The Quizbowl Resource Center

My two cents: It seems Minnesota (and nothing against the Twin Cities) is a lot less interesting and more expensive to travel to than Chicago. Who, among teams that are going, would prefer one or the other, and is either a dealbreaker? Thoughts?

Theodore

I'm not sure how the location information/rumors is getting around so quick, I heard them a couple of days ago, didn't know it'd gotten to asia already :) . Since I'd heard NAQT only tried to get rooms at Northwestern, I didn't know why they didn't try getting rooms at like a Chicago area HS, like Maine South, which is right by O'hare, or at some place like UC or UIC. The fact that they'd turned to Northwestern seems to indicate that Chicago was the 1st choice and Minnesota was only there if nothing could be arranged. Can't some hail mary Chicago booking efforts be done if its what the majority wants?

Rothlover wrote:I didn't know why they didn't try getting rooms at like a Chicago area HS, like Maine South, which is right by O'hare, or at some place like UC or UIC.

Maine South, or anywhere out there, would be a ridiculously boring location, especially for anyone not driving or renting a car. UIC's location is kind of ghetto, even compared to UC, and not terribly convenient or cheap for that matter either. As for U Chicago, I'll let them make their own comments. Northwestern was a nice location for ACF a couple years ago, so hopefully they can work that out.

Minneapolis wouldn't actually be too bad. I haven't been downtown there for a few years, but if I remember right, they were doing a lot of renovations and rebuilding in the UM area. Could be wrong though. It would probably be about the same for hotels, but more expensive to fly to.

I'll just say this...aside from people who go to Minnesota, there are few places from which it's more convenient to go to Minnesota than to Chicago. This is true.

You know what else is true? Aside from people who go to (insert school here), there are few places from which it's more convenient to go to (insert school here) than to Chicago.

The argument "Chicago > ________" can be rehashed every year.

I think it's important to keep programs in the circuit financially strong by allowing many programs to benefit from hosting ICT. Having the tournament perpetually in Chicago (which is what the pro-Chicago argument boils down to) basically turns U of Chicago and Northwestern into machines that constantly get rich off of everyone else's money.

I'm sorry to break from boardthink on this particular issue, but I've decided that I'm all for ICT movement.

I am for moving the ICT around as well, I just don't find Minn appealing or convenient. Its like Vienna Beef vs an expensive Ballpark frank (since Chicago is involved.) As for the money, it doesn't seem to be a big issue. The ICT host gets what, $2000? Obviously thats a solid bit of money, but its not something that a program is built on, it would probably just cover travel and entrance fees for a few events for the type of program with the staff to host an ICT. Running an NAQT intramural and/or a few mirrors of something probably generates more profit, plus the ICT cash boost is just a one-shot deal, its not like the host school will be getting annual bags of money from NAQT. I suspect that if Chicago staff helped in the ICT, it wouldn't be for money, since they are massively well-funded, but rather because the school has a bunch of people who will take the time to help, and the area does as well (although other areas likely have plenty of staff too, every local staff member means less reimbursement NAQT has to pay off, and, in theory, lower costs to teams.)

For the record, I had a great time at the Los Angeles ICT. I also recall that our tickets were less than what kayak shows for a newark to Minn flight, and the flight to LAX was three times the distance. The St. Louis ICT was also decent, and that was also a cheap ICT to get to, and I'd imagine it was even in a very drivable location for teams that wanted to take a huge vehicle and gas it up to cut costs. I also doubt it is easy to purchase Colt 45 and St. Lunatics Potato Chips in Minneapolis, though feel free to correct me. If ICT is billed as something of an experience, which I believe it is (2 day nat vs. 1 day for ACF for example,) then it should provide a location that is desirable to most in the cases where the location isn't the cheapest, or mad accessibilty for the sake of a cheap event. This year, something by Chicago would seem to be cheap, accessible and its an enjoyable location that will likely be as foreign as Minneapolis to most teams. Since it was the 1st default choice, why weren't there non-Northwestern contingency plans for hosts anyway? I'm only replying in the name of an awesome ICT, not out of some desire to harangue. GIT R' DONE.

vandyhawk wrote: Maine South, or anywhere out there, would be a ridiculously boring location, especially for anyone not driving or renting a car.

