ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

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ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

VETOX
Tenth Annual VANCOUVER ESTIVAL TRIVIA OPEN
plus Sixth Annual VETO'S EASTERN TRIVIA OPEN in TORONTO
SATURDAY, JULY 19, 2008

The Vancouver Estival Trivia Open (VETO) is the nation's longest-running annual quiz bowl tournament. Again, there will be a mirror in Toronto, and a championship match via telephone between the site winners. For up-to-date information, check the web page http://caql.org/events/veto08.html and the weblog http://veto.caql.org

VETO will be run "guerrilla" style, meaning:
* each team must bring an original packet of questions, which will not be edited by anyone else associated with the tournament;
* participants must moderate and keep score during rounds when they aren't playing.

Check the CAQL results page for links to detailed reports of VETO in previous years.

COSTS

This event is FREE of charge for those playing at either site.

WHO CAN PLAY

VETO is an "open" tournament in the sense that we don't exclude anyone because of age, student status, degrees obtained or not obtained, nationality, etc. However, recognizing that people come to VETO with vastly different levels of experience, we'd like to give priority to those who have a history of providing good questions in the tossup/bonus format.

So instead of accepting teams on a "first come, first served" basis until space fills up, this is what we'll do:
* Any team that has won VETO in a previous year (in Vancouver or in Ontario) has an automatic invitation to play this year.
* Any other team must apply to the VETO Invitation Committee.
* Applications are simple: just e-mail two OLD full-length quiz bowl packets (at least 20 tossups and 20 bonuses in each), such that the majority of the questions in both packets were written by members of your prospective team.
* If some of your team members have written a lot of questions separately but you don't actually have two packets to which you've together contributed a majority of the questions, then just send us 20 old tossups and 20 old bonuses that were all written by your members.
* Within a few days of receiving your application, the Invitation Committee will inform you of its decision either to accept or to defer your application. If your application is not accepted, you may appeal by sending us more old questions that you've written.
* Teams whose applications are deferred, either because they didn't have enough questions to show us or because their questions didn't meet our standards, will have another chance. After July 1, deferred teams will be allowed to play if there is still room. The Invitation Committee will decide whether each deferred team should write questions.

Don't feel intimidated by this application/invitation procedure. The point is to make sure that the people who will be writing the questions for VETO have experience writing questions. This is important because it's a guerrilla tournament, and nobody else will be editing. As for how high our standards are: the vast majority of the packets in the Stanford Archive would meet our criteria for acceptance.

Even if your team doesn't write questions, we expect you to have enough familiarity with the quiz bowl format to be able to staff games during your bye rounds.

A team can have any number of players, but no more than four can play at a time. If you don't have a full team of four, we can match you up with other players. Solo teams are OK, too: we'll set the schedule so that other teams will have byes and you won't have to staff more than one room by yourself.

The cap in Vancouver is 8 teams, and in Toronto is 12 teams.

WHEN

Saturday, July 19, 2008, from about 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. local time.
Note that this is the same day as the Chicago Open.

If you would like to participate in VETO, please notify us by Canada Day, July 1, 2008.

VANCOUVER LOCATION

This year, for the first time, VETO will be at the University of British Columbia's main campus on Point Grey. We'll be playing in the spanking new I.K. Barber Learning Centre, 1961 East Mall.

By road, Vancouver is about:
3 hours from Seattle;
9 hours from Eugene, Oregon;
18 hours from Berkeley, California;
24 hours from Irvine, California, or Las Vegas, Nevada;
39 hours from Tulsa, Oklahoma, or Chicago;
60 hours from Fairbanks.
All-day parking at UBC costs $4.00 on Saturdays.

Vancouver International Airport is a premier global gateway served by more than 40 airlines with scheduled direct flights from 31 communities in British Columbia, another 33 locations elsewhere in North America, 12 cities in Asia/Pacific, and 3 cities in Europe.

