ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

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ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:42 pm

This is a preliminary announcement for a mirror of T-Party at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin on December 7th, 2008.

Note that this is a Sunday, and that high schools are welcome to attend.

More details will be posted as soon as I have them.

Fees
$100 base fee for first team
$90 for second and subsequent
-$5 per buzzer
-$10 per competent moderator
-$10 per 200 miles traveled (one way)

Field (bolded teams are confirmed)
*Minnesota (2-3)
*Loyola (HS)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:54 pm

Questions? Want to register? Email me at petersogATlawrenceDAHTedu.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:26 pm

An important note here is that T-Party is a packet submission tournament, and while you are not required to submit a packet to attend the mirror, you can earn a discount for doing so. That discount is -$25 for a packet submitted by 11/1/08 and -$15 for a packet submitted by 11/8/08, the same discount you would earn if you were attending the main site. We're not crazy here in Cambridge; we know we'll need the packets.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:01 pm

Anyone other than Minnesota interested in coming to this?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by OctagonJoe » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:42 pm

I'm going to see what I can do, but Carleton is on winter break for awhile by then.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by alkrav112 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:38 pm

Michigan has made plans to be there.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:25 pm

OK, thanks, Andy. Any idea on how many teams?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by alkrav112 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:13 pm

Not yet, but my guess is 2. I will let you know a week or two before the tournament, when we have an official count.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:37 am

Tentative field update:

Minnesota - 2-3
Michigan - 2

I'd love confirmation/update from:
Chicago
Loyola HS

Have you pulled a team out of your ass?:
Illinois
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by millionwaves » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:11 pm

cornfused wrote:
Have you pulled a team out of your ass?:
Illinois
Maybe, believe it or not. I'll e-mail you once this weekend is over.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:38 pm

millionwaves wrote:
cornfused wrote:
Have you pulled a team out of your ass?:
Illinois
Maybe, believe it or not. I'll e-mail you once this weekend is over.
Excellent. It looks like Chicago is going to the main site, so IL, Loyolax2, Minnesotax2-3, Michiganx2 = 7 or 8 teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 am

Field update with twenty days to go:
Loyola HS 1-2
Minnesota 2-3
Michigan 2
St. Olaf 1
Illinois 0-1
...for a total of 6-9 teams.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by millionwaves » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:14 pm

I guess it seems likely that at least Mike and I will be at this, so you can go ahead and move us to one.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by alkrav112 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:02 pm

And, to balance the above, it seems likely that Michigan will have only one team at this tournament.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:13 pm

Field update with twenty days to go:
Loyola HS 1-2
Minnesota 2-3
Michigan 1
St. Olaf 1
Illinois 1
...for a total of 6-8 teams.
Greg Peterson

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by David Riley » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:39 pm

Greg--we may have to pull out: transportation issues.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Cheynem » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Oh boy, can we have a triple round robin? :grin:
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:11 pm

Ut oh. Yeah, Mike, that's starting to look possible.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:52 pm

FIELD (final, probably):
Minnesota 2, 1 buzzer
Michigan 1
St. Olaf 1
Illinois 1
House

Illinois, Michigan, St. Olaf: I'd like two buzzer systems from you guys. Who wants to bring them?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by millionwaves » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:58 pm

cornfused wrote:FIELD (final, probably):
Minnesota 2, 1 buzzer
Michigan 1
St. Olaf 1
Illinois 1
House

Illinois, Michigan, St. Olaf: I'd like two buzzer systems from you guys. Who wants to bring them?
We will bring both of them.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Cheynem » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:12 pm

So are we indeed doing a double/triple round robin?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:19 pm

We will inevitably produce enough packets for you to do a double. A triple would require seventeen packets (assuming that house team stays, or else fourteen) and considering that we currently have 1.5 freelance packets and 1.5 packets from teams attending the main site, plus five editors packets (counting finals), it seems unlikely that we will have enough packets for a triple. It's possible that fourteen or fifteen packets will happen, but it will involve a lot of bleeding.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:35 pm

millionwaves wrote:
cornfused wrote:FIELD (final, probably):
Minnesota 2, 1 buzzer
Michigan 1
St. Olaf 1
Illinois 1, 2 buzzers
House

