The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

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The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Thu May 02, 2013 9:58 pm

Per Nick in the other thread: let's talk about it! I'd rather not run the updating calendar post a la Andrew Hart the past two years, but perhaps someone can do that in a post right below mine. I figure I may as well start the opening thread with my own thoughts and concerns.

Seems like we have two regular-difficulty events for the fall, and ACF Fall. Anything else on the radar there? Seems like there might be room for an EFT- or MUT-difficulty event in early October if Fall isn't running then, or on that first November weekend if Fall relinquishes its traditional spot from earlier climes. Is Collegiate Novice happening again? There may additionally be room for something more in late November/early December. Are rumors of Minnesota Open's death correct?

In the spring, it seems like SCT, Regionals, ICT, and Nationals are all good to go again. Are any other events returning? Who else is up for writing another event besides those four?

ISSUES WORTH DISCUSSING (perhaps in split threads):
-How many events should be packet-sub, and when should they be? How much practice should teams be getting writing packets, and how can we balance this out better across the year so we don't have 1 packet sub event in the fall and 5 in the spring again?
-A tournament in late January should probably be a thing. (this looks feasible)
-Scheduling collegiate nationals to avoid NHBB and MSNCT conflicts if possible (this happened! yay!)
-How big a deal is it if two tournaments are on adjacent weekends?
-How many tournaments there should be that are harder than regular? Last year, only MO was significantly harder during the regular year and QUARK was regular-plus; this was fine by me, and I frankly don't think we need two hard tournaments per year if both only get 20 teams apiece to play them (which is about the number that MO or Peaceful Resolution actually draws).
-Getting new and good science editors into the writing/editing game (perhaps this deserves a separate thread where someone with science experience can suss out these people and try assigning them to events that need science help)
-Who wants to write stuff but doesn't have a writing team? If people volunteer to help create a set, but couldn't do it on their own, writing teams might be able to glob together when otherwise-atomized individuals wouldn't be able to.
-Dear God, people, if you want to write a set announce it early (preferably in this next month or so, but like September or so at the latest) so we don't get into scheduling conniptions mid-year. This caused big scheduling and packet-submission problems for Terrapin 2013. (we're pretty good on this score too)


FALL SEMESTER EVENTS:
Collegiate Novice 4 (September through October 5)
Michigan Fall Tournament (sub-regular) (October 5, 12) [packet-optional]
Penn Bowl (regular) (October 19, 26)
ACF Fall (easy) (November 2) [packet-sub]
<Delta Burke (easy) (November 9)>
DRAGOON (regular) (mid-late November)
Fernando Arrabal Tournament of the Absurd (crazy hard) (November 23)

SPRING SEMESTER EVENTS:
Terrapin?
WIT?
NAQT SCT (regular DI|easy DII) (February 8)
ACF Regionals (February 22) [packet-sub]
Cane Ridge Revival (March 1, March 8)
MUT (almost certainly March-April)
NAQT ICT (March 29)
ACF Nationals (April 12-13) [packet-sub]
Last edited by Adventure Temple Trail on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:50 am, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Tanay » Thu May 02, 2013 10:17 pm

WIT will return. Perhaps that can be the late January event.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Thu May 02, 2013 10:19 pm

Thanks, Matt, for starting the discussion. There are a few things I wanted to discuss, which you brought up in your opening post.
RyuAqua wrote:that first November weekend if Fall relinquishes its traditional spot from earlier climes.
The early November spot isn't an ideal one for my team this year, but I still think Fall does best there rather than on another weekend. I would hate to see it moved earlier, although I guess if it wanted to switch with that mid-November DRAGOON spot I wouldn't see a huge issue.
RyuAqua wrote:-How many events should be packet-sub, and when should they be? How much practice should teams be getting writing packets, and how can we balance this out better across the year so we don't have 1 packet sub event in the fall and 5 in the spring again?
The first two announced events are house-writes, and while I'd like to see a housewritten EFT/IFT set materialize in early October, I think any other regular difficulty set (whether it be in the QUARK timeslot in early Fall or the THUNDER slot of early December) should try to be packet-submission. On the other hand, somebody should already start planning to have a housewrite in the spring.
RyuAqua wrote:Who wants to write stuff but doesn't have a writing team? If people volunteer to help create a set, but couldn't do it on their own, writing teams might be able to glob together when otherwise-atomized individuals wouldn't be able to.
I'm up for contributing to something personally. We should probably have a collaboration thread similar to last year.

