Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

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Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:56 pm

The University of Chicago will host its housewritten tournament, Cane Ridge Revival, on March 8, 2014.

Location: Harper Memorial Library, 1116 East 59th Street, Chicago.

Question set: The set will be written and edited by current and former members of the UChicago and Dartmouth teams and others; more information is available in the set announcement thread.

Eligibility: This is an open tournament. Anyone may play. However, in order to assure a balanced field, we reserve the right to require superteams to split.

Money: The base fee is $120.
  • There is a $20 discount per 200 one-way driving miles (as measured along the Google Maps route of least time).
  • There is a $10 discount for bringing a fully functional buzzer system.
  • There is a $15 discount for providing a staffer who has been approved by me at least two weeks before the tournament. Staffers will be provided with lunch.
  • If you say you will bring a buzzer system or staffer in exchange for a discount, and then fail to do so without sufficient advance notice, you forfeit the discount and owe an additional fee equal to the amount the discount would have been.
  • The minimum fee is $60 per team.
  • If you cancel between 72 hours and 24 hours before the tournament, you will be charged a cancellation fee of $40. If you cancel less than 24 hours before the tournament, you will be charged a cancellation fee of $80. I reserve the right to waive this fee (and all others) at my discretion.
  • You must pay in full by check before the tournament, or bring sufficient cash or a check to the tournament. Teams that have not paid in advance and do not bring acceptable payment to the tournament will be directed to an ATM and will not be permitted to play until they have paid. All fines due to buzzer/staffer cancellation must be paid before you will be permitted to play.
Registration: To register, email me with your roster — and, if you wish, team name — at jonah@jonahgreenthal.com. No other mode of communication is acceptable.

Field: Due to the limited number of rooms available, the field will be limited to 20 teams in order of registration.

Contact: If you have any questions, please contact me at jonah@jonahgreenthal.com.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:57 pm

Final Field (6): Illinois A, Illinois B, Jose/Sorice/Laferbrook, Kenyon, Venkus/Tian/Kiss/Hausinger, Vinokurov/Dees/Yu/Hart
Last edited by jonah on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:47 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sun Devil Student » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:57 pm

Is there any mechanism for free agent sign-ups?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:27 pm

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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:46 pm

Thank you to Will for setting up the spreadsheet. Just to be clear (since there's been confusion about these things before): that spreadsheet is for team formation only; registration happens only through e-mailing Jonah.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Bill McNeal » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:13 pm

I added my name (Alex Jacob) to the free agent list just in case a 3-man team wants a 4th to help pay the entry fee. But I'm not good at this, so you should know that I'd mostly be watching.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Kilroy Was Here » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:33 pm

If there's anyone coming from Michigan to this tournament that would be willing to carpool, let me know. I come with gas money.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:40 pm

So, there are no actual teams on the spreadsheet. Is this the case for the field as a whole?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:45 pm

The field is up-to-date and will continue to be maintained in this post. I am not looking at the spreadsheet; the only way to register is by emailing me.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:51 pm

Register people! I want to play a good field!
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:40 pm

Horned Screamer wrote:Register people! I want to play a good field!
Register yourself! You want to play a good field!
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:56 pm

I'm on one of the registered teams!
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Horned Screamer wrote:I'm on one of the registered teams!
As far as I know, the only people on a registered team are Matt Lafer, Ryan Westbrook, and Jerry Vinokurov.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by a bird » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:13 pm

A few people from Kenyon are planning on coming to this. We should have finalized plans soon.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by theMoMA » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:41 pm

Is anyone else planning to make the trek from Minnesota to play this tournament? I'd like to see if there are carpooling options before booking a flight.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:55 pm

Much though I would love to do a tredecuple round robin (followed by advantaged finals!), more teams should register for this.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:46 am

Are there people interested in this event who just haven't done the official email-Jonah registration (who, say, talked to John about their plans to attend without completing the circle)?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:53 am

I've heard from Illinois and Kenyon. And there's a team listed on the spreadsheet (i.e. Parks, Venkus, etc.) that apparently has not e-mailed Jonah.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by ObsidianFoot » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:16 am

I am offering myself as a free agent for this tournament. I know some history, and less mythology and geography, and I will try not to disappoint my teammates.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:05 pm

Can we get some kind of a field update or some other indication that this tournament will not just be my team playing Ryan and Matt for 15 rounds?

Also, Zach Pace from Buffalo might have his SPACE tournament thing ready by this weekend. Anyone interested in playing that? I'm looking at you, Teitler!
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:07 pm

The field of three teams posted above is accurate and has always been accurate to within five minutes.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by grapesmoker » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:18 pm

Turns out I was lying about SPACE. Oh well.
jonah wrote:The field of three teams posted above is accurate and has always been accurate to within five minutes.
Maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but I'm not getting how a spring Nationals-prep tournament in Chicago is primarily attracting decrepit oldsters, some of whom are editing said Nationals. What the hell, people? Also, given that this is a housewrite, there should be some serious effort put towards having an even number of teams.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Cheynem » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Caveat: From what I've seen, this tournament looks fine and should be a fun time.

