PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:53 pm

Our Lady Peace wrote:If we search "Revolt of the Sergeants" (in quotes) in JSTOR ... It seems clear to me that the "Revolt of the Sergeants" is not in fact a reified thing, despite quizbowl writers treating it as such, and referring to it in a tossup will in every instance lead to someone who has read a lot of packets getting the question over someone who has non-quizbowl knowledge of Cuban history.
Keep in mind that the exact text in the question might not always be the same text used by historians. The number of results expands significantly if the search includes "sergeants' revolt" or "revuelta de los sargentos".
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:03 pm

Magtymguly Pyragy wrote:The leadin to the potassium tossup in round 9 says that:
Glycyrizzhizic acid, which is found in licorice, increases the secretion of this ion.
The correct name should be glycyrrhizic or glycyrrhizinic acid, and some research also seems to indicate that the opposite is true.
Both of those papers say that its linked to hypokalemia, meaning its secreted more into the urine.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by vinteuil » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:14 am

There were a few questions with oddly transparent clues quite early; the best example I can remember now was "smoldering" being near the end of power for combustion (??).

A few of the more specific answerlines didn't play extremely well in my room, or necessitated some ad-hoc (sue me) prompting: bringing people back from the underworld is one I remember (almost got two different teams to neg with "going to the underworld" etc.; I know that the question tries to warn you). Unfortunately, I can't remember which question this was, but I at one point decided to give a "from where?" prompt when the normal prompt would clearly have been unhelpful. (sue me)

A few other questions had misplaced referents. Since the exorcism tossup ends with "thing Jesus did in order to expel the demon Legion," I ended up accepting "saying the name of God," which I thought was close enough to the actual story ("I beg you in the name of God") to accept at that point. Similarly, the James Russell Lowell question uses "he" (or "his"? I don't remember) to refer to the author of "Skunk Hour," and then makes you prompt on "Lowell," presumably inducing some answers of "Robert." EDIT: also, Nude Descending a Staircase, No. 2, as far as I know, did not cause an explosion in a shingle factory, nor was it ever accused of such an act.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by west neg, new york » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:34 am

vinteuil wrote:Similarly, the James Russell Lowell question uses "he" (or "his"? I don't remember) to refer to the author of "Skunk Hour," and then makes you prompt on "Lowell," presumably inducing some answers of "Robert."
Can confirm that this happened at least once, causing much annoyance on the Harvard side.

Can I see the film tossup on "bicycles"? If I remember correctly, the part of the question describing Close-Up didn't drop clues referring to "this object" until the very end, so I just kind of sat there confused and wondering what the question wanted.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by t-bar » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:38 pm

I enjoyed reading this set. Two minor corrections; I'll add more if I think of them.
Packet 5 wrote:[10] The reference ellipsoid of a crystal can be determined by finding this vector, symbolized with a capital D. This quantity’s divergence is equal to the free charge density.
ANSWER: electric displacement field [prompt on partial answer, do not accept “displacement current”]
I've frequently seen this referred to as just the displacement field, so I don't think "electric" should be required.
Packet 12 wrote:[10] Qing dynasty claims on Taiwan were lost to Japan, along with the Liaodong Peninsula, in this 1885 treaty, which ended the first Sino-Japanese war.
ANSWER: Treaty of Shimonoseki
The Treaty of Shimonoseki was signed in 1895, not 1885.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by The Stately Rhododendron » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:52 pm

I thought the anthro here was fine (even with the perennial bonus on Ruth Benedict). I do have one quibble: the tossup on functionalism seemed to slide between structural functionalism and functionalism quite a bit, even though they're fairly distinct.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Kasper Kaijanen » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:21 pm

Can I see round 11 bonus 3? It went Laurens/Lee/South Carolina, and if I remember correctly it mentioned South Carolina in one of the first two parts of the bonus. Round 11 tossup 15 should include Groundwork FOR the Metaphysics of Morals as an acceptable answerline. Round 7 bonus 5 had The Pilgrim's Progress as the answer to a question about Little Women
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:25 pm

The Stately Rhododendron wrote:I thought the anthro here was fine (even with the perennial bonus on Ruth Benedict). I do have one quibble: the tossup on functionalism seemed to slide between structural functionalism and functionalism quite a bit, even though they're fairly distinct.
I wrote this. I am aware that they are pretty different; the intention of the tossup was to be a common link on the term "functionalism" (or the word "function," in the case of the Robert Merton clue) using both sociology and anthropology clues. Sorry if that was confusing.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by cchiego » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:30 pm

