Specific question discussion

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Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Nitpick to your heart's content. One of the editors will be happy to post questions for you, though please try to mention why you'd like something posted (i.e. "can you post the question on x because I thought clue y was wrong", rather than just "can you post the question on x").
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Windmill Tump » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:55 pm

The only thing that I remember noting while playing was that I think Sikhs should be promptable for the khalsa bonus part in packet 6, considering that the khalsa order is a subset of Sikhs.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Mnemosyne » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:05 pm

I don't much about CS, so I'll ask: In the "log" question, what other answer could it be when you say "the runtime of blah blah computer science is this function"? I felt like the answer was log from the 2nd line but didn't buzz because it seemed too obvious. Aren't most of the algorithm runtimes some function of log? It's different if it wanted something harder like nlogn or logn, but I thought this question was pretty transparent. Please enlighten me if I was just benefitting from my own ignorance on that question.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:31 pm

Mnemosyne wrote:I don't much about CS, so I'll ask: In the "log" question, what other answer could it be when you say "the runtime of blah blah computer science is this function"? I felt like the answer was log from the 2nd line but didn't buzz because it seemed too obvious. Aren't most of the algorithm runtimes some function of log? It's different if it wanted something harder like nlogn or logn, but I thought this question was pretty transparent. Please enlighten me if I was just benefitting from my own ignorance on that question.
It's not the hardest clue, but it does require some basic familiarity with the subject matter (I imagine the number of people who know enough about computational complexity to make that sort of immediate leap is fairly low). Plus, it could just as easily be something like n^2--there are many different potential functions that could measure the runtime of a given thing, though admittedly not too many are tossupable at this level.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Wynaut » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:38 pm

Can someone post the tossups on the Philippines and fishermen in video games? I'm not sure what the lead-in clue (for the Philippines TU) was referring to, and I just want to make sure that I heard the Pokemon clue correctly for the fishermen tossup -- for some reason, I recall hearing the word "idols" in there.

EDIT: So, apparently, I misheard "items" as "idols." I should have known that Frederick Funston clue though.
Last edited by Wynaut on Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Cheynem » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:43 pm

After a battle in this country, Jacob Smith ordered the execution of all those older than ten, and the Macabebe Scouts here were led by General Frederick Funston. A revolution here was led by Cardinal Jaime Sin and culminated in the successful “snap elections.” The grandfather of this country’s current leader was assassinated in 1983 by his military escort at the airport in the capital city. This country’s dictatorship was toppled in the 1980’s People Power Revolution, causing a first lady who owned over a thousand shoes to leave the country. A revolt against American occupation here was led by Emilio Aguinaldo. For 10 points, name this country in the Pacific once led by Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos and now by Benigno Aquino III.
ANSWER: Republic of the Philippines
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:59 pm

in Packet 8, I wrote:6. The only non-Earthbound-series game designed by Shigesato Itoi centers on this activity, which is also the subject of a Vlambeer-designed 2013 iOS game whose title calls it “ridiculous”. Mark Davis lends his name to two videogames about this activity, while in Final Fantasy 8, a town on Horizon Bridge between Galbadia and Esthar is named for a performer of this activity. The Zora Tunic and Iron Boots can make it easier for the player to find (*) “lunkers” while performing this activity in Ocarina of Time. In another series, “Gurus” of this activity give items labeled “Old”, “Good”, and “Super” to the player, who can use them to find Pokémon like Goldeen or Magikarp. For 10 points, name this sport-like activity, also the subject of videogames in the River King and Bass Masters series.
ANSWER: fishing [accept word forms; accept synonyms like “angling”; accept bass fishing; accept Ridiculous Fishing; prompt on “Fisherman” or “Fishermans Horizon”]
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Ike » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:00 am

Mnemosyne wrote:I don't much about CS, so I'll ask: In the "log" question, what other answer could it be when you say "the runtime of blah blah computer science is this function"? I felt like the answer was log from the 2nd line but didn't buzz because it seemed too obvious. Aren't most of the algorithm runtimes some function of log? It's different if it wanted something harder like nlogn or logn, but I thought this question was pretty transparent. Please enlighten me if I was just benefitting from my own ignorance on that question.
Hey, I wrote some questions for Billy. Personally, I thought the possible answer space for this question were n (linear), exponential, n squared or higher (polynomial), nlogn, or constant time.* So that's five answers that I figured you could reasonably say, although I freely admit that it's pretty subversive to say this function of n for a constant time tossup (surprise, it's not dependent on n at all!) If I did narrow down the answer space way too quickly, I apologize, but I'm in agreement with Rob that it is pretty hard to make that leap unless you have some familiarity with how complexity theory works.