I think this tournament just suffered from a host of unfortunate factors, some of which beyond its control:

1. The midwestern circuit is not quite as strong as it has been in other years. At one point, Minnesota would perhaps have sent two teams to this, now I don't think it's sending either. That's not necessarily a negative, it's just a sign of cyclical aspects.

2. The tournament takes place right after the SCT/Regionals block, during or right before/after spring break, and right before the nationals block (with ICT pretty early this year). It's fatiguing on teams to constantly travel, especially if they are cash-strapped to begin with. Knowing Michigan State's cash flow issues, I can't really castigate them for not ponying up for another travel trip. Similarly, I know Rob Carson would like to play, but he's also paying for ICT out of pocket and trying to write MUT too. It's a tough time for people.

3. The Chicago tournaments of the past experienced mixed critical reaction. I think we're past the point where a tournament will be announced and everyone will show up. There was some suspicion about this tournament's quality (and again, let me stress, I think it's good).

4. The demand for a hard open tournament is no longer as prevalent as it used to be. At the risk of sounding like a Weinerian, I think that's a good thing. Furthermore, by allowing two basically equal mirror sites, the potential field is sliced in half--the Mid Atlantic site has a more exciting field, but I know in the past, a Mid Atlantic site has resulted in a desultory field for hot opens as some teams traveled to the Midwest.

In short, this tournament had some scheduling and field issues that made it difficult to attract a lot of other teams. I might suggest that in the future we reassess how much room there is for hard opens on the schedule.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by ThisIsMyUsername » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:47 pm

Cheynem wrote:The tournament takes place right after the SCT/Regionals block, during or right before/after spring break, and right before the nationals block (with ICT pretty early this year). It's fatiguing on teams to constantly travel, especially if they are cash-strapped to begin with. Knowing Michigan State's cash flow issues, I can't really castigate them for not ponying up for another travel trip. Similarly, I know Rob Carson would like to play, but he's also paying for ICT out of pocket and trying to write MUT too. It's a tough time for people.
If there are people whose primary restrictions are financial, they should e-mail me. I should be able to put up to two people up at my place, if need be. And I can e-mail other members of the Chicago team to see if more people could be accommodated.
The Chicago tournaments of the past experienced mixed critical reaction. I think we're past the point where a tournament will be announced and everyone will show up. There was some suspicion about this tournament's quality (and again, let me stress, I think it's good).
There is minimal overlap between the Chicago teams that produced the 2011-2012 tournaments that you're talking about and the current writing team. And those writers who are returning all have two years more experience playing and writing quizbowl questions. I don't know what my involvement in this set counts for, but I head-edited it, and I personally wrote between 1/4 and 1/3 of all the questions in the set, not even counting all the submitted questions by other writers that were rewritten or heavily edited by me. And we playtested this set pretty thoroughly. If people feel they need to hear more unbiased reviews from players at the Penn site before they decide this tournament is worth playing, so be it. But I'm sorry to hear that Chicago apparently has this damaged a brand-name.
The demand for a hard open tournament is no longer as prevalent as it used to be. At the risk of sounding like a Weinerian, I think that's a good thing. Furthermore, by allowing two basically equal mirror sites, the potential field is sliced in half--the Mid Atlantic site has a more exciting field, but I know in the past, a Mid Atlantic site has resulted in a desultory field for hot opens as some teams traveled to the Midwest.

In short, this tournament had some scheduling and field issues that made it difficult to attract a lot of other teams. I might suggest that in the future we reassess how much room there is for hard opens on the schedule.
Yeah, I hope the scheduling talk for next year is more detailed and thorough. This tournament has taken more energy out of me than anything I've done for quizbowl before, and I definitely would not have done this nor would I do this again had I known that there was this little interest.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Cheynem » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:52 pm

Yeah, again let me stress that this tournament seems good and in terms of quality, I'd recommend people to play it. However, I also don't think there are a lot of teams with the time and money and resources to go that are deliberately not going because they're wary about the questions either.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:12 pm

Personally, I'd say the reasons I'm not currently attending are, in order:

1) Spring break
2) Cost of transportation
3) Not being very good at quizbowl
4) bad memories of getting curbstomped at Peaceful Resolution

That being said, if somebody within like 2 hours of Bowling Green wants to go to this thing and needs a teammate who will occasionally get a history question and neg other things, I can be talked into it.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:04 pm

We may host an online mirror of this sometime later in the spring. Since our spring term goes a lot later than most peoples', we could probably do this after most peoples' academic years have ended, and I would expect that we could get decent attendance if we allowed for people to form Skype teams from one or more locations.

