Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

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Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:39 pm

Feel free to post about specific questions here.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by njsbling » Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:56 pm

Round 6 Bonus 8: "Finnish" is mentioned in part 1 and "Finland" is the answer to part 3. Probably want to change that.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by sonstige » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:03 pm

Probably in Round 10 or 11, the Velazquez bonus had an answerline I believe of "red cross" --- one of my teammates thought the answer should have accepted "St James's Cross" or at least had the question been phrased to say something like "this object of this color" (or equivalent to establish that you wanted a cross that was red).

Without the question in front of me, I don't recall exactly how that bonus part was worded, so it may be OK as-is and we just misheard it.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by sonstige » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:07 pm

Also, for the AAVE question (also towards round 10 or 11) --- I answered "Ebonics," was given a pause, and then it was accepted. Not sure if this was an alternate answer, or the moderator made a decision on the spot that "Ebonics" was equivalent.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Everyman » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:14 pm

There was a question on Eliot that mentioned her translation of Feuerbach and one on Feuerbach that mentioned his work being translated by Eliot.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:15 pm

Sorry about the wacky unedited Oe bonus making it into the set; that was the result of a miscommunication that's pretty much my fault.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by aseem.keyal » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:05 pm

The second clue in the tossup on Benny Goodman should be corrected to read "radio show" instead of "television show".
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by theMoMA » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:44 pm

The first bonus part in one bonus mentioned "Yiddish," then the second bonus part was on "Yiddish."
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Ben Salter » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:53 am

If I recall correctly, there were 2 bonus sets on fluid dynamics, both of which used "incompressibility" as an answer line. I suppose this isn't necessarily wrong on principle, but it did strike me as somewhat strange.

On an unrelated note, would it be possible to see the tossup on _eigenvalues_ please? I may have misheard it, but I seem to recall it having a somewhat ambiguous clue.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Evan Lynch » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:39 am

I've been waiting my whole life for a bonus set on Parade's End!

Beyond that, I'd quite like to see the 'sterics' question again as the first line seemed unusually transparent and Arrhenius-related.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:15 am

All of the changes suggested in this thread (except the Eliot thing, because for some reason I can't find it), have been made.
Round 10 TU 1 wrote: The cross section of reactive collisions over the total number of collisions gives a “factor” named this, which is multiplied by the collision frequency to find the pre-exponential factor. Auxiliary groups can direct addition to the re or si face of a compound through this effect. A term for this kind of interaction symbolized with a lowercase delta was added to the Hammett equation by Taft. The Hoffmann product is preferred over the Zaitsev product in eliminations using bases that use this effect, like (*) tert-butoxide. It’s not hyperconjugation, but this effect is the reason staggered conformers are preferred to eclipsed ones. This effect is the reason why SN2 reactions are very slow in tertiary systems. For 10 points, name this effect in which bulky functional groups interfere with each other.
ANSWER: steric effects [or steric hindrance or steric resistance]
Round 1 TU 7 wrote: The algebraic connectivity of a graph can be found by calculating one of these for the graph Laplacian. One algorithm for finding these things in big O of n-squared involves iteratively factoring an input into an orthogonal and triangular component. A condition for all of them to have negative real parts is given by Lyapunov’s first theorem. One theorem states that each of these lies within one Gershgorin disc. By definition, their algebraic multiplicity must be greater than their (*) geometric multiplicity, and their sum is equal to the trace. The collection of these things is called an operator’s spectrum. They are always real for Hermitian operators. These values are the roots of the characteristic polynomial. For 10 points, name these values for a square matrix, which are the constant multiple that appears when multiplying that matrix with an eigenvector.
ANSWER: eigenvalue
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Evan Lynch » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:44 am

