ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

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ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Your Genial Quizmaster » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:22 pm

The UTC Academic Trivia Association will host our 11th annual Center of the Known Universe Open (COTKU) on Sat., Oct. 18th, 2008. This will be a one-day academic quizbowl tournament in modified-ACF format, held on the campus of the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. It will be followed on Sun. 10/19 with the Big Lots Open trash tournament; details will follow in a separate announcement.

THE BASICS:
1) This year’s COTKU will be a mirror of the Minnesota Open, so packet submission is not required. However, teams can still earn discounts for writing questions – for use at our other tournaments.
2) We will have two divisions, based on experience level, with the same questions used for both divisions.
3) Base fee is $150 per team. Discounts can be earned to bring that all the way to $0, by writing questions and/or providing officials for various UTC tournaments.
4) The tournament is designed for collegiate teams, but we will accept open teams, space permitting.

Full details follow below.

SCHEDULE: Registration will begin at 9 AM EDT 10/18/08, with announcements and schedule adjustments at 9:45 and tournament play beginning at 10 AM. Tournament HQ will be 129 Grote Hall on the UTC campus; see directions below. We hope to be into playoffs by 7:30 PM and finished by 8:30, but experience has taught us never to make any promises on when we finish. Actual tournament play will be in Brock and Holt Halls (the classrooms in Grote are being renovated this semester.) So if any of your players have disabilities or access issues, please let us know in advance. That way we can take it into account when scheduling (building changes, etc.)

REGISTRATION: Our only pre-registration requirements are that you tell us:
- How many teams to expect
- In which division each team will compete
- How many buzzers and officials (if any) you expect to bring
Please e-mail this information to utcquizbowl (at) gmail (dot) com.

Payment, rosters, etc., can be handled on the day of the tournament. Payment is expected on tournament day unless arranged otherwise in advance. If you need an invoice or other official paperwork in advance, let us know and we'll be happy to oblige.

ELIGIBILITY: This tournament is designed for teams of current college students, with all players on a given team affiliated with the same university. If space permits, we will accept mixed-affiliation or purely open (i.e., non-collegiate) teams. However, the field is limited to 36 teams, and collegiate teams will be given first priority.

The tournament field will be divided into two divisions for separate play and awards. Division II will be limited to players in their first and second year of intercollegiate quizbowl play, with one extra year of eligibility allowed for players on teams from 2-year schools. (Note: due to the difference in formats, prior experience in College Bowl Inc., Honda Campus All-Star Challenge, or tournaments restricted to junior colleges will not count as prior experience when determining Division II eligibility.)

FEES: Base fee: $150; assumes no buzzers, officials, or questions are provided.

DISCOUNTS: (As noted above, fees can be reduced to zero!)
* Question discounts:
- $2 discount for every usable, original, high-school-level question sent to us by Sunday, Sept. 14.
- $1 discount for every usable, original, high-school-level question sent to us after 9/14 but no later than Tuesday, Sept. 23.
- $1 discount for every usable, original trash (pop culture) question sent to us by Friday, Oct. 17.
Questions should be submitted in MS Word or RTF format to utcacfediting (at) gmail (dot) com.

* Other discounts:
- $ 5 for working lockout buzzer system (up to three discounts per team)
- $10 (plus dinner at Provino's or equivalent gas money) for each competent full-time official for either COTKU itself, or the Big Lots trash tournament on 10/19
- $25 (plus dinner at Provino’s or equivalent gas money) for each competent full-time official provided for UTC’s high school tournament on Sat. 9/27
- $25 for teams making their first appearance at UTC

DRIVING DIRECTIONS:
From Atlanta and points south -- take I-75 to Chattanooga, then I-24 west towards downtown, then follow the freeway splitoff for U.S. 27 North, downtown Chattanooga. From 27 North take the 4th Street exit, within sight of the Tennessee Aquarium. Go right on 4th St. (you have no choice) and follow it for ca. 1 mile. Go past the UTC Arena, after which E. 4th St. becomes part of E. 3rd St. After that, take the second right on Palmetto St. Go two blocks and turn right on Vine St. (just past the EMCS Building.) Just before the place where Vine St. is blocked off, the parking lot for Grote and Holt Halls is on the right. Try the door by the dumpster first, but it may be locked due to security issues. If it's locked, look to your left and enter Grote by the door closest to Vine St.

From Knoxville and points north -- take I-75 to Chattanooga, then I-24 West; directions from there same as above.

From Nashville and points west/north: Take I-24 east to Chattanooga. As you round Moccasin Bend (freeway goes alongside river) watch for two exit lanes on the right; take the less rightward of the two, which will have signs above it for U.S. 27 N. Rest of directions are the same as above.

From Birmingham and points southwest: Take I-59 to the outskirts of Chattanooga, where it dead-ends into I-24. Get on I-24 East and follow the Nashville directions from there.

CONTACTS:
General tournament business (inquiries, registration, etc.): utcquizbowl (at) gmail (dot) com
Question submission: utcacfediting (at) gmail (dot) com
Snail mail: UTC A.T.A., c/o Charlie Steinhice, 8821 Winterberry Rd., Chattanooga, TN 37421.
-- Charlie Steinhice
Coach, UTC Academic Trivia Association
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
utcquizbowl [at] gmail [dot] com

"Come, come! Why, they couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
-- Gen. John Sedgwick, 1864 (technically not his very last words, but close enough)

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by theMoMA » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:51 pm

I'd like to add that if any teams at this site (or any mirror sites) are looking to write a quality half-packet for Minnesota Open, we will give you a $15 discount out of the mirror fee, $30 for a whole packet. This would be due by our no penalty deadline, which is September 25.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by 49-Mile Scenic Drive » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:17 pm

Snead State Community College would like to bring 1 DII team.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Headmaster Thursby » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:54 pm

Wake Forest is probably interested in sending a team to this. What's the field looking like?

