Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

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Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:23 pm

Hello all,
I'm happy to announce that I'll be editing the 2013 Chicago Open, to be held again at the University of Chicago on July 20-21, 2013.

Guidelines
Packets should follow the regular ACF distribution for non-Nationals events. Please format it like you would an ACF packet, too.

As always, Chicago Open is a hard tournament where you get to submit questions on answers you would not normally write on. This is all well and good and what the tournament is all about. However, I would like you to make sure not to include so many very difficult answers that your packet becomes unplayable for all but the best teams--that means including a solid range of answerlines, some very easy, in addition to those tossups you've been waiting to write all year. I'd also ask you not to include many questions on that thing that happens to come up at every hard tournament, but to try to find things that have been somewhat overlooked, either by quizbowl or just by this past season. Within reason, creativity in answerlines will be very much appreciated. I'd like this tournament to be hard, but not in a stupid way, and certainly giving appropriate space to the basic material.

Packet Deadlines
Base Fee: $120
Packet submitted by April 29: -$100
Packet submitted by May 12: -$50
Packet submitted by May 26: -$25
Packet submitted by June 9: no penalty
Packet submitted by June 23: +$25
Packet submitted by June 30: +$50

Packets should be sent to chicagoopen2013@gmail.com. For clarity, all packet deadlines are for before I check my email that given Monday. After June 30, I'll be tacking $10 per day onto your fee, and you'll need to apply for divine grace to play the tournament. The moral of this story, of course, is that you should submit your packet as early as possible, both for your own benefit and for the good of the tournament.

Help Wanted
I still need, at the bare minimum, a dedicated science editor for this tournament to happen. Please email me at the Chicago Open account if you're interested in the gig, or post here to railroad somebody into doing it. Also email me if you're interested in editing any other portion of the distribution, since I'd appreciate a couple of helping hands.

I also want somebody else to run the actual tournament and find moderators. I might be able to handle something on the order of Chicago Open, but on the other hand I don't want to try my hand for the first time at Chicago Open, and in any case it would divert my time from editing duties. Help is needed.

CAVEAT (stolen from Jerry): While I do not anticipate anything that should preclude me from editing CO this year, in the unlikely but not impossible event that something like this occurs, I will do my best to find replacement editors. I'm putting this out there so that there are no surprises later on.

EDIT: The real matchmaking grid is here.
Last edited by The King's Flight to the Scots on Wed May 29, 2013 12:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Sam » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:27 pm

Just to be clear, Chicago Open proper is still only one day, yes? July 21 will be a day of unrelated side events?
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm

I have created a team-forming spreadsheet here.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:51 pm

I don't see a base fee listed. Is it going to be $120?
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:57 pm

ThisIsMyUsername wrote:I don't see a base fee listed. Is it going to be $120?
Whoops, missed that. Yes.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:14 am

Sam wrote:Just to be clear, Chicago Open proper is still only one day, yes? July 21 will be a day of unrelated side events?
On that line, is CO trash going ahead as planned?
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Demonic Leftovers » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:56 am

CO Trash is still planned for CO Sunday.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:06 am

As is Urgent Call for Unity. The packet submission deadline for that is now June 9th, 2013.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:53 pm

One more announcement: I'm not taking partial packets from writers this year. I have enough difficulty with organization naturally, and I don't want to compile every packet from four different documents, which may or may not contain every needed question, plus run the risk of combining packet-fragments from two different teams. I understand that this hurts teams with one slacker, but I encourage those teams to agree to make the slacker fork up the extra money himself.
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CO barbecue

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:35 pm

I will host another barbecue on the Friday evening of CO weekend, in dishonor of [certain notorious individuals]. The official starting time will be [EDIT: 6.00 PM] on July 19th, but please come any time if you're arriving later. If you arrive earlier, I'll still probably be preparing, but you should be able to amuse yourselves with beer. As last year, I will prepare a selection of things and provide drinks. Additionally, I hope to have the "Briticised" questions from recent tournaments read to Jeff Hoppes, who will answer them as we observe. (If the British team coming to CO can get to the barbecue, that would be great--otherwise, I hope someone will volunteer to read.) The "suggested" donation will be $5 per person, except for the dishonorees who will be charged $10.

