Golden Hurricane Open III at University of Tulsa (10/6/07)

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jazzerpoet
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Golden Hurricane Open III at University of Tulsa (10/6/07)

Post by jazzerpoet »

Greetings, everyone! The TU Academic Bowl Team is pleased to announce that we will be hosting the Golden Hurricane Open III on Saturday October 6th, 2007 in Chapman Hall on the TU campus.

This is an open academic tournament, meaning that the field is open to all collegiate players (UG, Grad, and so forth), as long as they are affiliated with a college or university. And please note that, unlike in years past, this is an NAQT tournament, using Invitational Series (IS) #68.

And now for the important stuff...

Fees and Discounts
Base Fee: $90
Additional Team(s): $75 (per team)
Operational Buzzer Discount: -$10 (limit 2)
Volunteer Discount: -$10 (only if we use them)
Travel Discount: -$5/per 75 miles (max of -$25)
Minimum Fee: $60 (per team)

When registering, please indicate to me how many teams you will be bringing, in addition to their classification(s), as well as any buzzer systems and/or volunteers.

For this tournament, we are using the following classifications: Grad, Undergrad, and Novice (Freshmen and Sophomores only).

To register, or if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to contact me.

I hope to see many of you in Tulsa in October. Until then...

Thanks.
Cheers!
Angelo Malabanan
Tournament Director - Golden Hurricane Open III

E-mail: angelo-malabanan (at) utulsa (dot) edu

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Field Update

Post by jazzerpoet »

Here is the current field of teams for GHO III, as of 9/14/07...

Oklahoma State: 2-3 teams (1 Grad, 1 UG, 1? Novice)
Rolla: 2 teams (1 Grad, 1 UG)
Texas-Dallas: 2-3 teams (1 UG, 1-2 Novice)
Tulsa: 2 teams (2 Novice)

Also, the registration deadline will be on Wednesday October 3rd at 11:59pm CST.

Cheers!
Angelo Malabanan
Last edited by jazzerpoet on Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Kwalter
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Post by Mr. Kwalter »

Is there any good reason for your decision to run this tournament, which I have attended and enjoyed multiple times, on high school questions? It seems like there are numerous mirrorable low-level tournaments this fall (Matt Weiner's business, Parfait, etc), so why not do that? While I no longer play for any team in the SW, as someone who still has a vested interest in its growth as a region I am disappointed to see this backward step. It's especially ridiculous that it's an open tournament. If you have to run a HS tournament in college, at least restrict it to novice teams. Sorry about this belated castigation, but I didn't see the announcement before the recent update.

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Post by jazzerpoet »

Eric, while I respect your opinion, I must disagree with some of the points you made in your post.

First of all, while we would have loved to have mirrored an East Coast or Midwest tournament, this just did not work out with our schedule. We wanted to host a tournament at the beginning of October, and the only tournament which matched this criterion was EFT II (which is being mirrored at OU, and which we will be attending).

As for other mirrorable tournaments: PARFAIT, which we mirrored last year, is being held at the beginning of our Thanksgiving Break, so no one would have been on campus to read for it; and as for Titanomachy at Alabama, it was announced too late for us to do anything about it.

Secondly, using NAQT IS questions is, I think, the easiest way to attract new(er) programs to the active non-CBI circuit. So if you do care about the expansion of our region, it should not matter which kinds of questions are used; rather, hosting as many tournaments as possible should be the main goal, so that programs can experience all types of formats.

Thirdly, this is the beginning of the semester, and as such, this tournament will help to shed some of the rust off of veteran players, in addition to acclimating new players to the college game.

Fourthly, to be quite blunt, this region just plain does not enjoy ACF and ACF-style questions nearly as much as you (or many people in stronger/more active regions) do. Part of this stems from HS competitions in Oklahoma and the greater Southwest region, though myself and many others (including yourself) are trying to rectify the situation. And it is difficult, and at times discouraging, for a new player to transition to pyramidal questions from quick one-line tossups, as most kids from Oklahoma have to do.

Fifthly, while I do admit that NAQT IS questions are not the best way to test the knowledge bases for Grad students, they are still fun to play on. Moreover, since this region is so geographically expansive and tournament opportunities can sometimes be few and far between, I do not wish to neglect anyone (whatever their status may be) from participating in an activity that they enjoy, simply because the questions may not be of the highest standards.