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ericblair » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:15 pm

Open Team consisting of myself and a good friend, Sam Keathley, are planning to attend. I am a recent Georgetown College graduate who teaches ESL. Sam is a sophomore at U of KY studying sociology.

We are hitching a ride with Georgetown College, who I'm not sure has contacted Charlie, but is set on going.

I'm curious as well to see an updated list.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by cchiego » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:54 pm

UGA is interested as well, but we're not sure yet if it's worth missing a matchup with #13 ranked Vanderbilt for it. More info/field update would be appreciated.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by vandyhawk » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:05 am

uga_chris wrote:UGA is interested as well, but we're not sure yet if it's worth missing a beatdown by #13 ranked Vanderbilt for it. More info/field update would be appreciated.
Fixed. Hopefully Vandy is bringing a couple teams, but I haven't talked to them at all about it.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by wd4gdz » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:15 am

I guess I'll be rooting for MSU and UT next weekend.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ChopinManiac » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:02 pm

Can we please get a field update for this tournament?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by vandyhawk » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:51 am

Apparently Vandy won't be there. It's fall break, and the people with cars have other plans it would seem.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Scipio » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:15 pm

Hey, is there any way someone from UGA could contact me? I have a question/proposition to raise.

My e-mail is camillus at gmail dot com.

Thanks.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Your Genial Quizmaster » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:39 pm

With just under a week to go till COTKU 10/18/08, here's the field as we have it. By my math, we have somewhere between 20 and 27 teams. That's a wide window, but we have several question marks. Also, of the teams listed below, I only know of one team (from Louisville) planning to play in Big Lots on Sun. 10/19. If we're wrong on any or all counts, please let us know at utcquizbowl at gmail dot com. Thanks.

Alabama 2-3 teams (divisions unknown)
Auburn-Montgomery 1 (div. unknown)
Berry 1 (Div. II)
Bevill State CC 1 (Div. II)
Dalton State 2 (both Div. II)
Duke 1-2 (1 Div. I)
Florida State 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Georgetown College 1 (Div. II)
Georgia Tech 2 (div's unknown)
Louisville 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Snead State 1 (Div. II)
Tennessee 2-3 (2 Div. II)
Wofford 1 (Div. 1)
Open team - Blair et al. (Div. I)

Also, I have Florida, Georgia, and Wake Forest listed as "probable" pending confirmations. GPC, South Carolina and Vandy have RSVP'd regrets.
UTC may or may not have a house team, depending on the availability of officials.
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utcquizbowl [at] gmail [dot] com

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-- Gen. John Sedgwick, 1864 (technically not his very last words, but close enough)

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Field update: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Your Genial Quizmaster » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:30 pm

Here's a field update. We're now expecting 24 teams -- 11 (including two open teams) in Division I and 13 in Division II:

Alabama 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Auburn-Montgomery 1 (Div. I)
Berry 1 (Div. II)
Bevill State CC 1 (Div. II)
Dalton State 2 (both Div. II)
Duke 1 (1 Div. I)
Florida State 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Georgetown College 1 (Div. II)
Georgia Tech 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Louisville 2 (1 Div. I, 1 Div. II)
Northeast Alabama 1 (Div. II)
Snead State 1 (Div. II)
South Florida 1 (Div. I)
Tennessee 2 (2 Div. II)
Virginia Tech 1 (Div. I)
Wofford 1 (Div. 1)
Open team - Blair et al. (Div. I)
Open team - Kendall (Div. I)

Florida is also probable for one Div. I team.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by wd4gdz » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:14 am

Lit singles please...
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ChopinManiac » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:26 am

I'll second the lit singles request
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:08 am

I would definitely be interested in a Lit. Singles instead of a Trash tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Saiem » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:14 am

Lit singles also.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by CaseRAR » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:45 pm

Yeah. I would most definitely rather play lit singles
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by wd4gdz » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:24 am

Div I results
1. USF
2. Seth Kendall
3. FSU
4. UGA
5. Va Tech

Div II results
1. GA Tech B

Lit Singles
1. Jon from UGA
2. Billy from FSU
3. Rob from USF
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by AdamL » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:19 pm

This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)

Edit: apparently the phrase "take names" doesn't mean exactly what I thought it meant.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:35 pm

AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)

Edit: apparently the phrase "take names" doesn't mean exactly what I thought it meant.
Given that there 13 rounds to play, I think UTC did a nice job of attempting to finish this tournament as quickly as possible. There wasn't a lot of waiting in between rounds, which is something that usually runs rampant in UTC tournaments. Thanks to all who helped run this tournament.

EDIT: I seemed to have forgotten that Adam graduated last year.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Cooper98 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:33 pm

AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)

Edit: apparently the phrase "take names" doesn't mean exactly what I thought it meant.
m

Same for Us
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ericblair » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:23 pm

when can we get the full round-by-round and individual stats?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by AndyShootsAndyScores » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:51 pm

post stats, plzkthx.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by CaseRAR » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:10 pm

Agreed. Playing on that set of questions got old by the end of the day.
Also, stats would be nice.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by cchiego » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:08 pm

Appropriateness of the questions for the teams assembled here aside, this tournament had some major problems.