Please RSVP if you plan to come, so I can get a count for food and drink purchasing decisions, and let me know if you're a vegetarian or have other dietary issues. My email address is msteinbaum at gmail. It will take place at 5338 Harper Ave in the backyard (the same place as last year), and the gate directly to the street will be open.

Finally--Dave, I and everyone else appreciates the lunch you provide, but could it please be something other than Giordano's? If you'd like some alternatives, including other pizza options, let me know.

Discussion of what kind of pizza to eat at Chicago Open now has its own thread. --Mgmt.
Last edited by Tees-Exe Line on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CO barbecue

Post by Edmund » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Tees-Exe Line wrote:Additionally, I hope to have the "Briticised" questions from recent tournaments read to Jeff Hoppes, who will answer them as we observe. (If the British team coming to CO can get to the barbecue, that would be great--otherwise, I hope someone will volunteer to read.)
At present I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to make it ourselves. Thanks for the invitation!
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 am

I still need a committed science editor for this tournament to happen. I've hit all the usual suspects who aren't playing; any other ideas or volunteers?
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Mike Bentley » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:23 am

Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. wrote:I still need a committed science editor for this tournament to happen. I've hit all the usual suspects who aren't playing; any other ideas or volunteers?
Make it a science-free tournament.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Cheynem » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:26 am

Just edit the science yourself, using playtesting to get through particularly sticky wickets.

Or, go the extreme specialist route--maybe you can find someone interested in handling just the CS or just the biology.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:32 am

Mike Bentley wrote:
Vernon Lee Bad Marriage, Jr. wrote:I still need a committed science editor for this tournament to happen. I've hit all the usual suspects who aren't playing; any other ideas or volunteers?
Make it a science-free tournament.
FUCK NO
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Cheynem » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:46 am

Aside from physics, wouldn't you actually benefit by a science free tournament? Although you do have some science teammates this year.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:52 am

We've had this problem for years now with CO (not coincidentally the same problem we've had with ACF tournaments), and I'm just gonna put a plea out there: will someone competent please, please step up to edit the science? I mean, I get that CO is a big deal, everyone wants to play, blah blah blah, but there are surely some people out there who have played a bunch of COs, never edited, and know some science. In the past several years, I've found that the science has been seriously inferior to other categories. Questions frequently degenerate into meaningless word soup that becomes all about who can read the author's mind the fastest, and often fail to explain what they're about at all.

If you've played lots of COs in the past and know science but have never edited, I urge you to consider helping out on the science here. It's frustrating how one of the most enjoyable events of the year consistently underperforms in a specific category, which constitutes 20% of the tournament's questions.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:53 am

Cheynem wrote:Aside from physics, wouldn't you actually benefit by a science free tournament? Although you do have some science teammates this year.
I'd also benefit from a tournament with no geography or ancient philosophy, let's eliminate those!
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Cheynem » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:02 pm

Sounds good to me.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:04 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Cheynem wrote:Aside from physics, wouldn't you actually benefit by a science free tournament? Although you do have some science teammates this year.
I'd also benefit from a tournament with no geography or ancient philosophy, let's eliminate those!
Yeah, still not seeing the downside here!
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Auroni » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:56 pm

grapesmoker wrote: I mean, I get that CO is a big deal, everyone wants to play, blah blah blah, but there are surely some people out there who have played a bunch of COs, never edited, and know some science.
I don't think this is quite the issue. I think it's some combination of editor burnout and people not feeling as if they're up for the challenge. I have a feeling tha most people who know science and write good questions that are not playing would be up for playtesting (more on this in a moment).

