2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

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2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:00 pm

The 2010 NAQT Northeast Sectional Championship Tournament will be hosted on Saturday, February 6, 2010 at Harvard more-or-less run by Harvard/myself. The top finishers in all three divisions (Division I Overall, Division I Undergraduate, and Division II) will qualify for the NAQT Intercollegiate Championship Tournament (ICT) to be held on the weekend of April 9-11, 2010.

This tournament is part of ACUI/NAQT Quiz Bowl: A Collegiate Academic Challenge Program.

Location:

The tournament will be held at Harvard in Sever Hall.

Divisions:

The field will be divided into Division I (more experience) and Division II (less experience) teams that will compete separately. Division I teams composed entirely of undergraduates who have competed in fewer than four SCTs are also eligible to win the Division I Undergraduate title. All Division I teams, regardless of undergraduate status, will compete against each other.

Institutions may enter teams in both divisions.

Qualifying for Nationals:

The top Division I and Division II teams will receive automatic bids to the ICT. The top Division I Undergraduate team will receive an automatic bid if there are at least four Division I Undergraduate teams in the field. The remaining spots at the ICT will be based on teams' statistical performance. A more complete description is available on the NAQT website.

Schedule:

Teams may check in between 8:30 and 9:00 a.m. on Saturday, February 6. At this time they will receive a copy of the rules (also available online on the NAQT website), a copy of their schedule for the day, and other pertinent information about the tournament. Following a brief meeting, games will begin. The exact format and schedule of the tournament will depend on the number of teams in attendance, but will guarantee each participant at least eleven games. There will be an hour-long break for lunch around noon.

Following the tournament, there will be an awards presentation. This will be kept brief and teams will be able to leave immediately thereafter.

Eligibility and Qualification:

All types of post-secondary institutions (public, private, religious, military, seminaries, medical schools, etc.) are eligible to compete in this event and no prior qualification is necessary. Teams may attend the Northeast SCT if they are part of ACUI's Region 2; they may also attend if they are part of a different region, but this tournament is the closest SCT to their school. Multiple teams from the same institution are welcome.

Community colleges are welcome to compete, though this event is not specifically a Community College SCT, so no community college-specific titles (or community college-specific ICT bids) will be awarded. Community colleges are, of course, eligible to win any of the regular titles.

The complete NAQT Collegiate Eligibility Rules are available online; there is also a collection of frequently asked questions about eligibility.

If you have a special situation, feel free to e-mail the eligibility committee for a ruling, but you must do so at least seven calendar days in advance of the tournament.

Format:

The format of the tournament will be determined by the number of teams that register, but all participants are guaranteed at least eleven games.

Registration:

NAQT will be establishing a centralized registration system for the 2010 SCTs. Teams should use that to register when it is available.

The base registration fee is $120 for the first team from a school and $100 for each subsequent team. There is a $10 discount for a bringing a working lockout system. There is a $30 discount for bringing an experienced moderator. There is a $40 per-team discount for schools that haven't competed in an NAQT Sectional in the previous two years. There is a $10 penalty for waiting to register until after February 2.

The registration fee includes one printed copy of the questions used at the tournament (in the appropriate Division). Please note that the questions will not be distributed until the conclusion of the tournament; teams that opt to leave early may pay ($5) to have their sets shipped to them. Division I (II) teams that would like a copy of the Division II (I) questions may purchase them for an additional $15.

Teams will pay NAQT in advance of the tournament. Please make checks out to "National Academic Quiz Tournaments" or "NAQT."

There are cancellation penalties for teams pulling out within 72 hours of the start of the tournament.

Prizes:

The top team in Division I, the top teams in Division II, and the top Division I Undergraduate team will receive books. The top eight individual scorers in Division I and the top eight individual scorers in Division II will receive books. The number of awards may be changed depending on the size of the final field.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me by e-mail (andy.watkins2@gmail.com) or phone (412.759.8359).