*I imagine that one could write a tossup on iterated logarithm or double exponential time or a couple of other runtimes but that would make most players very, very, sad.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Windmill Tump » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:03 pm

The polynomial tossup in packet 8 says monic in the middle, still in power, which seems suboptimal since I think it makes it really easy for someone to just go and guess polynomial.

I also thought the alcohol tossup from packet 5 was pretty fraudable since it suggests pretty early that it's some kind of a liquid that's prohibited; this might just be me making an unwise assumption from the "of the Ganges" thing.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by naturalistic phallacy » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:46 pm

Seram Friarbird wrote:The polynomial tossup in packet 8 says monic in the middle, still in power, which seems suboptimal since I think it makes it really easy for someone to just go and guess polynomial.

I also thought the alcohol tossup from packet 5 was pretty fraudable since it suggests pretty early that it's some kind of a liquid that's prohibited; this might just be me making an unwise assumption from the "of the Ganges" thing.
I was worried about that clue in the "alcohol" tossup - something interesting that I read and didn't want to exclude. Thanks for letting me know how it played out!
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by touchpack » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:52 am

Ike wrote:
Mnemosyne wrote:I don't much about CS, so I'll ask: In the "log" question, what other answer could it be when you say "the runtime of blah blah computer science is this function"? I felt like the answer was log from the 2nd line but didn't buzz because it seemed too obvious. Aren't most of the algorithm runtimes some function of log? It's different if it wanted something harder like nlogn or logn, but I thought this question was pretty transparent. Please enlighten me if I was just benefitting from my own ignorance on that question.
Hey, I wrote some questions for Billy. Personally, I thought the possible answer space for this question were n (linear), exponential, n squared or higher (polynomial), nlogn, or constant time.* So that's five answers that I figured you could reasonably say, although I freely admit that it's pretty subversive to say this function of n for a constant time tossup (surprise, it's not dependent on n at all!) If I did narrow down the answer space way too quickly, I apologize, but I'm in agreement with Rob that it is pretty hard to make that leap unless you have some familiarity with how complexity theory works.

*I imagine that one could write a tossup on iterated logarithm or double exponential time or a couple of other runtimes but that would make most players very, very, sad.
I'm pretty much in full agreement with Ike here. I agree that it's not a perfect question considering that "log" is the most easily guessable / probably most likely to be a tossup at lower difficulties of the answers in the possible answerspace, but there still ARE other possible answers in the answerspace. I definitely think one could write an interesting tossup on exponential / linear pretty easily, although for this difficulty level you might have to have a few math clues in the 2nd half of the tossup (with the rest being CS, of course).
Seram Friarbird wrote:The polynomial tossup in packet 8 says monic in the middle, still in power, which seems suboptimal since I think it makes it really easy for someone to just go and guess polynomial.
Is "monic" some sort of highschool buzzword or something? I've literally almost NEVER seen it appear in collegiate questions, and from my limited understand of higher maths, it seems to be a pretty basic/important thing in abstract algebra, which I deemed to be harder than "characteristic polynomial" from linear algebra, which I think is a much more widely taken class (pretty much ALL the engineers here take lin alg but nothing higher). Here's the text of the tossup:

If a ring R is Noetherian, then the ring of these objects over R is also Noetherian according to the Hilbert basis theorem. Given a set of these objects S, the set of values which make every element of S vanish is an affine variety. For a ring or a field denoted K, the ring of these objects over the ring or field is denoted K followed by x enclosed in brackets. A monic one of these objects whose roots are the eigenvalues of a matrix is the matrix’s (*) “charateristic” one. Descartes’ rule of signs applies to equations of these objects. Techniques for solving equations of these functions degree 2 include completing the square, factoring, and using the quadratic formula. For 10 points each, name these functions consisting of variables multiplied by coefficients and raised to integer exponents, such as “x squared minus four.”
ANSWER: polynomials

Looking back on it, it doesn't seem like a very hard tossup overall, but I think it's fine for MUT. My intention was that if you have heard of a monic polynomial, you buzz in and receive 15 points.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Windmill Tump » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:12 am

I first heard about monic polynomials mostly as a terminology thing at first back when I first learned any algebra at all (so something like http://www.math.utah.edu/~wortman/1050-text-fp.pdf) but I guess it's just something unique that my teacher decided to mention rather than a common thing.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Aaron's Rod » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:02 pm

Can you post the clarinet question? No qualms with it, just a clarinet major interested in seeing how the rest of it.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:32 am