Also, there's enough free agents on that spreadsheet to form two full teams, and an unregistered team on the spreadsheet as well.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Guile Island » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:22 pm

Yeah, I really want to play this tournament, but since it's really the last good weekend before Spring Break I have other stuff I have to do. I would love to play an online mirror though, if one happens.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonpin » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:56 pm

lolwut

Image

In case it is not clear, this is me expressing my bemused confusion with someone (notably someone who is not me) adding Anton Karpovich to a team and me to the pool of free agents for this tournament, yesterday morning. I guess that explains the instant message I got from a former student asking if I was "still interested in going" to the Penn mirror.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:51 pm

Hey, STOP ADDING FAKE PLAYERS TO SIGN UP SHEETS. YOU ARE NOT FUNNY.

God, what is with you people? Are you 13 years old?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:18 pm

We have six teams. Registration closes at 12 midnight Wednesday (i.e., the end of Tuesday).
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:25 pm

For the teams that are registered, are there any spots on your team still open? Also, are the free agents on the spreadsheet actually planning to play? I have no idea how up-to-date it is, and I don't think I know any of you other than Shan. I doubt I will contribute much, but I would like to play and can probably get at least a few questions. Email me if you have room.

Thanks!

EDIT: It looks like I'm joining a team of Morgan Venkus, Charles Tian, and Andrew Kiss.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:36 am

grapesmoker wrote:Hey, STOP ADDING FAKE PLAYERS TO SIGN UP SHEETS. YOU ARE NOT FUNNY.

God, what is with you people? Are you 13 years old?
Have we finally figured out that a Google Doc doesn't work for team sign-ups?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:11 am

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
grapesmoker wrote:Hey, STOP ADDING FAKE PLAYERS TO SIGN UP SHEETS. YOU ARE NOT FUNNY.

God, what is with you people? Are you 13 years old?
Have we finally figured out that a Google Doc doesn't work for team sign-ups?
Apparently not; there was more clowning around besides what Jon has mentioned.

We have 7 teams now, although there has been some talk of two of them combining, and I believe Chicago will be able to field 0-1 house teams as necessary to ensure we have an even number of teams.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:24 pm

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
grapesmoker wrote:Hey, STOP ADDING FAKE PLAYERS TO SIGN UP SHEETS. YOU ARE NOT FUNNY.

God, what is with you people? Are you 13 years old?
Have we finally figured out that a Google Doc doesn't work for team sign-ups?
I seriously do not understand why people do this. It makes me really angry, because, like, who are you? You're a member of the community, right? Why are you doing dumb things that fuck over other people in that community?

Normally I'd just be like, fuck it, make everything secure up the wazoo. But I would have thought that quizbowl, occasional cheating notwithstanding, is generally full of decent human beings who understand that you shouldn't cause grief for other people just because you think it might be funny to sign up a non-participating player for a tournament. Because you (you people who are doing this) understand how that can fuck up a tournament, right?

If you're the kind of person who violates eminently reasonable community norms for lulz, you are A TROLLING ASSHOLE. Stop being A TROLLING ASSHOLE and realize that your unfunny bullshit can ruin someone's weekend.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:26 pm

I'm pretty sure seeing relevant people flip out in public over their puppetmastery is exactly what these people are going for, so maybe we should no longer do that (and, of course, blaze new ground for quizbowl by no longer doing things that have failed in the past expecting a different result, i.e., stop using open Google Docs for tournament planning).
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:13 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:I'm pretty sure seeing relevant people flip out in public over their puppetmastery is exactly what these people are going for, so maybe we should no longer do that (and, of course, blaze new ground for quizbowl by no longer doing things that have failed in the past expecting a different result, i.e., stop using open Google Docs for tournament planning).
There's actually a trivial way to solve this problem in Google Docs, and that's to restrict edit rights to only those who request them. That way, you know exactly what changes were made by whom, and who has access. I encourage anyone who plans to use Google Docs for this kind of thing to take this route.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Cheynem » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:23 pm

To be fair, the Google Doc for this tournament was always unofficial and the only way to actually register was to e-mail Jonah from what I understand. That said, it's pretty stupid but Matt is right that jokesters like getting people to flip out.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:04 pm

There are approximately 14 hours left to register and we have 7 teams. Two of them may combine to leave 6. We can accommodate additional registrations.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sun Devil Student » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:02 pm

I am still planning to attend this Saturday. Do free agents just show up Saturday morning and get assigned to a team on the spot? If we need to find a team, are there any teams that could still use another player?

