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Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:00 pm
by Ringil
Here are the stats through round 5: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... h_round_5/. I'll try to post periodic updates.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:01 pm
by Ringil

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:55 pm
by Ringil

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:45 pm
by Ringil

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:55 pm
by Eddie
Thank you for playing (This) Tournament is a Crime! We've set up a private forum (User Control Panel > Usergroups) for you to join and discuss the set.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:58 pm
by Ringil

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:35 am
by Sima Guang Hater
The people demand combined stats

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:51 am
by Mewto55555
This was a really fun weekend. Thanks again to everyone at Michigan for hosting and anyone else who staffed!

One thing I do want to bring up, however, which put an unfortunate damper on the proceedings, is that it seems that anyone, even people who have been around the quizbowl circuit for a long time, can misunderstand the proper procedure for the adjudication of protests. As I understand it (and I may be mistaken, which I guess would just prove the previous sentence correct), it goes something like this:

1. When, at the end of the game, a protest would cause a big enough swing to affect the game, the moderator talks to the person in charge of resolving protests and explains the nature of the protest. If the person lodging the protest (or the other team) feels the moderator might not adequately convey their argument(s), they can write it down and have it passed along.
2. The person resolving the protest takes time to review the question, consults the rules (typically assumed to be the ACF rules unless otherwise specified?), and, if the protest is deemed valid, determines what the remedy is. If possible, they should be blind to the identities of either team involved.
3. The teams are gathered, the results and rationale of the protest resolution are explained to them, and any additional questions are played if necessary.
4. The result is final, even though one team is pretty much guaranteed to be upset.

As I understand it, the above list is not isomorphic to the following method used to resolve a protest during one of the side events (or at least, my recollection of how things transpired; I would love to be corrected if any details are wrong), which is disappointing since this was not the first rodeo of many of the involved parties.

1. When, at the end of the game, a bunch of protests were determined to matter, the moderator talks to the person in charge of protest resolution, and passes on the relevant information. It is determined that at least two of three of the protests lodged need to be valid for the protesting team to win.
2. While waiting for their next game, my team (that didn’t lodge the protests) is informed by a bunch of people playing video games in the hallway next to the stats guy that two of the protests were denied, and thus the third didn’t need to be ruled on.
3. After the round robin has concluded, both teams ask the TD to confirm the results of the protest. As he begins to repeat what video game man has said, the lodger of protests interjects to restate his case.
4. The TD agrees to reconsider the protests.
5. The TD denies a clearly incorrect protest, and accepts a clearly valid one (that a given answer should have been prompted). After a fair bit of consideration, re-reading the question, and discussion with both teams, he denies the third protest.
6. The results of this protest resolution means no final needs to be played – my team leaves to round up our car and prepare to head home.
7. Five minutes later, we return to the room to collect a clubmate milling around, only to learn that the lodger of protests has successfully badgered the TD into re-re-opening the protest, resolving it in his favor, and preparing to start the now-necessary final without any representative of our team present.
8. I note that, since the resolution of both protests was apparently that an answer should have been prompted, the rules (which, up until this point, had been consulted and seemed to be understood by nobody) required two new tossups to be read to the protesting team and both converted. I guess, in retrospect, that I couldn’t have known this was the resolution for sure, since the rationale for the reversing of the original decision was never shared with my team!
9. a Wise Academic on the other finalist team, uninvolved in the game in which the protests occurred but quite excited that a final will now likely get to be played, pipes in from the peanut gallery that the protesting team surely would have converted the tossups had they been prompted, and thus the rules can safely be ignored.
10. It was pointed out to us that the only team affected by this was the other finalist (which is manifestly untrue, as the protest also affected the placement of us, the protesting team, most other teams within our bracket, and everyone whose departure time was changed by the new final situation), and they were OK with the protest being resolved in favor of the protesting team.
11. The rules are not ignored, and the protesting team converts both tossups, winning the game. A final is played.

I’m deliberately not trying to comment on the merits of the actual resolution of the protest – even if it was absolutely correct (though it was certainly not cut-and-dry, as evidenced by it being denied twice before being finally accepted on the protestor's third try) does not mean that the above series of events was acceptable. Just because it is a small field at a relatively unimportant side event does not mean that procedure should be thrown out the window: protests should never be decided behind closed doors via belligerence and sheer force of personality, nor should their resolution be affected by the records of the teams involved. Experienced quizbowlers should not decide that the right time to scrap the rules is when it suits their interests, nor should TDs bow under pressure from them to do so.