We'll I'll have you know, Mister Buster that Park Ridge, which us locals call "Action Ridge", has the second highest point in Cook County as a major tourist attraction, not to mention the a desk that Hillary Clinton once sat in.

Ehh.... you're right. We're pretty boring.

Tom Egan
Head Coach, Maine South H.S.
Park Ridge, Bearinois

theMoMA wrote: Having the tournament perpetually in Chicago (which is what the pro-Chicago argument boils down to) basically turns U of Chicago and Northwestern into machines that constantly get rich off of everyone else's money.

-The ICT has occurred ten times and has never been in Chicago. Potentially hosting it there one time out of eleven is the worst definition of "perpetual" that I've ever heard.
-Unless they provide 26 or more staffers, the host school makes exactly $1280 from the ICT, minus any room reservation costs--aka, substantially less than a team makes from hosting an average high school tournament or a collegiate tournament of 15 teams. No one is "getting rich" from the ICT.
-The argument is not "Chicago>*", it's "Chicago>other Midwestern cities based on the price situation for April 2007, accepting the premise that the ICT will be in the Midwest in 2007." In 2008, if NAQT wants to go to Texas or Boston or some other area, Chicago will hardly be considered as a choice. In 2010, when it's time to come back to the Midwest, who knows what the air travel or other price situations might be?

Communications between NAQT and Northwestern have stalled over the past few weeks. NAQT had contacted us about hosting, but we would have difficulty coming up with enough experienced staffers. NAQT proposed that if Northwestern provided the rooms and a few moderators, U Chicago might provide the rest of the staff and we would split the profits. This sounded like a pretty good arrangement all the way around, and I encouraged our team to put in a bid for it. Northwestern's club president worked hard to get the rooms and things in order but has not heard back from NAQT for some time. It looks like NAQT is still looking for other options.

Awehrman wrote:Communications between NAQT and Northwestern have stalled over the past few weeks. NAQT had contacted us about hosting, but we would have difficulty coming up with enough experienced staffers. NAQT proposed that if Northwestern provided the rooms and a few moderators, U Chicago might provide the rest of the staff and we would split the profits. This sounded like a pretty good arrangement all the way around, and I encouraged our team to put in a bid for it. Northwestern's club president worked hard to get the rooms and things in order but has not heard back from NAQT for some time. It looks like NAQT is still looking for other options.

I obviously do not know any of the internal details, but isn't it a little late to be putting in bids? I assume you are referring to a bid being put in a long time ago? I experienced a similar communication breakdown when trying to set up a joint Brown-Harvard SCT, so I'm not surprised. I think that if NAQT is looking at other options, it should at least let the community know it's doing that.

As Matt already pointed out, ICT has never actually been held in Chicago; if you're going to do a Midwest ICT, Chicago is by far the most easily accessible location. It's cheaper and more convenient that Minneapolis no matter which way you slice it; it's going to cost us probably about $100 more to get to Minneapolis than it would to get to Chicago, and will probably involve going to Boston rather than flying out of Providence.

While I'm not a big fan of NAQT's questions, I've always respected their ability to get the logistics right, so I'm disappointed that they haven't done so this time around.

Awehrman wrote:
Communications between NAQT and Northwestern have stalled over the past few weeks. NAQT had contacted us about hosting, but we would have difficulty coming up with enough experienced staffers. NAQT proposed that if Northwestern provided the rooms and a few moderators, U Chicago might provide the rest of the staff and we would split the profits. This sounded like a pretty good arrangement all the way around, and I encouraged our team to put in a bid for it. Northwestern's club president worked hard to get the rooms and things in order but has not heard back from NAQT for some time. It looks like NAQT is still looking for other options.


