It's not X, but CLUE

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It's not X, but CLUE

Post by AKKOLADE » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:22 am

I seem to have noticed this lead-in more often from molder college sets, but it seems to have fallen out of favor, with it rarely popping up. What's the consensus on the appropriateness of this phrase?
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Auroni » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:23 am

This phrase is vital for preventing hoses on otherwise interesting clues. One question that I distinctly remembered that suffered from a lack of this phrase was a tossup on "birds" or "ravens" of some sort that used the clue (paraphrased by me) "Romulus was fed by one of these creatures." Something like, "It is not a wolf, but..." would have preventing people from being hosed on this clue.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:48 am

I've used it in 2008 (July Crisis tossup about South Carolina) and 2009 (EuroFest tossup on Portugal) and nobody complained.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by theMoMA » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:07 am

As long as they're used to disambiguate and not as some kind of "clever" figure-it-out aid, they're usually fine.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Joe Romersa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:08 pm

This sounds like a bad NAcutie leadin.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Mechanical Beasts » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:39 pm

Joe Romersa wrote:This sounds like a bad NAcutie leadin.
I don't think you know what that is.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Joe Romersa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:35 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Joe Romersa wrote:This sounds like a bad NAcutie leadin.
I don't think you know what that is.
Nevermind about the leadin part, but I was thinking of something like:
[Describes statue of David]...It wasn't made by a ninja turtle, but FTP name this bronze statue by Donatello.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:40 pm

Then you have no idea what circumstances people are talking about to use this in.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:14 pm

We're talking things like "It's not France, but one event in this state's history is called the St. Batholomew massacre" as the first sentence of a tossup on South Carolina.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by stevebahnaman » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:07 am

Whig's Boson wrote:We're talking things like "It's not France, but one event in this state's history is called the St. Batholomew massacre" as the first sentence of a tossup on South Carolina.
Nearly every time I have read a clue like this in a packet that's come out in the past like...5 years, I have been glad it was there for the sake of somebody. It eliminates distraction because people aren't sitting on "wait wait is it just France?" and missing clues.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Louis XIV and Twenty Million Henchmen » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:13 am

Let's say you're writing a tossup on the creator of a certain work that you want to use as your leadin, and there's someone else who wrote a work of the same name, so the work alone would not be uniquely identifying, but what you use as the next clue (or the combination of the two clues) is:

"He's not John Doe, but an aria from his opera 'ACF Regionals 2013' provided the opening theme for his Second Piccolo Concerto."

In this case, John Doe wrote an opera of the same name, but one or zero piccolo concertos. (Let's also say that the opera clue is harder than the fact that the guy who is the answer to the question wrote two piccolo concertos.) Would the question be OK this way? Or does the "it's not…" have to apply to an entire sentence, making this bad sentence construction (akin to "This ruler won Battle X, Battle Y, and promoted his foreign secretary to vizier")?

(I have a much better, non-fictional example of this, but it's otherwise a good question and I want to be able to actually use it. ^^; )
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:01 am

Repulse class ship of the line wrote:Let's say you're writing a tossup on the creator of a certain work that you want to use as your leadin, and there's someone else who wrote a work of the same name, so the work alone would not be uniquely identifying, but what you use as the next clue (or the combination of the two clues) is:

"He's not John Doe, but an aria from his opera 'ACF Regionals 2013' provided the opening theme for his Second Piccolo Concerto."

In this case, John Doe wrote an opera of the same name, but one or zero piccolo concertos. (Let's also say that the opera clue is harder than the fact that the guy who is the answer to the question wrote two piccolo concertos.) Would the question be OK this way? Or does the "it's not…" have to apply to an entire sentence, making this bad sentence construction (akin to "This ruler won Battle X, Battle Y, and promoted his foreign secretary to vizier")?

(I have a much better, non-fictional example of this, but it's otherwise a good question and I want to be able to actually use it. ^^; )
"It's not..." is used entirely correctly in this instance. People are generally tacitly aware of what the disambiguation is applying to, so it's not as if anyone is going to assume that John Doe did everything mentioned in the sentence.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by theMoMA » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:06 pm

Just in plain English, "it's not ____" implies only that it's not that thing. You could write "He's not the country of Brazil, but this composer..." and it would still have a sensible meaning, even if it would obviously serve no purpose.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by grapesmoker » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:12 pm

theMoMA wrote:Just in plain English, "it's not ____" implies only that it's not that thing. You could write "He's not the country of Brazil, but this composer..." and it would still have a sensible meaning, even if it would obviously serve no purpose.
Every CO tossup is going to start this way.
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Re: It's not X, but CLUE

Post by Auks Ran Ova » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:40 pm

grapesmoker wrote:
theMoMA wrote:Just in plain English, "it's not ____" implies only that it's not that thing. You could write "He's not the country of Brazil, but this composer..." and it would still have a sensible meaning, even if it would obviously serve no purpose.
Every CO tossup is going to start this way.
300 tossups on composers? I can deal with that.
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