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2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:01 pm
by tksaleija
I got the idea for this from user Chromica's post last year: here's a space to discuss small school nats since it's about a month away. I'll start, though I have precious little to add. In no specific order:

Miami Valley: The Groger brothers are an amazing duo. John John has put up amazing numbers time and again this season, with William always getting around the top 10 scoring as well for some good backup. Overall, easily a clear contender for the title.

Early College at Guilford: Fred Morlan has consistently ranked them pretty high (I think 11th or something right now). Tejas Santanam is a great player and certain to lead his team to good standing. Another contender.

Friends Select: While they weren't at last year's SSNCT (I think), they did really well at HSNCT and have continued to do so this year. Watch out.

St. Martin's Episcopal: Bryce Monier is scary and hasn't scored less than 100 ppg on an NAQT set since last year's SSNCT. He's also a senior, which tends to be a big motivator to break past your limits. He'll bring St. Martin's deep out of brain and willpower.

St. Mark's: They graduated two of their best last year, which is an obvious road bump, but they've been doing consistently well so far. High ppbs and ppg all around.

Latin School of Chicago: Both their A and B teams are dangerous. Their A team has got good depth, making them a good opponent. They'll be fun to watch (but maybe less fun if you're an opposing team).

Monroe County Middle College: A dark horse ready to face any and all who stand in their way. Rumor has it that their captain has spent the last 4 months doing nothing but studying questions and writing packets in order to fill in the cracks of his knowledge and familiarize himself with bonus patterns (geography and science especially because wow, one is obscure and the other is massive).

Again, I'm sorry that I have so little to add, and it's all from the Open division, that's just the only one I really follow because that's where my team will be. I'm very excited for nats and any ensuing discussion(s) that come out of this post. It's going to be fun.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:03 pm
by db0wman
Uni Lab is attending, currently #19 on HSQBRank.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:20 pm
by tksaleija
db0wman wrote:Uni Lab is attending, currently #19 on HSQBRank.
Again, if I didn't mention your team, it's not at all because I think they're not good, it's either because a) I haven't really paid attention to every team or b) probably still a. I'm sure there's a bunch of really great teams, all of whom deserve consideration, it just takes a very long time to type them all on a phone and I'd rather leave the in-depth analyses up to the people who know what they're talking about. I'm sure Uni Lab will do great.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:19 am
by troyharris
Note also that unfortunately this year NHBAB and SSNCT coincide, and so I would expect that some teams that may normally be at SSNCT may not be there this year. We are one of them, and are really bummed to be missing SSNCT this year. It is such a great event.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:26 pm
by jzlau2
I am a player at University Laboratory High School in Illinois, a school of 330 students (adjusted by IHSA to 445 due to Uni being a selective-admissions school). I was looking over the stats from the year I was in 8th grade and it seems like Uni never qualified for the SSNCT during the 2016-17 academic year. Uni (along with Chiago Latin) wasn't even recognized as a small school at the 2017 NAQT Illinois State Championship (despite placing ahead of Southwestern, which was named the "Small School Champion"). On the other hand, looking at various tournament stats, I see some schools that are placed lower but still qualified for SSNCT. Is it because Uni is a selective-admissions public laboratory high school, meaning that it did not fit either of the "Traditional Public" or "Private and Charter" classifications set for the 2017 SSNCT?

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:21 pm
by Important Bird Area
jzlau2 wrote:Is it because Uni is a selective-admissions public laboratory high school, meaning that it did not fit either of the "Traditional Public" or "Private and Charter" classifications set for the 2017 SSNCT?
That is correct.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:07 pm
by bretthogan43
I predict West Point with a top 10 finish.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:35 pm
by Chromica
bretthogan43 wrote:I predict West Point with a top 10 finish.
Considering that they kept 70% of their scoring from last year, and that they've put up some pretty good numbers at tournaments this year, I'd say that's quite probable. However, there are a lot of good schools in both divisions, so while I don't think West Point will be easy to knock off, them getting in the Top 10 is far from certain.