I obviously do not know any of the internal details, but isn't it a little late to be putting in bids? I assume you are referring to a bid being put in a long time ago?

Yeah, negotiations abruptly ended when NAQT stopped replying to emails a little while ago, and initial negotiations began a longer while ago. As of right now, despite a significant amount of work from the NW leadership to come up with a way to make it happen, NAQT is completely out of touch without not only a definitive yes/no, but also without a reply of any kind to Northwestern's latest proposals.

I would prefer the ICT to be in Minnesota because that is where I am from but Chicago would also be a great choice.

Tegan wrote:

vandyhawk wrote: Maine South, or anywhere out there, would be a ridiculously boring location, especially for anyone not driving or renting a car.

We'll I'll have you know, Mister Buster that Park Ridge, which us locals call "Action Ridge", has the second highest point in Cook County as a major tourist attraction, not to mention the a desk that Hillary Clinton once sat in.

Ehh.... you're right. We're pretty boring.

Tom Egan
Head Coach, Maine South H.S.
Park Ridge, Bearinois

But are you easy to get to?

Maine South is a ten minute drive from O'Hare (once you get out of O'Hare).

Considering how hard it was to catch the rail back from Tulane Friday night of ICT 05, being a few minutes from O'hare, which has a couple of El stops, doesn't seem wacky. Correct me if I'm wrong? Also, being near O'hare, which I believe Vandy described as boring, basically puts on within easy reach, through public transport, of Chicago itself, which isn't boring.

I guess it's official now: http://naqt.com/ict/2007/2007-ict-details.html

The people have spoken?

Rothlover wrote:The people have spoken?

The people have been ignored, as per NAQT's official operating policy.

ICT 2007: West Bank

DumbJaques wrote:ICT 2007: West Bank

Come on dude, it's all about Hawaii. Or maybe we'll finally have a Canadian ICT, that'll be fun.

My problem is that all this never affects a change. I bet people were making these same jokes the last time NAQT picked a site regarded as poor (and FWIW, I think this is way worse than LA, and that is even considering my team suffered massive jetlag etc. We got to see Watts Tower at least.)

I was actually referring to the fact that the 2007 ICT will in fact be taking place on the West Bank (check the website). Surely this was designed to foster a sense of peace between NAQT and its small band of deluded detractors.r

I am pretty sure the sane ones among us then will be subject to search by the 98% who wish to lay historical claim to the ICT '07 West Bank? Perhaps we will even get special roads?

DumbJaques wrote:ICT 2007: West Bank

Countdown to ICT 2008 on my farm in Parkersburg, West Virginia.

Outdoor quizbowl = XXXtreme quizbowl.

leftsaidfred wrote:

DumbJaques wrote:ICT 2007: West Bank

Countdown to ICT 2008 on my farm in Parkersburg, West Virginia.

Outdoor quizbowl = XXXtreme quizbowl.

Is your house near a waffle house or other interesting food chains? The chance to try varmit seems more appealing than MN.

Local area high schools (including where I attend) had been contacted looking for staffers for the ICT if it was to be held at Northwestern. I was looking forward to seeing top tier quiz bowl for this first time. Oh well.

Did any get asked to host? If they'd been willing to send people, seems like a logical progression.

I couldn't tell you; I was just forwarded an email and asked if I would staff.

All I can tell you if that is an ACT and/or SAT weekend, a lot of area high schools wouldn't be able to host, since there would be students taking tests there.

Rothlover wrote:

leftsaidfred wrote:

DumbJaques wrote:ICT 2007: West Bank

Countdown to ICT 2008 on my farm in Parkersburg, West Virginia.

Outdoor quizbowl = XXXtreme quizbowl.

Is your house near a waffle house or other interesting food chains? The chance to try varmit seems more appealing than MN.