Illinois, Michigan, St. Olaf: I'd like two buzzer systems from you guys. Who wants to bring them?
We will bring both of them.
Got it, Tryg, thanks.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:40 pm

Mike and Andy wrote:format questions
Current plan is for a six-team DRR on ten blind packets, then top-three/bottom-three RR on packets 11, 12, and 13, which will be packets written by teams at this site (still assuming that Minnesota, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all submit.) Then we'll have an ACF final if there are 15 packets, an only-if-tied one-game final if there are 14, and possibly something else if there are less than 14.

A triple round robin would take 15 packets, and I'd rather do a DRR plus other stuff. That way, the top teams get an extra game or two against each other instead of another chance to beat up on the house team.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:46 pm

everyday847 wrote:We will inevitably produce enough packets for you to do a double. A triple would require seventeen packets (assuming that house team stays, or else fourteen) and considering that we currently have 1.5 freelance packets and 1.5 packets from teams attending the main site, plus five editors packets (counting finals), it seems unlikely that we will have enough packets for a triple. It's possible that fourteen or fifteen packets will happen, but it will involve a lot of bleeding.
Andy, a triple round robin would need the same amount of packets for 5 teams as it would for 6 teams:
5 bye 12 34
4 bye 13 25
3 bye 15 24
2 bye 14 35
1 bye 23 45
There's no way to do a 5-team RR in 4 rounds.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:44 pm

cornfused wrote:Andy, a triple round robin would need the same amount of packets for 5 teams as it would for 6 teams:
5 bye 12 34
4 bye 13 25
3 bye 15 24
2 bye 14 35
1 bye 23 45
There's no way to do a 5-team RR in 4 rounds.
Crap, and I totally pointed out the same thing earlier in the GSAC thread. I'm totally not losing it!

Okay, so a triple round robin is pretty much impossible, since seventeen packets would require me to toss myself out a window and have Dallas mine tossups from the fragments. We'll still try, dammit!
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by millionwaves » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:52 pm

cornfused wrote:Illinois all submit.
I don't know if it affects your plans, but Illinois at least will not have time to get a packet together for this.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:06 pm

cornfused wrote:
Mike and Andy wrote:format questions
Current plan is for a six-team DRR on ten blind packets, then top-three/bottom-three RR on packets 11, 12, and 13, which will be packets written by teams at this site (still assuming that Minnesota, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all submit.) Then we'll have an ACF final if there are 15 packets, an only-if-tied one-game final if there are 14, and possibly something else if there are less than 14.

A triple round robin would take 15 packets, and I'd rather do a DRR plus other stuff. That way, the top teams get an extra game or two against each other instead of another chance to beat up on the house team.
You know, if you want a magic number of packets, you can always write one.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:43 am

everyday847 wrote:
cornfused wrote:
Mike and Andy wrote:format questions
Current plan is for a six-team DRR on ten blind packets, then top-three/bottom-three RR on packets 11, 12, and 13, which will be packets written by teams at this site (still assuming that Minnesota, Minnesota, Michigan, and Illinois all submit.) Then we'll have an ACF final if there are 15 packets, an only-if-tied one-game final if there are 14, and possibly something else if there are less than 14.

A triple round robin would take 15 packets, and I'd rather do a DRR plus other stuff. That way, the top teams get an extra game or two against each other instead of another chance to beat up on the house team.
You know, if you want a magic number of packets, you can always write one.
I know, Andy, but writing a packet in the week before finals is tough. What makes it really tough, though, is that I'm already trying to get my ACF Winter submission ready. Right now, I'd rather have a packet less than I'd like than try and write two instead of one next week.

Tryg - good, one less packet bye for me to worry about.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:22 am

cornfused wrote:I know, Andy, but writing a packet in the week before finals is tough. What makes it really tough, though, is that I'm already trying to get my ACF Winter submission ready. Right now, I'd rather have a packet less than I'd like than try and write two instead of one next week.
My circumstances are totally dissimilar!

