posting stats

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posting stats

Post by grapesmoker » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:37 pm

Could everyone who isn't doing so already please post stats in SQBS format? These walls of texts are annoying and impossible to read; there's no reason not to use SQBS, which is simple and produces attractive output. If you don't have webspace, drop me or Dan Passner a line and we'll find space to post it for you.
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Re: posting stats

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:44 pm

grapesmoker wrote:there's no reason not to use SQBS
How about if you don't use Windows?
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Re: posting stats

Post by grapesmoker » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:52 pm

Bruce wrote:
grapesmoker wrote:there's no reason not to use SQBS
How about if you don't use Windows?
I find it impossible to believe that a club won't have a single person running Windows or doesn't have access to a Windows machine, but I'm willing to be proved wrong. Is that actually the case for any club?
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Post by Matthew D » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:03 am

Well they do have emulators for just about operating system.. and SQBS is not that much of a resource hog IMO

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Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:07 am

That's true; with the advent of Intel Macs and BootCamp, that will become less of a problem. However, the emulator argument is absurd, because Windows emulators for Mac cost like $100+. Nobody should be forced to pay that to run a freeware statkeeping software.

I can tell you, however, that at ACF Regionals 2006, Chicago very nearly did not have a stat room, because most of us are Mac users and nobody brought a Windows laptop. We finally made some freshman go and get one from his dorm, but it was close. We ended up buying a team laptop that ran Windows to avoid this problem in the future, but other programs may not be able to afford it.

But my point was really just to complain about the fact that software necessary for a sport in which a substantial number of players use Macs doesn't run on Mac OS.
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Post by First Chairman » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:10 am

Well, I'm hopeful that once Evan can get Taft to some semblance of working order that we can overcome the OS issue. Besides, who knows if Vista will screw up SQBS... :cool:
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Post by Matt Weiner » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:21 am

And what is with buzzer systems only working on 120V outlets? Some of us only use 240V because deviating from perfectly reasonable standards is so cool. Furthermore, those of us who are such beautiful and unique snowflakes definitely should not have to lift a finger to run tournaments properly in light of our self-imposed handicap--instead, everyone else should accomodate us. The next tournament I run will just have slap bowl unless somebody designs a free 240V system, and you'll all just have to deal with it.
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Post by grapesmoker » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:28 am

E.T. Chuck wrote:Well, I'm hopeful that once Evan can get Taft to some semblance of working order that we can overcome the OS issue. Besides, who knows if Vista will screw up SQBS... :cool:
I'll have to make a post about Vista in Off Topic at some point...

Anyway, I'm not saying you have to have the stats done 5 minutes after the tournament is over. If you have to do them in Excel or something for the tournament, fine, but then go home and enter them into SQBS.

Also, consider this: http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
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Post by First Chairman » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:31 am

I should see if I still have the Auburn Statkeeper program somewhere... it only ran on Macs.
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Post by BuzzerZen » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:59 am

Matt Weiner wrote:And what is with buzzer systems only working on 120V outlets? Some of us only use 240V because deviating from perfectly reasonable standards is so cool. Furthermore, those of us who are such beautiful and unique snowflakes definitely should not have to lift a finger to run tournaments properly in light of our self-imposed handicap--instead, everyone else should accomodate us. The next tournament I run will just have slap bowl unless somebody designs a free 240V system, and you'll all just have to deal with it.
Windows isn't a standard, Matt, it's a platform. Everyone has the right to choose their computing platform. You don't really have the right to choose what voltage of AC current you want piped into your house. Windows is not a "perfectly reasonable standard," it's a dominant platform, and the many people who choose not to use it (like myself) have the right to take care of our tournament statistics in the way we see fit.

On that note, if anybody else is interested in giving Taft a try, drop me a line and I'll set you up on my server.
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Post by ValenciaQBowl » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:30 am

Oh, well, I just did that for the Florida CC stats. Though it's distinctly possible that no one cares, I'll send the SQBS file to Jerry and Dan and one of them can put those numbers someplace if he wants to.

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Post by First Chairman » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:29 am

It may be a cool idea to begin an online repository of statistics (similar to what ballroom dance competitions do (you can guess why I really liked the concept from Evan). Probably for payment of setting up proper server space and other minor things, this can be done rather easily.

The next version, we get wireless handhelds to do stats.
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Post by AKKOLADE » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:00 pm

Between TAFT, SQBS and even that one Excel sheet from a few years ago (which should be usable on Macs, Windows and Linux systems), there's no excuse for a team to not put out stats in a reasonable format.