I'm also going to repeat my call for an early December regular difficulty tournament. I think it is a viable option and would be happy to play a tournament during that time period. I also think it is a good idea for teams within each region to coordinate their regions' schedules, I know the Midwest did this via email this year. Perhaps a more collaborative version of the Southeastern Quizbowl Newsletter would be a good idea for some regions to emulate.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu May 02, 2013 10:59 pm

RyuAqua wrote: -Scheduling collegiate nationals to avoid NHBB and MSNCT conflicts if possible
I believe this has been already been sorted out via private communication (in particular: ACF Nationals, NHBB Nationals, and MSNCT will be three distinct weekends in 2013-14, which I hope makes everyone's staff grids a bit easier to work with).

Edit: the 2014 MSNCT is planned for May 10th and 11th.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Masked Canadian History Bandit » Thu May 02, 2013 11:20 pm

While it was fun traveling to Brown and Yale and competing in the Northeast for a bunch of tournaments, could whatever caused most of UMD's tournaments to be inconveniently held on Sundays not happen next year?

EDIT: To clarify, I don't have anything against Sunday tournaments in particular, but the rest of Penn seems to always prefer tournaments on Saturdays, and are willing to travel significantly further (e.g. Brown), which is IMHO a bunch of wasted time.

EDIT2: I know my teammates have good reasons that they've probably mentioned, but I've forgotten and are not religiously devout or something like that.
Last edited by Masked Canadian History Bandit on Fri May 03, 2013 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cody » Thu May 02, 2013 11:37 pm

What is your objection to Sunday tournaments?
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Thu May 02, 2013 11:47 pm

None of the editors of any MO held thus far have expressed any interest in continuing it next year, myself included. At the very least, it's taking a hiatus, and will not be run next year.

MUT, on the other hand, will run again in the spring. I will be producing it in concert with members of the Minnesota team and, likely, some other collaborators.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Fri May 03, 2013 8:10 am

I call November 9 for Delta Burke, though that doesn't usually interfere with any of y'all's bidness. I just assume/hope ACF Fall will shoot for November 2.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas » Fri May 03, 2013 8:32 am

Terrapin will be happening again this year. Expect us to announce it relatively soon.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by evilmonkey » Fri May 03, 2013 9:49 am

Re: the Sunday issue - My speculation is that there's a difference to some between spending a full day playing quizbowl and getting home at 8 when you have no obligations (or church) in the morning, and when you have class (or work) in the morning. While I prefer Saturday tournaments, and have no relevance to the discussion of tournaments in the Northeast, I'm not categorically opposed to Sunday tournaments.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by grapesmoker » Fri May 03, 2013 10:52 am

Ukonvasara wrote:None of the editors of any MO held thus far have expressed any interest in continuing it next year, myself included. At the very least, it's taking a hiatus, and will not be run next year.

MUT, on the other hand, will run again in the spring. I will be producing it in concert with members of the Minnesota team and, likely, some other collaborators.
Would there be any interest in having my open master's tournament take the usual place of MO on the docket? It would be a one-time thing (I don't plan to ever do this again) but if there's demand for one crazy-hard open during the year, I am well-positioned to fill it.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cheynem » Fri May 03, 2013 10:56 am

I would rather see that in the summer if at all possible.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by grapesmoker » Fri May 03, 2013 11:10 am

Cheynem wrote:I would rather see that in the summer if at all possible.
I'm targeting August right now, so it can definitely happen in the summer, but I thought I'd see if people would be interested in this alternative or would be more likely to show up.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Muriel Axon » Fri May 03, 2013 11:11 am

For what it's worth (i.e. not much) I would be more likely to come if it were in the MO spot.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Mike Bentley » Fri May 03, 2013 11:34 am

I've always enjoyed the fall open tournament. The summer is already reasonably crowded with open events.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cheynem » Fri May 03, 2013 11:40 am

Is the summer actually crowded? There's CO and VCU Open, which I thought was tentatively going to be paired with Jerry's thing as a weekend fest.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Fri May 03, 2013 12:14 pm

I would like Arrabal to take the MO spot, partly because it would push NHB to a weekend day, partly because I like having a fall open to play, and partly because then I have something to pair Lederberg 2 with.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Fri May 03, 2013 12:16 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Ukonvasara wrote:None of the editors of any MO held thus far have expressed any interest in continuing it next year, myself included. At the very least, it's taking a hiatus, and will not be run next year.

