Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Old college threads.
Locked
User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Post by BuzzerZen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:07 pm

12-pt Times New Roman, 1-inch margins: 100 characters per line
6 lines = 600 characters
8 lines = 800 characters
10 lines = 1000 characters

10-pt Times New Roman, 1-inch margins: 115 characters per line
6 lines = 700 characters
8 lines = 925 characters
10 lines = 1150 characters

Thank you.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:34 pm

Here's another thing I did today: I made a Google Custom Search that covers the packet archives of repute, namely Stanford, quizbowlpackets, and collegiate.quizbowlpackets. Enjoy having a marginally easier way to google for questions.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
theMoMA
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:00 am

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by theMoMA » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:38 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:Here's another thing I did today: I made a Google Custom Search that covers the packet archives of repute, namely Stanford, quizbowlpackets, and collegiate.quizbowlpackets. Enjoy having a marginally easier way to google for questions.
Hey, that's cool. Could you add Carlo's ACFDB or Arnav's dealie (however you spell it).
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:01 pm

theMoMA wrote:
BuzzerZen wrote:Here's another thing I did today: I made a Google Custom Search that covers the packet archives of repute, namely Stanford, quizbowlpackets, and collegiate.quizbowlpackets. Enjoy having a marginally easier way to google for questions.
Hey, that's cool. Could you add Carlo's ACFDB or Arnav's dealie (however you spell it).
Google doesn't seem to have an index for either site right now, sadly.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:52 pm

Latest in the "Evan likes doing silly things with computers" files: I have successfully leveraged existing tools to be able to transform plain-text ACF-formatted quiz bowl questions into RTFs. Not entirely existing tools, I guess. I slightly modified this thing called pandoc. Anyway, the point is, if anyone else happens to be interested in doing this, which doing it will probably require moderate-to-extensive software-compilation yak-shaving, let me know.

Edit: the point being that I can write my questions in vim now and nobody will be the wiser.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:39 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:Latest in the "Evan likes doing silly things with computers" files: I have successfully leveraged existing tools to be able to transform plain-text ACF-formatted quiz bowl questions into RTFs. Not entirely existing tools, I guess. I slightly modified this thing called pandoc. Anyway, the point is, if anyone else happens to be interested in doing this, which doing it will probably require moderate-to-extensive software-compilation yak-shaving, let me know.

Edit: the point being that I can write my questions in vim now and nobody will be the wiser.
I pretty much want this.
Andrew Watkins

User avatar
grapesmoker
Sin
Posts: 6368
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:23 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by grapesmoker » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:20 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:Latest in the "Evan likes doing silly things with computers" files: I have successfully leveraged existing tools to be able to transform plain-text ACF-formatted quiz bowl questions into RTFs. Not entirely existing tools, I guess. I slightly modified this thing called pandoc. Anyway, the point is, if anyone else happens to be interested in doing this, which doing it will probably require moderate-to-extensive software-compilation yak-shaving, let me know.

Edit: the point being that I can write my questions in vim now and nobody will be the wiser.
If there's anything I like, it's shaving yaks. Send me info on how you do this, please.
Jerry Vinokurov
ex-LJHS, ex-Berkeley, ex-Brown, sorta-ex-CMU
code ape, loud voice, general nuissance

User avatar
cornfused
Auron
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Des Moines, IA

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by cornfused » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:12 pm

Do you have a Sega Game Gear, Jerry?
Greg Peterson

Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07

"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne

User avatar
cvdwightw
Auron
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Southern CA
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by cvdwightw » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:32 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:12-pt Times New Roman, 1-inch margins: 100 characters per line
6 lines = 600 characters
8 lines = 800 characters
10 lines = 1000 characters

10-pt Times New Roman, 1-inch margins: 115 characters per line
6 lines = 700 characters
8 lines = 925 characters
10 lines = 1150 characters

Thank you.
Independent verification tells me this is wrong. Six lines of "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" in size 10 TNR with 1-inch margins yields 384 characters; eight lines is 512, ten lines is 640. Six lines of "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" in size 12 TNR with same margins yields 324 characters; eight lines is 432, ten lines is 540.

