, so getting out at 9 or 10 PM isn't that much of a deal for people who are planning late departures anyway.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I guess I don't wish to speak for David, but I know obviously his tournament is not 16/16 nor is it just 10 rounds (as he proclaimed in his initial announcement in June 2012). I'm sure whoever runs this will start it as early as possible and run it as quickly as possible, but I'm confused as to what compromises you are expecting here.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Something along the lines you just named. Look--I imagine you are one of those most interested in making sure both of these tournaments happen and happen consecutively, not concurrently. So perhaps you'd be willing to broker a deal. I'm also interested in the same outcome, but I'm not going to come out now and say that this tournament can begin whenever. Everyone should already know that if they want to play the Sunday tournaments they should not fly out on Sunday. Beyond that we're looking for some accommodation that ensures both events happen in a way consistent with their guiding philosophies.Cheynem wrote:I guess I don't wish to speak for David, but I know obviously his tournament is not 16/16 nor is it just 10 rounds (as he proclaimed in his initial announcement in June 2012). I'm sure whoever runs this will start it as early as possible and run it as quickly as possible, but I'm confused as to what compromises you are expecting here.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
My ideas for a compromise (and I'll let David or whoever is TD'ing the trash thing speak more) would be:
-start the trash tournament early (8:00?) with a DROP DEAD start time, i.e. none of this "oh, Eric Mukherjee [HYPOTHETICAL NAME] is late, we'll wait 20 minutes." Il Duce Mike Bentley did a good job last year in making sure the tournament started on time.
-very short/possibly coordinated lunch time. Encourage ordering in food or coordinating food orders so lunch only takes like a half hour instead of a hour. People can get their own food or bring their own meals, but lunch is still only half a hour or whenever people finish eating.
-best possible staff/readers who cut down on the jibber jabbah. The best candidates would be excellent readers interested in history but not interested in trash.
-possibly (although I would oppose this) shortening the number of rounds for the trash tournament.
As a scholar of quizbowl history you are aware that this is somewhat similar to the Ted vs. History debate of last year in which the ruling was "more quizbowl is better, just run a quick, efficient day." Again, no matter how we slice things, this is a long day, so Sunday travel must be carefully planned here.
-start the trash tournament early (8:00?) with a DROP DEAD start time, i.e. none of this "oh, Eric Mukherjee [HYPOTHETICAL NAME] is late, we'll wait 20 minutes." Il Duce Mike Bentley did a good job last year in making sure the tournament started on time.
-very short/possibly coordinated lunch time. Encourage ordering in food or coordinating food orders so lunch only takes like a half hour instead of a hour. People can get their own food or bring their own meals, but lunch is still only half a hour or whenever people finish eating.
-best possible staff/readers who cut down on the jibber jabbah. The best candidates would be excellent readers interested in history but not interested in trash.
-possibly (although I would oppose this) shortening the number of rounds for the trash tournament.
As a scholar of quizbowl history you are aware that this is somewhat similar to the Ted vs. History debate of last year in which the ruling was "more quizbowl is better, just run a quick, efficient day." Again, no matter how we slice things, this is a long day, so Sunday travel must be carefully planned here.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Your first three items have already been agreed to by all parties, and I for one am happy to staff the trash tournament and encourage others to do the same. It was on that basis that I announced this tournament for Sunday of CO weekend, with a 2.00 PM start time.
I actually thought things ended up working out reasonably well last year, as much as could be expected since the equivalent debate played out essentially the week of the tournament. I hope that we can improve on that by having the debate now, and I want Urgent Call to be less amorphous than that history tournament was while at the same time including bonuses, which is why I've agreed to tight parameters. I hope that trash does the same.
I actually thought things ended up working out reasonably well last year, as much as could be expected since the equivalent debate played out essentially the week of the tournament. I hope that we can improve on that by having the debate now, and I want Urgent Call to be less amorphous than that history tournament was while at the same time including bonuses, which is why I've agreed to tight parameters. I hope that trash does the same.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I won't be at CO, and thus won't be running the trash tournament, but I am writing for it, so I am qualified to speak to its length, at least. We are writing ten rounds of 20/20 plus finals.
I can't speak to how those at the tournament would want it to be run, but I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be able to be a drop-dead start time, competent staff, and some sort of efficient lunch coordination.
ETA: From my own experience, I don't see why both tournaments wouldn't fit on Sunday, as long as there is coordination and efficiency, and as someone who has a vested interest in seeing CO Trash run at its full potential, and an academic interest in seeing a strong history tournament, I would urge all potential participants to, as Mike Cheyne has already done, plan their travel accordingly, and be punctual and organized on the day of the tournament.
I can't speak to how those at the tournament would want it to be run, but I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be able to be a drop-dead start time, competent staff, and some sort of efficient lunch coordination.