First, a few minor issues: if you're given powers in the questions, use them. Yes, some high school tournaments in the Southeast don't like powers and/or negs- this isn't high school anymore. When editors and writers take the time to add powers to a set in use all across the nation, it doesn't take a significant amount of effort on scorekeepers' parts to do so. I also heard that finals packets were randomly sprinkled throughout the tournament- not sure whose fault this is, but it would be nice to be given warning if a packet is going to be significantly more difficult.
AndyShootsAndyScores wrote:Given that there 13 rounds to play, I think UTC did a nice job of attempting to finish this tournament as quickly as possible.
I'm happy to hear that rounds in DII went well. DI was a slightly different story. The tournament kept moving, but at a pace slightly faster than matatus on rural Kenyan highways. I like chatting with the other team and the moderator as much as anyone- quizbowl has a very collegial atmosphere and we could all bond at this tournament over the difficulty of the questions. But some rounds took 50+ minutes because the moderator couldn't resist stopping before, during, and after every question to insert his/her opinion while engaging in needless banter. If you can't find better moderators, don't accept so many teams; eliminate DII and go to DI entirely for hard tournaments.

Furthermore, don't waste time in the pre-tournament meeting with "Charlie's Rules" or with extremely drawn-out awards ceremonies at the end. If you have to do an awards ceremony, do it quickly- it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes. I like a shiny trophy as much as the next person- they're good for recruiting and showing to sponsors- but I don't mind if I can just pick it up after play finishes. I would mind even less if I got an online gift certificate in an email later on instead if it allowed me to get back 30 minutes earlier. I understand that there was some stalling done to allow for final stats to be calculated, but this was half an hour after DII ended and after the lit tournament, so stats ought to have been done.

This was my first time at a UTC tournament and I honestly have to say the experience was not positive. I really don't think it would be too hard to improve: reduce the size of the tournament to maximize efficiency for the size of the resources you have. Some teams like the current laid-back style, but I'd really like to either play quizbowl or get home earlier from a tournament. Sitting around waiting when we didn't have to just doesn't cut it for me.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ericblair » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:01 am

As far as the powers go, I agree with Chris. If they are bolded in the packets, then go with it. It didn't really affect me that much; I may have only gotten three or four in the bold portions, but I'm sure there were players there that answered early more frequenty, which is deserving of the extra five points.

The talking during matches is something that does annoy me a bit. At this tournament I was more tolerant of it, especially on tossups or bonuses that just overwhelmed players. We all kind of shared in one another's pain at times. Had this been a tournament though where questions were far more answerable, I don't think this tournament would've been like that. Teams would've been more into the questions instead of suffering as many did. That, at least, is what I recall from past tournaments held at UTC where questions have been far easier.

UGA, I really enjoyed the match against you guys. Very uppity spirits. My teammate and I had only good things to say about you guys afterwards. I just wish that we'd been able to convert on some of our science bonuses, actually convert on any bonus. That was certainly our weakness, which of course results from lack of depth of knowledge (which I'm working on finally). Hope to see you all at another tournament in the near future.
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RESULTS: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Your Genial Quizmaster » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:07 am

Congratulations to the winners of the Center of the Known Universe Open (COTKU), UTC’s academic quizbowl tournament on Sat. 10/18/08:

DIVISION I (varsity)
1st: South Florida
2nd: Georgia
3rd: Florida State
4th: Virginia Tech

DIVISION II (junior varsity)
1st: Georgia Tech B
2nd: Tennessee A
3rd: Northeast Alabama C.C.
4th: Alabama B

Among the open teams, which sounded a lot like Jackson's Kitchen Cabinet, Kendall defeated Blair & Keathley for the top spot.

In the special literature singles event, Jon Okon (Georgia) put on a furious late charge to pass Billy Beyer (Florida State) and claim first place. Rob Fernandez (South Florida) and Saiem Gilani (Florida State) rounded out the top four.

Full results and stats can be found at:
http://results.scobo.net/Default2.aspx?org=utcquizbowl

All-Star trophies went to the top six scorers in each division (excluding open players), and the top ten scorers (including open players) also took home books as prizes. Adam of Georgia Tech B won the John Drennen Wiley Rollins Award for Outstanding Achievement in Buzzer Aggression (most negs), while Carey Cantrell of Tennessee A was Rookie of the Year.

COTKU would not have been possible without the University of Minnesota, who provided questions for both COTKU itself and the special literature singles event. Thanks to Andrew Hart, Rob Carson, and Gautam Kandlikar for all their time and affort.

Special thanks go to Ruth Jackson for yeoperson service, pulling double duty as statskeeper and sometime moderator, and also to Ruth’s minions from Ringgold High for scorekeeping and logistics help. Thanks also to our other officials: Scotti Whitmire, Emily Neal, Adam Chin, Dren Rollins, Scott Sherman, Michael Kearney, Chris Hendry, Mark Dawson, Joseph Dion, Gary Hardin, Wade Carpenter, and Jacob Vannucci.
-- Charlie Steinhice
Coach, UTC Academic Trivia Association
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
utcquizbowl [at] gmail [dot] com

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-- Gen. John Sedgwick, 1864 (technically not his very last words, but close enough)

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Re: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Your Genial Quizmaster » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:47 am

