Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:46 pm

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:When is the last time Chicago Open ended before 10 PM? What steps are being put into place to ensure that CO won't be broken up by the police?
So to further procrastinate on writing my part of the packet, have the editors addressed this concern at all? Are there any special provisions that will be in place this year to ensure timeliness of the tournament? I don't think a round robin formatted CO of the current era has ever finished by 10 PM, so we're looking at cutting an hour or so off the usual time.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:18 pm

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:
Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:When is the last time Chicago Open ended before 10 PM? What steps are being put into place to ensure that CO won't be broken up by the police?
So to further procrastinate on writing my part of the packet, have the editors addressed this concern at all? Are there any special provisions that will be in place this year to ensure timeliness of the tournament? I don't think a round robin formatted CO of the current era has ever finished by 10 PM, so we're looking at cutting an hour or so off the usual time.
I am open to centralizing lunch so we can cut 30 minutes off of the time. We can also move registration earlier to like 8:00 or 7:30 AM if people share Bruce's concerns.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:57 pm

I would be all for starting earlier, but I want to make sure this won't be a repeat of the last Ryan CO where that was tried, only to have Ryan decide to hold up the tournament and waste the time of everybody who did the right thing and showed up on time because Andrew Yaphe couldn't be bothered to come until like 9.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:02 pm

Lunch is definitely a black hole into which teams and players disappear, often causing substantial delay. I hope that we can establish some kind of central lunch system, and that the tournament directors will have the iron will to prevent it from being derailed by players who complain that they might have to eat their second or third favorite kind of pizza rather than their dream food.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by eliza.grames » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:I hope that we can establish some kind of central lunch system, and that the tournament directors will have the iron will to prevent it from being derailed by players who complain that they might have to eat their second or third favorite kind of pizza rather than their dream food.
Our team has the legitimate complaint of having two gluten-free members, so we'd probably be somewhat miffed and have to head out for lunch anyways if the only option was centrally-ordered pizza.

EDIT: I assume there are other teams that would have the same objection or that have lactose-free team members.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Susan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:47 pm

eliza.grames wrote:
Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:I hope that we can establish some kind of central lunch system, and that the tournament directors will have the iron will to prevent it from being derailed by players who complain that they might have to eat their second or third favorite kind of pizza rather than their dream food.
Our team has the legitimate complaint of having two gluten-free members, so we'd probably be somewhat miffed and have to head out for lunch anyways if the only option was centrally-ordered pizza.

EDIT: I assume there are other teams that would have the same objection or that have lactose-free team members.
These aren't insurmountable issues for ordering pizza; several of the pizza places I used when ordering pizza for Chicago tournaments (Lou Malnati's, Domino's) will make gluten-free pizza, and usually ordering cheeseless pizza is not a huge deal. Anyway, if you guys do what we did in 2008 (order food for those who want it, everyone gets half an hour whether they've ordered food or not) this does permit people to go get food if they're willing to drive and get a sandwich take-out or something similarly speedy.

ETA that Giordano's actually doesn't have gluten-free pizza on their menu yet but is adding it this summer, according to their website.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Cheynem » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:51 pm

One of my fondest CO memories is going with Kurtis and Libo on our bye to pick up food for two Michigan teams, but finding the restaurant we wanted to go to closed, so we ad-libbed a trip to Subway where Kurtis drove the car around the block several times as I ran in and ordered turkey sandwiches for everyone. Despite all of that, we returned to the tournament to find they weren't even close to being done with our bye round.

Edit: My point of the anecdote is that you can get food quickly if you need to. As Susan points out, teams can even just order food on their own (we did that once too). I am very much in favor of a shorter lunch break.

I also will note that my perception is that lunch for CO Trash always seemed to go much quicker for whatever reason.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:07 pm

Some teams will invariably take "thirty minutes to grab lunch" to mean "saunter over to another corner of Hyde Park, stand in line for a popular restaurant at peak hour, then slowly eat the food before walking back at an even slower pace". But having pizza as a standard option will reduce the number of teams that decide to do this, perhaps down to a size so small that the TD will have no issue forcing them to forfeit games if they don't come back in time. People could also pre-organize trips: if there are n people with vans or SUVs, we can have n trips to n different restaurants, as diverse from each other as possible.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:13 pm

I for one would support an ironclad-start-time policy. But more to the point, is there a reason we must have a full-field round robin? I guess the seeding would be kind of arbitrary, but I don't have a problem with two prelim brackets, a re-bracketing, and playoffs, amounting to less than sixteen rounds of very hard quizbowl.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:22 pm

This is ultimately Ryan's call, but I am fully capable of adhering to a strict start time (see COLT last year, where we started the tournament without Weiner's team).