On another note, I've got a list of 22 Public and 18 Open division schools that I'll probably pare down to 15 and 10, respectively, to give a closer look to, and perhaps make predictions about. Hopefully I'll have that ready by next weekend.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:11 pm
by mazinomer
I know I’m biased, but with our full A-Team, I think Ottawa Hills has a great shot at a Top 5-8 finish and VSS title.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:38 am
by bolshevik
mazinomer wrote:I think Ottawa Hills has a great shot at a VSS title.
you sleepin' on Hallsville

everyone in this thread sleepin' on Hallsville

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:20 am
by mazinomer
bolshevik wrote:
mazinomer wrote:I think Ottawa Hills has a great shot at a VSS title.
you sleepin' on Hallsville

everyone in this thread sleepin' on Hallsville
I figured Hallsville was definitely a given for VSS contender. To me, it's them, us, and you guys fighting for the VSS title.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:15 am
by Chromica
You all would be wise not to forget Raceland-Worthington.

Edit: Phrasing

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:22 pm
by bigbluemist
While not quiz bowl style Raceland did win the Kentucky quick recall state championship in March.

A very good and experienced team.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:28 pm
by troyharris
I think Hallsville is more than just a VSS contender. They are a legit choice to possibly win it all. A superstar and experience go a long way at Nationals.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:38 pm
by Chromica
troyharris wrote:I think Hallsville is more than just a VSS contender. They are a legit choice to possibly win it all. A superstar and experience go a long way at Nationals.
While I personally consider Hallsville a very likely Top 4 contender, I am not pegging them as likely champions, primarily because while they usually do put up very good numbers, even on harder sets like DII SCT, one-man teams tend to be more inconsistent than more balanced squads. While that isn't to say that Sam's teammates aren't putting up respectable numbers, Hallsville isn't quite at the point where I'd peg them as champions, especially in the face of equally experienced but more balanced squads like Glasgow.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:29 pm
by troyharris
Hard to argue against Glasgow in the public division, that is true.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:21 pm
by Two Headed Beast
Unfortunately, I will not be attending due to the conflict with NHBB. However, William and the rest of the team will still be going, and I believe Miami Valley can remain competitive. I have a lot of overlap with William, so I don't think we will be losing very much of our point base. William has decent literature and mythology coverage and Max can give support on science. The full extent of the shadow effect remains to be seen, but William's performances at MSNCT and during this season indicate that it will be quite substantial. Missing out on SSNCT was a difficult decision, and I am glad I will not have to make it in the future. I hope to see some of you at HSNCT.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:29 pm
by Chromica
I've procrastinated long enough on the rankings I said I'd do, so for those who are waiting on that, I apologize, so here's something in the meantime. This is the list of schools I got, so feel free to debate on who you think would win, who's the dark horse, etc. If I can hammer it out in the next 2-3 days, that would be ideal. If I missed any teams, I apologize, and please let me know. For the most part my criteria was simply teams that could consistently put up over 16 aPPB.

Traditional Public (SSNCT-18)
1. Bridge Creek (Blanchard, OK)
2. Byron (Byron, IL)
3. Camp Hill (Camp Hill, PA; VSS)
4. Cloverleaf A (Lodi, OH)
5. Cooperstown (Cooperstown, NY; VSS)
6. Danville (Danville, KY)
7. Glasgow A (Glasgow, KY)
8. Hallsville (Hallsville, MO; VSS)
9. Huntingdon A (Huntingdon, PA)
10. Itawamba Agricultural A (Fulton, MS)
11. Itawamba Agricultural B (Fulton, MS)
12. Lakeland (Scott Township, PA)
13. Louisiana (Louisiana, MO; VSS)
14. Macomb (Macomb, IL)
15. Moberly (Moberly, MO)
16. Ottawa Hills A (Toledo, OH; VSS)
17. Raceland-Worthington (Raceland, KY; VSS)
18. Russell A (Russell, KY)
19. Russell B (Russell, KY)
20. Southwestern A (Piasa, IL)
21. West Point A (Cullman, AL)
22. Williamsville (Williamsville, IL)

Open (SSNCT-18)
1. BASIS Chandler A (Chandler, AZ)
2. BASIS Scottsdale A (Scottsdale, AZ)
3. BASIS Scottsdale B (Scottsdale, AZ)
4. Blake (Minneapolis, MN)
5. Early College at Guilford (Greensboro, NC)
6. Emma Willard (Troy, NY)
7. Friends Select (Philadelphia, PA)
8. Greenhill (Addison, TX)
9. Latin School A (Chicago, IL)
10. Latin School B (Chicago, IL)
11. Miami Valley A (Dayton, OH)
12. Parish Episcopal (Dallas, TX)
13. St. Mark's School of Texas A (Dallas, TX)
14. St. Mark's School of Texas B (Dallas, TX)
15. St. Martin's Episcopal (Metairie, LA)
16. University Lab (Urbana, IL)
17. Weber School (Atlanta, GA)
18. Winchester Thurston (Pittsburgh, PA)

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:11 pm
by Illinois Admin
So my first impression is that after Glasgow, the trio of central Illinois teams, Louisiana, and Hallsville are probably the next best squads.