Devotees of Southwest Airlines or JetBlue may prefer to fly to Seattle/Tacoma and then take the Quick Shuttle or rent a car. Non-residents of Canada should have no problem driving an American rental car across the border, but Canadian residents aren't allowed to do this. Also keep in mind that even if it's cheaper to fly to Sea-Tac, if you factor in the time and money you spend on the 3 - 4 hours ground transportation each way, it may work out to be more worthwhile to take Air Canada or WestJet or another airline directly to Vancouver.

TORONTO LOCATION

VETO's Eastern Trivia Open will be held in the same place as last year: the second floor of the Bahen Centre for Information Technology (40 St. George St, immediately south of Russell St.) at the University of Toronto's downtown St. George campus. It is easily accessible from West of the city (Gardiner Expressway, exit at Spadina) or East/West on the 401 (exit at Avenue Road). On-campus parking is available either at the Rotman Building (second driveway north of Harbord St.) or along St. George, though many off-campus and nearby alternatives are possible. Located in the downtown core of Canada's largest city, the Bahen Centre is surrounded by Bloor, Spadina, and College Streets, all of which offer food and shopping for every taste and a wealth of other attractions. A quick drive to either Yonge or Queen St. W will yield more popular stops and diverse cuisine. For any additional directions or details, contact the site coordinator.

FORMAT

VETO 2008 will be run "guerrilla" style, without central editing and will be staffed by players. We'll play at least a full round-robin, as many rounds as packets from the two sites, likely ending in a site final (which some may consider an unfair format).

We're planning on having a Trans-Canada Championship Match over the telephone between the winners at each site.

Games will be conducted according to NAQT rules, except that matches will be untimed, with 20 tossups per round, and there will be no 15-point "power" tossups.

QUESTION PACKETS

Detailed question guidelines are on a separate web page which includes a section with many, many useful reference links categorized by subject.

Rounds will be untimed, with 20 tossups played in each. But you will have to write more than 20 tossups and 20 bonuses, because you may need tie-breaking questions, or you may end up having to throw out some questions because of game errors or because they ask for information that already came up in somebody else's packet.

So your packet should include (at least):
* 24 tossups, each worth 10 points -- no 15-point "powers";
* 22 bonuses, each worth 30 points -- but no single-part, single-answer questions.

Use the following subject distribution for both tossups and bonuses:

Science, Math, Technology 3 -- 4
History 3 -- 4
Literature 3 -- 4
Geography 2 -- 3
Current Events 2 -- 3
Fine Arts 1 -- 2
Religion, Philosophy, Mythology 1 -- 2
Social Science 1 -- 2
Popular Culture, Games, Sports 1 -- 2
General Knowledge 0 -- 3

Canadian content quota:
Of the first 20 tossups, at least 4 must refer to Canadian people, places, things, events, and created works. The same goes for the first 20 bonuses. But overall, don't exceed 50% Canadian content in your packet. Your Canadian questions should also cover diverse subject areas and not be clustered in Geography or Literature, etc.

Tossups should include at least two separate clues, preferably at least four. Multiple-choice bonuses should be used sparingly, if at all, and should provide at least four choices.

In order that we can keep to a reasonable schedule, questions must not be too long:
* No tossup question, and no part of a bonus question, should exceed 6 lines if using a fixed-width font with 79 characters per line.
* No bonus question should ever require more than four separate team conferrals.

To promote fun and variety, teams are encouraged to bring multimedia questions (visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, gustatory). These tend to work better as bonuses than as tossups. Let us know if you plan to have any audio questions, so that we can arrange enough of the proper equipment to play them.
Every packet must contain at least one multimedia question: It can be as simple as presenting a printout of a picture you found through Google and asking a few questions about the picture.

For our further amusement, we encourage rounds with hidden themes. In the past couple of years, we've had:
* a packet in which every tossup answer was also the name of a school that had participated in the SmartAsk TV game show;
* a packet in which every answer contained the name of an animal;
* a packet in which every answer contained the syllable "NI";
* a packet in which every tossup answer began with the letter T, and every bonus had either answers beginning with the letter B or a theme that began with the letter B;
* a packet in which every tossup answer had some connection to the number two, and every bonus had some connection to the number three;
* a packet in which the answer to every tossup contained the number of the tossup.

