VETO 2014

Old college threads.
User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:16 pm

Not that I'm the organizer, or anything, but just figured I'd put this here as it doesn't seem to get put on this forum much (apart from stimulating discussions about gumballs and chopsticks). It also might help avoid (or encourage, I suppose) scheduling conflicts.

This year's VETO will be held on July 12th, at the University of Toronto and the University of British Columbia.

It's free, a fun way to travel, and last year there were some pretty good prizes (I believe the top scorer in the West got a pair of handcuffs). As the tournament is packet submission, submitting a packet (even if you don't play) is extremely helpful. You might also learn things about Canada you will literally be better off not knowing.

I don't have a website to direct you to (yet), but if you're interested, feel free to send me a message.

Cheers!
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:14 am

While it is overwhelmingly likely that it will in fact occur on July 12, it is not 100% confirmed that the Toronto mirror will be on this date.

I might as well use this post for a Toronto field update. Based entirely on what I've heard from various people over the last little while:

Carleton/Nick et al. (1)
Ottawa/Dennis et al. (1)
Toronto/Meghan et al. (1)
Waterloo/Christine et al. (1)
The Indomitable Amy of Jay Misuk/Jay + Westmount (1)
McMaster/ Leslie et al. (1)
Lisgar Alumni/Patrick et al. (1)
Waterloo Alumni/Huma et al. (1)
B.E.E.R./Brock et al. (1)

It would be preferable to have an odd number of teams if possible. If you want to confirm your registration for this tournament, then feel free send me to an email at adosreme@gmail.com
Last edited by adosreme on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:34 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
Auron
Posts: 1942
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:55 pm

I'm thinking about going to this, since I'm on campus taking classes over the summer and may be inclined to make the road trip (with or without a friend) or fly out, assuming I can find reasonably priced tickets and/or get the school to fund the trip. In any case, are open teams allowed?
Will Alston
Bethesda Chevy Chase HS '12, Dartmouth '16, Columbia Business School '21
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor

cruzeiro
Wakka
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:32 am
Location: Waterloo/Toronto, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by cruzeiro » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:59 pm

gamegeek2 wrote:I'm thinking about going to this, since I'm on campus taking classes over the summer and may be inclined to make the road trip (with or without a friend) or fly out, assuming I can find reasonably priced tickets and/or get the school to fund the trip. In any case, are open teams allowed?
Open teams are the norm at VETO.
Dennis Beeby
Waterloo Collegiate Institute, 2011
University of Ottawa, 2016
Queen's University, 2017, 2019

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:09 pm

I would love to go, but no good team in their right mind would put me on their list. I don't know what to expect with VETO. I expect the sets to be guerrilla as always, and range from poor to excellent as they have done for the last couple iterations. I hope that over the summer I do a Subash, but I don't know how that is going to go. Anyways, hope to see you guys there.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
Auron
Posts: 1942
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:48 pm

Peter13 wrote:I would love to go, but no good team in their right mind would put me on their list. I don't know what to expect with VETO. I expect the sets to be guerrilla as always, and range from poor to excellent as they have done for the last couple iterations. I hope that over the summer I do a Subash, but I don't know how that is going to go. Anyways, hope to see you guys there.
Assuming I can make it, I'd play with you. I need somebody who can get points on bonuses that ask for three Canadian senators or something like that.
Will Alston
Bethesda Chevy Chase HS '12, Dartmouth '16, Columbia Business School '21
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:35 pm

gamegeek2 wrote:
Peter13 wrote:I would love to go, but no good team in their right mind would put me on their list. I don't know what to expect with VETO. I expect the sets to be guerrilla as always, and range from poor to excellent as they have done for the last couple iterations. I hope that over the summer I do a Subash, but I don't know how that is going to go. Anyways, hope to see you guys there.
Assuming I can make it, I'd play with you. I need somebody who can get points on bonuses that ask for three Canadian senators or something like that.
Thanks Will, but I don't think Canadians care as much on our senators, as I don't remember even in Reach or other very Canadian content rich packets about them. But there will be questions on weird Canadian geography or history which I might get.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
vetovian
Lulu
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:15 am
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by vetovian » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:42 am

