ICT schedule discussion

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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:56 am

Speaking as someone who's been screwed over by Friday rounds, I support the Bruce/Jerry option. Also didn't your flight for MO get delayed?
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by grapesmoker » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:14 am

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote:Speaking as someone who's been screwed over by Friday rounds, I support the Bruce/Jerry option. Also didn't your flight for MO get delayed?
No, not really, our flight to MO got in when it was supposed to. Now, my flight to CO... that we shall never speak of again.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Captain Sinico » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:01 pm

Sun Devil Student wrote:...13 rounds is quite a feat...
Your standards are drastically at odds with the norms of the quizbowl circuit. Many, many tournaments have 13+ rounds and nobody dies; if they're run efficiently, few people even complain. Also, bear in mind that these are 13 20-minute rounds, so like 6 hours of quizbowl.
To be honest with you, I prefer a two-day option because I'd prefer to be able to rest before the playoffs. However, I don't understand where your rhetoric for the same position is coming from. People are absolutely capable of playing 13 rounds of high-level quizbowl without any ill effects - it happens almost every weekend!

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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by fluffy4102 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:06 pm

Sun Devil Student wrote:...13 rounds is quite a feat...
How many rounds did you play at your SCT site? We got through 13 rounds with a long lunch break and ended before 4.

Anyways, while I think the arguments could have been expressed in a gentler way, there are some of us who have lab work (read as: really expensive things die), jobs, and seminars that are unavoidable. Although you're entitled to your opinion, it's clear that a one-day tournament on Saturday is the best option for a large majority of teams. We would really appreciate a schedule that doesn't force certain teams to miss rounds or their own personal responsibilities.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Sun Devil Student » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:57 pm

fluffy4102 wrote:...it's clear that a one-day tournament on Saturday is the best option for a large majority of teams.
This doesn't seem so clear to me; I see a large split, with a lot of people saying Saturday-only and a lot of people saying Saturday/Sunday. Then again, we haven't heard from all the teams attending yet (nor do we know who some of them are yet).

Now, I would be sympathetic to anyone whose experiments must be done on Sundays (and on that Sunday in particular), and I think most of the community would be too. Is that the case? If it is, that might change the minds of many Saturday/Sunday supporters (or they would be willing to accomodate you despite their preferences).
fluffy4102 wrote:We would really appreciate a schedule that doesn't force certain teams to miss rounds or their own personal responsibilities.
This, I think we all agree with.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by cvdwightw » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:25 pm

The biggest argument for a one-day tournament is this: any reasonably competent tournament staff (of which ICT undoubtedly is) can get a 14-round timed tournament (I'm counting tiebreakers) done by 5:30 including lunch. There is no reason that we can't then have a dinner break, followed by tiebreakers and finals, and have the tournament-including-awards-ceremony done by 8:30, which is earlier than the Friday night rounds let out (and if you're like me you've been up since before 5:30 in the morning on ICT Friday). Especially if NAQT uses a hotel as the ICT site again, you'll probably have the vast majority of teams come back at some point after dinner to watch one or more finals matches and the awards ceremony.

I don't see how having all games on Saturday is going to make teams more tired by the end of Saturday - the teams that should be in contention for the title should already be used to longer tournament slogs, and you avoid the issue where teams (especially West Coast teams) are taking a red-eye or early-morning flight because that's the only thing that leaves after they're done on Thursday and gets in before check-in on Friday. I'm almost positive that my team's performance on Saturday afternoon has almost always been better than that on Friday night, and that's because of actually getting a decent night's sleep the night before.

On the other hand, there have been a litany of problems with the Friday-Saturday model. Furthermore, the ICT format does not easily lend itself to a Saturday-Sunday model (What are you going to do, put the last three playoff matches on Sunday morning? This seems odd.). Since there's a clear and easy way for ICT to do a one-day tournament with clear lunch and dinner breaks, and it won't result in some of the tiredness issues ACF Nationals has had in years past, I can't see a good argument against the one-day tournament unless NAQT (like ACF did last year) decides to add a bunch more games.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Strongside » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:14 pm

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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Susan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:21 pm

I'm delighted to see that this will be in Chicago--if anyone wants restaurant recommendations, etc., hit me up.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Cheynem » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:07 pm

This is the same hotel that HSNCT was held at, right? If so, it has a delightfully whimsical layout.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Correct.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by manary » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:11 pm

Actually, can we no do this Fri-Sat. I was looking an plane tickets, and we would have to pay a ton (the cheap ones get in late on fri, so we'd have to take a direct flight from early Fri to get there by 5, which is more expensive).

I'll still vote Sat-Sun, and barring that, all day saturday would be ok
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Well, seeing that NAQT thinks it can run the all-day Saturday tournament from 8 am to 7 pm makes me rescind my earlier desire to stay with the old Friday-Saturday model. I'd hate to be the one vote that makes Harvard A lose a player! And 11 hours is fine. I strongly, strongly prefer no Sunday games, though, but they don't seem to be offering that as an option anyway.