My house isn't really near anything. It's about 20-30 minutes to the greater Parkersburg metropolitan area. About ten minutes down the road there's a small hot dog stand, and then it's about another five before you get to a ribs place and a pizza place.

My mom does make some pretty kickin' rad deer jerky.

If for some weird reason any one does happen to pass through Parkersburg, let me know and I'll direct you towards a good eatery.

DumbJaques wrote:I was actually referring to the fact that the 2007 ICT will in fact be taking place on the West Bank (check the website). Surely this was designed to foster a sense of peace between NAQT and its small band of deluded detractors.r

I live on the west bank.

Am I just not remembering correctly, or do the matches go later on Friday this year than last year?

I'll start off by noting my bias for the having SCT at Minnesota b/c of my background, but that's not what this post's about.

For what it's worth, yes Minnesota is more expensive to fly to b/c of Northwest's stranglehold at MSP, but everyone is making assumptions about what Minnesota has vs. what Chicago had to offer.

Speaking from personal experience as a past coordinator for the club, Minnesota offers the following (not all of which may be readily apparent to others on the circuit):

1. All events in one single building (when was the last time this happened at an SCT?).

2. A rather significant administrative support structure that can be called upon to provide help (since the UMN club is basically run under the auspices of the Student Union, the club coordinator can get the help of the Union advisors to help smooth out any bumps, we could also get significant numbers of helpers in a pinch). I've used this support in the past to help run NAQT tournaments at Minnesota, and this is probably why the student union was mentioned in the post. I have not had any involvement or contact about ICT (or any contact with my old club this year), but I suspect that this was one major reason why Minnesota was selected.

3. Familiarity to NAQT officials - NAQT officials (Hentzel in particular) have run numerous tournament at UMN, and have worked with the club.

Other than Hentzel's explanation and the comments on this board, I don't know what happened with the potential Chicago sites, but I do see why Minnesota was selected as a fallback. I'm sure that NAQT and the people at UMN will help run a smooth tournament.

One more thing, I do enjoy moving ICT around b/c I like seeing different cities in the U.S. I enjoyed going to St. Louis and New Orleans, and I hope to enjoy going to other cities in the future for ICT. I personally would not like it if one metro area had a stranglehold on ICT. While I travel for the tournament, seeing a new location makes the flight and the expense more worthwhile for me. I, for one, pledge not to criticize the location if NAQT ever goes to say, Austin, or Providence, or any other city.

leftsaidfred wrote: Outdoor quizbowl = XXXtreme quizbowl.

The first Vancouver Estival Trivia Open, in 1999, was an all-outdoor tournament (link includes photo). I'm curious if there have been any other outdoor quizbowl tournaments.

Back to the topic: NAQT's pattern seems to be to have the ICT on the west coast every 7 years, like a sabbatical. I'm looking forward to a Vancouver 2010 ICT.

r.g.anderson wrote: 1. All events in one single building (when was the last time this happened at an SCT?).

2. A rather significant administrative support structure that can be called upon to provide help (since the UMN club is basically run under the auspices of the Student Union, the club coordinator can get the help of the Union advisors to help smooth out any bumps, we could also get significant numbers of helpers in a pinch). I've used this support in the past to help run NAQT tournaments at Minnesota, and this is probably why the student union was mentioned in the post. I have not had any involvement or contact about ICT (or any contact with my old club this year), but I suspect that this was one major reason why Minnesota was selected.

3. Familiarity to NAQT officials - NAQT officials (Hentzel in particular) have run numerous tournament at UMN, and have worked with the club.

Other than Hentzel's explanation and the comments on this board, I don't know what happened with the potential Chicago sites, but I do see why Minnesota was selected as a fallback. I'm sure that NAQT and the people at UMN will help run a smooth tournament.