We now have an official VETO website, here:
http://caql.org/events/veto14.html
Peter, SFU alumnus

User avatar
vetovian
Lulu
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:15 am
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by vetovian » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:51 am

gamegeek2 wrote:I need somebody who can get points on bonuses that ask for three Canadian senators or something like that.
For VETO in 2005, I wrote a visual bonus asking for Canadian senators, but most teams did poorly on it, even though they could choose from any of them:
http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/ve ... df#page=14
Peter, SFU alumnus

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Also, please note that the above linked page is pretty much used every year. As far as I know, there isn't actually an application process for playing in VETO that involves an invitation system. If you want to play, then just find a team, write a packet, and play.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
Masked Canadian History Bandit
Rikku
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:43 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Masked Canadian History Bandit » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:27 pm

vetovian wrote:
gamegeek2 wrote:I need somebody who can get points on bonuses that ask for three Canadian senators or something like that.
For VETO in 2005, I wrote a visual bonus asking for Canadian senators, but most teams did poorly on it, even though they could choose from any of them:
http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/ve ... df#page=14
I think most teams did poorly because you only gave them 15 seconds!
Patrick Liao
Lisgar Collegiate Institute 2011, University of Pennsylvania 2015, University of Toronto Faculty of Law 2019
President, Ontario Quizbowl Association (ONQBA)
Support the ONQBA on Facebook!

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:15 pm

I am just worried about the "Application process". I have never written questions before for an actual quizbowl tournament, so I couldn't email two old packets. What alternative could I do so I can have the opportunity to play?
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
Bartleby
Rikku
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:45 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Bartleby » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:19 pm

adosreme wrote:Also, please note that the above linked page is pretty much used every year. As far as I know, there isn't actually an application process for playing in VETO that involves an invitation system. If you want to play, then just find a team, write a packet, and play.
Peter: see above.

Emphasis mine.
Brian McNamara
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:28 pm

Sorry Brian. I just spent a while combing through the website, so the comments slipped through my grasp. Also, since we are talking about this, how often are "hidden themes" used? Thanks again.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:07 am

Not very often. And DON'T. It's tough to do well and skews the game towards the side which figures out the theme, regardless of skill. If you must (and nobody has for quite a while), keep it to a theme that isn't guessable until the 17th toss-up or later. Ignoring this advice earns ignominy.

And there was a toss-up last year on Canadian (Conservative) senators, which I wrote.
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:25 am

Don't worry, I won't do it. I feel it cheapens the fun of VETO. I just hope there isn't too many difficulty swings.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
Taper or die. Can you do any less?
Rikku
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:42 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Taper or die. Can you do any less? » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am

Every Waterloo pack will have multiple hidden themes. Ignominy is my middle name.
Aayush Rajasekaran (he/him or she/her)
University of Waterloo, 2016
University of Waterloo, 2018

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:14 pm

I'm going to put myself as a free agent for this; I know most sciences and can fake some fine arts and willing to contribute a fair share to a packet.

EDIT: I am writing a packet for this tournament with Nicholas Penner and Charles Korwin. Whether I am playing or not depends on my job, travel plans for Chicago Open, and the availability of rides, the latter two depend on the prices and times of VIA rail tickets.
Last edited by Benin Rebirth Party on Sun May 18, 2014 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Mon May 05, 2014 12:39 pm

Now that everyone's had time to plan, are there any teams formed? I plan on going to play in BC-any British Columbian/Washingtonian teams formed?
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Mike Bentley
Auron
Posts: 5778
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:03 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Mike Bentley » Mon May 05, 2014 2:16 pm

minusfive wrote:Now that everyone's had time to plan, are there any teams formed? I plan on going to play in BC-any British Columbian/Washingtonian teams formed?
There will be 2ish Seattle teams attending. Shoot me an e-mail at uwquizbowl@gmail.com
Mike Bentley
VP of Editing, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Fri May 16, 2014 3:36 pm

Do to a recent finding, my supposed sort-of set up team has now disintegrated, so I am now a free agent. My new mission is not be on the lowest scoring team, and not be the among the three lowest scoring players. Having a team that gets over 100 PPG (including bonuses) and individually scoring 5 PPG should do the trick.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
Senator_Jay
Wakka
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Hamilton, ON