I appreciate the comments, both pro and con, on COTKU. I wanted to briefly address a couple of Chris' points with information he may not have known.
uga_chris wrote:First, a few minor issues: if you're given powers in the questions, use them. Yes, some high school tournaments in the Southeast don't like powers and/or negs- this isn't high school anymore. When editors and writers take the time to add powers to a set in use all across the nation, it doesn't take a significant amount of effort on scorekeepers' parts to do so. I also heard that finals packets were randomly sprinkled throughout the tournament- not sure whose fault this is, but it would be nice to be given warning if a packet is going to be significantly more difficult.
I'm getting old and forgetful. I should have remembered from reading the original Minnesota Open post that there would be powers. Since we didn't get the questions till the wee hours of the morning, we sent them to Kinko's -- er, FedEx Office -- sight unseen. So I didn't even notice the power marks till we had already dispatched teams and readers to their rooms. Faced with two options -- running around and explaining powers to the teams that weren't familiar with them, or sticking with the 10-point tossup -- I made the snap decision to go with the latter. By the third round, when I realized the questions were tough for Division I and extremely tough for Division II, I regretted that decision. As for the playoff packets, the editors' packets weren't specifically labeled as such, but after we played one I figured out they must have been. So there was one (probable) playoff round used in the round robin.
uga_chris wrote:
AndyShootsAndyScores wrote:Given that there 13 rounds to play, I think UTC did a nice job of attempting to finish this tournament as quickly as possible.
I'm happy to hear that rounds in DII went well. DI was a slightly different story. The tournament kept moving, but at a pace slightly faster than matatus on rural Kenyan highways. I like chatting with the other team and the moderator as much as anyone- quizbowl has a very collegial atmosphere and we could all bond at this tournament over the difficulty of the questions. But some rounds took 50+ minutes because the moderator couldn't resist stopping before, during, and after every question to insert his/her opinion while engaging in needless banter. If you can't find better moderators, don't accept so many teams; eliminate DII and go to DI entirely for hard tournaments.
Thanks to two late scratches in Division II, the schedule was imbalanced between the two divisions in the number of rounds. To complete a full round robin took 13 rounds in Division II, vs. 11 in Division I. After the lunch break I reshuffled readers so the fastest ones would be reading in Division II, which explains both Andy's and Chris' comments about the pace. Round 12 in Division II finished at the same time as Round 11 in Division I. For most of the Division I schools, that was moot -- they either had a Div. II team traveling with them, and/or were staying for Big Lots on Sunday. For Georgia and Florida State, I apologize for the slowness in Division I. I would also apologize to two other Div. I teams that it would have affected... except that they bailed in mid-tournament, one without telling us. Speaking of which...
uga_chris wrote:Furthermore, don't waste time in the pre-tournament meeting with "Charlie's Rules" or with extremely drawn-out awards ceremonies at the end. If you have to do an awards ceremony, do it quickly- it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes. I like a shiny trophy as much as the next person- they're good for recruiting and showing to sponsors- but I don't mind if I can just pick it up after play finishes. I would mind even less if I got an online gift certificate in an email later on instead if it allowed me to get back 30 minutes earlier. I understand that there was some stalling done to allow for final stats to be calculated, but this was half an hour after DII ended and after the lit tournament, so stats ought to have been done.

This was my first time at a UTC tournament and I honestly have to say the experience was not positive. I really don't think it would be too hard to improve: reduce the size of the tournament to maximize efficiency for the size of the resources you have. Some teams like the current laid-back style, but I'd really like to either play quizbowl or get home earlier from a tournament. Sitting around waiting when we didn't have to just doesn't cut it for me.
I agree with much of what you said. About the only clear exception is that Charlie's Three Rules of Competition will stay. They are a UTC tradition and a personal indulgence, and the recitation takes less than a minute. The real delay in starting almost every tournament is waiting for stragglers and/or making schedule changes.

The reason for the stats delay was the number of forfeits to account for. Besides the two teams in Div. I, we had three more bail in Division II, and another team that went missing for two rounds and then returned. Only two of those six teams actually notified us, making the forfeits hard to track. When Ruth finished entering the scoresheets, we ran the results and found mismatches in the number of games. Ruth and one of her minions had to go back through, round by round, to figure out what was missing -- and Murphy's Law decreed that it naturally affected trophy positions in both divisions.

As for the other delays, I get mixed comments about the laid-back atmosphere, and in the past year or two, the comments have leaned more towards tightening the schedule up and squeezing more rounds in. We're reconsidering how we handle awards, etc. I like your idea of individual awards that can be sent online later. Team trophies are another matter; I'm open to suggestion on those as well.

UTC is in full rebuilding mode this year. Almost the entire team has graduated, and our new recruits aren't yet ready to fill that breach, plus several veteran readers have moved out of the area. We went from having 18 current or former UTC players officiating at our high school tournament in March, to just four at COTKU -- one of whom had surgery the day before the tournament, and was unable to finish the day. We may have to consider limiting Moon Pie to a smaller field size if we haven't gotten a new reader corps up to speed by then. Fortunately, we have several months to figure that out. Feel free to pass along any other thoughts on the subject to utcquizbowl [at] gmail [dot] com.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by vandyhawk » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:21 am

Did Wofford really get -90 in one round? That's kind of sad to do something that stupid and then leave.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ChopinManiac » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:24 am

I just want to say that I really enjoyed this tournament. Yes, the set was ridiculously hard, but the questions were also ridiculously well-written and edited (props to Minnesota). Yes, it took a while to get through a full round robin and a singles tournament, and yes, UTC might have been able to run the tournament a bit quicker. But... I haven't felt as proud of every single TU I answered since the Gaddis tournament at the HSNCT, and I also believe that part of the reason the rounds went as long as they did is because of the vast differences in knowledge among the teams in DI. During most of the rounds, one team with at least a rudimentary level of knowledge regarding the canon for this difficulty level was playing another team that had little if any chance of answering a single TU during the round. This, in turn, led to most of the questions being read in their entirety, which happens to add a decent amount of time to a round when it seemed as though a ten-line TU was the norm. Also, I would just like to say that while I enjoy serious quizbowl, and I also appreciate a tournament that is run methodically and efficiently, I did enjoy the laid-back atmosphere that permeated throughout this tourney. When I put a day aside for quizbowl, I put the entire day aside, and for me, spending that extra "downtime" getting to know the other teams and players is one of things I enjoy most about UTC tourneys.