The Stanford archive contains most of the question packets used at VETO in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. You might note that some writers did not follow all of the guidelines. :)

We've taken the list of answers that have come up in VETO in 2005 through 2007 and categorized them by subject. Try to write about things that are not on this list.

PRIZES

The leading individual scorer at VETO in Vancouver will take over the title of West Coast Dominatrix of Relevant Knowledge (WC-DORK).
The leading individual scorer at VETO in Toronto will take over the title of Nerd Of The East (NOTE).

Anyone may sponsor a prize and select a winner according to any criteria. In the past, we've had up to 22 prizes awarded to invididuals and teams in a single VETO.

OTHER STUFF TO DO IN VANCOUVER, AND PLACES TO STAY

Separate studies released in 2007 by the U.K.-based Economist Intelligence Unit and the U.S.-based Mercer Human Resource Consulting both concluded that Vancouver offers the highest quality of life of any city in the entire world (or the world outside Switzerland, according to Mercer). We are not exaggerating; check the links yourself.

Special events to entice you:
* The 31st Annual Vancouver Folk Music Festival will take place on the same weekend as VETO.
* The day before VETO, the West Point Grey Community Centre will be hosting the 18th annual Sandcastle Competition on Spanish Banks West Beach.
* The day after VETO, you may watch or participate in the 23rd annual S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Walk With The Dragon in Stanley Park.
* The 6th Congress of the International Society for Theoretical Chemical Physics begins on VETO weekend at UBC.

See http://www.tourismvancouver.com for more information about Vancouver, including links to special promotions.

Read or listen to the French consul's poetic tribute to Vancouver: Parler de Vancouver, / C'est vancouversifier.

The Pacific Spirit Hostel on the UBC campus would be the most convenient place to stay. Including taxes, single rooms are $37.29 per night, and double rooms are $74.58 per night.

There are other hotels and motels in Vancouver. Just stay away from postal code prefix V6A.

CONTACT

If you are interested in participating, please contact the appropriate site coordinator by Canada Day, July 1, 2008.
Vancouver: Peter at [email protected] (pmcc at alumni.sfu.ca)
Toronto: Jason at [email protected] (jason.dickson at utoronto.ca)

Updates will be posted on the web page http://caql.org/events/veto08.html

"A lot of Imperialist ladies asked me to tea to meet schoolmasters from New Zealand and editors from Vancouver, and that was the dismalest business of all."
- John Buchan, The Thirty-Nine Steps
Peter, SFU alumnus

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

The Vancouver location has moved from SFU to UBC. I've edited the announcement to reflect the change. The reason for the move is that UBC is a more convenient location for most of the regular VETO players. But it's also closer to all the other events I mentioned that might entice you to come to Vancouver that weekend: the folk festival, the sandcastle competition the day before VETO, the Walk with the Dragon the day after VETO, and the international theoretical chemical physics congress.

The set of teams that we're expecting so far in Vancouver happens to be the same as the set of all teams that have won VETO in a previous year:
* FARSIDE
* B2B
* SFU Junta
* UBC A
* UBC B

Let us know by Canada Day, Tuesday, July 1, if you want to participate, in either Vancouver or Toronto.
Peter, SFU alumnus

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by bsmith »

Stats for the Toronto side prelims:

http://ca.geocities.com/uotrivia/veto08 ... dings.html

Semifinals and finals were best 2 of 3 with the round-robin match being the first game. Toronto A beat Toronto B in the first match of the 1 vs 4 semifinal; Ottawa won both matches against Western 150-85 and 210-185. Toronto A won the first match of the final 255-185 over Ottawa.

Personally, I was impressed that 15 packets could be pried from the teams. "VETO being VETO" was reduced in the (9) packets I heard, but there are still problems. I also appreciated more writers taking the approach of "let's have fewer questions go dead", and I think there were zero 30-20-10s (my pet peeve). I noticed that packets used my Word template, so people are actually looking at writing guides...
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

Here are the quick results from yesterday's VETO at UBC.