You recommended freelance 5/5s, though, in the main thread. Feel like 5/5?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:57 pm

everyday847 wrote:
cornfused wrote:I know, Andy, but writing a packet in the week before finals is tough. What makes it really tough, though, is that I'm already trying to get my ACF Winter submission ready. Right now, I'd rather have a packet less than I'd like than try and write two instead of one next week.
My circumstances are totally dissimilar!
Well, it's your tourney.
everyday847 wrote:You recommended freelance 5/5s, though, in the main thread. Feel like 5/5?
I'll let you know on Tuesday whether I can do it or not... if I can, you'll have them by Tuesday midnight. Got a surplus of any category you want me to avoid?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:26 am

I would just like to chime in and say that Harvard not asking of any packets from mirror sites is getting off incredibly light, and I think it is a perfectly fair practice to ask for 1 to, say, 3 packets from any potential mirror. While it's obviously too late at this point to require that, perhaps bear it in mind for the next T-Party, and also keep in mind Greg that you have gotten off laughably easy as it is and that it is hardly an exertion to write 6/6 in a week, even with finals, so I would recommend going through with it.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:31 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:I would just like to chime in and say that Harvard not asking of any packets from mirror sites is getting off incredibly light, and I think it is a perfectly fair practice to ask for 1 to, say, 3 packets from any potential mirror. While it's obviously too late at this point to require that, perhaps bear it in mind for the next T-Party, and also keep in mind Greg that you have gotten off laughably easy as it is and that it is hardly an exertion to write 6/6 in a week, even with finals, so I would recommend going through with it.
Gee, thanks, Charlie.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:39 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:I would just like to chime in and say that Harvard not asking of any packets from mirror sites is getting off incredibly light, and I think it is a perfectly fair practice to ask for 1 to, say, 3 packets from any potential mirror. While it's obviously too late at this point to require that, perhaps bear it in mind for the next T-Party, and also keep in mind Greg that you have gotten off laughably easy as it is and that it is hardly an exertion to write 6/6 in a week, even with finals, so I would recommend going through with it.
I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:49 pm

cornfused wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:I would just like to chime in and say that Harvard not asking of any packets from mirror sites is getting off incredibly light, and I think it is a perfectly fair practice to ask for 1 to, say, 3 packets from any potential mirror. While it's obviously too late at this point to require that, perhaps bear it in mind for the next T-Party, and also keep in mind Greg that you have gotten off laughably easy as it is and that it is hardly an exertion to write 6/6 in a week, even with finals, so I would recommend going through with it.
Gee, thanks, Charlie.
He speaks the truth, dude.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by theMoMA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:10 pm

In my experience, not asking packets from mirror sites is mostly done because the school writing/editing the tournament wants to extract the highest possible mirror fee. I don't know why we're calling Greg out here when he has a preexisting arrangement with Harvard that almost certainly requires him to pay more money than he would have if he had written mirror-site packets.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:15 pm

How can you kids have time for drama when we have neither of your packets! </bluster>
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:16 pm

theMoMA wrote:In my experience, not asking packets from mirror sites is mostly done because the school writing/editing the tournament wants to extract the highest possible mirror fee. I don't know why we're calling Greg out here when he has a preexisting arrangement with Harvard that almost certainly requires him to pay more money than he would have if he had written mirror-site packets.
I understand that Greg's not expected to write based on that pre-existing arrangement. At the same time, it shouldn't be too much trouble to write something. If he's not going to write anything, he should just come out and say it.

Also, you can't bitch at me about a packet, Andy. Nice try.

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:22 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:If he's not going to write anything, he should just come out and say it.
The reason I haven't said anything concrete is that I have a giant term paper due this Tuesday at noon. After that's done, I'll be able to write almost for sure. If something else comes up, though, it's a very busy week for me (week before finals, three choir concerts, etc.) and I want to be flexible. As last time that I said I'd write a packet and didn't, Charlie was very quick to call me on it, I don't want to have to welch in a worst-case scenario.