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Post by Mr. Kwalter » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:38 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:Windows is not a "perfectly reasonable standard," it's a dominant platform, and the many people who choose not to use it (like myself) have the right to take care of our tournament statistics in the way we see fit.
No, you don't. SQBS is the best program out there hands down, and it, unlike windows, is a perfectly reasonable standard. I don't care if you want to use macs, find a windows computer and use it for stats. If no member of your club uses a windows machine, your club is probably too small to be running a tournament anyway.
E.T. Chuck wrote:It may be a cool idea to begin an online repository of statistics (similar to what ballroom dance competitions do (you can guess why I really liked the concept from Evan). Probably for payment of setting up proper server space and other minor things, this can be done rather easily.
This is a major part of why the qbwiki was created. I completely agree with this and think we should start using the wiki to create wiki articles on every tournament that's held including links to the stats, which can also be posted on the qbwiki. Anyone agree?

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Post by BuzzerZen » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:52 pm

Kit Cloudkicker wrote: No, you don't. SQBS is the best program out there hands down, and it, unlike windows, is a perfectly reasonable standard. I don't care if you want to use macs, find a windows computer and use it for stats. If no member of your club uses a windows machine, your club is probably too small to be running a tournament anyway.
I'm not saying we don't use SQBS. We (TJ) always have, because it's been the best thing available and because the computers in the rooms we use run Windows. I viewed Matt's satire as a criticism of people who for some reason want to be allowed to decide what kind of computer they want to use for things. It's not small-minded, idiotic, or self-defeating to prefer using a Mac or Linux. It's patently idiotic to say "SQBS doesn't work on a Mac, therefore I will make no effort to provide good statistics," but it's also idiotic to say "There is only one good program to do stats with, therefore you are small-minded and foolish for not using Windows."

Fortunately, the platform-neutral, web-based nature of Taft will obviate the need for this discussion...hint hint quiz bowl community.
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Post by Matt Weiner » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:59 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:I viewed Matt's satire as a criticism of people who for some reason want to be allowed to decide what kind of computer they want to use for things.
It's a criticism of people who, for whatever reason, knowingly use a platform that is harder to find software for, and then use that as an excuse to not run tournaments properly. If you aren't prepared to either find a PC for your tournaments, or create a Mac alternative to SQBS that has all its functions (which Taft could someday become, but is not yet), then you are not a good TD. And it's your fault for not preparing for the consequences of using a Mac.

Maybe in a perfect world we could all use whatever novelty computing environments we want to and it wouldn't cause any problems, but in the real world you need to run SQBS at a proper tournament, and that means you need to find a PC, and that means you're just going to have to put in some extra effort or money if you decide to use a Mac.
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Post by Andy Saunders » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:It's a criticism of people who, for whatever reason, knowingly use a platform that is harder to find software for, and then use that as an excuse to not run tournaments properly. If you aren't prepared to either find a PC for your tournaments, or create a Mac alternative to SQBS that has all its functions (which Taft could someday become, but is not yet), then you are not a good TD. And it's your fault for not preparing for the consequences of using a Mac.

Maybe in a perfect world we could all use whatever novelty computing environments we want to and it wouldn't cause any problems, but in the real world you need to run SQBS at a proper tournament, and that means you need to find a PC, and that means you're just going to have to put in some extra effort or money if you decide to use a Mac.
I have to agree with Matt here.

As one example: Ben Smith at the University of Ottawa is probably the biggest Macintosh fan in the Canadian quiz bowl community, however, at every U of O tournament I've been to, he'll run SQBS using a PC emulator.
I certainly can't see why other TDs can't also make the effort to run a stats room exporting to a format that has become the de facto standard in quiz bowl.

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Post by First Chairman » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:07 pm

Besides, Macs can run Windows emulators. Saying you can't run SQBS because you own a Mac is a rather lame excuse, because OS X has the ability to share platforms with Windows. At least that's what the Apple folks show me and the science research profs here all the time. [Okay: Andy posts right before I submit my post...]

Sure, it may cost money to get an emulator, but still... it's easier for Mac users to run Windows software than the reverse.
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Post by BuzzerZen » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:38 pm

Ok, before this goes on: did Mac usage actually cause someone to fail to produce good stats anytime recently? I'm pretty sure this discussion is entirely theoretical.

Sigh...you know what they say about arguing on the Internet...
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Post by Chris Frankel » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:45 am

Sssshhhh guys, you might put a dent into Bruce's tired and played-out, "HEY GUYS I LIKE TO DO THINGS IN AN ABSURDELY ARCHAIC AND NONSENSICAL FASHION... PLEASE LOOK AT ME AND GIVE ME ATTENTION" gimmick; maybe he'll reply to this by reminding everyone that he is, gosh darnit, a William Henry Harrison era-Whig, and that of the 203981209 people who field Chicago's 5-6 teams, none of them, even the handful or so that own laptops and bring them regularly to help out with quiz bowl tournaments, can be bothered to bring a Windows-native one to store and post stats.
"They sometimes get fooled by the direction a question is going to take, and that's intentional," said Reid. "The players on these teams are so good that 90 percent of the time they could interrupt the question and give the correct answer if the questions didn't take those kinds of turns. That wouldn't be fun to watch, so every now and then as I design these suckers, I say to myself, 'Watch this!' and wait 'til we're on camera. I got a lot of dirty looks this last tournament."

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