Round 10 TU 1 wrote: The cross section of reactive collisions over the total number of collisions gives a “factor” named this, which is multiplied by the collision frequency to find the pre-exponential factor. Auxiliary groups can direct addition to the re or si face of a compound through this effect. A term for this kind of interaction symbolized with a lowercase delta was added to the Hammett equation by Taft. The Hoffmann product is preferred over the Zaitsev product in eliminations using bases that use this effect, like (*) tert-butoxide. It’s not hyperconjugation, but this effect is the reason staggered conformers are preferred to eclipsed ones. This effect is the reason why SN2 reactions are very slow in tertiary systems. For 10 points, name this effect in which bulky functional groups interfere with each other.
ANSWER: steric effects [or steric hindrance or steric resistance]
Maybe this is just me, but I think the lead-in is somewhat easier than the next two clues (based off my undergrad - I'm not familiar with clues 2 and 3). The fact that the pre-exponential factor is the product of the steric factor and collision frequency is usually just out of power on Arrhenius equation tossups, so I was surprised to see something so recognisable come up in virtually the first line.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:45 am

Evan Lynch wrote:Maybe this is just me, but I think the lead-in is somewhat easier than the next two clues (based off my undergrad - I'm not familiar with clues 2 and 3). The fact that the pre-exponential factor is the product of the steric factor and collision frequency is usually just out of power on Arrhenius equation tossups, so I was surprised to see something so recognisable come up in virtually the first line.
Yeah this was a conscious choice on my part, because the other clues have been coming up a lot lately and I wanted to reward actual knowledge of the material over packet memorization, but I might have overshot it a little
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by theMoMA » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:24 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:All of the changes suggested in this thread (except the Eliot thing, because for some reason I can't find it), have been made.
The two Eliot questions were in the same packet; one was a bonus on Feuerbach, the other (which came later in the packet, unfortunately) was a tossup on Eliot stating that she had translated Strauss's Life of Jesus, Critically Examined and Feuerbach's The Essence of Christianity.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:52 pm

theMoMA wrote:
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:All of the changes suggested in this thread (except the Eliot thing, because for some reason I can't find it), have been made.
The two Eliot questions were in the same packet; one was a bonus on Feuerbach, the other (which came later in the packet, unfortunately) was a tossup on Eliot stating that she had translated Strauss's Life of Jesus, Critically Examined and Feuerbach's The Essence of Christianity.
Thanks, found it. Fixed
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Ben Salter » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:14 pm

Round 1 TU 7 wrote: The algebraic connectivity of a graph can be found by calculating one of these for the graph Laplacian. One algorithm for finding these things in big O of n-squared involves iteratively factoring an input into an orthogonal and triangular component. A condition for all of them to have negative real parts is given by Lyapunov’s first theorem. One theorem states that each of these lies within one Gershgorin disc. By definition, their algebraic multiplicity must be greater than their (*) geometric multiplicity, and their sum is equal to the trace. The collection of these things is called an operator’s spectrum. They are always real for Hermitian operators. These values are the roots of the characteristic polynomial. For 10 points, name these values for a square matrix, which are the constant multiple that appears when multiplying that matrix with an eigenvector.
ANSWER: eigenvalue
So this isn't the problem I thought was there (which turned out to be fine), and it's a fairly small point, but for a general operator, the spectrum is not equal to the set of eigenvalues. Specifically, the spectrum is only equal to the set of eigenvalues when working with operators/matrices on finite-dimensional spaces - for operators on infinite-dimensional spaces, the spectrum can be and often is larger than the set of eigenvalues. It's not like anyone is going to neg after that clue with "spectral elements" or something crazy, but for the sake of correctness, I felt I should mention it.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Mnemosyne » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:44 pm

The Culhwch and Olwen bonus says both "this story" and "this man". I said Culhwch and was thankfully prompted, but that could cause trouble somewhere.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:53 pm

Fixed both the eigenvalue and Culwch issue, keep em coming
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:31 pm

Can I see the residual tossup?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Evan Lynch » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:33 pm

I didn't write down many specific answerlines at the weekend so I can't really remember issues with questions until I see the set, but I do recall a bonus on West Germanic languages being mangled grammatically making it difficult for mods. Also whoever wrote the Firefly tossup needs a medal. :)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Mnemosyne » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:52 pm

I didn't notice this live, but apparently the Parmagianino bonus gives the alternate answer with St. Jerome in it (needs a "do not read" warning), then gives the title for Vision of St. Jerome in the second part, then asks for Jerome for the third part, by describing Vision of St. Jerome.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:58 pm