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Senator_Jay » Wed May 28, 2014 7:30 pm

I could use a team for this. I've heard some interest from various peeps both on and off these forums. Anyone feel like joining my terrible team of troublemakers?
Jay Misuk
McMaster University, 2009, 2010, 2016
University of Toronto, 2011, 2017
MSc. (CogSciLing), Hon. BA (Linguistics), BA (History), BEd. (History, Geography, Music, Math)

Tri-national competitor; tri-national neg champion.
To quote the ephemeral Jordan Palmer - "There is no shame, only points"

User avatar
vetovian
Lulu
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:15 am
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by vetovian » Thu May 29, 2014 3:26 am

Peter13 wrote:I am just worried about the "Application process". I have never written questions before for an actual quizbowl tournament, so I couldn't email two old packets. What alternative could I do so I can have the opportunity to play?
Your best option would be to find teammates who qualify. If you're playing in Vancouver, we do require that every team have people who have previously written questions for a quizbowl tournament. We instituted this rule because there's no central editing, and we had some bad experiences with packets written by people who had never written a quizbowl packet before. Both the writers and the players of those packets felt bad about them. But I understand that in the Ontario mirror, this rule is not followed.
Peter, SFU alumnus

User avatar
vetovian
Lulu
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:15 am
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by vetovian » Thu May 29, 2014 3:28 am

Mike Bentley wrote:
minusfive wrote:Now that everyone's had time to plan, are there any teams formed? I plan on going to play in BC-any British Columbian/Washingtonian teams formed?
There will be 2ish Seattle teams attending. Shoot me an e-mail at uwquizbowl@gmail.com
There will also be a team of UBC alumni, I believe a team of Oregon alumni and a team of SFU alumni, and my team. So that's 3 or 4 more.
Peter, SFU alumnus

User avatar
Cody
2008-09 Male Athlete of the Year
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 am
Location: Richmond

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Cody » Thu May 29, 2014 6:13 am

vetovian wrote:We instituted this rule because there's no central editing, and we had some bad experiences with packets written by people who had never written a quizbowl packet before. Both the writers and the players of those packets felt bad about them. But I understand that in the Ontario mirror, this rule is not followed.
Yeah, this rule leads to truly stellar packet quality.
Cody Voight, VCU ‘14. I wrote lots of science and am an electrical engineer.
VCU Tournament Director ‘13-‘17. HSAPQ President ‘15-16.
Hero of Socialist Quizbowl Labor (NSC ‘14). “esteemed colleague” of Snap Wexley, ca. 2016. Stats Hero (Nats ‘16).
Quizbowl at VCU

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Thu May 29, 2014 12:30 pm

Pretty excited for a post-VETO Modern World shakedown...with sufficient levels of informality to comment on the set's avowed crappiness...
Cody wrote:Yeah, this rule leads to truly stellar packet quality.
The rule was instituted so that people would have to write (not a common thing in Canada) while trying to ensure a baseline of quality. Whether it works is a whole other question, but its motives are good. Plus, (as I've said for many years now), the real antidote to a perceived lack of enjoyment of VETO (which is in the eye of the beholder) is for "good quizbowl" practitioners to write packets and play...
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:53 pm

When will details be provided for packet submission? Who is directing this tournament and in charge of logistics and packet organization?

Also, I will be writing 10 or so meta questions or questions about things I like that are so silly they would never be tossed up in even an event like VETO; pending TD approval this will be used as tossup 0 much like the Cane Ridge Revival mirror.
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

User avatar
Masked Canadian History Bandit
Rikku
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:43 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Masked Canadian History Bandit » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:22 pm

I plan on playing this with Di Xiao (formerly of Lisgar and Berkeley) and anyone who wants to chip in on our packet and play with us is appreciated.
Patrick Liao
Lisgar Collegiate Institute 2011, University of Pennsylvania 2015, University of Toronto Faculty of Law 2019
President, Ontario Quizbowl Association (ONQBA)
Support the ONQBA on Facebook!