I've been semi-jokingly, semi-seriously ribbing Matt to edit the science himself this year, mostly to annoy him, but I think there's a point to be made. The rest of quizbowl has dramatically improved in quality the past few years. Fewer tournaments now just use clues consisting of names associated with the answerline, instead opting to contextually explain what the significance of each sentence is. I see no reason that someone well-versed in the standards of meaningful clues and modern quizbowl questions could not just do the same for science questions. I predict that most science submissions to CO will be rudimentarily pyramidal, but will have a whole mess of not-quite-factually right clues and "the Askaryan effect is associated with this effect" sort of clues. I don't think an editor necessarily needs to understand every scientific discipline found in the questions that are submitted to him or her, but merely needs to know what a meaning filled sentence looks like. For example, I'm clueless about lots of particle physics, but if the above clue was part of a Cerenkov radiation tossup that was submitted to me, then I would know to alter it to "Lots of secondary particles with charge anisotropy are produced in dielectrics in an effect analogous to this one, named for Gurgen Askaryan" or something along those lines. I don't have to know what anisotropy or even dielectrics are, but I have created a sentence way more meaningful than the "associated with" one.

My point, I guess, is that editing CO science isn't the bear that it's made out to be if you think like this. Sure, I know from personal experience that fact checking is a bitch and a half. But as I said before, there are plenty of science people that won't be playing that you can call together to playtest your questions. You can look up things that they find unfamiliar to see if they've been cribbed from Wikipedia or not. So I'd encourage you to give it a whirl and just do the best you can.
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grapesmoker wrote:
Cheynem wrote:Aside from physics, wouldn't you actually benefit by a science free tournament? Although you do have some science teammates this year.
I'd also benefit from a tournament with no geography or ancient philosophy, let's eliminate those!
Yeah, still not seeing the downside here!
But I have read Anaximenes in the original Frisian :sad:
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Excelsior (smack) » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:08 pm

If nobody steps up to edit this tournament, I will do it* and you will have to play geology tossups on "Gondwana separating from Laurasia".

*I will not actually do it. Somebody please do this.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Golran » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:30 pm

I would be willing to edit math and physics if you're interested, though I have zero editing experience and it would be quite a learning experience for me. If you'd prefer someone more experienced, I'd agree that that's a good thought, but I'll step up if nobody else wants to do it.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Golran wrote:I would be willing to edit math and physics if you're interested, though I have zero editing experience and it would be quite a learning experience for me. If you'd prefer someone more experienced, I'd agree that that's a good thought, but I'll step up if nobody else wants to do it.
To pick up on Auroni's point above, I think the number one mistake even people who know science make when it comes to writing is that they don't do a good job of describing what's happening. In general, that's a really good rule, and it's very relevant for science. I like Auroni's example because even though I don't know what the Askaryan effect is supposed to be, I already kind of understand what's happening in the description (particle motion in a dielectric? hmm) and this narrows down the possibilities for someone who can do that. I think if you just pick 3 or 4 good clues and explain what's happening in them, you should do fine; there's no need to pack 10 different things into a single question.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Fond du lac operon » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:03 pm

I suck at chemistry (and to a lesser extent at all non-math and non-CS science) and have zero editing experience, but other than those small issues I feel as though I'm qualified to edit CO science!

But seriously, as long as I don't have to figure out what the hell is going on with tossups on obscure-ass rearrangement reactions or whatever, I'd be happy to help to the extent I can. I'm actually knowledgeable about math and CS, I'm reasonably conversant in physics and astronomy, and I'm... uh, I'm learning biology? It'd be better than a scienceless tournament, anyway.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:09 pm

Excelsior (smack) wrote:If nobody steps up to edit this tournament, I will do it* and you will have to play geology tossups on "Gondwana separating from Laurasia".
I might enjoy this, as it'd mean I could actually get science questions by the end at a hard tournament.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:01 am