STAFF LIST

Jon Pinyan
Hannah Kirsch
Delano Barnes
Jeremy Hixson
Barry Liu
2 Princeton (Kunle Demuren, Jian Zhang)
Nina (Rutgers-NB as well)
6 Harvard (Ted, Dallas, me, plus Katy Peters and Randall Maas, and Brian Young on stats)
3 Brown (Aaron, Ian, Dan)

FIELD

taken from naqt.com

Division I (8) (DRR followed by finals)
RPI A (1 buzzer)
Dartmouth A (1 buzzer)
Dartmouth B
Columbia A (2 buzzers)
Brown A (1 buzzer)--could you guys also bring Harvard's?
McGill (1 buzzer)
Yale A (1 buzzer)
Yale B

(Likely staff: Katy, Dallas, Hannah, Ian. May rotate in other staffers.)

Division II (14) (2x8 into 2x8, followed by finals)
Boston University (2 buzzers)
Brown B
Cornell
Dartmouth C
Dartmouth D
Columbia B
Harvard B
McGill
Princeton
Providence College
RPI B
Tufts (1 buzzer)
UConn A (2 buzzer)
UConn B
Yale
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:24 am

1 D1 team and probably a D2 team as well
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by apasel422 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:52 pm

Tufts will likely send one or two Division II teams.

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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by Aaron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:53 pm

Yale will probably send two Division I teams and one Division II team. This might change if turnout wanes, but we'll let you know if that happens.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by jonpin » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:42 pm

I will likely be able to come and help moderate/staff the tournament if needed. If there's somewhere for me to stay Friday night, it is all the more likely.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:56 pm

Update: For whatever reason, MIT hasn't started reserving rooms yet; for whatever reason, my room reservations people haven't yet responded to an email sent seventeen days ago except to ask (ten days ago) for a clarification I immediately provided. This tournament will happen in one of those two places.

Further update; Please, please, please get registrations in sooner rather than later. It is difficult to staff this tournament as it is as it requires double the staff of a regular tournament. I would love to know a while in advance whether we have enough staff.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:55 pm

Brown is registered for one DI and one DII team right now.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by fleurdelivre » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:13 pm

jonpin wrote:I will likely be able to come and help moderate/staff the tournament if needed. If there's somewhere for me to stay Friday night, it is all the more likely.
Has anyone gotten back to you about housing yet? I'd need to check with roommates first, but I do have a couch...
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Rothlover » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:42 pm

On the housing note, anyone want to go in on a room in Bos on Fri night?
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:58 am

Rothlover wrote:On the housing note, anyone want to go in on a room in Bos on Fri night?
If you need a place to stay and can't find one in Boston, I'd be happy to put you up at my apartment on Friday and you can catch a ride with us to Harvard. Let me know if you want to do that.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:50 am

Note that anyone wanting parking in a Harvard lot should email me quite soon and plan to pay me five dollars at registration. Parking in other places is very touch-and-go and relies on getting very very lucky with on-street parking and continually feeding meters, parking in the lots of banks halfway to MIT, and giving up entirely. If you are driving, you will almost inevitably need a parking pass; please do not think you won't. Showing up late due to problems with finding parking will not create within me a sense of obligation.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:14 am

I just created my own account on with Harvard parking services (the department code for visitors is apparently 7700), that way I can print my own pass and not have to bug you or Brian Kennedy whenever we go to a Harvard tournament.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:58 am

aarcoh wrote:I just created my own account on with Harvard parking services (the department code for visitors is apparently 7700), that way I can print my own pass and not have to bug you or Brian Kennedy whenever we go to a Harvard tournament.
Holy god! It is such good news that that works now.

Brian Young, by the way. He deserves a Harvard College Bowl lifetime achievement award.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Kyle » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:15 am

I don't know if it still works, but in the old days I was told to enter PKO as the department name and 4600 as the department code. You can't buy a parking permit on the day of the tournament, which is why you have to do it online. I used to give out PKO / 4600 for tournaments, but then when several of the main parking lots got renovated they took down the old system. EDIT: Actually, nevermind, they changed it.