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:58 am

I've edited my post above (the second one in this thread) to be a field update for the Toronto site in case people have missed it. At this point, if you want to confirm a registration for the Toronto mirror, then feel free to shoot me an email at adosreme@gmail.com

Edit: I will confirm at our meeting this week that the rooms have been/are in the process of being booked.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:33 pm

Do we have any sort of (prospective) team list for this? As far as I know, the Vancouver site is looking good: who's playing with whom in Ontario?

PS: I heartily encourage amusing team names (don't just be "Waterloo, Mac, etc...")
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:00 pm

adosreme wrote:
Carleton/Nick et al. (1)
Ottawa/Dennis et al. (1)
Toronto/Meghan et al. (1)
Waterloo/players unconfirmed (1?)
McMaster (Alumni?)/Jay et al. (1)
Lisgar Alumni/Patrick et al. (1)
Waterloo Alumni/Huma et al. (1)
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:55 pm

Normally I'd hang my head in shame, but:
adosreme wrote:Based entirely on what I've heard from various people over the last little while:
So nope, this isn't a list. Nor is it a list of players.

Troll fail.
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:50 pm

minusfive wrote:
So nope, this isn't a list. Nor is it a list of players.

Troll fail.
Overly harsh and essentially incorrect, my apologies, Joe. But an expanded/verified list would be appreciated. I guess in late June, when the "deadline" is?

Also, who's planning on coming to VancouverETO?
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:07 pm

I am sad to see that my name has not been added to the list. I have recently finished my packet, and now I am just in the reviewing stage to make sure it is up to quality standards. So how will that work, will I just be a free agent? I really wish someone adds be to their team.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:17 am

minusfive wrote: Overly harsh and essentially incorrect, my apologies, Joe. But an expanded/verified list would be appreciated. I guess in late June, when the "deadline" is?
The field list has been updated. So far, Dennis has sent me confirmation and Toronto as well as both Waterloo teams are in the process of writing. All other teams are, as far as I know, coming but I can't confirm anything beyond that. I am also not posting rosters yet because (a) I don't know what they are, (b) I'm sure they won't be final until much closer to the tournament date, and (c) if the teams themselves haven't posted their rosters for whatever reason, I'm not going to preemptively post them based on hearsay.
Peter13 wrote:I am sad to see that my name has not been added to the list. I have recently finished my packet, and now I am just in the reviewing stage to make sure it is up to quality standards. So how will that work, will I just be a free agent? I really wish someone adds be to their team.
I've added your name to the field update. I wasn't aware that you were currently playing by yourself. Right now, we're looking at 8 teams, but we really need to have an odd number to ensure that we have byes. If this doesn't change, then we usually do some team merging/splitting to ensure that the schedule works out.
minusfive wrote:Troll fail.
Trolling...I do not think it means what you think it means.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
Senator_Jay
Wakka
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Hamilton, ON

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Senator_Jay » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:58 pm

So from the looks of things, I'm playing with some Westmount people, and there is a separate McMaster team of Leslie et al. That's all I can confirm at this point, other than I am in the process of writing another delicious pack for yall. The bonuses will be written by the high schoolers, so if you can get any tossups, there'll be some sweet points to get on those!
Jay Misuk
McMaster University, 2009, 2010, 2016
University of Toronto, 2011, 2017
MSc. (CogSciLing), Hon. BA (Linguistics), BA (History), BEd. (History, Geography, Music, Math)

Tri-national competitor; tri-national neg champion.
To quote the ephemeral Jordan Palmer - "There is no shame, only points"

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:32 pm

The field post has been updated. At this point I'd like to preserve the bye so I'm going to ask that, in the (in my estimation) unlikely event that another team wants to sign up, that they will have to do so in a way that keeps the field at an odd number of teams. (whether that is finding another team to join as well, though both will have to write, or merging with a team already in the field)

Information regarding where to send your packets and specific tournament location will be added when I have gotten it finalized.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
Cody
2008-09 Male Athlete of the Year
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 am
Location: Richmond

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Cody » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:11 pm