MUT, on the other hand, will run again in the spring. I will be producing it in concert with members of the Minnesota team and, likely, some other collaborators.
Would there be any interest in having my open master's tournament take the usual place of MO on the docket? It would be a one-time thing (I don't plan to ever do this again) but if there's demand for one crazy-hard open during the year, I am well-positioned to fill it.
I am strongly in favor of a hard tournament happening in the autumn if MO isn't. If Jerry's is the only possible candidate, then that would be great.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Kyle » Fri May 03, 2013 12:32 pm

The second Oxford Open is likely to run (under mostly new management) on January 25. I don't know if that will tempt anyone, but potentially it is a convenient date for any university whose spring semester begins on January 27.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Fri May 03, 2013 12:47 pm

Cheynem wrote:Is the summer actually crowded? There's CO and VCU Open, which I thought was tentatively going to be paired with Jerry's thing as a weekend fest.
I thought there was also a plan to run NHBB College Nationals on Sunday at VCU Open. I'd definitely like to see that happen.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Fri May 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Chicago is planning on writing a spring open tournament with a couple of members of the Dartmouth team, with a release date in the early spring (in the old HI / Peaceful Resolution slot). This will be either at Regionals+ or Nats-level difficulty. (I'm open to input as to which would be better for the circuit.)

I will be serving as head editor for the tournament and as subject editor for Lit and Fine Arts; Marshall will edit History, Social Science, and Current Events; Seth Teitler will edit Physics and Mythology. We are currently negotiating to find a biology/chem editor and a religion editor. The tournament will be written slowly over the course of the summer and the next school year, so that the writers can get extensive feedback from the editing team. My goal is not only to produce a good tournament, but also to give a lot of valuable training to the younger writers involved to hopefully produce writers/editors who will go on to be involved in other projects.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Fri May 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Anybody from ACF care to elaborate on what might happen with their tournaments next year? For instance, when might we expect dates to be announced?
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Susan » Fri May 03, 2013 4:46 pm

Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:Anybody from ACF care to elaborate on what might happen with their tournaments next year? For instance, when might we expect dates to be announced?
Within a few days.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Excelsior (smack) » Fri May 03, 2013 5:51 pm

I will be serving as head editor for the tournament and as subject editor for Lit and Fine Arts; Marshall will edit History, Social Science, and Current Events; Seth Teitler will edit Physics and Mythology. We are currently negotiating to find a biology/chem editor and a religion editor.
Philosophy and other science?
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Tale of Mac Datho's Pachycephalosaur » Fri May 03, 2013 9:20 pm

RyuAqua wrote: -Getting new and good science editors into the writing/editing game (perhaps this deserves a separate thread where someone with science experience can suss out these people and try assigning them to events that need science help)
-Who wants to write stuff but doesn't have a writing team? If people volunteer to help create a set, but couldn't do it on their own, writing teams might be able to glob together when otherwise-atomized individuals wouldn't be able to.
I am interested to start editing my usual suspect categories of physics, astronomy, math, and earth science for some sort of tournament in the spring--reminding potential collaborators that I have exactly zero editing experience. I'd prefer for the tournament to be regular difficulty or below.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Sat May 04, 2013 7:25 am

Excelsior (smack) wrote:
I will be serving as head editor for the tournament and as subject editor for Lit and Fine Arts; Marshall will edit History, Social Science, and Current Events; Seth Teitler will edit Physics and Mythology. We are currently negotiating to find a biology/chem editor and a religion editor.
Philosophy and other science?
Seth is most likely doing misc. science, and I will probably be editing the Philosophy.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Susan » Sun May 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Susan wrote:
Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:Anybody from ACF care to elaborate on what might happen with their tournaments next year? For instance, when might we expect dates to be announced?
Within a few days.
Fall: November 2, 2013
Regionals: February 22, 2014
Nationals: April 12-13, 2014
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Mon May 06, 2013 9:36 am

Thanks, Susan.