PS--If it works out, meet us Friday evening on the rooftop dining area at Pegasus on Halsted in Greektown!
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by theMoMA » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:46 pm

Is there a place that currently lists all of the autobids that were extended, or must NAQT wait to hear back about the hosts' plans for those bids until posting them?
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:48 pm

We're working on this (but I think there are some that we don't know what division they would like yet.)
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by theMoMA » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:53 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:We're working on this (but I think there are some that we don't know what division they would like yet.)
I thought that that might be the obstacle. Thanks.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Strongside » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:37 pm

I don't really care what the ICT schedule is, but I agree that Friday evening games are kind of inconvenient. If you don't live within 600 miles or so of ICT, you generally have to leave Thursday to ensure getting there on time. If you take a flight Friday morning, and it gets delayed/canceled or some other unfortunate event, you might not get there on time. Leaving Thursday night might cost more money, and force people to miss various Friday activities. If there is a snowstorm or something like that, a bunch of teams could be late.

Trying to run 17 rounds with check in, lunch, and an awards ceremony on one day would be doable, but might be pushing it. Since this is a national tournament, it would be nice to be fresh for the later rounds.

I was thinking of a schedule like this.

Saturday Morning. Check in and all 7 of the prelim rounds.

After that: Lunch break and tiebreakers.

After that: 3 playoff games.

End of Saturday games

Sunday. 3 Playoff games, tiebreakers, and finals before lunch.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by grapesmoker » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:15 pm

I really don't see any need to carry 3 playoff games over into the next day. We could have this done by 7 or 8 in the evening, which isn't particularly outrageous.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by dtaylor4 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:18 pm

grapesmoker wrote:I really don't see any need to carry 3 playoff games over into the next day. We could have this done by 7 or 8 in the evening, which isn't particularly outrageous.
I think if it is all done in one day, then a dinner break should be provided before the finals. This way, those in contention can get refreshed.

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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by cvdwightw » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:57 pm

Proposed one-day ICT schedule:

8:00-8:30 Check-in
8:30-9:00 Welcome and Rules Meeting
9:00-12:30 Seven prelim rounds
12:30-1:00 Tiebreakers
12:30 or 1:00-2:00 Lunch
2:00-5:00 Six playoff rounds
5:00-6:30 Dinner
6:30-7:00 Play-in or other tiebreaker
7:00-7:30 Finals 1
7:30-8:00 Finals 2
8:00-8:30 Awards

Teams that are in contention are almost certainly (with the possible exception of CC teams) teams that won't mind playing until 8:00, especially if they have a dinner break to refresh. Non-contending teams would have the opportunity to either watch the finals or do something else with their Saturday night, or some combination like take an extended dinner and show up for the 7:00 finals match. Most staff, as well, would be done after packing up their room at 5:00.

Brendan's schedule leaves a huge gap between essentially 3:30 in the afternoon and the next morning, which I don't particularly like. The only real advantage to having a two-day schedule is that it is easier to compensate if the tournament runs majorly behind, which at ICT only really happens at the end of the tournament when team-wrangling becomes necessary. Since (1) team-wrangling for morning tiebreakers is eliminated with any schedule placing prelim games on Saturday and (2) team-wrangling for playoff tiebreakers/finals matches is eliminated with a simple "If you believe your team is in contention for the D1/D1 Undergrad/D2/D2 CC title, please show up to [Control Room] at 6:15" announcement before Round 13, there's no real reason ICT would run more than a few minutes behind, and there is at least one break (dinner) that can be cut down slightly if the tournament starts running behind.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Not That Kind of Christian!! » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:03 pm

Strongside wrote:If there is a snowstorm or something like that, a bunch of teams could be late.
I certainly hope this mid-Atlantic silliness doesn't continue into April!
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Susan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:10 pm

cvdwightw wrote:...team-wrangling...
It just occured to me to wonder whether NAQT collects mobile numbers from teams, because that could probably speed up team-wrangling.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:11 pm

We do, but teams don't always supply them. I've proposed to R. that cell-phone contact be a mandatory part of SCT/ICT registration for 2010-11.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by jagluski » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:32 pm

myamphigory wrote:
cvdwightw wrote:...team-wrangling...
It just occured to me to wonder whether NAQT collects mobile numbers from teams, because that could probably speed up team-wrangling.

We did collect cell phone contact numbers from HSNCT teams last year and it actually worked when we needed to find a couple of teams that didn't show up on time for their first round playoff match.

I'll second what Jeff said and hope that NAQT begins to include a cell phone number from each team as part of registration for this exact reason.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:45 am

If NAQT adopts a Friday-Saturday schedule for ICT, I vow to skewer them in the medium of video.
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by manary » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:58 pm

It's Saturday only!!!!!!
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:01 am

Indeed. We're still going to survey qualifying teams in the next month or so re: 2011 schedule (since this thread didn't seem to produce a consensus between Saturday-only and Saturday/Sunday).
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Re: ICT schedule discussion

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:33 am

Whig's Boson wrote:If NAQT adopts a Friday-Saturday schedule for ICT, I vow to skewer them in the medium of video.
This is what did them in.
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