I'm pretty damn sure that I'll be able to get 6/6 to a half-packet written by Wednesday night. But "pretty damn sure" is the best I can say, OK?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:25 pm

On a less-grumpy note, here's a copy of the tournament email:

Lawrence University will be running the first-annual Fall Tournament (LUFT) on Sunday, December 7th.

Who:
St. Olaf
Illinois + 2 buzzers
Minnesota x2 + 1 buzzer
Michigan

Where: Lawrence University's Main Hall - the one with the big dome on top. It's in the middle of our campus at approximately 400 E College Ave., Appleton, WI 54911. Parking is open at any Lawrence parking lot - your best bet would be the one next to the chapel (it's big and chapelly, you won't miss it.)

When: Registration will be from 8:00 AM to 8:45 AM. I plan to start round 1 at 9 AM. We'll break after five rounds for lunch, then play some more.

What I need from you:
a) Confirmation that you are, in fact, coming. Just reply to this post or send me an email.
b) A contact phone number for each team (or preferably, each car.)
c... and this is weird) The license plate # for every car that you'll be bringing to Lawrence. If I don't get your license plate #s, I don't know where you'll be allowed to park - but if I do get them, you'll be able to park in any Lawrence parking lot.


Questions? Send me an email at petersogATlawrenceDAHTedu or call me at eightfourseven-twofivefour-fivefourseveneight.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:27 pm

dtaylor4 wrote:
theMoMA wrote:In my experience, not asking packets from mirror sites is mostly done because the school writing/editing the tournament wants to extract the highest possible mirror fee. I don't know why we're calling Greg out here when he has a preexisting arrangement with Harvard that almost certainly requires him to pay more money than he would have if he had written mirror-site packets.
I understand that Greg's not expected to write based on that pre-existing arrangement. At the same time, it shouldn't be too much trouble to write something. If he's not going to write anything, he should just come out and say it.

Also, you can't bitch at me about a packet, Andy. Nice try.
But I can bitch at Minnesota! (or at least that rob carson fella who has repeatedly promised two packets)
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Cheynem » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:41 pm

Hey, I sent you my dubious freelance 5/5! :neutral:
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:49 pm

Hence "at least that rob carson fella." Or whoever is compiling and emailing the packets, because noted members of the Rob Carson team Gautam and Bernadette assert that they're done with their bits.

Edit: NEVER MIND since I have learned actual information. I recently experienced computer death (before HFT, in fact) and understand totally.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by theMoMA » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:14 pm

I'm not sure who has told you that Minnesota is writing two packets. That was the initial plan, but the second team didn't really coalesce until very recently and it doesn't look like we're going to get anything together. Rob's team is still planning to write, I think.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:17 pm

Actually the bulk of my comment was directed at Harvard to say that next time around that would be a very wise thing for them to since they seemed to be having some problems getting packets.
Also, I will volunteer up 6/6 as well in anything but science. Just tell me what categories are desired.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:21 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:Actually the bulk of my comment was directed at Harvard to say that next time around that would be a very wise thing for them to since they seemed to be having some problems getting packets.
Also, I will volunteer up 6/6 as well in anything but science. Just tell me what categories are desired.
Your criticism is accurate; I had too much faith in packet submission. (I also forgot that only we and Princeton have our finals after break, leaving this weekend bad for lots of northeast teams--which would have led to more packets.

I'd ask Ted if I were you; he's most familiar with our non-science needs at this point.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:31 am

OK, Michigan will no longer be sending a team.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by cornfused » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:54 am

I'm now considering a quad round robin... anyone else have a good idea for a four-non-house-team tournament?
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Cheynem » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:43 am

Awesome. We could all just sit in one room and all play together.
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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: T-Party Mirror at Lawrence - 12/7/08

Post by Matt Weiner » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:45 am

Logically, you should be able to play a 12-game quadruple RR on the non-submitted packets, then use up to two packets written by teams not involved in the final to play a final. There should even be an additional blind packet to play off ties, if I'm reading the intentions of Harvard correctly.
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