Bottom line, I had a good time. Thanks again, Charlie, for running the Lit singles on such short notice, and I agree that after the first round had been completed, powers should not have been added in retroactively.

I look forward to the next tournament you'll be hosting. UGA will most definitely make an effort to attend.

P.S. Eric, it was a joy playing you guys as well. It's always nice to meet other teams who still view quizbowl as an enjoyable activity, and not a self-aggrandizing trial by fire.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by cchiego » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:27 am

Thanks, Charlie, for the additional information. I understand that quizbowl delays and miscues happen, but we'd like to know what's going on when they occur. Just let us know what's going on and we'll probably understand and offer to help; I gladly would've agreed to read in a slow room to help out during our Wofford-forfeit round if you had asked. I'm sending you an email with more specific criticisms of a few other things as well, but...
Your Genial Quizmaster wrote:UTC is in full rebuilding mode this year. Almost the entire team has graduated, and our new recruits aren't yet ready to fill that breach, plus several veteran readers have moved out of the area. We went from having 18 current or former UTC players officiating at our high school tournament in March, to just four at COTKU -- one of whom had surgery the day before the tournament, and was unable to finish the day.
...should not be an excuse. If you don't have the resources to host, either don't host or pay teams to bring enough competent moderators to run a tournament. Again, had we known that your need for workers was so great, we probably could've roped a few more people into coming to help out. The problem too wasn't that the moderators weren't trained- they knew quizbowl well enough. They just talked too much and inserted dozens of needless editorial comments throughout the matches, including many hackneyed complaints about how hard the questions were.
ChopinManiac wrote:, I did enjoy the laid-back atmosphere that permeated throughout this tourney. When I put a day aside for quizbowl, I put the entire day aside, and for me, spending that extra "downtime" getting to know the other teams and players is one of things I enjoy most about UTC tourneys.
Opinions differ on the merits of laid-back quizbowl; evidently, my esteemed teammate enjoys these daylong events and the laid-back style in which the matches were conducted. That's all well and good, but hosts have an obligation to be as efficient as possible on their end so that teams can decide whether or not they want to engage in hanging-out and other laid-back activities on their own time. Had we been able to finish around 8 PM or so, we probably could have joined the great exodus to the legendary Provino's and had plenty of time for laid-back socializing then if we so chose.
AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)
That's a good thing; I wish something like that had happened to me as a freshman. When you realize a set is "kicking your ass," you have two legitimate choices:
1. (Preferred)- Realize how little you actually know, resolve to learn more, and take careful notes on all the interesting clues and answers you hear about. You'll be surprised at how much you retain. This is by far the most effective way to improve.
2. (Not preferred, but more common and still valid)- Sit quietly, laugh a little bit at the difficulty level, and finish out the trial by fire like a trooper.

Unfortunately, at this tournament we saw numerous examples of the one thing you should NEVER do when confronted by such a set:
Your Genial Quizmaster wrote:Besides the two teams in Div. I, we had three more bail in Division II, and another team that went missing for two rounds and then returned. Only two of those six teams actually notified us
Look, I know these questions were insanely difficult for relatively new/inexperienced programs, especially compared to what UTC's usually offered for COTKU. But the Southeast will never improve as a region unless its younger players make a commitment to learning more of the upper reaches of the canon and motivating their teammates to do the same. The teams that left are unfortunate examples of the wrong attitude to have when playing quizbowl. Major props to the DII teams that stuck it out and best of luck in the future to the up-and-coming players who saw this tournament not as a disappointment, but as an opportunity for improvement.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by wd4gdz » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:26 am

I am kinda confused on how these final standings appear to have changed since the awards ceremony. A couple feet from me right now is a 2nd place team trophy.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Scipio » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:09 am

I think what happened is that Open teams were not eligible for trophies; South Florida therefore won outright, with FSU second and UGA third.

EDIT: Some four hours later I have come to the realization that what you meant was "UGA was listed as second on this fine board and that FSU was not, in contrast to my trophy which suggests otherwise". My mistake; that is indeed an error, as the team standings in the posted link shows that FSU was second. Sorry about that.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:23 pm

What is the point of an open tournament if open teams aren't officially eligible to place?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ericblair » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:59 pm

uga_chris wrote:
AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)
That's a good thing; I wish something like that had happened to me as a freshman. When you realize a set is "kicking your ass," you have two legitimate choices:
1. (Preferred)- Realize how little you actually know, resolve to learn more, and take careful notes on all the interesting clues and answers you hear about. You'll be surprised at how much you retain. This is by far the most effective way to improve.
2. (Not preferred, but more common and still valid)- Sit quietly, laugh a little bit at the difficulty level, and finish out the trial by fire like a trooper.
Maybe this set didn't kick my ass as much as it did the Div II teams, but I would still definitely say it kicked my ass. And your first suggestion, Chris, I've already taken on. While I knew a lot of the (non-science/math) tossups by the end of the question, there was definitely a lack of knowledge on my part that prevented me from getting tossups early on. Instead of just going to these tournament in the future and doing your "legitimate choice" number two, I've decided to take more notes and write my own questions to familiarize myself with more in-depth information. Hopefully within the near future that will make me a far more competitive player in not only the Southeast but the nation. This tournament wasn't at all what I expected, but in the long run I feel it's going to be one of the most helpful in my time as a quizbowl player.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Ethnic history of the Vilnius region » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:19 pm