Imperial Cormorant wrote:Can I see round 11 bonus 3? It went Laurens/Lee/South Carolina, and if I remember correctly it mentioned South Carolina in one of the first two parts of the bonus. Round 11 tossup 15 should include Groundwork FOR the Metaphysics of Morals as an acceptable answerline. Round 7 bonus 5 had The Pilgrim's Progress as the answer to a question about Little Women
3. The American Revolution was full of forward thinkers, but some did not live to see their views enacted. For 10 points each:
[10] This South Carolinian accompanied his father Henry to the Continental Congress before joining George Washington’s troops as a lieutenant colonel. He was a proponent of arming slaves and was succeeded in command by Tadeusz Kościuszko, another foe of slavery.
ANSWER: John Laurens
[10] In 1778, Laurens duelled with this man in defense of George Washington, as depicted in the 2015 musical Hamilton. A native of England, this man was later courtmartialed for abject failure at the Battle of Monmouth.
ANSWER: Charles Lee
[10] Laurens died at Battle of Combahee River in this state. Other revolutionary battles fought in this state include Battle of Eutaw Springs and Siege of Charleston, where Benjamin Lincoln was forced to surrender six weeks in.
ANSWER: South Carolina
The question says he was from South Carolina, but that doesn't mean he had to die there. Given that this is the easy part (I think the last part was originally "Siege of Charleston" for whatever reason), while it's not ideal I don't think it's a major flaw.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by jmarvin_ » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:20 pm

I can affirm that putting smoldering so early for combustion was an oversight. I am bad at science and was able to get that tossup early without much knowledge, and did so not even convinced of my answer (since, because it was so early, I had half a mind to think "smoldering" must be some technical term I've never heard of).

The Ethiopian clue about exorcisms is really confusing, to the point where, despite reading about buda literally the night before the tournament to a relatively deep extent, I had no idea what the question was asking for. First of all, buda is a capability or feature of a person, believed to be held by members of certain social groups. The way the question talks about it makes it sound like an event of some kind. The kitab is created to protect from the powers of someone possessing the buda, and it is this person with the evil eye that is believed to be possessed by or in control of spirits. Thus in no way does it "prevent exorcisms" as the question is phrased to imply, unless the reversal of a curse is part of a wide definition of "exorcism."

If I could've been more confident I understood the clue as it was read, taken as it is written the answer I would've given would be "a cursing."

Other than this qualm, the religion (the only category I think I'm qualified to critique) wasn't bad in any ways that aren't universally pervasive* in quizbowl categorization, distribution, and writing. Having two tossups with "ocean of milk"-based clues that weren't substantially different is perhaps a problem. Though I may be biased in this, deep Christianity stuff seemed lacking from the set, as noted by some earlier posters.

* I might find the confidence to voice these concerns in a developed way sometime, but I think perhaps I should wait until I have more clout - and free time.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by UlyssesInvictus » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:40 pm

Can I see the trash tossup on Death?;

as well as the myth "being eaten" tossup, since IMO the lead-in was both simultaneously too famous and not clear enough on exactly what kind of fate was being asked for.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Make sure your seatbelt is fastened » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:27 pm

A small correction to TU 5 in Packet 14: Myles' sister is Chloe, not Connie.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Hobbie Klivian » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:12 pm

9. In one depiction, this character claims that she will “put the chairs on the tables...and lock the universe behind me when I leave.” That character later feeds pigeons with her brother, whose hand she holds after the Furies come for him. In one rendition, this figure is asked “Why can’t I kill God within me?” and is told about a desire to do “one meaningful deed” after hiding in a (*) confessional. This figure is annoyed at running into Rincewind too many times in Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series, where he speaks in all caps. This member of the Endless is depicted as the Goth-girl sister of Dream in Neil Gaiman’s Sandman comics. For 10 points, name this figure, whose “Triumph” was depicted visually by Brueghel and who plays chess with the knight Antonius Block in The Seventh Seal.
This fate happened to Mestra’s father, whom Demeter had punished for cutting down a sacred grove; Demeter sent Limos to punish him, forcing Erysichthon to do this action to himself. This thing happened to Abderus while he was assisting Hercules during his eighth labor, and in revenge, Hercules caused this thing to happen to the giant king of Thrace. This was the method of death of travelers who were forced by Sciron to (*) wash his feet and in one case, this was done to a rock instead of its intended target due to a trick by Rhea. It’s not being turned into an animal, but Artemis caused this thing to happen to Actaeon after he stumbled on her naked in the forest, and the mares of Diomedes would often do this thing to people. For 10 points, name this thing which happened to the children of Kronos.
While the lead-in is relatively famous, the phrase "to do this action to himself" should narrow it down. I agree that the sentence is ambiguous before that phrase, however.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by The Abydos Helicopter » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:43 pm

