Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

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Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:57 pm

This is your specific-question discussion for the 2015 DII ICT.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Cold Stone Steve Austin » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:56 pm

The Nyx tossup claimed that she and her sister produced Hemera, and I was like, Erebus is a woman? Luckily I didn't neg with Erebus because the tossup asked for the counterpart to Hemera.
The tossup on ivory is somewhat ambiguous because in the Aeneid, one door of the portal was made out of ivory while the other door was out of ebony, so it would've helped to specify that it isn't ebony.
In my opinion, the answer line of the Hidden Imam/Twelfth Imam is not very good, because everyone calls him by his actual name, which is the Mahdi. I think it would've been better not to mention the Mahdi in the tossup, or even leaving out the Muhammad part of Muhammad al-Muntazar, and then including "_Muhammad_ (ibn Hasan) _al-Mahdi_ (prompt on "(al-)Mahdi")" or something like that in the answer line. After the word "occultation," I began to buzz but by the time I finished, the reader already said Mahdi so I was confused about what to say, said Mahdi anyway, and was negged.

EDIT: Never mind about the ivory, the other gate is horn not ebony, and Aeneas went through the ivory gate instead of the horn one.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Corry » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:13 am

Overall I liked the set. The only comment that comes to mind immediately was that John Andre is a really really hard answer line for a DII tossup.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by setht » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:45 am

Hidehiro Anto wrote:The Nyx tossup claimed that she and her sister produced Hemera, and I was like, Erebus is a woman? Luckily I didn't neg with Erebus because the tossup asked for the counterpart to Hemera.
This was caught and fixed in DI (I changed "sister" to "sibling") but I messed up and didn't fix the converted question in DII. I apologize for that.
Hidehiro Anto wrote:In my opinion, the answer line of the Hidden Imam/Twelfth Imam is not very good, because everyone calls him by his actual name, which is the Mahdi. I think it would've been better not to mention the Mahdi in the tossup, or even leaving out the Muhammad part of Muhammad al-Muntazar, and then including "_Muhammad_ (ibn Hasan) _al-Mahdi_ (prompt on "(al-)Mahdi")" or something like that in the answer line. After the word "occultation," I began to buzz but by the time I finished, the reader already said Mahdi so I was confused about what to say, said Mahdi anyway, and was negged.
The same issue dinged a bunch of teams in DI. One team protested that the Mahdi should have been accepted on a buzz before "Mahdi," and we ended up ruling that that answer should in fact have been accepted at that point. (Perhaps I should say "one team protested and the protest mattered for the outcome of the match"—I don't know if there were other protests that weren't reported because they didn't affect outcomes.)

The reason the answer line originally directed moderators to prompt on "the Mahdi" is that different traditions have different ideas about who fills that role. The tossup was not a question on "the Mahdi in various traditions," it was a tossup on "the twelfth imam (who is the Mahdi in a particular tradition)," so "the Mahdi" is correct but ambiguous and we should prompt. However, when we gathered to review the protest, we realized that all the clues were drawn from the (Twelver) Shia tradition, and within that context, "the Mahdi" unambiguously identifies the intended answer.

I hope that makes sense, and I apologize for not catching and fixing this.

-Seth
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by shmno » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:34 pm

Could I see the "electrophile" toss-up? I remember answering "acylium ion" early on and expecting to be prompted for either "cation" or "electrophile."
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:56 pm

2015 DII ICT round 10 wrote:A cationic example of these species forms in Friedel-Crafts acylation when the catalyst removes a halide from another compound. The Parr index measures these species, which include dibromine when it forms a pi complex with an alkene. These species with low-energy (*) LUMOs participate in aromatic substitutions. For 10 points--name these compounds that accept electrons from nucleophiles.

answer: _electrophile_s or _electrophilic_ substances (accept _Lewis acid_s; do not prompt on "acid")
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by 1.82 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:36 am

The tossup on Mies van der Rohe called for prompting on "van der Rohe". Is this accepted practice? It struck me as excessive, since "van der Rohe" is not Mies's name.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:42 am

That is indeed NAQT's standard practice. (On the theory that it is possible to read about his architecture while being uncertain whether "Mies" is a middle name or a surname.)
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Vinjance » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:02 pm

For the chair conformation question, I was prompted multiple times and was surprised that the answerline was that specific. I believe the Hilbert's problems question mentioned the Riemann hypothesis before it was clear the question wasn't looking for the Millennium Prize problems. I negged on the selenium question thinking the question mentioned the AUG codon, but I guess this was UGA instead. Could I see these three questions?
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:25 pm