There is a lot of talk in this thread about quizbowl either being a laid back affair or a "self-aggrandizing trial by fire." I see that as an incorrect choice. Quizbowl can be a laid back, friendly competition and still be a great, competitive learning experience. I really wish more southern teams or players would have gone to the Chicago Open over the summer. Sure, you had the very best players in the game doing what they do, but you also had lots of younger players (by younger I mean people who were still in high school or had just graduated) who weren't necessarily putting up huge numbers but who were learning a ton and enjoying themselves thoroughly. It had as collegial an atmosphere as any tournament I have been to. It's because the teams who went there were motivated as much about learning as they were about winning.

Indeed, the teams that leave tournaments early are the ones who have a "winning is the only thing that matters" attitude and they leave as soon as they hear about books they haven't read, science they don't know, and historical figures they've never heard of. Like Chris said, attitude determines everything about what you get out of the game. If anyone who leaves tournaments early is reading, next time go to a tournament with the attitude that you want to learn and that winning and getting big individual PPGs isn't the most important thing. You'll get so much out of quizbowl if you do that. And for Charlie's sake and everyone else's, stay for the whole tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by gtechnerd » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:00 pm

uga_chris wrote:
AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)
That's a good thing; I wish something like that had happened to me as a freshman. When you realize a set is "kicking your ass," you have two legitimate choices:
1. (Preferred)- Realize how little you actually know, resolve to learn more, and take careful notes on all the interesting clues and answers you hear about. You'll be surprised at how much you retain. This is by far the most effective way to improve.
2. (Not preferred, but more common and still valid)- Sit quietly, laugh a little bit at the difficulty level, and finish out the trial by fire like a trooper.
Honestly, I have to respect the choice that the teams made to leave the tournament. Quizbowl is about having fun, and when you are sitting through round after round bored to tears then their is no reason to waste your time. I admit it is rude to the teams that are doing better, but I think an apology should be made to the teams that left for such an impossible tournament. Very few teams got better than a 10pt bonus conversion, and the majority of the matches saw more than half of the toss ups go dead. No one wants to play when they don't even see a connection to any reasonable cannon.
Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman. I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Auroni » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:07 pm

gtechnerd wrote:
uga_chris wrote:
AdamL wrote:This set kicked our asses. (speaking for my team)
That's a good thing; I wish something like that had happened to me as a freshman. When you realize a set is "kicking your ass," you have two legitimate choices:
1. (Preferred)- Realize how little you actually know, resolve to learn more, and take careful notes on all the interesting clues and answers you hear about. You'll be surprised at how much you retain. This is by far the most effective way to improve.
2. (Not preferred, but more common and still valid)- Sit quietly, laugh a little bit at the difficulty level, and finish out the trial by fire like a trooper.
Honestly, I have to respect the choice that the teams made to leave the tournament. Quizbowl is about having fun, and when you are sitting through round after round bored to tears then their is no reason to waste your time. I admit it is rude to the teams that are doing better, but I think an apology should be made to the teams that left for such an impossible tournament. Very few teams got better than a 10pt bonus conversion, and the majority of the matches saw more than half of the toss ups go dead. No one wants to play when they don't even see a connection to any reasonable cannon.
Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman. I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.

no, dude. you still have no right to leave a tournament as it is progressing because it screws the scheduling up and affords more bye-games and in general causes explosive disarray from a preexisting hectic schedule. I attended the original site and JUST BECAUSE CARLETON LEFT, editors had to cobble together another packet. You can tune out and entertain yourselves if a set is kicking your ass, but have some respect and don't screw over other people because of your inability to enjoy an excellent set.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Ethnic history of the Vilnius region » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:24 pm

gtechnerd wrote: Honestly, I have to respect the choice that the teams made to leave the tournament. Quizbowl is about having fun, and when you are sitting through round after round bored to tears then their is no reason to waste your time. I admit it is rude to the teams that are doing better, but I think an apology should be made to the teams that left for such an impossible tournament.
No, barring certain circumstances, it is never good to leave tournaments early, and teams that do so should have to pay a deposit at the next tournament they go to in order to ensure that they cease screwing future competitors and TDs.
gtechnerd wrote: Very few teams got better than a 10pt bonus conversion, and the majority of the matches saw more than half of the toss ups go dead. No one wants to play when they don't even see a connection to any reasonable cannon.
I'll admit, the MO appears much harder than it was originally billed as. Still, the questions asked are certainly in the canon for the most part. It's the stuff you need to know to compete at the higher levels. If the majority of the south has the attitude of only wanting to compete at lower levels, that's unfortunate.
gtechnerd wrote:Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman.
So far in this semester alone, there have been 2 very accessible tournaments. EFT was about as accessible as you can get. FEUERBACH, for its faults, was a very accessible tournament as well, and yet at our mirror, we only had 2 outside teams come. Hey, if you want accessible questions, go to tournaments at which accessible questions are being asked. Anyway, ACF Fall is coming up. Teams should go to Knoxville and Gainesville and Richmond and play in it and stuff. It's accessible.