How about NAQT? I take it that SCT will be two weeks before Regionals, as is traditional; will ICT be two weeks before ACF Nationals or two weeks after, given that after seems to be an option?

And it seems like Fall did go for its traditional November spot. Does anyone have thoughts of putting together an event for early October, ideally a Fall-level or EFT-level event?
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by jonpin » Mon May 06, 2013 4:19 pm

While I can't speak for him, Dave Madden announced some time ago that he had already booked the Crystal Gateway the weekend of April 26-27 for NHBB. Easter is April 20, so presumably ICT will again precede ACF Nationals.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Sam » Mon May 06, 2013 5:42 pm

RyuAqua wrote:Thanks, Susan.

How about NAQT? I take it that SCT will be two weeks before Regionals, as is traditional; will ICT be two weeks before ACF Nationals or two weeks after, given that after seems to be an option?

And it seems like Fall did go for its traditional November spot. Does anyone have thoughts of putting together an event for early October, ideally a Fall-level or EFT-level event?
Is there a reason it should be Fall- or EFT-level? I understand the usefulness of having new players come to appropriate difficulty tournaments as soon as possible, but Fall still very much exists and for complete novices there is now also Collegiate Novice.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cody » Mon May 06, 2013 6:44 pm

One (maybe two) tournaments isn't a great introduction to quizbowl before throwing (new) people into regular difficulty.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by evilmonkey » Mon May 06, 2013 8:06 pm

SirT wrote:One (maybe two) tournaments isn't a great introduction to quizbowl before throwing (new) people into regular difficulty.
I agree. The fall is the key time to brainwash new people into the belief that quizbowl is awesome. However, the vast majority of potential team members will not be at all ready for regular difficulty (and some will be challenged greatly even by fall level questions). I'd prefer not to say "You get a really easy tournament that's not really representative of college quizbowl in September, ACF Fall in November, and that's it for difficulty appropriate questions for you" to those members who have not yet decided they actually want to do quizbowl.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by marnold » Mon May 06, 2013 9:25 pm

People who need 3 tournaments in a semester just for them before they play big-mean-scary regular difficulty aren't going to play quizbowl for long anyway.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Matt Weiner » Mon May 06, 2013 9:28 pm

I still support moving Fall a full month earlier in future years so the opening of the everybody-plays season isn't delayed to November.

Failing that: how about a mid-September tournament this year? The vast majority of colleges start in late August. If this is targeted as a regular event and not at new players, recruiting beforehand won't be a concern.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon May 06, 2013 9:35 pm

One problem with the current schedule is that the two most prominent easy tournaments are very early in the year, and that can be difficult for new teams to get organized in time to send players to. Obviously these tournaments aren't really focused on targeting established strong players or strong players from high school; what's left as a target audience are brand new programs and weaker players at established programs. It's poorly planned to hold only 2 events for that group, and even worse to schedule them when it's nigh impossible for a significant number teams to actually be able to go.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon May 06, 2013 10:35 pm

RyuAqua wrote:How about NAQT? I take it that SCT will be two weeks before Regionals, as is traditional; will ICT be two weeks before ACF Nationals or two weeks after, given that after seems to be an option?
SCT: February 8, 2014
ICT: March 29, 2014
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by evilmonkey » Tue May 07, 2013 1:27 am

marnold wrote:People who need 3 tournaments in a semester just for them before they play big-mean-scary regular difficulty aren't going to play quizbowl for long anyway.
No. But people who are the major targets of these tournaments probably aren't committed enough yet that they'll make all three, either. You're probably lucky if they make one, because the first one landed on the scholarship luncheon they had to attend, and the second one is on the week that their parents have decided to come up and visit them (or something).
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Tue May 07, 2013 10:36 am

I'll remind folks that Delta Burke is probably between Collegiate Novice and ACF Fall in difficulty (maybe closer to the latter) and would be available for cheap mirroring in late November/early December or even early spring. So you can give the newbies another intro-level tournament while also exposing them to scatology and socialist snark.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by kdroge » Tue May 07, 2013 12:56 pm

I believe us at Michigan are going to be running a tournament in the October timeslot that we've run MOO and QUARK in the past two years. This will probably involve packet submission to some extent. In terms of difficulty, it seems like there'd be room for either a regular difficulty event or a regular plus event- do people have a preference across these alternatives?