I'm also not sure that Sciron clue is great - it's the turtle that does the eating, while Sciron throws them off the cliff, which misled at least the team I read to
(for amusement, here is a tiny turtle eating Sciron himself)
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by swaymun.shahee » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:51 pm

Can I see "The Ballad of the Sad Cafe" tossup?
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Inifinite Jest » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:05 pm

What the hell was up with that tasmanian devil tossup? It seemed like a bad idea on several different levels.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Aaron's Rod » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:18 am

LBJ and/or Texas came up a lot in this set. Like, at least three times. (Am I misremembering that "Texas" was an answer line twice?)
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Aaron's Rod » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:18 am

Inifinite Jest wrote:What the hell was up with that tasmanian devil tossup? It seemed like a bad idea on several different levels.
FWIW, people in my room were entertained by that one, and I overheard another team talking about enjoying it as well.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Evan Lynch » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:53 am

Aaron's Rod wrote:LBJ and/or Texas came up a lot in this set. Like, at least three times. (Am I misremembering that "Texas" was an answer line twice?)
Texas was an answerline for American history which had some LBJ stuff in, and for a literature common link which included Vernon God Little and Blood Meridian, I think. There was also a bonus set on Garcia Lorca and a bonus set on music written about his death. Both of these 'repeats' were fine IMO - I quite liked all the questions and there isn't really an issue with duplicate answerlines across categories.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Sigurd » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:24 pm

Could someone post the Bizet tossup?
I think the second line said he wrote "Spirits of the air, Spirits of the Wave" (Esprits de l'air, Esprits de l'onde) in one of his operas. While it is true that this appears in the Pearl Fishers, the more famous useage of that phrase (IMO) is in this aria from Esclarmonde by Massenet with the exact same title. As such, it needs a "It's not Massenet..." to begin that clue.
Thanks! :) I really enjoyed the questions I heard overall
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:33 pm

Aaron's Rod wrote:
Inifinite Jest wrote:What the hell was up with that tasmanian devil tossup? It seemed like a bad idea on several different levels.
FWIW, people in my room were entertained by that one, and I overheard another team talking about enjoying it as well.
The question seemed to go fine when I read it at the Penn site as well - a team got a middle buzz on the question from the clue about the face disease. I'm not sure how many people buzzed early but it seems fairly acceptable/playable as far as quirky tossup ideas go.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Inifinite Jest » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:48 pm

Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote:
Aaron's Rod wrote:
Inifinite Jest wrote:What the hell was up with that tasmanian devil tossup? It seemed like a bad idea on several different levels.
FWIW, people in my room were entertained by that one, and I overheard another team talking about enjoying it as well.
The question seemed to go fine when I read it at the Penn site as well - a team got a middle buzz on the question from the clue about the face disease. I'm not sure how many people buzzed early but it seems fairly acceptable/playable as far as quirky tossup ideas go.
Yeah. I was mainly irritated that, iirc, it was the bio tossup that round. If it had been an other academic tossup it would've only mildly bothered me (it still strikes me as very top heavy, since the cancer clue is the only real middle clue.)
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Rococo A Go Go » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:54 am

Can I see the tossups on Australian aborigines, Italy joining the Allies (or something like this), and Cuban Missile Crisis?
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by cchiego » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:21 pm