Senator_Jay wrote:No one has any obligation to play in any tournament. Either you allow for creativity and doing generally un-quizbowl-like things at a tournament like this, or you don't. Likewise, if you don't like VETO or the packets being made for it, then don't participate.
Hey, here's a thought: be creative, do "un-quizbowl-like things" (whatever that means), and write questions people will enjoy! Plenty of [side] events venture off the beaten path and manage to create good questions that are fun to play, somehow. What you're doing is antithetical to the whole pursuit of quizbowl. Don't try to excuse your obviously awful behavior with truisms that smack of Chip Beall.
Cody Voight, VCU ‘14. I wrote lots of science and am an electrical engineer.
VCU Tournament Director ‘13-‘17. HSAPQ President ‘15-16.
Hero of Socialist Quizbowl Labor (NSC ‘14). “esteemed colleague” of Snap Wexley, ca. 2016. Stats Hero (Nats ‘16).
Quizbowl at VCU

User avatar
the third garrideb
Wakka
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:49 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by the third garrideb » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:21 pm

Bartleby wrote:If people want a good summer tournament in Canada that is produced by Canadians, they should create one. Playing VETO and writing a good pack, and hoping against hope that everyone else does too is not the answer. The answer is to create something better, independently.
There was this, a while ago, that never got finished, but that I at least am still interested in working on: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13887&p=253821&hil ... tournament

Whether Canada Cup gets picked up again, or whether people want to work on something new, I am also in favour of helping add more good, Canadian-produced tournaments to our schedule.
Huma Zafar
University of Waterloo alumna

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:02 pm

I played (and liked) last year's packet by Jay, but I see why other people don't like it (just as I see why some people don't like quizbowl itself). I have more concerns with the writing style than the answer lines, which, of course, don't necessarily meet the criteria for DI SCT level.

What I will take issue with here are a few things:

1) The smugness: People can't write as well as you. They tried, but what's better than beating up a newb for their incapacities? Not everyone fits into this example, and many people have non-judgmentally tried to help people get better at writing, but at the end of the day, there isn't much more destructive than destructive criticism. I didn't write the gumballs bonus, but if I had my worst example of writing posted and re-posted and re-posted every year, I would probably ignore the people who did that, too. Looking at this thread, there are a lot of glass houses, but I don't want mine damaged, so I'll leave it at that.

2) The apathy: Every year, if I post an announcement, I ask for people to attend, or failing that, to help write, VETO. It is a free tournament, and they aren't going to turn down the amazing pack you just wrote for practice. But instead of doing that, why not just throw stuff at it? The number of people who can get away with the "we tried once in 2009 but it failed" is relatively small (and most of them are generous-minded enough and care about quizbowl enough to not hold that grudge). If *you* don't like the system, there are better options than just complaining. Again, a lot of the critics on here have either never read VETO, never been to VETO, or have never recently been to VETO. And the last "alternative to VETO" tournament saw its organizer skip the editing process and go lawnbowling the day of.

3) The doublethink:
I laud plans to make a new tournament. But why are you trying to destroy an old one at the same time?
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
minusfive
Rikku
Posts: 426
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:35 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: VETO 2014

Post by minusfive » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:06 pm

And I will say, Jay cut the best quizbowl heel promo I have seen in a while.
Jordan Palmer, Nick Penner's Hero.

Pass by, and curse thy fill, but pass and stay not here thy gait.

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:32 pm

Bartleby wrote:Here's an idea: stop playing this atrocious waste-of-time tournament.

I mean, I don't really think Jay's out of line to do whatever the hell he wants in his VETO packet; as he points out, this is a tournament that once had a bonus asking people to pick up candy with chopsticks. But, the very fact that this tournament encourages this type of ridiculousness should be a sign to everyone that it needs to be put out to pasture.

We have a Canadian quiz bowl circuit that's really coming into its own. Last year we hosted more tournaments and got better attendance at those tournaments than I can ever remember. If people think this tournament is fun, then they should absolutely do it -- I'm trying to avoid making a value judgement on this tournament compared to 'good' quiz bowl. When we have posts like Joe's, though, which basically accept a baseline level of terrible for VETO even if everyone writes at a consistent level of difficulty, I question how many people find this to be 'fun', and how many people do it because it's what's on offer, and better than nothing.