Round 5 TU 7 wrote:Autocorrelation in these values can be dealt with by the Durbin-Watson statistic. The vector of these values is equal to the product of the quantity identity matrix minus hat matrix all times the response vector. If a plot of these things appears U-shaped, adding a square of a variable to the model may help. These values are divided by an estimate of the standard deviation to find their “studentized” variety. The fact that n of these only have n minus one degrees of freedom leads to Bessel’s correction for finding the (*) population standard deviation. The best linear unbiased estimator is a test statistic that consists of the sum of the square of these values, according to the Gauss-Markov theorem. They can represent estimates of the unobservable error. For 10 points, name these values that appear in a regression analysis, which are the distances between the best-fit curve and the data points.
ANSWER: residuals [do NOT accept “errors” or “deviations”]
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:02 pm

Evan Lynch wrote:I didn't write down many specific answerlines at the weekend so I can't really remember issues with questions until I see the set, but I do recall a bonus on West Germanic languages being mangled grammatically making it difficult for mods. Also whoever wrote the Firefly tossup needs a medal. :)
Fixed this and the West Germanic thing. And you can thank Jaimie Carlson for that tossup
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Muriel Axon » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:13 pm

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:
Round 5 TU 7 wrote:Autocorrelation in these values can be dealt with by the Durbin-Watson statistic. The vector of these values is equal to the product of the quantity identity matrix minus hat matrix all times the response vector. If a plot of these things appears U-shaped, adding a square of a variable to the model may help. These values are divided by an estimate of the standard deviation to find their “studentized” variety. The fact that n of these only have n minus one degrees of freedom leads to Bessel’s correction for finding the (*) population standard deviation. The best linear unbiased estimator is a test statistic that consists of the sum of the square of these values, according to the Gauss-Markov theorem. They can represent estimates of the unobservable error. For 10 points, name these values that appear in a regression analysis, which are the distances between the best-fit curve and the data points.
ANSWER: residuals [do NOT accept “errors” or “deviations”]
To nitpick, I might suggest that putting the Bessel's correction clue before the residual plot clue might help. There are not a whole lot of things in statistics that (1) can be plotted to evaluate model fit, and (2) would be remotely appropriate for this tournament. (I also think studentized residuals are more famous than the role of residuals in Bessel's correction, but I'm not sure.)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Ben Salter » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:34 am

Could I see the "Sonata in B minor" bonus set please?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:16 pm

Ben Salter wrote:Could I see the "Sonata in B minor" bonus set please?
This piece shares its key and genre with Alban Berg’s Op. 1. For 10 points each:
[10] Name this 1853 piano piece whose four interconnected sections serve as both an exposition, development, recapitulation, and as the movements of a symphony.
ANSWER: Piano Sonata in B minor [DONT READ THIS OUT LOUD but accept Franz Liszt’s piano sonata; prompt on partial answer]
[10] This virtuoso pianist and composer wrote the Piano Sonata in B minor and the Hungarian Rhapsodies.
ANSWER: Franz Liszt [or Liszt Ferenc]
[10] The Bagatelle sans tonalité is sometimes grouped with this set of Liszt piano compositions, whose opening piece begins with a sequence of stacked fifths that represents the title character tuning his fiddle.
ANSWER: Mephisto Waltzes [or Mephisto-Walzer]
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Ben Salter » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:35 pm

This piece shares its key and genre with Alban Berg’s Op. 1. For 10 points each:
[10] Name this 1853 piano piece whose four interconnected sections serve as both an exposition, development, recapitulation, and as the movements of a symphony.
ANSWER: Piano Sonata in B minor [DONT READ THIS OUT LOUD but accept Franz Liszt’s piano sonata; prompt on partial answer]
[10] This virtuoso pianist and composer wrote the Piano Sonata in B minor and the Hungarian Rhapsodies.
ANSWER: Franz Liszt [or Liszt Ferenc]
[10] The Bagatelle sans tonalité is sometimes grouped with this set of Liszt piano compositions, whose opening piece begins with a sequence of stacked fifths that represents the title character tuning his fiddle.
ANSWER: Mephisto Waltzes [or Mephisto-Walzer]
So in our room, the moderator read out "Liszt's Piano Sonata in B minor" as the answer to the first part, so I guess he didn't see the warning there. I also feel that the first part could do with a little elaboration/rewording - it's written in such a way that it certainly wasn't clear to me when it was being read that it was trying to describe the piece as being in double-function form, though I suppose the omission of that phrase was intentional. It could just be my fault, and I'd be interested to hear how other people interpreted that clue, because I (incorrectly) just parsed it as "this piece is in sonata form, a bit like a symphony".
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Eddie » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:49 pm