Also, I still can't forgive Brian Young for murdering that guy at the basketball game and thus ending up on the no-fly list and making my life extremely difficult.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:16 pm

Hey, we're going to need volunteer staff or this tournament is not going to be able to run. I think when we all met at FIST during lunch it was pretty clear that no one team in the northeast has enough staff to staff sectionals by themselves, and that as a consequence we were going to need outside help--and notably that DI teams that think they can qualify shorthanded (you know who you are) will play shorthanded to give us staff (and to give them staff discounts). That was our understanding, and the penalty for betraying that understanding is that one room at this tournament, it looks like, will mysteriously have no people reading games in it. That blows, huh? Actually, it's one room if we break NAQT's two staffers per room rule; if we don't, it's five rooms.

Brown's coming up big with its staffers. That's great. We need someone else to do so, too.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Not That Kind of Christian!! » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:27 pm

We can't scrape up a team, so I'll come staff this.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Brown's coming up big with its staffers. That's great. We need someone else to do so, too.
Right now, I think I can safely vouch for 3 staffers and we'll try to come up with a 4th if we can. Can anyone provide a comprehensive update on the staffing situation?
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:30 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Brown's coming up big with its staffers. That's great. We need someone else to do so, too.
Right now, I think I can safely vouch for 3 staffers and we'll try to come up with a 4th if we can. Can anyone provide a comprehensive update on the staffing situation?
The post up top notes that--assuming four Brown staffers--we'll have 11 in all. If we have three, we have ten.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:33 pm

One important note is that if the parity of the DI or DII field changes, then we'll have to run a format with a bye, thereby providing us with staffers (albeit in a suboptimal way, of course).
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Wall of Ham » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:51 pm

So, uh, Cornell might be sending our teams to the Mid Atlantic SCT if NAQT permits, which may lessen the staffing strain here.

Both are 6 hours from Ithaca anyway.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast at MIT (2/6/10)

Post by jonpin » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:59 pm

fleurdelivre wrote:
jonpin wrote:I will likely be able to come and help moderate/staff the tournament if needed. If there's somewhere for me to stay Friday night, it is all the more likely.
Has anyone gotten back to you about housing yet? I'd need to check with roommates first, but I do have a couch...
Did you get the email I sent a couple days ago about that? If the couch is available, I would be happy to take it.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:27 pm

I mean, RPI's bringing two teams and the only members who really have experience reading (let alone reading on a clock) are Matt and I. No one on my team will want me to staff and not play and Matt's geo expertise (and just decent overall level of knowledge) means I really want him playing as well. So hopefully everyone understands when I say we can't provide any staffers.

Of course, if there are byes Matt and I can both read during them.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:49 pm

Well, right now, each division requires four rooms and hence eight staffers. For a total of 16. The bottom bracket currently has byes already, since it has 9 teams. If Cornell goes to the mid-Atlantic, that creates byes in the top bracket as well, which together should provide something like another 5 to 8 staffers, depending on which teams are the bye teams. This is doable, but relies on no changes in the field composition. Are there teams that have not registered but are likely to do so within the next week?
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by jonpin » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:18 pm

Worth noting, the host requirements page says the following:
Host staffing responsibilities involve providing a moderator and a scorekeeper in each Division I room and a single staffer in each Division II room. Since Division II questions are shorter, it is hoped that a single staffer will be able to both read and keep score while still reading a satisfactory number of tossups. This is in addition to whatever control room staff are necessary to run the tournament, resolve protests, and tally statistics. Hosts may not enter house teams if doing so would leave insufficient staff to meet these requirements.
Also D2 looks like it's at 10 + Conn? + Cornell? so it's a minimum of five rooms.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mike Bentley » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:12 am