Round-robin:
6 - 1 B2B (Bruce, Brock, Mischa, Martin, Flavia)
5 - 2 UBC B (Zarya, Trevor, Tex, Angie)
4 - 3 UBC C (Brendan, Michael, Daniel)
4 - 3 UBC A (Mike, Jimmy, Paul)
3 - 4 Junta (Bad Horse, Wilbur, Hammer, Buford)
3 - 4 Oregon (Phil, Amy, Joel)
2 - 5 SFU BRRG (Brittany, Rajon, Ross, Geoff)
1 - 6 FARSIDE (Peter)

B2B and UBC B then advanced to the finals.
Since UBC B had beaten B2B in the round-robin, UBC B would have to beat B2B only once, but B2B would have to beat UBC B twice.

The first round of finals was won by UBC B, with a score of 95 to 75.
Therefore, there was no need for a second round.
UBC B is the winner of the tenth annual Vancouver Estival Trivia Open.
Peter, SFU alumnus

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Canadian Quizbowl

Post by cvdwightw »

vetovian wrote:Round-robin:
6 - 1 B2B (Bruce, Brock, Mischa, Martin, Flavia)
5 - 2 UBC B (Zarya, Trevor, Tex, Angie)
...
Since UBC B had beaten B2B in the round-robin, UBC B would have to beat B2B only once, but B2B would have to beat UBC B twice.
I really don't understand this. Is this some kind of Canadian Finals Format that I've not been introduced to? It seems to me that a team that would have won the tournament, were there no playoff packets available, should not be at a one-game disadvantage in a final. As far as I can tell this playoff format completely disregards the fact that B2B beat two opponents that UBC B failed to beat. Clearly, B2B's ONE loss counts infinity times as much as UBC B's TWO losses (since UBC B's two losses apparently count for nothing).
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by adambishop »

Yeah the playoff thing was a little strange, we did that in Toronto too, and it resulted in Western being eliminated after losing twice to Ottawa (which was not the even same Ottawa team they beat earlier, by the way, since they brought Tamara in for the playoffs...).

Overall though I thought it was an improvement over previous VETOs. It still takes too long to play too few rounds, but at least on the Ontario side, the packets seem to be getting better. They're still not great, but it didn't seem like anyone was being defeated by the packets like in previous years. (But as usual I'm sure you will all have fun picking out the worst questions, once they are available.)

The Vancouver packets sucked as usual though. Visual tossups? Seriously? I wish we hadn't saved those for the playoffs.
Adam Bishop, formerly of Western Ontario, occasionally of Toronto

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by First Chairman »

Moderating reminder, Adam: ID yourself in your .signature and activate it if you can.

Resume discussion.

EDIT: I have been corrected by Fred regarding the rules. Using your real name as an ID fulfills the identification requirement. Disregard.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by AKKOLADE »

I'm not sure which hurts my brain more, the concept of a visual toss-up or the playoff decision but holy hell my mind is blown.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by theattachment »

Yeah, if someone semi-enlightened can explain how a team with a worse record has an ADVANTAGE in a final, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by The Time Keeper »

theattachment wrote:Yeah, if someone semi-enlightened can explain how a team with a worse record has an ADVANTAGE in a final, I'd greatly appreciate it.
It's a bad tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

cvdwightw wrote:
vetovian wrote:Round-robin:
6 - 1 B2B (Bruce, Brock, Mischa, Martin, Flavia)
5 - 2 UBC B (Zarya, Trevor, Tex, Angie)
...
Since UBC B had beaten B2B in the round-robin, UBC B would have to beat B2B only once, but B2B would have to beat UBC B twice.
I really don't understand this. Is this some kind of Canadian Finals Format that I've not been introduced to? It seems to me that a team that would have won the tournament, were there no playoff packets available, should not be at a one-game disadvantage in a final.
This finals format was my idea, and I take full blame for it.
We've been using it at VETO for a number of years, and this isn't the first time that the team with the worse overall win-loss record has been given a one-game advantage in the finals.