Lastly, this tournament is about having fun, plain and simple. If you do not wish to participate in tournaments using IS questions, then that is your prerogative. But do not criticize someone else for playing on and enjoying them. All this negativity does no one any good.

Sorry for the long post.

Cheers!
Angelo Malabanan

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No Rules Westbrook
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Post by No Rules Westbrook »

I don't really want to muddle your tournament announcement with a bunch of partisan argumentation, but it's pretty unavoidable, since those arguments are utter horsecrap.

Certainly, you have the right to run your tourney on whatever questions you wish and people can choose to attend or not. But, "regions" do not like or dislike ACF-style questions, "people" do...if you're simply saying that not enough "people" in that region will attend a more ACF-style event, even one that's aimed toward new players - then fine, just say that. Secondly, it does not follow at all that a person "who cares about the expansion" of a region will promote hosting as many tourneys as possible without regard to what kind of tourneys they are. Just because I like the rain doesn't mean I'm happy whenever you pee on my leg. Perhaps, we're talking about the expansion of "good quizbowl" here, not any quizbowl.

Thirdly, it's of course no answer (not to mention probably false) to say that these sets are "fun" to play on. Fourthly, whatever point you're supposed to be making about rust and veteran players is silly - though it's probably a response to Kwartler's stuff about making it an open tourney, which is also silly...ooh, don't want those monster grad students of the southwest scaring off lesser mortals.

Anyway, carry on, just try to make reasonable arguments if you choose to defend stuff like this.

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Post by jazzerpoet »

Ryan, so I guess this means you will not be in attendance? What a shame! I was so looking forward to having in attendance someone as jovial and open-minded as you obviously are.

If you do not think that college players playing on IS sets is acceptable, then do not play on them. But I do think that it is wrong and narrow-minded for you to chastise someone who enjoys playing on them, regardless of their education.

And as for my comment about this "region" not liking ACF that much, just look at the numbers for the last few ACF Falls and ACF Regionals. Having one poorly-attended tournament is bad luck; having five in a row, that clearly shows a lack of interest in said tournament.

But I do appreciate your opinion and candor.

Angelo

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Post by DumbJaques »

Ryan, so I guess this means you will not be in attendance? What a shame! I was so looking forward to having in attendance someone as jovial and open-minded as you obviously are.

If you do not think that college players playing on IS sets is acceptable, then do not play on them. But I do think that it is wrong and narrow-minded for you to chastise someone who enjoys playing on them, regardless of their education.
I think Ryan's post mostly had to do with challenging your justification for running those tournaments and made it very clear that he wasn't just airing out his opinion or generalizing about "you people." Your post was the one with sarcasm, narrow interpretation, and frankly an off-base interpretation of what Ryan was saying.
Certainly, you have the right to run your tourney on whatever questions you wish and people can choose to attend or not
This doesn't sound like Ryan is chastising those who play on IS questions. You're sort of turning Ryan's post around, since it was pretty much a direct challenge of your logic, whereas you reacted like it was a comment directed at some nebulous group and didn't really address his points.

Ryan is an asshole though, and I'm hoping this thread heads straight to the forbidden zone. GO WESTBROOK
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Post by grapesmoker »

Maybe this is better placed in the discussion subforum, but I'll just reiterate briefly what I've already pointed out about IS question sets.

1) These are not college questions; they are at best advanced high school questions only suitable for hosting tournaments targeted towards new players.
2) If you play in such a tournament, don't fool yourself into thinking that it's representative of collegiate quizbowl. You will most likely not improve by playing in such events.
3) If this is the only viable option in your region at the moment, go ahead and play. But don't forget point #2.
Jerry Vinokurov
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Post by Birdofredum Sawin »

grapesmoker wrote:Maybe this is better placed in the discussion subforum, but I'll just reiterate briefly what I've already pointed out about IS question sets.