One more thing, I do enjoy moving ICT around b/c I like seeing different cities in the U.S. I enjoyed going to St. Louis and New Orleans, and I hope to enjoy going to other cities in the future for ICT. I personally would not like it if one metro area had a stranglehold on ICT. While I travel for the tournament, seeing a new location makes the flight and the expense more worthwhile for me. I, for one, pledge not to criticize the location if NAQT ever goes to say, Austin, or Providence, or any other city.

None of these things strike me as particularly compelling. Point 1 is not a high priority by any means, especially considering that ICT has run just fine when all events weren't in one building. Points 2 and 3 are the same: ICT has run just fine when it wasn't at a place where R. had connections or there was some kind of administrative structure or whatever. So none of these are deal breakers.

As for moving stuff around, it's already been pointed out that ICT has never been in Chicago, so this is moot. In any case, Minneapolis is hardly some sort of exotic location we're all dying to see. I have no real objections to it besides the fact that it's expensive and hard to get to, and when I'm already paying a lot of money out of pocket to go to these things, that matters a lot to me.

I have no idea how these negotiations went, but it should be pretty obvious to anyone who knows the circuit that putting a national tournament somewhere that's about $100-$150 more expensive per person than the nearest regional contender is going to arouse some negative feeling. I've basically made peace with the fact that it's not going to change and am planning my trip to Minneapolis, and I suspect most other players are doing the same thing, but that doesn't mean any of us are happy with it.

I have a feeling that if we do make it, we will be driving to save money. I don´t know. I used Travelocity and found that the cheapest and quickest route to MN is flying from Kirksville to Minneapolis for $296 bucks per person.

There are no direct flights there even if we left from Kansas City and to drive to KC would end up costing more anyway for parking and gas to get there.

Sooo... it´s looking like the most logical choice will be to drive and hope for good weather and low gas prices.

According to mapquest, it´s only 400 miles anyway ... that´s not as bad as I thought. For such a short trip, that airfare is pretty frickin ridiculous.

-ktb-Truman State

Kentb426 wrote:According to mapquest, it´s only 400 miles anyway ... that´s not as bad as I thought. For such a short trip, that airfare is pretty frickin ridiculous.

I am strongly considering flying into Chicago and driving from there. 400 miles is nothing.

perhaps the best argument for a chicago ICT

The Game of the Week
White Wine and Dijon Rabbit Sausage with White Truffle Butter and Morbier Cheese
$7.00

The Roberto Garza (Today's Celebrity Sausage)
The Frankenwurst: One-Half Pound of Pure All-Beef Pleasure with your choice of condiments
$4.00

Other Specials
Cherry Pork Sausage with Morello Cherry Cream Sauce and Syrup-Soaked Figs
$6.50

Cajun Chorizo with Spicy Shrimp Mayonnaise and Gorgonzola Dolce
$6.00

Smoked Apple and Gouda Chicken Sausage with Sweet Curry Mustard and Smoked Gouda Cheese
$6.00

Brown Ale Buffalo Sausage with Chambly Noire Mustard and Extra-Sharp White Cheddar Cheese
$7.00

Merguez Lamb Sausage with Mango Chutney Mayonnaise and Feta Cheese
$6.00

Duck Fat Fries: $3.00

You could order all of these twice for the average flight price differential, and you'd be a better man for it.

http://www.hotdougs.com also gene & jude's

Rothlover wrote:perhaps the best argument for a chicago ICT

No. That's the best argument for a coronary bypass.

Theodore

vetovian wrote: Back to the topic: NAQT's pattern seems to be to have the ICT on the west coast every 7 years, like a sabbatical. I'm looking forward to a Vancouver 2010 ICT.

Sure... when it has its debut as an Olympic sport.

Hey wait... that Russian Judge isn't working properly...

Of course, we still have to have a first-ever Canadian ICT, which at this time ain't happenin'.

grapesmoker wrote:

Kentb426 wrote:According to mapquest, it´s only 400 miles anyway ... that´s not as bad as I thought. For such a short trip, that airfare is pretty frickin ridiculous.