However, in actual quizbowl questions, it looks like you're just overshooting the size 12 TNR and just undershooting the size 10 TNR. Remember since TNR is not a fixed-width font like Courier New is, the width of each letter and the space is different. So these are only averages and guidelines.
Dwight Wynne
socalquizbowl.org
UC Irvine 2008-2013; UCLA 2004-2007; Capistrano Valley High School 2000-2003

"It's a competition, but it's not a sport. On a scale, if football is a 10, then rowing would be a two. One would be Quiz Bowl." --Matt Birk on rowing, SI On Campus, 10/21/03

"If you were my teammate, I would have tossed your ass out the door so fast you'd be emitting Cerenkov radiation, but I'm not classy like Dwight." --Jerry

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:38 pm

cvdwightw wrote:Independent verification tells me this is wrong. Six lines of "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" in size 10 TNR with 1-inch margins yields 384 characters; eight lines is 512, ten lines is 640. Six lines of "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" in size 12 TNR with same margins yields 324 characters; eight lines is 432, ten lines is 540.

However, in actual quizbowl questions, it looks like you're just overshooting the size 12 TNR and just undershooting the size 10 TNR. Remember since TNR is not a fixed-width font like Courier New is, the width of each letter and the space is different. So these are only averages and guidelines.
My metrics were derived from using a sentence from an actual quiz bowl question with spaces and lowercase characters and everything. Six lines of an uppercase letter with no spaces is clearly going to contain fewer characters than six lines of words. In any event, this is why "lines of type in a proportionally spaced font" is a silly metric, and why I wanted a rough estimate of character-count equivalents. If someone wants to go through ACF packets and do some rigorous statistical analysis on tossup length, that'd clearly be better.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

cdcarter
Yuna
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by cdcarter » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:45 pm

BuzzerZen wrote: My metrics were derived from using a sentence from an actual quiz bowl question with spaces and lowercase characters and everything. Six lines of an uppercase letter with no spaces is clearly going to contain fewer characters than six lines of words. In any event, this is why "lines of type in a proportionally spaced font" is a silly metric, and why I wanted a rough estimate of character-count equivalents. If someone wants to go through ACF packets and do some rigorous statistical analysis on tossup length, that'd clearly be better.
EDIT: Wait nevermind. Yes someone who is not me should do this.
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:47 am

The 21 tossups in Brown's ACF Fall packet have a mean character count of 661 with a standard deviation of 18.98. The shortest tossup is 630 characters, the longest is 699.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

cdcarter
Yuna
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by cdcarter » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:44 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:The 21 tossups in Brown's ACF Fall packet have a mean character count of 661 with a standard deviation of 18.98. The shortest tossup is 630 characters, the longest is 699.
Now do a regression of char count, and number of lines for this and other packets. That would actually be helpful.
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:24 am

cdcarter wrote:
BuzzerZen wrote:The 21 tossups in Brown's ACF Fall packet have a mean character count of 661 with a standard deviation of 18.98. The shortest tossup is 630 characters, the longest is 699.
Now do a regression of char count, and number of lines for this and other packets. That would actually be helpful.
You're the one who's taken statistics.
Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
BuzzerZen
Auron
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Arlington, VA/Hampshire College
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by BuzzerZen » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Evan Silberman
Hampshire College 07F

How are you actually reading one of my posts?

User avatar
cvdwightw
Auron
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Southern CA
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by cvdwightw » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:27 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:
cdcarter wrote:
BuzzerZen wrote:The 21 tossups in Brown's ACF Fall packet have a mean character count of 661 with a standard deviation of 18.98. The shortest tossup is 630 characters, the longest is 699.
Now do a regression of char count, and number of lines for this and other packets. That would actually be helpful.
You're the one who's taken statistics.
If you want to help me with this project, go to http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... wjfRo8ZCRA and enter data from some packets.

How to do this:
Packet should have normal 1" margins. If not, fix the margins.

Tournament, Round, Tossup, and Font should all be self-explanatory.

For "Full Lines", count the number of full lines taken up by the tossup. For "Spillover (in)", round to the nearest half inch (in Word 2007, go to Page Layout -> Align -> View Gridlines, then go Page Layout -> Align -> Setup Gridlines and set Horizontal Gridlines to 0.5", then just round by eye if the end of the question falls between two gridlines). Columns for "Total Inches" and "Total Lines" should update automatically, if not, copy the formula in the row above it. For "Characters", use Word Count and use the Characters (with spaces) value.