Regarding round robins, the sentiment in the past has been that people want to play everyone else, but maybe that's changed.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:Regarding round robins, the sentiment in the past has been that people want to play everyone else, but maybe that's changed.
My own feeling, FWIW, is that it would be worse to pretend to have everyone play everyone but then get chucked out by the jackbooted thugs of the reaction, esp. if that would prevent the final from being played in full.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Susan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:30 pm

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:Some teams will invariably take "thirty minutes to grab lunch" to mean "saunter over to another corner of Hyde Park, stand in line for a popular restaurant at peak hour, then slowly eat the food before walking back at an even slower pace". But having pizza as a standard option will reduce the number of teams that decide to do this, perhaps down to a size so small that the TD will have no issue forcing them to forfeit games if they don't come back in time. People could also pre-organize trips: if there are n people with vans or SUVs, we can have n trips to n different restaurants, as diverse from each other as possible.
I think complicated solutions to simple problems are probably not in order here. Order pizza, accommodate everyone you can, and those who can't or don't want to have it are fully capable of getting food elsewhere in Hyde Park in half an hour (as Mike has illustrated). Again, in 2008 I think this ran very smoothly and I don't remember lunch spiraling out of control timewise, even though a significant minority of people opted out of pizza. If the TDs are willing to enforce a short lunch time, as it sounds like Mike Bentley is, this should work fine.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Matt Weiner » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:57 pm

Tees-Exe Line wrote:I for one would support an ironclad-start-time policy. But more to the point, is there a reason we must have a full-field round robin? I guess the seeding would be kind of arbitrary, but I don't have a problem with two prelim brackets, a re-bracketing, and playoffs, amounting to less than sixteen rounds of very hard quizbowl.
I seem to recall having this exact discussion in 2008, coming up with the exact solution, dragging myself to the Chicago campus in time for the announced 7:30 AM dropdead start, then being told by Ryan that we weren't starting because Yaphe's team wasn't there and "I'm not going to forfeit them, I'm Ryan 'No Rules' Westbrook." So unless Mike and Ryan are going to have some sort of boxing match to determine who has the authority to forfeit teams, I doubt this is going to work.

Can we maybe just start at a normal time, coordinate the quick lunch, not do some of the stupid time-wasting things that go on at CO like have people run around the halls taking signups for their side events or taking 45 minutes to read games when the same people can read regular-season events in half an hour, and finish on time without compromising the delightful full round robin experience? I will also try to bring some SVBZs and a battery in case we need to have the final on the steps of the Linnaeus statue again. No guarantees about playing by Chris Ray's proposed ACF/QBert hybrid rules.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Susan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:08 pm

Speaking of things that make tournaments run faster, what is the staffing situation for CO?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:22 pm

Matt and Susan's posts immediately preceding this one suggest the key to getting this done in twelve hours: keeping the matches to about 40 minutes, which shouldn't be difficult if everyone's on board. One of the pleasures of Chicago for players like myself, who only get to play once a year outside my home area, is the social aspect. But if we can keep that out of the matches, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to hew to about 35 minutes a round, with the requisite 5-8 minutes between rounds.

Obviously I know nothing of staffing, but I certainly would expect that every team should be willing to staff on their bye, which would mean that only 4-5 full-time moderators should be necessary, right?

PS--I'm willing to bring some small snacks to throw on a hallway table to forestall total glycogen depletion at 8:45 pm.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by No Rules Westbrook » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:35 pm

I'm open to any reasonable suggestions here, guys. If someone other than me could take point on working out a feasible lunch plan, please go to town - we should figure out a way to make sure people get 30 minutes and don't take any more, or they have to eat their sub while answering tossups on lesser known authors of Oceania.

I think it makes a lot of sense to run a full Round Robin for CO, but if it's obvious that time is becoming a problem (it's 7:00 and we have 4 regualr rounds left) - I can make an emergency exit plan where we skip straight to the rounds that will obviously decide the tournament, and then have the Finals.

Once the tournament actually starts, I tend to run pretty quick tournaments (assuming I have staff - do I have staff - who the hell is staffing this?).

That said, no, I'm not going to default the best team in my tournament and tell them "sorry, your chances of winning CO are pretty much sunk" because they're 20 minutes late. I'll defend that decision all day long. Weiner may be fine with his tournaments being decided on fluke technicalities because "rules are rules", but I'm not.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:27 pm

I will handle the lunch orders.