I am strongly considering flying into Chicago and driving from there. 400 miles is nothing.

Consider Omaha, as the drive is shorter by about 75 miles, with less traffic. Southwest flies there.

Also consider driving to Boston and then flying to Minneapolis ($280).

E.T. Chuck wrote:Of course, we still have to have a first-ever Canadian ICT, which at this time ain't happenin'.

Toronto is as reasonable to get to as anywhere. Vancouver, not so much.

Matt Weiner wrote:

E.T. Chuck wrote:Of course, we still have to have a first-ever Canadian ICT, which at this time ain't happenin'.

Toronto is as reasonable to get to as anywhere. Vancouver, not so much.

Yeah Toronto is further south than the Twin Cities, so I hope we see that (or London, which is about the same latitude as Buffalo) as the host one year.

Matt Morrison wrote:Yeah Toronto is further south than the Twin Cities, so I hope we see that (or London, which is about the same latitude as Buffalo) as the host one year.

Will everyone have passports? New border rules would be a big hassle for people without (esp. freshmen D2 players), and getting a passport will be like adding $60 bucks (per person) to the entrance fee.

QuizBowlRonin wrote: Consider Omaha, as the drive is shorter by about 75 miles, with less traffic. Southwest flies there.

Also consider driving to Boston and then flying to Minneapolis ($280).

Thanks for the tip, but Omaha is still more expensive than Midway and 75 miles is not a big deal. Also, Boston is a colossal pain in the ass and still comes out more than $100 more expensive than Providence to Midway directly.

grapesmoker wrote:

QuizBowlRonin wrote: Consider Omaha, as the drive is shorter by about 75 miles, with less traffic. Southwest flies there.

Also consider driving to Boston and then flying to Minneapolis ($280).

Thanks for the tip, but Omaha is still more expensive than Midway and 75 miles is not a big deal. Also, Boston is a colossal pain in the ass and still comes out more than $100 more expensive than Providence to Midway directly.

I see PVD-Eppley at $225 on Northwest and PVD-Midway @ $210 - plus Chicago is a colossal pain in the ass from Midway trying to get out of town to the North.

Anyways, its your money.

Do we still have a qb team in Toronto that has 25 people who could staff it well?

Heck, if we're just looking up locations that are cheap to get to, ICT Las Vegas, Baby.

And points to bringing up the passport thing now.

I would love to go to Toronto again. I was there a few years ago for a week and thoroughly enjoyed it. Hmm... Vegas would be interesting as well.... more interesting for some than others, I suppose.

Kentb426 wrote:I would love to go to Toronto again. I was there a few years ago for a week and thoroughly enjoyed it. Hmm... Vegas would be interesting as well.... more interesting for some than others, I suppose.

Vegas would certainly be an interesting location. It's definitely very accessible in terms of price. Getting rooms would be a challenge, but didn't TRASH have a Vegas tournament or something?

E.T. Chuck wrote:Do we still have a qb team in Toronto that has 25 people who could staff it well?

I don't think there's even 25 people in the whole country who could staff it well.

Toronto will not be practical until U of T starts accommodating room bookings. The VETO mirror is limited to 8 teams for a reason. Also, there is very little in the way of decent inexpensive hotels near the 3 universities.

If there was going to be an ICT in Canada, it should have been a couple years ago when the exchange rate was so lopsided ($1 CDN = $0.65 US), it offset costs associated with going across the border.

grapesmoker wrote: Vegas would certainly be an interesting location. It's definitely very accessible in terms of price. Getting rooms would be a challenge, but didn't TRASH have a Vegas tournament or something?

Vegas would be an excellent choice, if only because I am a degenerate.

...basically turns U of Chicago and Northwestern into machines that constantly get rich off of everyone else's money.

You seem to be generally unfamiliar with the current Northwestern team. I would like to go on record as laughing uproariously at the thought of us being rich, much less getting "constantly" rich, off of anything.