I seem to recall being able to get through 22+ tossups reading DII SCT last year without a scorekeeper for a few matches, and I'm not the world's fastest reader. If you have fast people it won't be the end of the world if they're reading DII packets without a scorekeeper.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by fleurdelivre » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:41 am

jonpin wrote:Worth noting, the host requirements page says the following:
Host staffing responsibilities involve providing a moderator and a scorekeeper in each Division I room and a single staffer in each Division II room. Since Division II questions are shorter, it is hoped that a single staffer will be able to both read and keep score while still reading a satisfactory number of tossups. This is in addition to whatever control room staff are necessary to run the tournament, resolve protests, and tally statistics. Hosts may not enter house teams if doing so would leave insufficient staff to meet these requirements.
This can definitely be done - sometimes you need to pause the clock if you've got some quirk in the scoresheet to deal with, but it's very much within the realm of the possible.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:43 pm

And, indeed, I'm planning to run this tournament with single-person rooms if at all necessary; I's not biased in favor of having two people per room to any extent greater than NAQT's requirement/strongly worded suggestion that one do so.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:49 am

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:And, indeed, I'm planning to run this tournament with single-person rooms if at all necessary; I's not biased in favor of having two people per room to any extent greater than NAQT's requirement/strongly worded suggestion that one do so.
The field is finalized, and we have enough volunteer staff to handle it in either of its possible conformations. Thank you for volunteering, everyone.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:17 pm

Teams being able to register after the registration deadline (and needing to do so, because of factors at other sites) mean that we have more teams now.

Please let me know if you can bring buzzers. We are okay with staffers (in that we have enough right now to run the tournament pretty well, and may soon have more coming from MIT) but we don't have enough buzzers promised yet. Eleven is not, to me, enough for ten rooms because failures happen.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Ondes Martenot » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:54 pm

Doesn't MIT have a buzzer they could let you use? I hear they're really close to Harvard.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:14 pm

Ondes Martenot wrote:Doesn't MIT have a buzzer they could let you use? I hear they're really close to Harvard.
MIT's freshmen have been left rather out of the loop as their seniors have bailed out of the organization; Kai's trying rather hard to get people to come and staff. But the chance of being able to obtain an MIT by hand-waving is low these days.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:14 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Teams being able to register after the registration deadline (and needing to do so, because of factors at other sites) mean that we have more teams now.

Please let me know if you can bring buzzers. We are okay with staffers (in that we have enough right now to run the tournament pretty well, and may soon have more coming from MIT) but we don't have enough buzzers promised yet. Eleven is not, to me, enough for ten rooms because failures happen.
You're ok with staffers counting how many from Brown?
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:23 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Teams being able to register after the registration deadline (and needing to do so, because of factors at other sites) mean that we have more teams now.

Please let me know if you can bring buzzers. We are okay with staffers (in that we have enough right now to run the tournament pretty well, and may soon have more coming from MIT) but we don't have enough buzzers promised yet. Eleven is not, to me, enough for ten rooms because failures happen.
You're ok with staffers counting how many from Brown?
Counting three. Though four would be an enormous help, allowing someone to do radical things like enter stats at some time other than just over lunch (with greater comfort).
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:52 pm

Schedule

This post will hold this tournament's expected schedule, to be updated as new registrations come in via naqt.com.

EIGHT TEAM DI

An initial round robin will rebracket into two brackets of four, for ten games in ten rounds, followed by finals if necessary (and undergraduate finals, as well).

FOURTEEN TEAM DII

There will be a round robin, followed by finals.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Lagotto Romagnolo » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:13 pm

Here are our data:
DI: Jerry
DII: Guy and Ben
Staffers: Ian, Daniel, me

Edited for grammar
Last edited by Lagotto Romagnolo on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by olsb25 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:04 am

With the imminent cancellation of the Mid-Atlantic site, I was wondering... can we bring our D2 team if the two of us who were going to play D1 help staff? We also have a buzzer system to contribute...