In Packet 4, I wrote:14. One work for this instrument and chamber ensemble includes the movements “The Perilous Shore” and “Hoedown (Mad Cow)” and is John Adams’s Gnarly Buttons. The keys of F and E major struggle for dominance in the snare drum-heavy concerto for this instrument composed by Carl Nielsen. Conductor Osmo Vanska plays this instrument, which was the solo instrument in a concerto Mozart wrote for Anton Stadler. Hyacinthe Klosé developed a (*) fingering system for this instrument that he named after a man who’d done similar work on the flute, Theodore Boehm. Players of this instrument play higher notes by using its register key. Stravinsky’s Ebony Concerto for this instrument was dedicated to Woody Herman and later recorded by Benny Goodman. For 10 points, name this woodwind instrument, usually pitched in B-flat.
ANSWER: clarinet [accept bass clarinet, basset clarinet, or basset horn]
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:55 pm

REO Dragonwagon wrote:
Seram Friarbird wrote:The polynomial tossup in packet 8 says monic in the middle, still in power, which seems suboptimal since I think it makes it really easy for someone to just go and guess polynomial.

I also thought the alcohol tossup from packet 5 was pretty fraudable since it suggests pretty early that it's some kind of a liquid that's prohibited; this might just be me making an unwise assumption from the "of the Ganges" thing.
I was worried about that clue in the "alcohol" tossup - something interesting that I read and didn't want to exclude. Thanks for letting me know how it played out!
In the round I heard this question, someone on Wesleyan (I think) made the (understandable but unwise) decision of buzzing with "water" on the "of the Ganges" clue, and I was able to vulch the question pretty quickly in the way Sid suggested was possible, so his concern seems reasonable.

Could I see the Kenya literature tossup? I'm curious if it was clued entirely from Ngugi or if other authors were included as well.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:46 pm

gamegeek2 wrote:Could I see the Kenya literature tossup? I'm curious if it was clued entirely from Ngugi or if other authors were included as well.
In Packet 7, Andrew wrote:15. Beryl Markham’s West With the Night and Elspeth Huxley’s The Flame Trees of Thika were based on experiences in this country, which was satirized as the “Free Republic of Abruria” under the autocratic rule of The Ruler in the 2006 novel The Wizard of the Crow. Munira is convicted of arson in one novel by an author from this country, who wrote another novel in which Kihika kills District Officer Robson. An author who set A (*) Grain of Wheat and Petals of Blood in this country was imprisoned by its longtime ruler Daniel arap Moi. Karen Blixen’s love affair with Denys Finch Hatton on a coffee plantation in this country inspired her to write Out of Africa under the pen name Isak Dinesen. For 10 points, name this home country of Ngugi wa Thiong’o, who now writes exclusively in its Gikuyu language.
ANSWER: Republic of Kenya [or Jamhuri ya Kenya]
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:49 pm

On the "you are a rich Muslim" bonus, I feel like "People of the Book" should at least be promptable on the Dhimmi part.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:01 pm

merv1618 wrote:On the "you are a rich Muslim" bonus, I feel like "People of the Book" should at least be promptable on the Dhimmi part.
As I understand it, "dhimmi" refers specifically to a non-Muslim living in an Islamic country who pays the jizya, while "people of the Book" is a general term for (primarily?) Jews and Christians. The latter are, at best, a subset of the former, since Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, what have you can all be dhimmi as well. I certainly admit I'm not an expert though, so I'm willing to be corrected.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:03 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
merv1618 wrote:On the "you are a rich Muslim" bonus, I feel like "People of the Book" should at least be promptable on the Dhimmi part.
As I understand it, "dhimmi" refers specifically to a non-Muslim living in an Islamic country who pays the jizya, while "people of the Book" is a general term for (primarily?) Jews and Christians. The latter are, at best, a subset of the former, since Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, what have you can all be dhimmi as well. I certainly admit I'm not an expert though, so I'm willing to be corrected.
I've always understood it (and Wikipedia agrees) to mean those of a defined scripture-based faith living in such a legally Islamic area.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Cheynem » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:09 pm

The general way I've heard People of the Book being referred to is that they have to be from another, older monotheistic religion which would rule out say Hindus, who could in turn still be dhimmi. I'm certainly no expert, but I would interpret that to mean that People of the Book (like Jews and Christians) could be dhimmi, but dhimmi is more inclusive. I would say a prompt isn't out of the question, but it's not quite the correct concept.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:23 pm

Yeah, I've heard the concept of dhimmi discussed in the same context as Mike has. The Islamic content in this set was great, by the way (pillars bowl successfully avoided!) and I thought the Khomeini tossup was great - I only wish I hadn't negged with 'Reza Shah Pahlavi' on the first line. I guess multiple people can oppose the Tudeh party!
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:09 pm

A few other things:

Why, why, WHY is Acrisius still in power for Perseus? Almost everyone I talked to agreed with me. (Perhaps the same goes for Ishtar getting infected with many diseases.)

That Poe bonus was entirely too easy.

The turtle shell tossup seemed to be like, "Oh, if you majored in turtle studies you can power this. Otherwise, buzzer race."