Paging Brian McPeak, Susan Ferrari, Jason Paik...at the very least, if Matt just playtests the questions with Susan they'll probably be fine.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Windows ME » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:05 pm

After going through some of WIT (where at least one of the bio and chem each round was for some unforsaken reason replaced with science history) - I've realized I would absolutely not play a tournament without a competent editor in those categories. For that reason, if NO ONE steps up, I am willling to edit the bio and chem (and only the bio and chem). My knowledge in these categories is easily deep enough for CO. However - I don't particularly WANT to do this, so this offer only stands if you don't find a competent science editor in these areas.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:27 pm

fourplustwo wrote:After going through some of WIT (where at least one of the bio and chem each round was for some unforsaken reason replaced with science history) - I've realized I would absolutely not play a tournament without a competent editor in those categories. For that reason, if NO ONE steps up, I am willling to edit the bio and chem (and only the bio and chem). My knowledge in these categories is easily deep enough for CO. However - I don't particularly WANT to do this, so this offer only stands if you don't find a competent science editor in these areas.
Uh, the science editors for WIT were Auroni and Sam, who are both extremely competent in science.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Auroni » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:39 pm

fourplustwo wrote:After going through some of WIT (where at least one of the bio and chem each round was for some unforsaken reason replaced with science history) - I've realized I would absolutely not play a tournament without a competent editor in those categories. For that reason, if NO ONE steps up, I am willling to edit the bio and chem (and only the bio and chem). My knowledge in these categories is easily deep enough for CO. However - I don't particularly WANT to do this, so this offer only stands if you don't find a competent science editor in these areas.
The plan to include 1 science history and 1 chem question a round (bio was still 1/1) was announced well-beforehand. I edited all three of those categories, so if you have any issues with specific questions, please PM/email me or post in the discussion group for the set.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:24 pm

If I don't find any teammates soon, I'd be interested in staffing the main tournament.

EDIT: I'll go ahead and say I'll be staffing the main tournament now.
Last edited by 1992 in spaceflight on Mon May 20, 2013 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:00 pm

First packet deadline is this weekend. Since this is in the middle of ACF Nats I'm willing to give extensions to teams that apply for one and give me the day they'll submit their packet by. Thanks.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:07 am

Actually, fuck it, I've been convinced to just move the first deadline back a week. All other deadlines stay the same.

In other news, Sriram from Harvard and Libo from Michigan have agreed to work on the chemistry and physics, respectively. I still need biology and other science, folks, but things are looking up.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Sat May 04, 2013 11:36 am

Hey, so I just noticed (stupid me for not reading more carefully before) that the deadlines are on Saturday/Sunday morning. Is there a specific reason for this? I ask because deadlines are typically on Sundays, and it's much easier to meet if you have both days of the weekend to work on it.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Sat May 04, 2013 11:52 am

grapesmoker wrote:Hey, so I just noticed (stupid me for not reading more carefully before) that the deadlines are on Saturday/Sunday morning. Is there a specific reason for this? I ask because deadlines are typically on Sundays, and it's much easier to meet if you have both days of the weekend to work on it.
It's on Saturday night because that's when the deadlines for Nationals were set and I worked off of that. If people think that's unreasonable or suboptimal, the one day doesn't make much of a difference to me.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The King's Flight to the Scots » Sat May 04, 2013 11:58 am

In other news, I've gotten my first submitted packet. I'll keep a running list of these here:


-$100
Charles Hang
Team Cheyne
Dartmouth
Team Gehring

-$50
Team Weiner
Team Vinokurov

-$25

No Penalty
Team Magin
Team Nediger
Team Bentley
Team England
Team USC
Team Teitler
Team Sperber

+$25
Team Peterson
Team Teevens
Team Westbrook
Team Hart

+$50
Last edited by The King's Flight to the Scots on Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Tue May 07, 2013 11:05 pm

I'd like to float a random idea. I think it'd be fun to have bouncebacks at CO.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Cheynem » Tue May 07, 2013 11:34 pm

I would not.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Excelsior (smack) » Tue May 07, 2013 11:59 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:I'd like to float a random idea. I think it'd be fun to have bouncebacks at CO.
Seeing as I have never actually played a tournament with bouncebacks (OAC doesn't count), I think this would be interesting.