edit: wait, didn't notice the timestamp on Jonah's "14 hours" statement, guess it's a lot less than that now
Anyway, it looks like I'm the last free-agent not on a team so if any team has a space, let me know :)
Last edited by Sun Devil Student on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:20 pm

Sun Devil Student wrote:I am still planning to attend this Saturday. Do free agents just show up Saturday morning and get assigned to a team on the spot?
There is no such process. If you want to show up and ask people if you can be on their team, you can do that.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sun Devil Student » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:43 pm

jonah wrote:
Sun Devil Student wrote:I am still planning to attend this Saturday. Do free agents just show up Saturday morning and get assigned to a team on the spot?
There is no such process.
Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. (This is my first open tournament, sorry I don't know my way around yet)

So, any short-handed teams that could take me on, please post and/or let me know?

Thanks!
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:55 am

The field is now closed.

Location: The tournament will take place in Harper Memorial Library, 1116 East 59th Street, Chicago. Harper is fully accessible.

Arrival: Check-in will begin at 8:30 a.m in Harper 130. Please arrive no later than 8:45 a.m. The first tossup will be read promptly at 9:00 a.m. If you are running late, call or text me at 847-902-4228. If you are late and I am not aware of a very good reason for that fact, the game you are supposed to be playing at 9 a.m. will begin without you.

Parking: If you are driving, park along 59th Street, the Midway Plaisance, or anywhere else near Harper Memorial Library. Many streets have free parking—Ellis Avenue is the notable exception—and there should be plenty of spots available on Saturday morning.

Equipment: Please make sure you bring as many buzzer systems as you have promised in your registration, and make sure that all of those are in full working order. Failure on this point will result in you forfeiting the associated discounts, incurring an additional penalty equal to the amount the discount would have been, and possibly delaying the tournament as we scramble to arrange replacements.

Payment: Your payment must be received before you will be allowed to play. Please contact me if you have any questions about the amount you owe, whether your payment has been received, etc. At this point, it is inadvisable to mail checks lest they be received too late; instead, please bring a check (made out to John Lawrence) or cash to the tournament. If you incur any penalties due to failure to bring equipment or staffers (see above), these penalties must be paid before you will be allowed to play.

Logistics: Six teams are registered. A double round robin will take place (rounds 1–10). Teams will be ranked by record; the top 2 teams will split off. If a tie needs to be broken in order to effect that split, the tiebreaker will be conducted by gameplay. The lower group of 4 teams will play a round robin (rounds 11–13). The upper pair of teams will play each other three times if tiebreakers were needed, or four times if no tiebreakers were needed; if after that they are tied in record, they will play one more match to determine the champion. Those teams may agree to stop playing after fewer matches provided that they are not tied in record. There will be a lunch break of approximately one hour at a time to be determined.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:01 am

If there are 15 packets, why not flip the playoff schedule around and make the top 4 teams do another round robin, and just make the bottom 2 teams play one consolation game and then go home after round 11? Unless people really speak up and say they absolutely want to play those 12th and 13th packets, I have always found that the bottom teams in a field tend to be fine with going home a little sooner (since 11 rounds is totally an acceptable number of games), and I think whoever ends up being the top 2 teams would rather play games against different opponents rather than the same team repeatedly if given the option.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:44 am

Horned Screamer wrote:If there are 15 packets, why not flip the playoff schedule around and make the top 4 teams do another round robin
That could leave a tie for second place, one game behind the first-place team, that it would be impossible to (properly) break while still having an advantaged final.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by theMoMA » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:05 am

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather play the 4-team RR at the top and have team PPG as a statistical tiebreaker in the (somewhat unlikely) event that two teams tie for second one game behind the top team.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by jonah » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:39 am

theMoMA wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather play the 4-team RR at the top and have team PPG as a statistical tiebreaker in the (somewhat unlikely) event that two teams tie for second one game behind the top team.
If representatives from a majority of the teams attending post here or email me wanting that by late tonight (when I'm sending the printing order that includes the schedule), I'm fine with that. Should the statistical tiebreaker be after the double round robin or going into the potential final?
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by a bird » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:31 pm

Kenyon would be fine with the proposed schedule changes. The potential tie for second seems unpleasant, but since that's really the only downside, the change should be good overall.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by theMoMA » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:19 pm

I just sent out an email to reps from all the teams.
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Re: Cane Ridge Revival at UChicago: 2014-03-08

Post by theMoMA » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:22 pm

jonah wrote:Should the statistical tiebreaker be after the double round robin or going into the potential final?
So there are enough packets that one of these ties could be played off? In that case, I'd say after the double RR, since that would involve the 4th- and 5th-place teams, and it'd be more isolated from possible finals consequences (those teams would likely be statistically eliminated, or at least commonsensically eliminated, in most scenarios).
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