Also, could someone post the Hecate tossup? It seemed to be well-written (my room only heard half of it before Itamar powered it) but not an answerline I'd expect to show up at MUT.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:18 pm

merv1618 wrote:Why, why, WHY is Acrisius still in power for Perseus? Almost everyone I talked to agreed with me. (Perhaps the same goes for Ishtar getting infected with many diseases.)

That Poe bonus was entirely too easy.
Sorry you knew some things, I guess?
merv1618 wrote:Also, could someone post the Hecate tossup? It seemed to be well-written (my room only heard half of it before Itamar powered it) but not an answerline I'd expect to show up at MUT.
In Packet 7, I wrote:14. During the Gigantomachy, this deity killed the giant Clytius. After Galinthias was punished for tricking Hera into allowing Alcmene to give birth by being transformed into a weasel, this deity took pity on her and made the weasel her sacred animal. The major cult site of this only child of Perses and Asteria was at Lagina, and she was often depicted holding a pair of torches, which she used to help (*) Demeter search for Persephone. This deity’s companions include Mormo, Empousa, and Lamia, and she was also often accompanied by a black dog. The most famous priestess of this goddess was the sorceress Medea. For 10 points, name this three-headed Greek goddess of crossroads and witchcraft.
ANSWER: Hecate
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:26 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
merv1618 wrote:Why, why, WHY is Acrisius still in power for Perseus? Almost everyone I talked to agreed with me. (Perhaps the same goes for Ishtar getting infected with many diseases.)

That Poe bonus was entirely too easy.
[/quote]

I just remember it being 15 in the majority of powermarked Perseus tossups I've seen in both high school and college.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Cheynem » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:34 pm

Am I parsing this wrong: you're saying it's a clue for power that is commonly a clue for power in other tossups?
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:44 pm

Cheynem wrote:Am I parsing this wrong: you're saying it's a clue for power that is commonly a clue for power in other tossups?
Well yeah, but mainly it's my understanding that almost everyone and their mother who studied Greco-Roman myth at the high school level knows that story about Perseus and the discus.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Cold Stone Steve Austin » Sun May 04, 2014 4:40 pm

I'm not too sure whether "start9" should be in power for Twitch Plays Pokemon; I think that if anyone even visited the site for a minute soon after anarchy vs democracy was implemented, they would see tons of "start9" spam. I would put it right after the Abby and Jay Leno clue.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun May 04, 2014 4:46 pm

Hidehiro Anto wrote:I'm not too sure whether "start9" should be in power for Twitch Plays Pokemon; I think that if anyone even visited the site for a minute soon after anarchy vs democracy was implemented, they would see tons of "start9" spam. I would put it right after the Abby and Jay Leno clue.
On the other hand, this was a joke tossup written primarily to amuse me and played for no points, so...
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) » Sun May 04, 2014 5:27 pm

Ukonvasara wrote:
Hidehiro Anto wrote:I'm not too sure whether "start9" should be in power for Twitch Plays Pokemon; I think that if anyone even visited the site for a minute soon after anarchy vs democracy was implemented, they would see tons of "start9" spam. I would put it right after the Abby and Jay Leno clue.
On the other hand, this was a joke tossup written primarily to amuse me and played for no points, so...
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Ndg » Sat May 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Can someone post the gel electrophoresis tossup? I negged with SDS-PAGE at the TEMED clue but can't remember if there were clues that specifically applied to non-PAGE techniques before that.

Also, I want to mention that the bonus on esoteric programming languages was delightful.
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon May 19, 2014 12:41 am

Ndg wrote:Can someone post the gel electrophoresis tossup? I negged with SDS-PAGE at the TEMED clue but can't remember if there were clues that specifically applied to non-PAGE techniques before that.
Ferguson plots can be used to analyze the results of this technique. One material sometimes used in this technique is made using a crosslinker such as APS or TEMED. The TBE and TAE buffers are commonly used in this technique. Proteins are sometimes denatured with sodium dodecyl sulfate prior to being analyzed using this technique. Fluorescent intercalating agents such as (*) ethidium bromide are used to stain the results of this technique. Standard markers used in this technique are referred to as “ladders.” The matrix used in this technique is typically composed of polyacrylamide or agarose. For 10 points, name this technique used to separate different sized fragments of nucleic acids by placing them in a gel matrix and subjecting them to an electric field.
ANSWER: gel electrophoresis [prompt on answers like “running a gel”]
I didn't know what Ferguson plots were until I read this question, but apparently you can use them to analyze SDS-PAGE data too.
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Peter13
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Re: Specific question discussion

Post by Peter13 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:12 am

For the Philippines question, wasn't it the father, not the grandfather that was assassinated in 1983?
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