Ben Salter wrote:
This piece shares its key and genre with Alban Berg’s Op. 1. For 10 points each:
[10] Name this 1853 piano piece whose four interconnected sections serve as both an exposition, development, recapitulation, and as the movements of a symphony.
ANSWER: Piano Sonata in B minor [DONT READ THIS OUT LOUD but accept Franz Liszt’s piano sonata; prompt on partial answer]
[10] This virtuoso pianist and composer wrote the Piano Sonata in B minor and the Hungarian Rhapsodies.
ANSWER: Franz Liszt [or Liszt Ferenc]
[10] The Bagatelle sans tonalité is sometimes grouped with this set of Liszt piano compositions, whose opening piece begins with a sequence of stacked fifths that represents the title character tuning his fiddle.
ANSWER: Mephisto Waltzes [or Mephisto-Walzer]
So in our room, the moderator read out "Liszt's Piano Sonata in B minor" as the answer to the first part, so I guess he didn't see the warning there. I also feel that the first part could do with a little elaboration/rewording - it's written in such a way that it certainly wasn't clear to me when it was being read that it was trying to describe the piece as being in double-function form, though I suppose the omission of that phrase was intentional. It could just be my fault, and I'd be interested to hear how other people interpreted that clue, because I (incorrectly) just parsed it as "this piece is in sonata form, a bit like a symphony".
How's this modification to the first bonus part?
5. Zoltán Kodály (ZOHL-tahn KOH-dye) used this key to write a solo sonata for a cello whose bottom two strings are each tuned down a half step. For 10 points each:
[10] Name this key used to write a one-movement piano piece whose four interconnected sections behave simultaneously as the four movements of a symphony, and as an exposition, development, and recapitulation.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Muriel Axon » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:26 am

Eddie, I don't think that bonus part needs to be entirely rewritten. (Actually, I thought it was totally fine, but that may just be me.) Anyway, I think all Ben's saying is that you might consider using the actual word "double-function form." The addition of "one-movement" is good, though.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Guile Island » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:55 pm

After seeing the whole question, I feel that the tossup on "Slavic Mythology" could use a better giveway. This could be ignorance on my part, but I did not actually recognize any of the clues after I buzzed at the mention of rusalkas. Perhaps you could add something about Baba Yaga, who seems to be the Slavic mythological figure most people recognize due to Mussorgsky/generally being memorable.

Another one: The tossup on Solomon should probably prompt on "Koheleth," since that's the pseudonym Solomon always uses to refer to himself in Ecclesiastes, which is the source of at least one clue in the tossup. You could even make an argument for prompting on a buzz of "Ecclesiastes" since it's the Greek translation of Solomon's pseudonym, but I'm much less sure about the promptability of that answer.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Eddie » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:18 pm

Muriel Axon wrote:Eddie, I don't think that bonus part needs to be entirely rewritten. (Actually, I thought it was totally fine, but that may just be me.) Anyway, I think all Ben's saying is that you might consider using the actual word "double-function form." The addition of "one-movement" is good, though.
That bonus part's been fixed to include "double-function form," but I think I'd like to keep the new version because (a) the Kodaly lead-in is probably more helpful than the Berg lead-in and (b) I've always heard the piece called the "Piano Sonata in B minor," so I don't think it's a significant leap in difficulty to ask for the key instead.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Evan Lynch » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:50 pm

Could I see the tossup on fragile-x syndrome please?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:06 pm