ETA: From my own experience, I don't see why both tournaments wouldn't fit on Sunday, as long as there is coordination and efficiency, and as someone who has a vested interest in seeing CO Trash run at its full potential, and an academic interest in seeing a strong history tournament, I would urge all potential participants to, as Mike Cheyne has already done, plan their travel accordingly, and be punctual and organized on the day of the tournament.
Brian McNamara
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
And I guess I'll just add that I don't think anyone writing the trash tournament has an issue with following "tight parameters". Rather, looking back at previous discussion over this, I think there's simply concern that finishing 10 rounds of 20/20 plus a possible finals between 8:00 and 2:00 may be a bit unfeasible. I do think it's prudent to have this conversation now, however.
Brian McNamara
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Oh, it's just ten rounds? I think while 2:00 is a little unfeasible, 3:00 definitely isn't provided we start early enough, have a quick lunch, and move quickly. That means we're out of there at 9:00 (unless dinner...?).
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
This is correct. While we had initially planned to write fifteen rounds of 20/20, when this was made into CO Trash, we scaled back to ten rounds plus finals, as this has traditionally been the format for CO Trash. So, we will be producing twelve packets of 20/20 total, with ten of those allotted for a round robin, and two intended to serve as finals packets, if necessary.Cheynem wrote:Oh, it's just ten rounds? I think while 2:00 is a little unfeasible, 3:00 definitely isn't provided we start early enough, have a quick lunch, and move quickly. That means we're out of there at 9:00 (unless dinner...?).
Brian McNamara
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20
- Kilroy Was Here
- Rikku
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I'll play this with anyone who wants to play with a high schooler who can guarantee a ppg that isn't negative.
Collin Parks
University of Michigan '18
"Aragorn was the famed king of Gondor, while the Iberian kingdom was Aragon. Both parties were aware of this coincidence: we have a journal entry from Aragorn that expresses his anger at receiving mail meant for King Peter IV of Aragon for the umpteenth time."~ CommodoreCoCo
University of Michigan '18
"Aragorn was the famed king of Gondor, while the Iberian kingdom was Aragon. Both parties were aware of this coincidence: we have a journal entry from Aragorn that expresses his anger at receiving mail meant for King Peter IV of Aragon for the umpteenth time."~ CommodoreCoCo
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
It would be great if everyone who's planning to submit a packet for this could email me (even if you've already indicated that in this thread or elsewhere). Not doing so does not preclude you from writing a packet, of course, but it would be much appreciated. I'm at msteinbaum at gmail.
Let me say that after a somewhat distressing conversation last evening, I'm seriously considering raising the price for non-packet-submitters.
Let me say that after a somewhat distressing conversation last evening, I'm seriously considering raising the price for non-packet-submitters.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
I'd like to play this. I suck at history, but I probably suck less than usual at Marshall history.
Alex Gerten
Wisconsin '12
Columbia '16
Wisconsin '12
Columbia '16
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Question: is the packet submission deadline completely set or not? I'd like to do a packet, but my schedule is way more conducive to writing high quality questions between June 9 and June 18 than between now and June 9. Is there any leeway there?
David Madden
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
Adviser and former head coach for Team USA at the International Geography Olympiad
Ridgewood (NJ) '99, Princeton '03
Founder and Director: International History Bee and Bowl, National History Bee and Bowl (High School Division), International History Olympiad, United States Geography Olympiad, US History Bee, US Academic Bee and Bowl, National Humanities Bee, National Science Bee, International Academic Bowl.
Adviser and former head coach for Team USA at the International Geography Olympiad
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
The packet submission deadline is set, yes. If it's the difference between your team submitting a quality packet and not submitting one, please contact me privately with a date you propose to finish by.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
- Tees-Exe Line
- Tidus
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:02 pm
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
This is a reminder that the packet submission deadline is this Sunday, June 9th.
Marshall I. Steinbaum
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
Oxford University (2002-2005)
University of Chicago (2008-2014)
University of Utah (2019- )
Get in the elevator.
- Sima Guang Hater
- Auron
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Urgent Call for Unity (July 21, 2013)
Sam Bailey and I will be playing this together
Eric Mukherjee, MD PhD
Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
Instructor/Attending Physician/Postdoctoral Fellow, Vanderbilt University Medical Center
Coach, University School of Nashville
“The next generation will always surpass the previous one. It’s one of the never-ending cycles in life.”
Support the Stevens-Johnson Syndrome Foundation
Brown 2009, Penn Med 2018
Instructor/Attending Physician/Postdoctoral Fellow, Vanderbilt University Medical Center
Coach, University School of Nashville
“The next generation will always surpass the previous one. It’s one of the never-ending cycles in life.”
Support the Stevens-Johnson Syndrome Foundation