If people want a good summer tournament in Canada that is produced by Canadians, they should create one. Playing VETO and writing a good pack, and hoping against hope that everyone else does too is not the answer. The answer is to create something better, independently. I would certainly assist with and support such an attempt. If people want to keep playing VETO, then they should do that too. Let's just go into this with no illusions that VETO can or ever will be anything different than it is.
Just move Ottawa Hybrid to Summer, giving us a Canadian fun-but edited to the best of the editors ability-tournament and opening up a space in March to play real quizbowl! I would not have enjoyed playing unedited versions of the Ottawa Hybrid torunament, and VETO packets have the same problems. I think this idea can work out because 1) Hybrid allows more Trash than VETO does, allowing people to actually explore weird ideas without sacrificing any adacemic content and 2) Writers and Editors would probably have more time to make a better written tournament. 3) Let's Canadians, instead of writing and editing their own tournaments during the school year with no guidance, join a big project as a freelance writer to get experience with writing while being mentored by someone experienced who has produced exemplary sets in the past.
Cody wrote: Don't try to excuse your obviously awful behavior with truisms that smack of Chip Beall.
I've had enough experience with :chip: like questions in the past to want to attend VETO. I'm sure experienced people will have decent packets, but too much of the questions there will be of subpar quality. I'm reading the packets for 2012 VETO and there's a tossup on MS that begins with "Characterized by the gradual destruction of myelin".
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

User avatar
Bartleby
Rikku
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:45 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Bartleby » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:40 pm

minusfive wrote: 3) The doublethink:
I laud plans to make a new tournament. But why are you trying to destroy an old one at the same time?
My own personal opinions (that VETO isn't fantastic and probably shouldn't exist any more) aside, I think I made it pretty clear that as long as people continue to enjoy VETO for what it is (something that only, in the vaguest sense of the term, resembles a quiz bowl tournament), it should continue to exist. What I seriously question is whether or not a great many people who participate actually enjoy it, and at least a couple of posts by others in this thread would suggest that I'm not totally off-base.

My broader point is this: every year in Canada, people complain that VETO is terrible, and then go and play it anyway. The mindset seems to be that it might be terrible, but it's the best we have. I don't think we're going to turn the pumpkin into a carriage any time soon, because people seem to have wildly different ideas of what constitutes an appropriate submission for VETO. I'm sure there are plenty of packets that more or less follow 'good' quiz bowl standards, and then we have ones like Jay's, which, frankly, does not. And that's fine (again, as long as people are having fun), because that's what VETO is! My proposal is simply that people who want VETO to magically become a consistently 'good' tournament should abandon the idea that it could ever happen, and work instead to create a 'good' tournament. And again, if those people (or anyone else!) wanted to keep playing VETO as well, all the power to them!

I don't think this is doublethink in the least. People should do what they want -- they just shouldn't hold the idea that VETO is the only option.
Brian McNamara
Western University '13
University of Waterloo '14
Temple University '20

User avatar
Cody
2008-09 Male Athlete of the Year
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 am
Location: Richmond

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Cody » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:38 pm

minusfive wrote:2) The apathy: Every year, if I post an announcement, I ask for people to attend, or failing that, to help write, VETO. It is a free tournament, and they aren't going to turn down the amazing pack you just wrote for practice. But instead of doing that, why not just throw stuff at it? The number of people who can get away with the "we tried once in 2009 but it failed" is relatively small (and most of them are generous-minded enough and care about quizbowl enough to not hold that grudge). If *you* don't like the system, there are better options than just complaining. Again, a lot of the critics on here have either never read VETO, never been to VETO, or have never recently been to VETO. And the last "alternative to VETO" tournament saw its organizer skip the editing process and go lawnbowling the day of.
I've read plenty of VETO (incl. the most recent) and would never ever play or contribute a single question to it. I don't play quizbowl so I can be punished by the absolute stupidest variety of questions (and I don't mean the Canadian flavor, which I am always delighted by: it's part of why I love reading Ottawa Hybrid every year) - I play quizbowl to have fun. But my problems with VETO have little to do with my problems with Jay Misuk's stated predilections except insofar that it indulges them.