Evan Lynch wrote:Could I see the tossup on fragile-x syndrome please?
Round 8 TU 7 wrote:The gene mutated in this syndrome is overexpressed in an associated ataxia/tremor syndrome. Experimental drugs to treat this condition like basim-glurant and mavo-glurant target the mGluR5 (EM-glue-ARE five) receptor. Neurons of sufferers of this disease have abnormally long and thin dendritic spines. Sufferers of this disease have characteristic protruding ears, elongated face, and (*) macro-orchidism. This disease is the most common inherited form of mental retardation and is caused by the expansion of C-G-G repeats in the F-M-R-1 gene, which causes a staining discontinuity in the q-twenty-seven-point-three region of a certain structure. For 10 points, name this genetic disease in which one of the sex chromosomes appears easily breakable on karyotype.
ANSWER: Fragile X syndrome [or Martin-Bell syndrome or Escalante syndrome]
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by wcheng » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:21 pm

I remember answering a bonus part about the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth with "Polish-Lithuanian," which the moderator didn't accept because the answerline was "Poland-Lithuania." Since it's usually called the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and it was already described as a commonwealth in the question, I feel like "Polish-Lithuanian" should be acceptable.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:31 pm

I think there were two different bonus parts on incompressibility.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:56 am

Also, to save me the trouble of finding the location in the set, does anyone know the round of the Trunks question? Jeez, that one came out of left field.

And, it was decision that favored our team, but I'm interested to hear why reflection wasn't promptable for total internal reflection (or at what point it ceased being promptable).
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Milhouse » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:05 pm

I was prompted on that towards the end (the fiber optics clue, I think).

Edit: Also I think the Dragon Ball question was in round 7.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:52 pm

Just remembered the umbrella question as well. Was there a conscious decision not to include "Description acceptable" at the beginning of the question, since it apparently was? A few other questions did that, and I was happy they did. Did the editor feel it would have generated even more transparency, or was that just an oversight?

To explain why I ask, I and two (three?) other members of the team realized the event being described around where power ended, but two of us sat on it for a considerable time since we didn't remember the target's name. But the third player realized he could just buzz with "umbrella assassination," and we were very impressed he was clever enough to realize he could just buzz with that.

Also, was Fourier transform ever acceptable in place of Fourier series?
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by vinteuil » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:24 pm

The question on Chinese music described a notation style (numbers for scale degrees, dots for octaves below and above) that is extremely common in notating non-western musics (Indian, Indonesian, and Japanese music all use it, at least).

The question on "3" began with a clue that is at best ambiguous, since the German augmented 6th chord is often spelled with #2 instead of b3 (and b3 is not really the same as scale degree 3, in major mode).
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Victor Prieto » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:47 pm

I gave an answer of "BVE" for the African American Vernacular English tossup, which was curiously accepted despite not being an acceptable answer according to the tossup (which it is). I guess I had a heads-up reader, but Black Vernacular English is a word order that it is commonly referred to, so I'd recommend putting that into the answerline.

EDIT: This same heads-up reader also prompted me when I said "devil" on the tossup on Satan from Paradise Lost. I presume that's an acceptable prompt, too, but it's not in the answerline.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:57 pm

Speaking of the AAVE tossup, a substantial portion of the non-study linguistics clues in that tossup were not uniquely identifying at all, largely because AAVE is extremely phonologically and grammatically similar to dialects spoken in the Southern United States.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by peachykeen » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:05 pm

Can I see the aesthetics question? I sat on it, but as a non philosophy person, I was thinking aesthetics from science of expression, which was within the first couple lines
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by cchiego » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:10 pm

Penn Bowl 2015 Round 8 wrote:3. Benedetto Croce (CROW-chay) claimed that the philosophy of language and this branch of philosophy are the same thing, since this branch of philosophy is the "science of expression." The third volume of The World as Will and Representation discusses this topic and claims that the object of studies in this discipline are used to communicate Platonic ideas. Humans are compared to a clock in a book on this discipline that introduces tick-tock theory; that book consider this discipline's central phenomena (*) “as experience.” Ancient treatises on this topic often discuss mimesis or catharsis, the latter of which is defined as the purging of emotions when one interacts with the objects studied in this discipline. Aristotle's Poetics is a major treatise in, for 10 points each, name what philosophical study of beauty?
ANSWER: aesthetics [prompt on things like “art”]
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by yeah viv talk nah » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:33 pm

If I remember correctly, in round 5 or so there was a tossup on a certain musical key that mentioned the Jupiter movement from Planets that explicitly mentioned that it was written by Holst. Then there was a bonus on Holst later in the set.