In Open, without John John on Miami Valley, Early College is probably an even stronger favorite than before. Best shot to take the title from them is probably Uni Lab but like Glasgow in the traditional division, betting against EC seems unwise.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:14 pm
by tksaleija
Illinois Admin wrote:So my first impression is that after Glasgow, the trio of central Illinois teams, Louisiana, and Hallsville are probably the next best squads.

In Open, without John John on Miami Valley, Early College is probably an even stronger favorite than before. Best shot to take the title from them is probably Uni Lab but like Glasgow in the traditional division, betting against EC seems unwise.
Are you saying John John isn't attending SSNCT?

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm
by Illinois Admin
tksaleija wrote:
Illinois Admin wrote:So my first impression is that after Glasgow, the trio of central Illinois teams, Louisiana, and Hallsville are probably the next best squads.

In Open, without John John on Miami Valley, Early College is probably an even stronger favorite than before. Best shot to take the title from them is probably Uni Lab but like Glasgow in the traditional division, betting against EC seems unwise.
Are you saying John John isn't attending SSNCT?
Yes, but so did John John about 3 posts up.
Two Headed Beast wrote:Unfortunately, I will not be attending due to the conflict with NHBB...

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pm
by tksaleija
Illinois Admin wrote:
tksaleija wrote:
Illinois Admin wrote:So my first impression is that after Glasgow, the trio of central Illinois teams, Louisiana, and Hallsville are probably the next best squads.

In Open, without John John on Miami Valley, Early College is probably an even stronger favorite than before. Best shot to take the title from them is probably Uni Lab but like Glasgow in the traditional division, betting against EC seems unwise.
Are you saying John John isn't attending SSNCT?
Yes, but so did John John about 3 posts up.
Two Headed Beast wrote:Unfortunately, I will not be attending due to the conflict with NHBB...
Whoops, totally skimmed over that when eyeing the rankings below it. Thanks.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:35 am
by Antrobus63
From one small school to all the other small schools: best of luck to you all!

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:42 am
by Jsimmons54
Since we are a week away from SSNCT, any last minute thoughts about the tournament?

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:26 pm
by tksaleija
Yeah: wondering what the format is because that hasn't been posted yet and it's a week away.

More seriously, I'm interested to see MVS's performance with just William. I think they'll do stellar, I just want to see how much better he'll do individually. I'm also really interested to see ECaG play and ask how they practice (given they're a middle/early college like my school).

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:48 am
by CuChulainsSixthToe
tksaleija wrote:Yeah: wondering what the format is because that hasn't been posted yet and it's a week away.

More seriously, I'm interested to see MVS's performance with just William. I think they'll do stellar, I just want to see how much better he'll do individually. I'm also really interested to see ECaG play and ask how they practice (given they're a middle/early college like my school).
I’m assuming, at least from experience in the public division, the prelims will be card matches to figure out seeding for the second day, where your card determines your seed.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:51 am
by Important Bird Area
tksaleija wrote:Yeah: wondering what the format is because that hasn't been posted yet and it's a week away.
Format details for the 2018 SSNCT are now available on naqt.com.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:56 am
by tksaleija
I am officially very excited.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:22 am
by tksaleija
Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea what the min/max number of 6-4+ records for the open bracket (61 teams)?

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:54 am
by jonah
tksaleija wrote:Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea what the min/max number of 6-4+ records for the open bracket (61 teams)?
From 64 teams, there will be 21 to 26 playoff teams, most likely 24.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:17 am
by CuChulainsSixthToe
Since SSNCT is a couple days a way, anyone have any thoughts on teams? Don't want to be the only one to have some input.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:34 pm
by MahoningQuizBowler
Ohio will be represented by 24 teams (possibly 27 if the standbys clear) in the public class and 7 in the open.