Packet6 wrote:11. These organisms are infected by the tapeworm D. robusta, and their milk contains the cathelicidin saha-CATH5, which kills MRSA. The strong jaws of this organism are similar to those of the hyena, an example of convergent evolution. These organisms are most closely related to quolls within the family Dasyuridae. Schwann cells from a single one of these organisms was found to be responsible for DFTD, a form of (*) transmissible cancer affecting these animals that localized to the neck and face. These organisms preferentially eat carrion, and are about the size of a dog. For 10 points, name these organisms, scientific name Sarcophilus harrisii, a carnivorous marsupial native to an island south of Australia.
ANSWER: Tasmanian devil [accept Sarcophilus harrisii before mention]
This seems fine to me; quolls is something useful if you know your marsupials and the strong jaws aspect is something I vaguely recall reading about as well.
Packet7 wrote:3. These peoples’ flag has a yellow disc on a background divided into black top half and a red bottom. These peoples set up an unofficial tent embassy on the lawn of a former national legislature. Attorney General Michael Lavarch set up Bringing Them Home, a national inquiry into a wrong against these peoples. The landmark 1992 Mabo decision overturned the use of the terra nullius doctrine on the title to land held by these peoples in common law. National (*) Sorry Day commemorates the mistreatment of these peoples. Official apologies for the Stolen Generations – young members of these peoples taken from their families – were delivered in 2008 and 2014 by Prime Ministers Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard. For 10 points, name these peoples, who lived on a certain island country long before the British convicts were sent to live in places such as Melbourne and Sydney.
ANSWER: Australian Aboriginals [or Indigenous Australians; or Australian Aborigines; prompt on Australians, Aboriginals, Indigenous, Aborigines etc.; anti-prompt on Stolen Generations or Stolen Children]
Packet3 wrote:5. Description acceptable. The lead-up to this action was known by supporters as Radiant May. The leader in power at the time of this action justified it with a policy of “sacred egoism.” Like a similar action taken by King Carol I of Romania a year later, it was prompted by Russian advances in the Carpathians. Talks in London between Jules Cambon, Edward Grey, and Sidney (*) Sonnino led to a secret treaty that enumerated the territorial rewards for taking this action. Failure to win some of those promised gains, such as Fiume, prompted a leader of the country that carried out this diplomatic action to cry and storm out of talks at Versailles. That leader was Vittorio Orlando, whose army had fought several battles on the Isonzo as a result of this action. For 10 points, name this 1915 action in which a former member of the Triple Alliance joined the Allies in the First World War.
ANSWER: Italian entry into the First World War [or equivalents like the Kingdom of Italy begins fighting in World War One; Italy declares for the Entente; Italy declares war on the Central Powers, etc.; prompt on partial answers such as Italian declaration of war; anti-prompt on answers such as Italy declares war on Germany]
One side during this event relied on inaccurate tips from a bartender at the National Press Club as described in a book about this event, One Hell of a Gamble. The organizational process model was used to explain why one side placed stars on top of barracks and used a Star-of-David shape design during this event in Graham Allison's Essence of Decision. During this event, one person faked a cold to leave a Chicago campaign stop and John Scali held a meeting at the Occidental Restaurant. Four "Foxtrots" including B-59 were harassed by (*) depth charges during this event where Issay Pliyev may have been directly authorized to use FROGs as part of Operation Anadyr. One message sent during this event asked "let us take measures to untie that knot" before a second, harsher message demanded the removal of Jupiter missiles from Turkey. The Bucharest was allowed through the quarantine line around the namesake island during these event. For 10 points, name this 13-day long crisis in October 1962 involving the delivery of Soviet nuclear weapons to a Caribbean island.
ANSWER: Cuban Missile Crisis
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by gerbilownage » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:59 pm

Would "Italy defecting to the allies" be okay for the Italy entering WW1 tossup? When modding, I counted it as a neg because I wasn't sure if Italy necessarily "defected" or simply joined, but after reading the relevant history I think it's equivalent to "Italy declares for the Entente" and should have been accepted.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by ErikC » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:10 pm

gerbilownage wrote:Would "Italy defecting to the allies" be okay for the Italy entering WW1 tossup? When modding, I counted it as a neg because I wasn't sure if Italy necessarily "defected" or simply joined, but after reading the relevant history I think it's equivalent to "Italy declares for the Entente" and should have been accepted.
I would say it's acceptable because you could view it as a defection. Either way it demonstrates the knowledge and it was description acceptable.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by RexSueciae » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:28 pm

gerbilownage wrote:Would "Italy defecting to the allies" be okay for the Italy entering WW1 tossup? When modding, I counted it as a neg because I wasn't sure if Italy necessarily "defected" or simply joined, but after reading the relevant history I think it's equivalent to "Italy declares for the Entente" and should have been accepted.
Given that Italy was formally in alliance with the Central Powers and then skipped off to join the Entente once war broke out, I'd say that "defected" is an entirely accurate descriptor of what happened. Did the team protest the neg?
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by gerbilownage » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:17 pm