Plenty of guerilla tournaments have met some standard of acceptability, but VETO never will because of who participates and organizes it. That can't be fixed with the existing system. Burn it to the ground.
Cody Voight, VCU ‘14. I wrote lots of science and am an electrical engineer.
VCU Tournament Director ‘13-‘17. HSAPQ President ‘15-16.
Hero of Socialist Quizbowl Labor (NSC ‘14). “esteemed colleague” of Snap Wexley, ca. 2016. Stats Hero (Nats ‘16).
Quizbowl at VCU

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:51 pm

Final details cross-posted from the Facebook event for the Toronto mirror:

For Toronto teams, once your packets are done, send them to Peter McCorquodale at tak_seorangpun at yahoo dot com with your packet and any other files (audio clips, pictures, etc.) as attachments. Note that the due date is still at a reasonable hour on Friday, where reasonable is defined as early enough that he can chase you down if he needs to and still get the packets to me by Saturday morning. (Vancouver teams should send their packets to me at (my username)@gmail.com)

The tournament will be in Sidney Smith hall, with the control room being SS2101. For those of you that attended ACF Regionals, this is the same building that we were in for that tournament and the control room is that same double room as last time.

The tournament will be starting at 9am. All teams should show up in SS2101 no later than 8:30 so that we can get the games going by 9. We only have the rooms until 6pm and VETO rounds tend to take a little longer than traditional quizbowl rounds, so please, please, please, please don't be late.

If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Otherwise, see you all on Saturday!

Edit: Toronto packets should also be sent to josoo -at- me -dot- com in addition to Peter's email address above. Jo will be compiling the Toronto packets with Peter serving as a backup in case anything goes wrong.
Last edited by adosreme on Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
theMoMA
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5686
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:00 am

Re: VETO 2014

Post by theMoMA » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:23 pm

Packet discussion split and moved to the discussion forum here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16085

A couple posts were so inane as to be FZ'd.
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum

User avatar
Peter13
Wakka
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Peter13 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:57 pm

I would like to thank everyone involved at the Ontario site for a fun and esoteric summer tournament that I really enjoyed. I feel like everything was very well done and ran on a pretty tight-ship as guerrilla tournaments go, but that did not take away from its charm. My only regret was to make the packet a bit harder.
Peter Cordeiro
McMaster University, 2019 +/-1
Interim President of the ONQBA
Newest Accomplishment: SCT @ Waterloo - Scored over 40PPG on a Full Team

User avatar
adosreme
Rikku
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: VETO 2014

Post by adosreme » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:19 am

We had 9 teams at the Toronto site. After the round robin, the leaders were the Masked Canadian Victory Bandits with a 7-1 records, followed by a tie between B2ER and I've Got 72 Revolutions But A Bitch Ain't One at 6-2. 72 Revolutions won the tiebreaker and ended up facing the Victory Bandits down a game in the advantaged final. After losing the first game, the Bandits came back and won the second game 275-250 to take the 2014 VETO East title.

I'd like to thank everyone who showed up and put up with me through the various logistic difficulties that arose. I hope you all had fun and I also hope to see you again next year!

Stats can be found within the tournament listing at http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournaments/2273/
Aaron Dos Remedios
Formerly of the Waterloo School of Abstruse Canadian Inside Jokes (University of Waterloo)

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: VETO 2014

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:15 am

Could you please include round report? I'm curious to see the difficulty variance in these packets.
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

User avatar
p-vs-vp
Lulu
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Waterloo
Contact:

Re: VETO 2014

Post by p-vs-vp » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:51 am

Thanks Aaron for directing, and everyone for both staffing and writing enjoyable packets! It was my first VETO, and I had a really fun time.
Last edited by p-vs-vp on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Arjun Sondhi
VP of Public Relations, Leslie's Miscellaneous Treats
University of Washington, 2014-present
University of Waterloo, 2009-2014

"Can you dance like a hippogriff?
Ma ma ma, ma ma ma, ma ma ma"


But I WANT to be stupid!

Locked