Once again, the line is led by Ottawa Hills, but this time they will have company. Cloverleaf, which lost enough enrollment to get under the bar this year, went 5-5 at last year's HSNCT and have done quite well in their many regular season events. Ottawa Hills doesn't play as many, but they always up their game at this stage. I believe they can win the VSS title, though it certainly won't be easy, and both teams have an outside chance to win the whole thing, depending on how the other favorites are drawn against each other and other variables. Both B teams from these schools can make the playoffs as well, though Ottawa Hills is more likely than Cloverleaf, I believe.

Behind them are Black River, winners of the inaugural NAQT Ohio Small School State Championship this season, led by Jason who played on Ohio B at NASAT last year; Ben Logan A, who finished in the trophy places in 2017; Beachwood, who never play enough for my liking but are always capable of winning games; and Pettisville, in their debut season playing tossup-bonus, who have improved constantly throughout the year and own head-to-head wins against fellow participants Swanton, Evergreen, and Maumee Valley on IS sets.

Smithville could be among that group if they can finally break the mental block that has seen them approach the playoffs each time they've attended, only to lose the match they need to get in (and, more often than not, I've read that match).

Behind them are Evergreen, playoff qualifiers last year; Mohawk, which had a Rising Star award winner at last year's tournament; Maplewood, top 12 in 2015; and Riverdale, that boasts one playoff appearance prior to the creation of SSNCT. Of these, I would pick Maplewood to make the most impact, followed by Riverdale.

Chippewa, Clinton-Massie, Greenfield McClain, and Streetsboro are returning. Clermont Northeastern, Colonel Crawford, Rootstown, and Wellsville are making their national debuts. All should win games; the one I would pick to make a run at reaching the playoffs from this group would be Rootstown.

In the open division, Miami Valley has been discussed at length. Maumee Valley and Toledo Arts go under the radar at others' peril. Both averaged over 300 ppg (24 tossup games) on IS sets in the Toledo League. Maumee Valley posted 15 ppb, TS4A hit 17. Western Reserve Academy has less experience, but they ran Cloverleaf close at Solon and posted good numbers against lower-ranked teams in both of their leagues. Bowling Green Christian Academy is playing their second-ever NAQT tournament.

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:23 pm
by username_crisis_averted
inb4 Williamsville wins nats

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:16 pm
by tksaleija
Since I presume discussion on this has reached a close, I just want to wish everyone good luck! I'm looking forward to meeting people and competing against you. I'll see you all in a day or so :)

Re: 2018 SSNCT Pre-Nats Discussion

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:48 am
by Chromica
A liar wrote:I will be posting my own Small-School exclusive thoughts on the upcoming season in a soon-to-be-published thread...
A really big liar wrote:On another note, I've got a list of 22 Public and 18 Open division schools that I'll probably pare down to 15 and 10, respectively, to give a closer look to, and perhaps make predictions about. Hopefully I'll have that ready by next weekend.
Welp, it's fantastically, unbelievably late, but alas, here it is, albeit in a slightly different form. Twelve Public Division and 7 Open Division schools. Just a note, these are not predicted finishes, but rather a personal ranking, so cue the usual fare with regards to fact-checked-but-opinion-based polls. Some calls were exceptionally hard, especially with some teams not playing many tournaments, inconsistent/incomplete rosters throughout the season, and teams missing players for nationals. However, if you, for whatever reason, have any comments or concerns as of this metaphorically late hour, please let me know. And of course, good luck to every team in Chicago, and have fun!

Traditional Public:
1. Glasgow A (Glasgow, KY)
2. Southwestern A (Piasa, IL)
3. Ottawa Hills A (Toledo, OH; VSS)
4. Hallsville (Hallsville, MO; VSS)
5. Macomb (Macomb, IL)
6. Williamsville (Williamsville, IL)
7. Russell A (Russell, KY)
8. Raceland-Worthington (Raceland, KY; VSS)
9. West Point A (Cullman, AL)
10. Cloverleaf A (Lodi, OH)
11. Cooperstown (Cooperstown, NY; VSS)
12. Louisiana (Louisiana, MO; VSS)

Open:
1. Early College at Guilford (Greensboro, NC)
2. University Lab (Urbana, IL)
3. Miami Valley A (Dayton, OH)
4. St. Mark's School of Texas A (Dallas, TX)
5. Friends Select (Philadelphia, PA)
6. Latin School A (Chicago, IL)
7. St. Martin's Episcopal (Metairie, LA)