Also, we're currently looking for a science editor for this tournament, so, if you'd be interested, feel free to talk to either Will or I about this.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cody » Tue May 07, 2013 1:20 pm

A below-Fall-level tournament doesn't really serve the purpose of transitioning new people to regular difficulty. Ideally, another IFT level (between Fall and Regionals) will pop up.

I'd prefer Michigan didn't write another tournament, even packet sub, but since you can't be convinced otherwise, it would be better if it were regular.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Sam » Tue May 07, 2013 1:37 pm

kdroge wrote:I believe us at Michigan are going to be running a tournament in the October timeslot that we've run MOO and QUARK in the past two years. This will probably involve packet submission to some extent. In terms of difficulty, it seems like there'd be room for either a regular difficulty event or a regular plus event- do people have a preference across these alternatives?
I'd like to see a tournament somewhere between Fall and EFT, to ease people into the transition from Fall to not-quite-Regionals level difficulty.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 07, 2013 2:17 pm

I like Sam's idea-in-between Fall and EFT would be an excellent way to help people transition from Fall to not-quite Regionals difficulty. If that doesn't work out, I think it's best if Michigan edits a regular difficulty event.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Frater Taciturnus » Tue May 07, 2013 2:22 pm

If Jerry's tournament is indeed happening in the fall, I would personally prefer if no other fall tournaments exceeded Regionals and/or "regular" difficulty.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by grapesmoker » Tue May 07, 2013 2:37 pm

Frater Taciturnus wrote:If Jerry's tournament is indeed happening in the fall, I would personally prefer if no other fall tournaments exceeded Regionals and/or "regular" difficulty.
So I'm sensing that people would prefer this, but I don't want to push anything on anyone. I would like to hear more from masters players who would be the main target of such an event.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by 1992 in spaceflight » Tue May 07, 2013 4:32 pm

So is Collegiate Novice happening next year? My apologies if I'm jumping the gun before an announcement.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by No Rules Westbrook » Wed May 08, 2013 5:32 pm

I hope that there will be one hard open-level event during the fall...I'd rather have Jerry's event played in August, and have another event take the usual place of MO as a hard open.

If the Michigan guys want to write that type of hard open, that's a possibility.

Either way, I'll probably show up to any scheduled hard open tourney.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Mon May 13, 2013 7:46 pm

To revive this discussion: I've now been a teammate to several people who were on very competitive teams in high school, or were very good players themselves, and I can't think of a single one of them (myself included) who didn't benefit from the existence of another sub-regular tournament besides Fall their first year. No matter which way you slice it, the jump from high school to college is quite a jump, and that EFT/IFT-type set has been a really good tool for showing people the ways in which college quizbowl is different from high school without being as large and discomfiting a leap as it could otherwise be. From the experiences I've seen I'm squarely on the side of such a "Fall+ / Regionals-" tournament existing in the fall. I know at least that Will Nediger is open to this from talking to him off-boards; would other returning Michigan people really be stridently against this? Writing a tournament that's more like EFT or MUT will still result in lots of improvement for the writers and will definitely improve the circuit as a whole.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Fri May 24, 2013 9:36 am

Updated the 1st post with all publicly-available current information.

Jerry, do you have any updates on when your crazy open will be?

Berkeley/Maryland/Rob Carson: Any further ideas about when your events will be, what they'll look like (packet sub, difficulty, etc.), and who will edit them? On the surface it seems as though there's only room for two more events without overstuffing the spring calendar (one in late January, one in late March, perhaps running into the between-Nats or post-Nats weeks in some areas) - has there been any thought of consolidation?
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Cody » Fri May 24, 2013 9:45 am

The last Maryland tournament run on MLK weekend seemed to work quite well (at least in the Mid-Atlantic); that should be considered.
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Re: The 2013-14 Tournament Schedule

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Fri May 24, 2013 11:19 am

MUT will almost certainly, like this past year, run at various weekends of convenience through late March and April.
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