The rationale is this: We want to have finals between the two top teams in the round-robin, regardless of the round-robin results; we have time for at most two rounds of finals; and we don't want the winner of the finals (between those two top teams) to be entirely dependent on a single game on a single packet. So these conditions lead us to a two-round final with a one-game advantage for one team. Now the question is how to determine which team gets the one-game advantage. It would make a lot of sense to give the advantage to the team with the better win-loss record (if they are different). But that line of reasoning also suggests that every game should be given the same weight in determining the overall champion, and if we follow that reasoning to its logical conclusion, it would mean that if the #1 team from the RR won two more RR games than the #2 team, the #1 team should automatically win, with no finals. In some playoff formats, this is exactly what is done, for this reason. But we want to have finals to determine the champion in all cases regardless of what happened in the RR. So my idea is that we take the top two teams from the RR, and once we've found them, we forget about the games they played against other teams, and look only at games between those two teams to decide the champion. It may turn out that the team that loses the final actually won a total of more games than the champion did. But in that event, it's hard for this team to complain that it should be the "rightful" champion, because it's been beaten twice by the official champion.

At the beginning of the day, we thought we might have enough time for three rounds of playoffs, so some of the curlers present suggested that we try Page playoffs. In that system, #1 plays #2 while #3 plays #4; then the winner of #3 vs. #4 plays the loser of #1 vs. #2; then that game's winner plays the winner of #1 vs. #2. But we didn't use this system, because by the time the RR finished, it was only an hour and 15 minutes before the building was to close, so we wouldn't have time for three more rounds.
Peter, SFU alumnus

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Really?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by dtaylor4 »

Two points:

1) Under the system you used, you're still double-counting a random game, which is stupid.

2) Why would you ever want to mimic CBI?

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

dtaylor4 wrote:Two points:

1) Under the system you used, you're still double-counting a random game, which is stupid.
In a way, yes. But that game is the one between the two teams that make the finals.
dtaylor4 wrote:2) Why would you ever want to mimic CBI?
What does CBI do that what I've posted appears to mimic?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by cvdwightw »

OK, now I understand where it's coming from, but I still don't get it. I don't know who beat whom, but I'm going to assume that at least one of the 4-3 teams beat UBC B to finish 4-3 with one loss to B2B and two losses to teams at 4-3 or worse. Now let's change the result of one of those two losses, and now there's two teams at 5-2. By this rationale, UBC A/C (whichever beat UBC B) takes the 2nd and final playoff spot over UBC B due to head-to-head, and B2B has a one-game finals advantage over UBC A/C due to head-to-head.

In other words, not only the fact that UBC B had a one-game finals advantage, but the fact that they were even in the finals at all was ultimately (in retrospect) determined by a single match between two teams who were not, ultimately, in the finals. Should a team that needed an upset to even make it to the finals seriously get an advantage?

This playoff system, as set up, excessively punishes teams for losing to the top teams in the tournament because it perversely ignores teams' losses to teams that are not the top teams in the tournament. The fact remains that UBC B lost two games to teams that were, by record, inferior to them, while B2B lost one; however, B2B is punished for that one loss and UBC B gets off scot-free for both of their losses. In this case, 1+1 < 1.

Why not use the NAQT Finals Format where regardless of how many games ahead of the second-place team the first-place team is, there is still a final with the first-place team getting only a one-game advantage? This ensures that a finals game will take place between the two best teams in the tournament, and counts all games equally in determining who is in the finals and who has the advantage.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by dtaylor4 »

vetovian wrote:What does CBI do that what I've posted appears to mimic?
It's not an exact mimic, but go look up CBI's "Final Four" system used at nationals. Also, I refuse to be involved with any tournament run by the person who thinks curling's finals system is good for quizbowl.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Implementing any other features of curliing in quizbowl, though? Gold.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by dtaylor4 »

everyday847 wrote:Implementing any other features of curliing in quizbowl, though? Gold.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by fizzball »

dtaylor4 wrote:I refuse to be involved with any tournament run by the person who thinks curling's finals system is good for quizbowl.
Minimum 30 min. drinking and cardplaying between matches, winning team buys the first round. Downside?