RexSueciae wrote:
gerbilownage wrote:Would "Italy defecting to the allies" be okay for the Italy entering WW1 tossup? When modding, I counted it as a neg because I wasn't sure if Italy necessarily "defected" or simply joined, but after reading the relevant history I think it's equivalent to "Italy declares for the Entente" and should have been accepted.
Given that Italy was formally in alliance with the Central Powers and then skipped off to join the Entente once war broke out, I'd say that "defected" is an entirely accurate descriptor of what happened. Did the team protest the neg?
Yes, but the protest was moot because they would have won anyways. Either way, sorry Brown! My bad.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Emperor Pupienus » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:18 pm

gerbilownage wrote:
RexSueciae wrote:
gerbilownage wrote:Would "Italy defecting to the allies" be okay for the Italy entering WW1 tossup? When modding, I counted it as a neg because I wasn't sure if Italy necessarily "defected" or simply joined, but after reading the relevant history I think it's equivalent to "Italy declares for the Entente" and should have been accepted.
Given that Italy was formally in alliance with the Central Powers and then skipped off to join the Entente once war broke out, I'd say that "defected" is an entirely accurate descriptor of what happened. Did the team protest the neg?
Yes, but the protest was moot because they would have won anyways. Either way, sorry Brown! My bad.
I'm not sure I agree. From my understanding, Italy was part of the Triple Alliance until it refused to join WWI in 1914. At that point, it was no longer affiliated with any power and was simply neutral. In 1915 it was enticed to join the Entente by varied territorial treats.

The Italian declaration of neutrality in 1914 notes that the Triple Alliance is purely a defensive pact, so Italy would not enter the war. Although the internet seems to be unclear on exactly when the Triple Alliance was dissolved officially (if it was indeed dissolved officially), the war was fought for almost a year before Italy entered the war. Therefore, it makes no sense to say that Italy was a member of an alliance with two other nations that were actually fighting.

If my reasoning is correct, than "declaring for the Entente" is correct, but any answer indicating "defecting" or leaving the Triple Alliance would be wrong.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Emperor Pupienus » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:22 pm

Then again, since there does not appear (from my cursory research) to be scholarly consensus on when the Triple Alliance officially ended, --whether it was in August 1914 or May 1915-- that is probably a good argument for accepting answers to either effect out of generosity/player empathy.
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Periplus of the Erythraean Sea
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Periplus of the Erythraean Sea » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:25 pm

jasonzhou wrote:Then again, since there does not appear (from my cursory research) to be scholarly consensus on when the Triple Alliance officially ended, --whether it was in August 1914 or May 1915-- that is probably a good argument for accepting answers to either effect out of generosity/player empathy.
This is probably the correct approach. If somebody clearly knows what's going on in a "description acceptable" tossup then they should get the credit.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by Amizda Calyx » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:17 pm

cchiego wrote:
Packet6 wrote:11. These organisms are infected by the tapeworm D. robusta, and their milk contains the cathelicidin saha-CATH5, which kills MRSA. The strong jaws of this organism are similar to those of the hyena, an example of convergent evolution. These organisms are most closely related to quolls within the family Dasyuridae. Schwann cells from a single one of these organisms was found to be responsible for DFTD, a form of (*) transmissible cancer affecting these animals that localized to the neck and face. These organisms preferentially eat carrion, and are about the size of a dog. For 10 points, name these organisms, scientific name Sarcophilus harrisii, a carnivorous marsupial native to an island south of Australia.
ANSWER: Tasmanian devil [accept Sarcophilus harrisii before mention]
This seems fine to me; quolls is something useful if you know your marsupials and the strong jaws aspect is something I vaguely recall reading about as well.
The reason this bothered me is that it seemed to be mostly inspired by current events news items rather than clues players would encounter in an academic environment.* For example, the cathelicidins clue seems to be from an October 11, 2016 article. Also, saying they're "most closely related to quolls" and that their jaws resemble that of the hyena are not really unique clues...I get that they're helpful for narrowing down the answer, but really it's not a good idea to introduce ambiguity.

*I'm not so sure that my complaint here is completely justifiable; I've been on the fence about using extremely recent articles in clues since, on the one hand, actual scientists do keep up to date on current research (although I'm not so sure something published four days before the tournament is particularly fair), but on the other hand, this can lead to inflating the importance of new, catchy titles that find their way on reddit at the expense of more time-tested topics. I'm willing to concede that these types of questions are fine on occasion (like 1/0 or 0/1 per STEM category per tournament), but I'd caution against jumping into the news cycle for clues unless you're really familiar with their scientific impact.
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Re: PB 2016: Specific Question Discussion

Post by RexSueciae » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:53 am

In an amusing case study of the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon, I have since encountered multiple references to Air America over the intervening months, among them being /r/TodayILearned and an episode of Archer where they're introduced as his transport to some mission to some place, I forget which one. Possibly other instances that I'm forgetting because my memory is porous like a sieve.
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