ALSO: I kinda need to know in the next hour, so I can cancel our van reservation if needed.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:35 am

olsb25 wrote:With the imminent cancellation of the Mid-Atlantic site, I was wondering... can we bring our D2 team if the two of us who were going to play D1 help staff? We also have a buzzer system to contribute...

ALSO: I kinda need to know in the next hour, so I can cancel our van reservation if needed.
Yes, only if Cornell also comes and does the same (they'd been planning on it). For the sake of our brackets, I can't really take only one of you on. Try to coordinate with them, perhaps?

Post your phone number and we'll hope Barry calls me/you/both. 412 759 8359
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:40 am

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Schedule

This post will hold this tournament's expected schedule, to be updated as new registrations come in via naqt.com.

EIGHT TEAM DI

An initial round robin will rebracket into two brackets of four, for ten games in ten rounds, followed by finals if necessary (and undergraduate finals, as well).

FOURTEEN TEAM DII

There will be a round robin, followed by finals.
Only ten rounds for DI? Isn't it a rule that there are supposed to be at least 11 or something? Why aren't we doing a double RR, like you were going to do with 7 teams anyway? It's the same number of rounds.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by olsb25 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:54 am

757 597 5018 is my number.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:03 pm

grapesmoker wrote: Only ten rounds for DI? Isn't it a rule that there are supposed to be at least 11 or something? Why aren't we doing a double RR, like you were going to do with 7 teams anyway? It's the same number of rounds.
It seemed to be ten, but as discussed elsewhere, sources disagree. In any event, Fourteen round schedules are essentially impossible on a sixteen round set where we're required to reserve round sixteen for tiebreakers (and, well, even if we weren't required to, I would sure want to) and where we are required to play off an advantaged final even if Brown goes 14-0 and the next best team goes 10-4. That's why I was very uncomfortable with the seven-team schedule. If you think the DRR is better, then I'll consider it, but with the packets we have, it may not be feasible.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mike Bentley » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:04 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Schedule

This post will hold this tournament's expected schedule, to be updated as new registrations come in via naqt.com.

EIGHT TEAM DI

An initial round robin will rebracket into two brackets of four, for ten games in ten rounds, followed by finals if necessary (and undergraduate finals, as well).

FOURTEEN TEAM DII

There will be a round robin, followed by finals.
Only ten rounds for DI? Isn't it a rule that there are supposed to be at least 11 or something? Why aren't we doing a double RR, like you were going to do with 7 teams anyway? It's the same number of rounds.
NAQT requires only 10 rounds.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:06 pm

olsb25 wrote:757 597 5018 is my number.
I have called Barry (814 574 8031) and gotten no answer. Please try him again during the next hour, as I'm in class. I'm unsure as to his plans (he didn't give me a time, last night, after which they couldn't be changed) so I'm confident we can get them.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Susan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:11 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Schedule

This post will hold this tournament's expected schedule, to be updated as new registrations come in via naqt.com.

EIGHT TEAM DI

An initial round robin will rebracket into two brackets of four, for ten games in ten rounds, followed by finals if necessary (and undergraduate finals, as well).

FOURTEEN TEAM DII

There will be a round robin, followed by finals.
Only ten rounds for DI? Isn't it a rule that there are supposed to be at least 11 or something? Why aren't we doing a double RR, like you were going to do with 7 teams anyway? It's the same number of rounds.
If everyone's clamoring for more rounds but you don't want to burn 14 on a double round robin, perhaps you could do one round robin among the eight teams, rebracket into two brackets of four, and then have each of those brackets do a double round robin? This gives you 7+ 2x3 = 13 rounds, leaving you two for an advantaged final and one for tiebreakers. I don't think this format is unassailably awesome, but it would give you a couple more rounds while leaving you enough packets to cover any contingencies.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by ntan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:17 pm