1) These are not college questions; they are at best advanced high school questions only suitable for hosting tournaments targeted towards new players.
2) If you play in such a tournament, don't fool yourself into thinking that it's representative of collegiate quizbowl. You will most likely not improve by playing in such events.
3) If this is the only viable option in your region at the moment, go ahead and play. But don't forget point #2.
Man, are we having this discussion yet again? I'll briefly reiterate the obvious, time-worn rejoinders:

1) It doesn't really make much sense to talk about "college" or "high school" questions, as if qualities like "collegeness" or "high schoolness" were somehow inherent in the questions themselves. It makes much more sense to talk about questions which are "appropriately difficult for a given tournament field," "too hard for the field," or "too easy for the field." There is no a priori way of determining which of these categories a particular set of questions falls into. If the tournament takes place and even the worst team in the field puts up like 500 ppg, then we'll know that IS sets aren't challenging enough for fall tournaments at Tulsa. Until then, maybe we should defer to the judgment of people who are actually in the region and might have a better sense of what their audience can take.

2) Not everyone who plays the game is "trying to improve." People who aren't trying to improve have no obvious reason to care whether a particular tournament is "representative of collegiate quizbowl."

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Post by No Rules Westbrook »

For the sake of clarity (and not for the sake, let's be quite clear, of convincing anyone that I'm not an asshole)...I'm not telling anybody that they have to be a "serious" qb player or have to find IS sets as unenjoyable as some people find them. I'm just heading off unfounded arguments which only confuse the issues at stake.

If the discussion is even partly about producing "good" quizbowl that pushes the game in the right direction, see Jerry's three-step post. If it's not at all about that...that's fine, but say that.

Also, resorting to the old "don't criticize anything...if you don't like it, just don't come" is just tiresome.

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Post by geekjohnson »

wow, who knew that, aside from being the top players, you guys are excellent marksmen. Soon, the planets shall align and you guys will be able to dictate what questions are used where, which honestly might be a relief, considering the same bitching would not crop ever again. one can only look forward to the day when the ministry of questions breaks down my door and whacks my head repeatedly with a blunt object, which finally makes me see the utter shame I should have for holding a tournament on questions unbecoming of collegiate quizbowl.

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Post by grapesmoker »

geekjohnson wrote:wow, who knew that, aside from being the top players, you guys are excellent marksmen. Soon, the planets shall align and you guys will be able to dictate what questions are used where, which honestly might be a relief, considering the same bitching would not crop ever again. one can only look forward to the day when the ministry of questions breaks down my door and whacks my head repeatedly with a blunt object, which finally makes me see the utter shame I should have for holding a tournament on questions unbecoming of collegiate quizbowl.
Dude, you can do whatever you want. I am not interested in dictating what's used where because I have enough trouble coordinating things in my backyard without getting involved in yours. I am stating my opinion of these questions, which I think are inferior to the question sets being currently produced for college play. I also advocate using player-produced sets over those produced by NAQT for reasons related to what I see as the commercialization of the game. If you don't care about these things, feel free to ignore me and use whatever questions you like.
Jerry Vinokurov
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code ape, loud voice, general nuissance

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Post by jazzerpoet »

Hey, here's a novel idea: how about we start talking about things that are, you know, pertinent to this specific tournament?

Thanks.
Angelo

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Final Field Update

Post by jazzerpoet »

Here is the final field for GHO III:

Oklahoma State: 3 teams (1 Grad, 1 UG, 1 Novice); 1 buzzer
Rolla: 2 teams (1 Grad, 1 UG); 1 buzzer
Texas-Dallas: 3 teams (1 UG, 2 Novice); 1 buzzer
Tulsa: 1 team (Novice); 1 buzzer

Cheers!
Angelo

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Results

Post by jazzerpoet »

Eight teams from four schools competed at the Golden Hurricane Open III at TU on Saturday October 6th.

After a 14-round double round robin, Oklahoma State A finished as tournament champions with a record of 13-1. Missouri-Rolla finished second at 12-2.

The top five individual scorers were: Nathaniel (TU A), Matt (UMR), Colin (OSU A), Allison (OSU B), and Lenzy (OSU A). In addition, Nathaniel was the neg king with 27 negs.

Moreover, I would like to thank all of the teams who showed up and competed at GHO III. I hope that you all enjoyed the tournament and will consider attending more TU-hosted tournaments in the future.

Also, I would like to thank of the TU members who showed up to read and scorekeep.

Stats can be viewed at our team website:

<www.orgs.utulsa.edu/academicbowl/tournaments.htm>

Thanks.
Cheers!
Angelo Malabanan
Tournament Director - Golden Hurricane Open III

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