On the other hand, bouncebacks require you to be thinking during every bonus, and that's kind of a difficult thing to do, especially at a tournament as long and hard as CO.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by marnold » Wed May 08, 2013 12:05 am

One of the joys of CO is the superhard questions sometimes producing delightfully wacky upsets among roughly the middle 3 quintile teams when tossups break in unusual ways. Bouncebacks stymie that. On the other hand, bouncebacks reduce the penalty for negging, which might be good for a superhard tournament.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed May 08, 2013 12:37 am

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:I'd like to float a random idea. I think it'd be fun to have bouncebacks at CO.
I think bouncebacks at CO would be decidedly unfun. (Both because CO is already a very long day, and because CO has very hard bonuses, so the primary effect of bouncebacks would be additional time spent not answering impossible things.)
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed May 08, 2013 12:55 am

The tournament will take too long with bouncebacks.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Wed May 08, 2013 1:00 am

Perhaps one of the regular season tournaments in 2013 - 2014 can pioneer the use of bouncebacks on good college questions, and we can see what actually happens?
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Wed May 08, 2013 1:27 am

I agree with Marnold; I think having bouncebacks at any "good" college tourney would kill most to all upset potential. The concept of a "clutch buzz," one of the most exciting aspects of any close game (even the rare one between top- and mid-tier teams) would be rendered nearly moot.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Charbroil » Wed May 08, 2013 2:59 am

merv1618 wrote:I agree with Marnold; I think having bouncebacks at any "good" college tourney would kill most to all upset potential. The concept of a "clutch buzz," one of the most exciting aspects of any close game (even the rare one between top- and mid-tier teams) would be rendered nearly moot.
Is this really a bad thing? I'm not saying college tournaments should have bouncebacks, but it's not a good argument against them to say that not having bouncebacks lets teams that know less beat those that know more.

It's one thing to regularly have upsets at Chicago Open (which is explicitly meant to be out of the ordinary), and quite another to hope for more of them at all levels.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed May 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Perhaps one of the regular season tournaments in 2013 - 2014 can pioneer the use of bouncebacks on good college questions, and we can see what actually happens?
We used them at Jerry's tournament after PACE a few years ago and they were fine. However, CO is already pushing the limits of how long we have the room reservations, and I wouldn't want to use them there.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by grapesmoker » Wed May 08, 2013 1:26 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:
Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Perhaps one of the regular season tournaments in 2013 - 2014 can pioneer the use of bouncebacks on good college questions, and we can see what actually happens?
We used them at Jerry's tournament after PACE a few years ago and they were fine. However, CO is already pushing the limits of how long we have the room reservations, and I wouldn't want to use them there.
We did?

Anyway, I think bouncebacks are a little too much for CO and would prefer that they not be used.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Auroni » Wed May 08, 2013 4:09 pm

I'm leaning toward "no bouncebacks" as well, for one additional reason nobody's brought up yet.

Someone will fuck up the bouncebacks. That's not a hypothetical --- it will happen. And it will happen in one of the many, many close games at CO and will result in some thorny-as-fuck protests and reading of replacement questions.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by Lagotto Romagnolo » Thu May 09, 2013 12:54 am

grapesmoker wrote:We did?
Yes, at The Emergency. But most of the people playing that had staffed the NSC that weekend and were thus already used to bouncebacks. So I agree, best not to experiment here.
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Re: Chicago Open 2013 (7/20-21/13)

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Thu May 09, 2013 2:49 am

Is the May 11th due date unchanged?
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