Again, don’t let the accidentally-lengthy grievance outlined in my post suggest that these side events were anything but a fun capstone to a quite well-written and enjoyable slate of tournaments! Thanks again to everyone involved!


PS: does anyone know what to do if the protesting team was negged in power, the resolution of their protest is “should have been prompted”, and then 10s the replacement tossup? Is it worth 10 or 15?

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 am
by sephirothrr
Mewto55555 wrote:PS: does anyone know what to do if the protesting team was negged in power, the resolution of their protest is “should have been prompted”, and then 10s the replacement tossup? Is it worth 10 or 15?
NAQT Rules J.13.G wrote: If it is determined that a moderator improperly rejected a response to a tossup question that should actually have been prompted, the moderator will read a replacement tossup to the affected team off the clock. Any player on the affected team may answer the replacement tossup. If the replacement tossup is answered correctly, the team shall be considered to have answered the original tossup correctly. (This might mean that the team is credited with answering the original tossup for power even if it did not answer the replacement tossup early enough to earn power.)

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:42 am
by Ringil
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:The people demand combined stats
Probably because I screwed up somehow, but I'm not sure how to re-add the prelim games to the final standings quickly/efficiently. If anyone would like to help me, please pm me.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:43 am
by Cody
Ringil wrote:
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:The people demand combined stats
Probably because I screwed up somehow, but I'm not sure how to re-add the prelim games to the final standings quickly/efficiently. If anyone would like to help me, please pm me.
Open the Playoffs file & File > Save As your combined file. Then, merge your prelims file. This will pop up the divisions box; delete the two prelims divisions from the bottom (the reason you start with playoffs is to keep the playoff divisions intact). Minimize the divisions & roster boxes and you'll have the game entry box. The very first games should be the prelim games that you carried over into the playoffs (the game entry box should display games in the following order: carried over prelim games, playoff games, all prelim games). Delete the carried over prelim games, as they are duplicates. Then you have a combined file.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:22 pm
by jonah
Cody wrote:
Ringil wrote:
The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:The people demand combined stats
Probably because I screwed up somehow, but I'm not sure how to re-add the prelim games to the final standings quickly/efficiently. If anyone would like to help me, please pm me.
Open the Playoffs file & File > Save As your combined file. Then, merge your prelims file. This will pop up the divisions box; delete the two prelims divisions from the bottom (the reason you start with playoffs is to keep the playoff divisions intact). Minimize the divisions & roster boxes and you'll have the game entry box. The very first games should be the prelim games that you carried over into the playoffs (the game entry box should display games in the following order: carried over prelim games, playoff games, all prelim games). Delete the carried over prelim games, as they are duplicates. Then you have a combined file.
This, but most importantly, make a copy of everything before you do all of this. It's not uncommon for merging files to go haywire (if, for instance, there are different or seemingly-different teams in the files, or different rosters for the same team), even more so than other things in SQBS, so you definitely want backups.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:33 am
by Shorts are comfy and easy to wear
I'd like to extend a thank you to everyone to staffed FRENCH for me on Sunday. I'm so grateful for those who helped make FRENCH a real event and I want to recompense you for your work. On that note, since French was my first time as TD and people were coming, going, and moving from staff to player, I lost track of who moderated for me, so I ask that anyone who staffed for me please charge my Venmo (Alex-Fregeau-1) for the $15 I promised you in earlier posts (email me at afregeau9@gmail.com if you'd prefer to be paid another way). Please don't feel bashful; I want to compensate you for your time and effort and for making my tournament a reality I could see played.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:22 am
by Ringil
Here are combined stats: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... ned_stats/

Let me know if there were any errors.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:38 pm
by Charbroil
Ringil wrote:Here are combined stats: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... ned_stats/

Let me know if there were any errors.
I'm listed as having played 19 games for some reason.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:44 pm
by CPiGuy
Charbroil wrote:
Ringil wrote:Here are combined stats: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... ned_stats/

Let me know if there were any errors.
I'm listed as having played 19 games for some reason.
In all of WUSTL's prelim games, there are two Charles Hangs on the team -- one of whom recorded your stats, and one of whom went 0/0/0 in every game.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:06 pm
by Cheynem
Charles Hang from Earth-2!

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:28 pm
by Auroni
nvm delete

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:40 pm
by Ringil
Alright I've deleted the invisible imposter pretending to be Charles Hang.

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:51 pm
by That DCC guy
So will the FRENCH's stats be completed?

Re: (This) Tournament is a Crime weekend - 2/25-26/17 - Mich

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:50 pm
by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
That DCC guy wrote:So will the FRENCH's stats be completed?
bump