2015 DII ICT round 6 wrote:Four equivalents of this structure are fused together in the molecule adamantane. When this structure contains a heteroatom, another heteroatom on an adjacent carbon will adopt the more sterically hindered position in the anomeric effect. This structure can (*) "flip," making its axial substituents become equatorial and vice versa. For 10 points--name this conformation of cyclohexane, which is more stable than the boat.

answer: _chair_ conformation of cyclohexane (prompt on answers including "cyclohexane" and/or "ring(s)" before "cyclohexane")
2015 DII ICT round 3 wrote:This list excluded a request for a method to determine whether a given proof was as simple as possible, but included a query, answered negatively by Matiyasevich's theorem, about an algorithm for all (*) Diophantine equations. It also includes the Riemann hypothesis, which remains unresolved and is also a Millennium Prize Problem. It was suggested that 20th-century mathematicians focus on--for 10 points--what 23 problems?

answer: _Hilbert_'s (23) problems [The first problem mentioned was included in early drafts but did not make the final cut, and is now called the 24th problem.]
2015 DII ICT round 9 wrote:This element is hyperaccumulated by the plant Astragalus. This element is found in the active sites of deiodinase and glutathione peroxidase; it appears in an amino acid that uses the codon UGA. Its disulfide is used as topical therapy for tinea versicolor and in some (*) shampoos to control dandruff. For 10 points--name this element found in an analog of the thiol-containing cysteine, which has the atomic symbol Se.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Corry » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:28 am

Now that I think about it, Hilbert's Problem strikes me as another answer line that wouldn't be converted very well in DII. After all, the tossup on Hilbert's in last year's HSNCT only had a 22% conversion rate.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Lo, a momentary rabbit-stage » Mon May 25, 2015 5:41 pm

There were a couple of tossups that felt very on the difficult side - it's my understanding that at least some of them came about as a result of just writing alternate versions of D1 questions with answerlines that didn't really fit D2, but I'm still curious about seeing them as my disbelief about the answerline kind of prevented me from buzzing or really remembering the clues.

Specifically, I'd like to see the Enuma Elish tossup (which, from my hazy memory, it would be very hard to know the answerline without knowing most of the clues used), the Nyx tossup, and the I and Thou tossup.

I'm also curious as to why the Rhea tossup didn't have a prompt or accept on Cybele, due to the syncretization that occurred. I'm not an expert on that, but it was a little annoying to be negged when answering Cybele, and I'm curious if the only reason that happened is because the first line made it technically unique.
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Re: Question-specific discussion: 2015 Division II ICT

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon May 25, 2015 5:48 pm

2015 DII ICT round 3 wrote:An evil adviser in this work is led by a nose-rope after his master is hit with a sleep spell and killed. The raising of the Esagila ends this work, whose characters include the vizier Mummu. In it, a four-eared, four-eyed god battles forces led by (*) Kingu, whose blood is used to create mankind. An arrow slices Tiamat in half and the gods name Marduk their king in--for 10 points--what Babylonian creation epic?
(this one at least was not a conversion from Division II)
2015 DII ICT round 2 wrote:In Hesiod's Theogony this deity's solo progeny include Apate, the goddess of deceit, and Momus, the god of mockery, while she and her sister together produce her counterpart Hemera, who always (*) leaves Tartarus just as this goddess enters. In the Theogony, this primeval goddess is the daughter of Chaos and is the sister of Erebus. For 10 points--name this Greek goddess of night.
2015 DII ICT round 12 wrote:This book's "Afterword" discusses the author's encounter with a Doric column at a church in Syracuse. This work, which claims that "the world does not participate in experience," argues that "basic words" establish "a mode of existence" and centers on two (*) "word pairs" describing man's "twofold attitude." For 10 points--name this book about man's relationship with God, written by Martin Buber and titled by two personal pronouns.
2015 DII ICT round 13 wrote:This figure shares her name with a priestess who was the mother, by Hercules, of Aventinus in the Aeneid. As this goddess pressed the earth during childbirth, she created the Dactyls. This counterpart of the Roman goddess Ops had a group of dancers clash their (*) shields to drown out the cries of her youngest child after she gave a swaddled stone to her husband. For 10 points--name this Titaness who was married to Kronos.

answer: _Rhea_ (do not accept "Rhea Silvia")
(the first sentence indeed rules out certain alternate answers)
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"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred

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