As for quizbowl being a grad student exercise, well, whatever. I thought that myth had run its course, but clearly it hasn't. Anyway, in the tournaments I've been to this year, I've seen undergrads like Nick Kusselreath, George Stevens, Evan Adams, and Ted Gioa play some amazingly good quizbowl. I've seen guys who are still in high school like Dan Puma and Daichi Ueda compete more than favorably against anyone they go up against. And I've seen guys from my team at USC like Robert Harden and Joey Montoya, guys who didn't play for elite high school teams or know terribly much when they started playing, work hard and become players I'd like on my team any day. And I'm sure Dorman high school could win tournaments throughout the south with their current team. Sure, grad school students and alums play quizbowl, that they're not necessarily the dominant force.
gtechnerd wrote: I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.
In fact, college quizbowl is doing pretty good for itself. As for you being a mediocre player, you can get better. Read lots of packets and write good questions. And, as ACF's unofficial motto puts it, Read a Book. The only thing keeping you from getting good is you.
Last edited by Ethnic history of the Vilnius region on Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Gautam » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:25 pm

gtechnerd wrote: Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman. I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.
Man, what? This is an isolated event of the difficulty level exceeding the originally advertised level. I think it is safe to say that most novice events like ACF Fall and EFT hit the target difficulty spot on, and are very accessible to newer players who are not familiar with any canon. And uh, your dire predictions about quizbowl shrinking seem to be in stark contrast with reality: number of programs sending teams to circuit tournaments is increasing, number of people playing quiz bowl is increasing, number of teams submitting (quality) packets to ACF Fall is increasing, etc.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:32 pm

gtechnerd wrote:Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman. I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.
As someone who a) really enjoyed this tournament and b) thought it was more difficult than expected, I would like to contest the idea that this tournament is any part of a "trend" in quizbowl. In fact, the trend has been going in quite the opposite direction, as tournaments that are intended to smooth the transition to collegiate quizbowl are expanded. This semester, for example, you could have played EFT and you will be able to play ACF Fall, both events intended to ease that transition. Later on, Penn Bowl and ACF Winter will ratchet up the difficulty slightly; they are intended to be emblematic of the elusive "regular difficulty" event. ACF Regionals will strive for the same, on a still-higher level. And so on, up through ACF Nationals and ICT and really crazy tournaments like the planned ROBOT and whatever happens at Chicago Open next summer. The point is that there is a tournament for everyone this year, and your talk of quizbowl shrinking away is factually incorrect; the circuit has been actively expanding for the last 3 or 4 years precisely due to the efforts of many individuals to create many tournaments that anyone can play in. So whatever you thought of MO, don't hastily generalize it to all of quizbowl.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ericblair » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:05 pm

gtechnerd wrote:I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.
Work harder to develop yourself on the current canon. You can't always expect the same material to keep coming up at tournaments. That would make tournaments boring. Who wants to hear the same questions in different wording over and over again? Quizbowl (like anything else that develops with time) should progress in regards to material placed in questions, game style, etc. It is YOUR responsibilty to predict to the best of your ability where that progression is going and try to improve in that way as much as possible before the next tournament. I think I've been in the same boat as you. Sure, I was a pretty good player some time ago on sets of lower difficulty that consisted of rehashed material that I had heard for years upon years. But that is no test of knowledge really. The trend of quizbowl is going in a positive direction that rewards those who work to improve their knowledge base in this game. This tournament kicked my ass as well, but it hasn't turned me away from quizbowl. Nor did it turn away my teammate, who got a mere two tossups the whole day. He and I are eager to participate in future tournaments of this difficulty, considering we have the $$$ (which is actually the only thing that turns me off from going to tournaments :sad: )
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:27 pm

gtechnerd wrote:Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman. I anticipate that, as a result, quizbowl at the college level is going to shrink away rather than expand to encompass more teams and players, but that's just the thought of a mediocre player who is finding himself increasingly becoming a bad/useless player on the current cannon.
This idea that "only grad students are any good on tough questions" may have been true ten years ago, but just isn't anymore. At the MIT site, there were (as far as I know) a grand total of two grad students on 17 teams, and one of them (me) wasn't even his team's best player. Granted, most of the teams had ppbs of less than ten, but most everyone was enjoying themselves and taking the difficulty in stride- it helped that even the questions that people didn't get were consistently interesting and well-written. (I personally thought this was arguably the best-written tournament I've ever attended, regardless of difficulty. And it was edited entirely by undergrads.)

Look, I understand that the Minnesota Open questions were too tough for the COTKU field, and I'm sympathetic with people's frustration, especially when they didn't know it was going to be that difficult. But a) it's always poor sportsmanship to give up and leave early, especially without informing the other teams, and b) there are many many more accessible tournaments (for example, the upcoming ACF Fall) that will afford you all to play on a difficulty level you're more comfortable with.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:48 pm

This discussion of teams leaving early has gotten me wondering about one thing; before I begin, let me say I'm not defending the idea of teams leaving early, but I am truly curious about this. jpn wrote above, in a statement with which I think everyone vilifying the early leavers would agree, that it's better for a team to sit there and "entertain themselves" if the set is too hard, allowing their opponent to pound them while learning clues to get better. But this is what I wonder: if they're just sitting there spacing out, how different is that for the good team from just having someone read them the pack with no opponent, playing against each other? It's no different from what teams often do when they have a legitimate bye.