Additionally, I have added a staff column to the roster spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... FMUE#gid=0). Please put your name there if you are interested in staffing this tournament.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:25 pm

Is anyone interested in splitting a hotel on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights (or some of those nights)? I'm also interested in splitting up costs for a rental car.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by mhayes » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:41 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:Is anyone interested in splitting a hotel on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights (or some of those nights)?
I'm game for Saturday night.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Great Bustard » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:55 am

NHBB has just decided to unofficially sponsor this, meaning:
a) I'll staff
b) I'll bring my chocolate chip cookies
c) I'll pay $400 for lunch, which should cover two slices of pizza and soda for everyone, plus a few extra slices here and there
d) I can bring as many buzzers as people want (up to 10 systems) if that makes things easier for the directors

Sound good? Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help (e.g. helping to edit history, geography, or current events)
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by No Rules Westbrook » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:13 pm

Look, if there's some feud to be had, can't it be done elsewhere?

This is an excellent idea; the Forbidden Zone would be a good venue for such posts --Mgmt.

If David's willing to pay for everyone's lunch, that's certainly a nice offer, and I'm sure almost everyone would be grateful for it. As for how we're doing on the buzzer front for the tourney - I don't know - Mike Bentley, how are we doing on the buzzer front?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:27 pm

No Rules Westbrook wrote:As for how we're doing on the buzzer front for the tourney - I don't know - Mike Bentley, how are we doing on the buzzer front?
I haven't solicited buzzer requests, so as far as I know we have 0 teams currently bring buzzers. Thus, if it's easy for Dave to bring all 10 of them, that would make life simpler for everyone. Thanks Dave.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:37 pm

No Rules Westbrook wrote:Chicago Open 2012: Look, if there's some feud to be had, can't it be done elsewhere?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by No Rules Westbrook » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:55 pm

For the record, 16 teams will be playing at any one time, so we'll need a total of 8 buzzers.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Great Bustard » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:36 pm

Okay, I'll bring 10-12 systems, so that there a few there for backup, though I just tested all our buzzers last week, so everything should be fine.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:41 pm

nationalhistorybeeandbowl wrote:Okay, I'll bring 10-12 systems, so that there a few there for backup, though I just tested all our buzzers last week, so everything should be fine.
Right, this was my intention with the 10 number--having a few backups is always preferable.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Hey kids, send those packets to Ryan and me (CryoBristow@aol.com and bentley.michael.j@gmail.com) by tomorrow night.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Cheynem » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:37 pm

Did you confirm with Ryan that you have received our full packet?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Cheynem wrote:Did you confirm with Ryan that you have received our full packet?
Yes, we have your full packet now.

I'll post a packet update tomorrow or Thursday.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Cheynem » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:06 pm

YAAAY
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 am

Packet update (as of 7/13/12):

The following teams have submitted full packets:
Droge et al
Grames et al
Cheyne et al
Teitler et al
Gupta et al
Orth et al (although I think there's like 1/1 math missing)
Weinreich et al
McKendy et al
Mukherjee et al
Carson et al
Hoppes et al
Bailey et al
Larsen et al
Borglum et al

The following teams have submitted partial packets:
Busse et al (Kevin still needs to submit)
Butler et al (Magin, Jerry and Bruce I think each have a couple of questions left)
Lee et al (Ashvin still needs to submit)

If you have not submitted your questions yet, please get them in as soon as possible.

If there are any errors in this list, please let me know. I imagine the most common error will involve you having sent your packet only to Ryan. Make sure you've also sent the packet to me (bentley.michael.j@gmail.com) in order to get credit for your submission.
Last edited by Mike Bentley on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by theMoMA » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:10 pm

Jeff, Gautam, and I are looking for a fourth player. Email me if you're interested (limozeen@gmail.com). You'd have to pay but we've got the writing taken care of. Thanks!
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Cheynem » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:23 pm

My team of David Seal, myself, and Andrew Ullsperger is tentatively looking for a fourth player (we've put in some inquiries but don't have anything concrete yet). The packet is completely written but you will have to pay. My e-mail address is in my profile or you can send me a message on the boards.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:19 pm

I want to renew the announcement of the CO barbecue to be held on Friday, July 20th at my place (see previous comment for logistical details: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13021&start=0#p242482). I've had conversations with a number of people that were predicated on the assumption that they would attend; however, precious few have actually RSVPed, which entails writing me an email (msteinbaum at gmail) saying that you're coming. If you think I already know that you're coming but your name isn't "Seth Teitler" or "Andrew Ullsperger," please go ahead and send such an email.

Late arrivals are welcome; if attendance is contingent on logistical smoothness that day, just say so in your RSVP.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Birdofredum Sawin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:53 pm

Horned Screamer wrote:I would be all for starting earlier, but I want to make sure this won't be a repeat of the last Ryan CO where that was tried, only to have Ryan decide to hold up the tournament and waste the time of everybody who did the right thing and showed up on time because Andrew Yaphe couldn't be bothered to come until like 9.
Having been informed that I had been traduced in this forum, I would like to state for the record that it was Sorice's fault that we were late to that CO!