If you're determined to have playoff rounds, a Page playoff *can* determine a more fair outcome than a straight semifinal, especially if packet quality is an issue. Go 11-0 in an RR and your reward shouldn't be a loss to a 7-4 team on a sketchy packet.

On the other hand, it's a waste to burn three packets on four teams, not to mention tiebreak rounds for seeding (which really must be played--if you're using Page, statistical tiebreaks are bad), and upset-fairness issues are more easily settled with an advantaged final.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by Auroni »

everyday847 wrote:Implementing any other features of curliing in quizbowl, though? Gold.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

cvdwightw wrote:This playoff system, as set up, excessively punishes teams for losing to the top teams in the tournament because it perversely ignores teams' losses to teams that are not the top teams in the tournament. The fact remains that UBC B lost two games to teams that were, by record, inferior to them, while B2B lost one; however, B2B is punished for that one loss and UBC B gets off scot-free for both of their losses. In this case, 1+1 < 1.
In a sense, yes, if you're talking only about the two teams with the best win-loss records.
cvdwightw wrote:Why not use the NAQT Finals Format where regardless of how many games ahead of the second-place team the first-place team is, there is still a final with the first-place team getting only a one-game advantage? This ensures that a finals game will take place between the two best teams in the tournament, and counts all games equally in determining who is in the finals and who has the advantage.
I explained the rationale for not using NAQT Finals Format in my earlier post:
vetovian wrote:It would make a lot of sense to give the advantage to the team with the better win-loss record (if they are different). But that line of reasoning also suggests that every game should be given the same weight in determining the overall champion, and if we follow that reasoning to its logical conclusion, it would mean that if the #1 team from the RR won two more RR games than the #2 team, the #1 team should automatically win, with no finals.
In single-pool NAQT and VETO, the two best teams are picked basically in the same way, except for tie-breakers. The difference is in the determination of which team gets a one-game advantage: the team with the better record (NAQT format) or the team that won the RR game (VETO format). Consider what you might hear from the team that loses in the finals. Which complaint do you feel deserves more sympathy:
- NAQT format: "It's true that the champions had a better record against the lower-ranked teams, but when we played them, we actually beat them twice, before they finally beat us once, for the first time, in the last round."
- VETO format: "It's true that the champions beat us both times we played them, but we had a better record against the lower-ranked teams; therefore, we should have been given a third chance to try to beat that team."
I don't think either complaint deserves a lot of sympathy, but I'd be less sympathetic to the second one.
Peter, SFU alumnus

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

dtaylor4 wrote:
vetovian wrote:What does CBI do that what I've posted appears to mimic?
It's not an exact mimic, but go look up CBI's "Final Four" system used at nationals.
Maybe the question "Why would you ever want to mimic CBI?" was intended to be ironic, but in case it wasn't, there's no getting around the fact that ACF, NAQT, and circuit quizbowl all mimic CBI in their basic format.

Apparently College Bowl NCT uses double elimination among the final four. This would require up to four rounds, one more than Page playoffs. I had been considering two-round advantaged semifinals and two-round advantaged finals before the curlers suggested Page playoffs.
dtaylor4 wrote: Also, I refuse to be involved with any tournament run by the person who thinks curling's finals system is good for quizbowl.
What aspect of curling's finals system makes it not good for quizbowl?
Very few readers here follow curling at all, so if this is a reference to some essential difference between curling and other sports with respect to what tournament formats make sense, or if this is a reference to some controversy about the fairness of the outcome of Page playoffs in actual bonspiels, you'll have to provide more explanation.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by millionwaves »

I have split discussion of Canadian quizbowl in general from this topic. You can discuss it over here.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: VETO in Vancouver and Toronto, 7/19/2008

Post by vetovian »

Full results in Vancouver are now available.

The question packets are now being collected to be sent to the Stanford archive.
Peter, SFU alumnus

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