Again, I'm not saying teams should leave tournaments early for no good reason, but it's usually not that much fun for really good teams to pound on baby seals, anyway.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:01 pm

Theory Of The Leisure Flask wrote:This old idea that "only grad students are any good on tough questions!!" may have been true ten years ago, but just isn't anymore. At the MIT site, there were (as far as I know) a grand total of two grad students on 17 teams, and one of them (me) wasn't even his team's best player. Granted, most of the teams had ppbs of less than ten, but most everyone was enjoying themselves and taking the difficulty in stride- it helped that even the questions that people didn't get were consistently interesting and well-written. (I personally thought this was arguably the best-written tournament I've ever attended, regardless of difficulty. And it was edited entirely by undergrads.)
There were a couple more than that; a better indicator is that most of the top 10 scorers were not grad students, and in fact many were freshmen (granted, solid freshmen). But the bigger point is that at the MIT site, there wasn't any atmosphere of self-defeat or question-hating. The problem that a lot of new players have, especially ones that were good on their local circuit in high school, is that they expect to be able to come in and score 50 points per game against a good field, and to know the answer to every single tossup by the end (this is something that was impossible for my team at this tournament). If your enjoyment or self-worth is tied into winning every game or knowing every answer, you're playing this game for all of the wrong reasons.
Theory Of The Leisure Flask wrote:Look, I understand that the Minnesota Open questions were too tough for the COTKU field, and I'm sympathetic with people's frustration, especially when they didn't know it was going to be that difficult. But a) it's always poor sportsmanship to give up and leave early, especially without informing the other teams, and b) there are many more accessible tournaments (for example, the upcoming ACF Fall) that will afford you all to play on a difficulty level you're more comfortable with.
Seriously, I hate to be too terribly inflammatory about this whole thing, but past a certain point there's only so much that we can do to make quizbowl accessible to all. Jerry already pointed out that there are several tournaments full of accessible answers and a full gradation of difficulty. And frankly you're not going to last long in quizbowl if getting beaten by better teams or a hard question set completely demoralizes you and makes you leave, especially if you're just starting out or have never seen pyramidal questions before. People who last either a. Simply enjoy the learning aspect of the game, and/or b. Get better. This isn't No Child Left Behind, for crying out loud, its quizbowl; while we don't want to scare away newcomers (which every single statistical measure says that we aren't), we're not going to lower the barrier to the point where anyone can walk in and score highly on a high-level tournament.

And in response to Chris B.'s post above, the team that's losing shouldn't necessarily be forced to "entertain themselves" - listening to the other team parsing out answers and hearing clues are just as beneficial, even if you zone out every category but the ones you have an interest in. I know that I picked up several clues from listening to the other teams' deliberations during a bonus part, and remembering where they buzzed on a tossup.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Matt Weiner » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:08 pm

gtechnerd wrote:Honestly, I have to respect the choice that the teams made to leave the tournament. Quizbowl is about having fun, and when you are sitting through round after round bored to tears then their is no reason to waste your time.
Man, I guess we have to lead more Nuremberg rallies where people yell "getting stomped is better than not playing" and throw food at each other. Clearly the message isn't getting across. Perhaps we should waste three hours on it per tournament instead of fifteen minutes.
Overall, this tournament represented an unfortunate trend in quizbowl of being less accessible to new teams, and simply an exercise for grad students with years of experience and the occasional brilliant freshman.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by Dalton » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:03 pm

gtechnerd wrote: Honestly, I have to respect the choice that the teams made to leave the tournament. Quizbowl is about having fun, and when you are sitting through round after round bored to tears then their is no reason to waste your time.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by vandyhawk » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:06 am

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that Taylor's thoughts may not be uncommon among people who went to COTKU. People have correctly pointed out that certain statements he made are false, as he and several people from GT went to EFT and did quite well. There is also ACF Fall coming up. However, it's just a fact that many teams who show up to things at UTC have very different philosophies about quizbowl than many teams from other regions. Had MO stayed at its announced difficulty level, I think it would have been a tough, but good experience for all those teams, but the final difficulty was certainly far above the level of the UTC field. I don't say this as any negative to the Minn people, but to comment about the need to make sure that these teams don't use this as another ACF = impossible type of experience. ACF Fall was well attended by many such teams at Shorter last year, and the various EFT sites this year had many such teams as well. With any luck, the ACF Fall sites will be well attended again this year, and people will realize that, unlike Taylor asserted, MO doesn't represent a trend (well, quick diversion - it kind of does in a sense, but more like a trend for there to be more really hard tournaments but also more easy tournaments too...), but was an example of a hard tournament, and there are plenty of transitional, regular, etc. tournaments out there on good questions, written by many of the same people, that can be enjoyed by all.

Also, to repeat my question above - did Wofford really neg 18 times in a game?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: COTKU at UT-Chattanooga 10/18/08

Post by cchiego » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:54 am

vandyhawk wrote:Also, to repeat my question above - did Wofford really neg 18 times in a game?
Yes, we heard from their moderator for that match that they did indeed do so. They did it on purpose the round just before they left.
vandyhawk wrote:I have a feeling that Taylor's thoughts may not be uncommon among people who went to COTKU.
I hope teams that do enjoy good quizbowl in the Southeast can transmit more positive feelings to other teams informally at tournaments to help avoid such negative sentiment. Nobody likes being lectured to/told they're lazy idiots, but I think there certainly is something to be said for encouraging those teams to come to harder tournaments, bring a notebook (I noticed the only teams taking detailed notes were the ones who broke 100 PPG), and learn more. I mean if we have to be laid-back at tournaments, why not spend some of that time with some friendly discussion of how to improve?
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