Also, on the tossup on atheism, my moderator pronounced it "kaer-yae-kuh", which led me to infer that it had been written in the tossup as "Caryaka" or "Charyaka". If that's the case, that's a misspelling and it should be "Charvaka" or "Carvaka".

Thanks to all the writers for writing this set, my teammates and I really enjoyed it!

EDIT: One more thing, could I see the tossups on the Greek debt crisis and water? Thanks.
Last edited by yeah viv talk nah on Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by west neg, new york » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:01 pm

UlyssesInvictus wrote:
To explain why I ask, I and two (three?) other members of the team realized the event being described around where power ended, but two of us sat on it for a considerable time since we didn't remember the target's name. But the third player realized he could just buzz with "umbrella assassination," and we were very impressed he was clever enough to realize he could just buzz with that.
As that third player, I have to say that Raynor is really overstating my cleverness with this tossup. One-off historic episodes like the Markov assassination are very much "you either know it happened or you don't" kind of topics, so when no one buzzed in (I think around the mention of ricin, thus eliminating the Litvinenko assassination), my thought process went, "We're all thinking 'the guy who got offed by the KGB with an umbrella,' but since nobody has buzzed in, nobody knows his name. Might as well risk 5 points and guess 'umbrella assassination' and see if that's acceptable, since the other team would have already buzzed if they knew."

Honestly, I was kind of surprised that so little information was needed for a correct answer. After all, if somebody rigged up the same device and killed some random dude, people wouldn't be writing quizbowl questions about it 35 years later - the identity of the victim and political context are important. I don't think "ice pick assassination" will ever be acceptable - or even promptable - for "assassination of Trotsky," so by accepting just the means of assassination, it's like saying, "this guy is only notable for how he died," which seems a bit trivia-esque. To be fair, I, like most people, I'd assume, read about this somewhere online and remembered only the more attention-grabbing detail of the umbrella rather than Markov's name, so I understand from a question writer's view how accepting just "umbrella assassination" makes the question much more playable. But names matter. Knowing them is important and should be rewarded.

Also, like Raynor said, I would have been much happier with a lead-in note saying "description acceptable," since it's kind of frustrating to sit through the entire tossup thinking, "what's that guy's name?" and then discover that I didn't need to know it at all. But that still seems like a vague directive, and saying something like "method used in this event alone is acceptable" is absurd. I'm not saying the Markov assassination is inherently a bad topic to write a tossup on, but it might be better suited for a higher difficulty where requiring the guy's name wouldn't seem so outlandish (that also figured into my calculus in answering the question - I was thinking, "they wouldn't really ask for the name at this level, right?").
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Muriel Axon » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:39 pm

crash bandicoot wrote:Also, on the tossup on atheism, my moderator pronounced it "kaer-yae-kuh", which led me to infer that it had been written in the tossup as "Caryaka" or "Charyaka". If that's the case, that's a misspelling and it should be "Charvaka" or "Carvaka".
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:41 pm

Muriel Axon wrote:
crash bandicoot wrote:Also, on the tossup on atheism, my moderator pronounced it "kaer-yae-kuh", which led me to infer that it had been written in the tossup as "Caryaka" or "Charyaka". If that's the case, that's a misspelling and it should be "Charvaka" or "Carvaka".
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by Milhouse » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:05 pm

Could I see the tossup on A Clockwork Orange? The clue about the soundtrack making extensive use of synthesizer didn't seem necessarily unique (though I can't think of another example and, indeed, may just be misremembering an aspect of the clue).
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by vinteuil » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:23 pm

Xochiquetzal wrote:Could I see the tossup on A Clockwork Orange? The clue about the soundtrack making extensive use of synthesizer didn't seem necessarily unique (though I can't think of another example and, indeed, may just be misremembering an aspect of the clue).
I buzzed there off Wendy Carlos, but I'm pretty sure she worked on The Shining (just not nearly as much) and Tron as well. (But the first clue clearly wasn't Tron...)
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Re: Specific Question Discussion (Penn Bowl 2015)

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:10 pm

Could I see the tossup on Tess of the D'Urbervilles?
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