Hey Andy,

I texted barry about your post above, and will probably send him an email forwarding that message as well. Earlier today, he sent out an email to the club saying that it didnt seem as if spaces would be available for the harvard SCT, so we should expect not to go. That said, I'll keep trying to contact him to see what his decision is, since he's the one providing rides.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:26 pm

myamphigory wrote: If everyone's clamoring for more rounds but you don't want to burn 14 on a double round robin, perhaps you could do one round robin among the eight teams, rebracket into two brackets of four, and then have each of those brackets do a double round robin? This gives you 7+ 2x3 = 13 rounds, leaving you two for an advantaged final and one for tiebreakers. I don't think this format is unassailably awesome, but it would give you a couple more rounds while leaving you enough packets to cover any contingencies.
Yeah, this is a pretty good option, and probably the best available.
ntan wrote:Hey Andy,

I texted barry about your post above, and will probably send him an email forwarding that message as well. Earlier today, he sent out an email to the club saying that it didnt seem as if spaces would be available for the harvard SCT, so we should expect not to go. That said, I'll keep trying to contact him to see what his decision is, since he's the one providing rides.
Thanks.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:36 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:It seemed to be ten, but as discussed elsewhere, sources disagree. In any event, Fourteen round schedules are essentially impossible on a sixteen round set where we're required to reserve round sixteen for tiebreakers (and, well, even if we weren't required to, I would sure want to) and where we are required to play off an advantaged final even if Brown goes 14-0 and the next best team goes 10-4. That's why I was very uncomfortable with the seven-team schedule. If you think the DRR is better, then I'll consider it, but with the packets we have, it may not be feasible.
I was going to make the suggestion that Susan already made about the double-RR in the playoff brackets, so now that that's on the table:

This is total fucking bullshit. I realize it's not your fault, Andy, but seriously, fuck this noise you guys. Not only is the SCT now more expensive per round than any other tournament for us, but we also have to sacrifice some of our best players for staffing purposes just so this tournament can even happen. Sorry, but given these circumstances I find a 10-round tournament completely and thoroughly unacceptable. Given that every win is now worth more because of the shrunken sample space, I'm sort of failing to see the incentive for not just pulling my players back onto my teams so we can play at full strength. Now, that would be a shitty thing for me to do and would totally fuck up the logistics of this tournament, so I don't actually want to or plan to do this, but I kind of find this whole situation unpalatable and frankly more than a little offensive. An 8-team field is not something that only occurs once in a blue moon; NAQT should have either produced another packet to ensure that an 8-team field would be able to play more than 10 rounds or it should waive the tiebreaker requirement and go by statistics. As of right now, the only schedule that I find to be acceptable is the double-RR within the playoff brackets, which is still less ideal than a straight-up double RR but is probably the best that we can do given the circumstances.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:47 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:where we are required to play off an advantaged final even if Brown goes 14-0 and the next best team goes 10-4. That's why I was very uncomfortable with the seven-team schedule. If you think the DRR is better, then I'll consider it, but with the packets we have, it may not be feasible.
Per email from R., the above requirement is not true. (That is: we recommend, but DO NOT MANDATE, finals in this case.) In particular, the recommendation for finals should not be construed to deprive the field of round-robin games that people want to play.

I would suggest:

-double round-robin (14 games)
-record exactly tied (1 game final)
-all else, the team with the best record wins.
-(still 1-2 backup packets)
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:51 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
I would suggest:

-double round-robin (14 games)
-record exactly tied (1 game final)
-all else, the team with the best record wins.
-(still 1-2 backup packets)
Well, I'm glad that the sensible thing which I was advocating is actually the sensible thing which might actually end up being done.
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:55 pm

Awesome; I thought finals were mandated always (since they happen at ICT), but I am silly and wrong. This is good and will be done!
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Re: 2010 NAQT SCT Northeast NOW AT HARVARD (2/6/10)

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:12 pm

At ICT we have more packets and precise control over the number of teams.

We'll get this straightened out on the website over the summer.
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