If you want, you can enter the rightmost two columns into Excel and create a Characters vs. Lines scatter plot. Add a trendline, and make sure to click the box to set y-intercept to 0 (0 lines = 0 characters).

For the 84 tossups I have in there so far, I get Characters = 113.51*Lines for TNR 10 with an R-squared value of 0.969.
Dwight Wynne
socalquizbowl.org
UC Irvine 2008-2013; UCLA 2004-2007; Capistrano Valley High School 2000-2003

"It's a competition, but it's not a sport. On a scale, if football is a 10, then rowing would be a two. One would be Quiz Bowl." --Matt Birk on rowing, SI On Campus, 10/21/03

"If you were my teammate, I would have tossed your ass out the door so fast you'd be emitting Cerenkov radiation, but I'm not classy like Dwight." --Jerry

cdcarter
Yuna
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Post by cdcarter » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:55 pm

If you have an iPod Touch or an iPhone, check out http://web.me.com/cdcarter/iApps/acf_score/index.html. It's a simple ACF game score keeping application that will not only track the score, but give the stat lines for individuals as well. If I thought there were enough of these little devices in the quizbowl world for it to be meaningful, it would be pretty easy for me to allow this to send scores to a central server and also track in depth bonus conversion and that kind of stuff. But until the touch technology spreads out, it's just a cute little toy that might come in handy, at least during practices.
Christian Carter
Minneapolis South High School '09 | Emerson College '13
PACE Member (retired)

User avatar
Mike Bentley
Auron
Posts: 5858
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:03 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Line count to character count conversion. Packet search.

Post by Mike Bentley » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:09 pm

BuzzerZen wrote:Latest in the "Evan likes doing silly things with computers" files: I have successfully leveraged existing tools to be able to transform plain-text ACF-formatted quiz bowl questions into RTFs. Not entirely existing tools, I guess. I slightly modified this thing called pandoc. Anyway, the point is, if anyone else happens to be interested in doing this, which doing it will probably require moderate-to-extensive software-compilation yak-shaving, let me know.

Edit: the point being that I can write my questions in vim now and nobody will be the wiser.
Do you have a solution for converting the other way? Going from rtf to plain text and then back again would make a lot of the problems in the Question Mixer go away.
Mike Bentley
VP of Editing, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008

User avatar
SnookerUSF
Rikku
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:55 am
Location: USF-Tampa, FL
Contact:

Re: Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Post by SnookerUSF » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:29 pm

I apologize for the lack of relevance to the thread, but I think Christian's IPhone App is pretty neat idea, if not totally practical, yet. I am emoting approval and you should to, though perhaps privately.
Ahmad Ragab, itinerant moderator at the New School for Social Research

ACF Nationals 2011:"Too real for the streets"
-Auroni Gupta

"Can 40,000 redacted topic Tossups be wrong?"

"With my gnomes I'm highlighting the danger of political opportunism and right-wing ideology. I get the feeling that this gnome has reopened an old wound."
-Ottomar Hoerl

ihavenoidea
Rikku
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:05 am

Re: Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Post by ihavenoidea » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:41 pm

cdcarter wrote:If you have an iPod Touch or an iPhone, check out http://web.me.com/cdcarter/iApps/acf_score/index.html. It's a simple ACF game score keeping application that will not only track the score, but give the stat lines for individuals as well. If I thought there were enough of these little devices in the quizbowl world for it to be meaningful, it would be pretty easy for me to allow this to send scores to a central server and also track in depth bonus conversion and that kind of stuff. But until the touch technology spreads out, it's just a cute little toy that might come in handy, at least during practices.

Thanks Chris, I'll definitely use this in practice.
Zhao Zhang
Rancho Bernardo High School '09

User avatar
Matthew D
Yuna
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Scenic Grant Alabama

Re: Character count, packet search, txt to rtf

Post by Matthew D » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:28 pm

is there one like this for a palm?
Matt Dennis
Coach DAR Quizbowl Team

Locked