I would also like to thank Sorice for letting me crash at his house and for driving me to the tournament, albeit late.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Great Bustard » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:52 am

I'm planning on ordering about 25 pizzas (a mix of plain, pepperoni, vegetarian, and sausage) for lunch, with a normal mix of soft drinks. If anyone would like something else for lunch (sandwiches, etc) please just let me know.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:59 pm

Not sure how others feel about this, but I for one would love it if the pizza were not deep dish. Chicago deep dish pizza is good for a slice every few years as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for getting lunch in any case--it's much appreciated.

If other people feel differently, I suppose a decent selection would be acceptable
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:21 pm

I have updated the packet list (see above). Ashvin Srivatsa and Kevin Mallis in particular need to submit questions as soon as possible.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by jsagoff » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:01 pm

Happy to read for this tournament if more moderators are needed.

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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:36 pm

jsagoff wrote:Happy to read for this tournament if more moderators are needed.

--Jared Sagoff
Yes, we could still use some more staffers.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:43 am

FYI, we have one more space open for hotel/car sharing (and probably some more if you only need a hotel for Sunday night). If you're interested, send me an e-mail.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Adventure Temple Trail » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:16 pm

Do we know yet what building we're in? Also, when we should show up there to wait in disgruntled fashion for the last team to come through the door? 8? 9?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Tees-Exe Line » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:54 pm

The tournament will take place in Cobb, which can be seen on this map:

http://maps.uchicago.edu/mainquad/cobbhall.html

I will show up there near 8 AM to open the rooms, set up buzzers, and make sure everything is in order. Since apparently the tournament cannot begin until the last player who has a decent ex-ante chance of winning appears, I anticipate being very angry on Saturday morning. I hope there will be some move to revisit this insane policy.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:33 pm

Registration will be from 8:00-8:30 AM in Cobb (exact room TBA). We are imposing a $40 per team late fee if you arrive later than 8:30 AM. Do your fellow competitors and your wallet a favor and get there with plenty of time to spare. I suspect there may also be a popular revolt if you take the too cool to show up on time approach.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Gautam » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:45 pm

Mike Bentley wrote:Registration will be from 8:00-8:30 AM in Cobb (exact room TBA). We are imposing a $40 per team late fee if you arrive later than 8:30 AM. Do your fellow competitors and your wallet a favor and get there with plenty of time to spare. I suspect there may also be a popular revolt if you take the too cool to show up on time approach.
I hope this plan is forgiving under circumstances like torrential downpours, etc. I'm not sure anybody would be too fond of being penalized if 2010 CO weather made a reappearance.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:51 pm

Long-tailed Sabrewing wrote:
Mike Bentley wrote:Registration will be from 8:00-8:30 AM in Cobb (exact room TBA). We are imposing a $40 per team late fee if you arrive later than 8:30 AM. Do your fellow competitors and your wallet a favor and get there with plenty of time to spare. I suspect there may also be a popular revolt if you take the too cool to show up on time approach.
I hope this plan is forgiving under circumstances like torrential downpours, etc. I'm not sure anybody would be too fond of being penalized if 2010 CO weather made a reappearance.
In the event that there's some legitimate reason why a large number of teams are late (i.e. roads are flooded), this fee will not be charged.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by Mike Bentley » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:31 pm

Two other things:

1. If you're a staffer, please bring a laptop to this tournament. If you're not staffing, laptops would still be appreciated.

2. I've added team/player fees to the roster spreadsheet. If you see something that seems wrong, let me know.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by DumbJaques » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:48 pm

Hey, if anyone is looking to kill some time tomorrow, I'll be in Chicago all day, most likely hanging out in the vicinity of the Loop. My potential slate of activities includes sighing audibly in the presence of Cy Twombly works, narrowly avoiding death in the Dark Knight human stampede on Michigan Ave, and warding off the innumerable throng of beautiful women who constantly assume I'm Seth Rogen whenever I stroll through major cities. If that sounds appealing and neither of us hates the other (or even if we do!), drop me line.
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:14 pm

I've added team/player fees to the roster spreadsheet. If you see something that seems wrong, let me know.
No biggie, but I am not seeing fees on the initial spreadsheet; you do mean the google doc in the original post in this thread, right?
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Re: Chicago Open 2012 - July 21, 2012

Post by women, fire and dangerous things » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:18 pm

ValenciaQBowl wrote:No biggie, but I am not seeing fees on the initial spreadsheet; you do mean the google doc in the original post in this thread, right?
It's in the second tab on the bottom of the spreadsheet.
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