Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

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Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

On account of the unfortunate but necessary cancellation of this year's Intercollegiate Championship Tournament, I'd very much like to have something happen on that Saturday in its place. I'm proposing an Internet Charity Tournament, something of a Festivus event to be held on the same date on Discord, where people read and play packets and/or events contributed by community members.

Basically this tournament will be a bit of a three-week quizbowl hackathon - I'm hoping that a bunch of writers will come out and put together awesome packets on topics they enjoy, be it a general science packet, a modern arts packet, an obscure historical linguistics packet, whatever. Challenging questions are encouraged, as I anticipate that the field for this tournament will be quite strong.

Participants will be encouraged to "pay what you will" for each event you play - suggested donations are $5-10 per event / packet. All payments will go to a designated PayPal and/or Venmo account and, from there, be donated to a specific charity that has done work to mitigate the recent coronavirus outbreak.

I will be contributing a 40-50 tossup packet of extremely hard (CO or CO+) poetry tossups to this tournament.

----

(Edit by mod JP) For easy access to the key information:
This is the list of packets.
This is the schedule of what's when.
Here is the registration form.
Here is the server link.
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Cheynem »

I'm assuming this is completely open, right?
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Cheynem wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:30 am I'm assuming this is completely open, right?
Yeah this would probably be largely a series of shootouts. So I suspect you'd get some of quizbowl's best playing and would want to write your tossups accordingly.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by meebles127 »

I've included a link below for people to express their intent to write packets.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by meebles127 on Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Cheynem »

I don't know if this feasible or warranted, but I might suggest trying to find some way to limit the field caps for each packet--it's not fun to play an online shootout of like 30 people, particularly if a lot of folks are just randomly mass guessing as tends to happen. Something like entrance fees in the form of providing your own packet or providing a donation might help in this regard--I don't know if that's needed, as some Festivus packets get very small fields but I've certainly been in IRC/Discord where there's a ton playing.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Mike Bentley »

Cheynem wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 am I don't know if this feasible or warranted, but I might suggest trying to find some way to limit the field caps for each packet--it's not fun to play an online shootout of like 30 people, particularly if a lot of folks are just randomly mass guessing as tends to happen. Something like entrance fees in the form of providing your own packet or providing a donation might help in this regard--I don't know if that's needed, as some Festivus packets get very small fields but I've certainly been in IRC/Discord where there's a ton playing.
Yeah I find big open shootouts a very suboptimal way to play quizbowl. You're basically playing the best team at an open tournament in every single packet. I'd personally find something like a guerilla team tournament more interesting, but understand why that would be more work to organize.

That being said, I have another Seattle packet mostly done and can read it at the currently announced format.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

I'm planning to run my event twice - one master's event and one event for a wider audience. It's still going to be extremely hard.

EDIT: ignore this, room plan will be coming out soon
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by CPiGuy »

Cheynem wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 am I don't know if this feasible or warranted, but I might suggest trying to find some way to limit the field caps for each packet--it's not fun to play an online shootout of like 30 people, particularly if a lot of folks are just randomly mass guessing as tends to happen. Something like entrance fees in the form of providing your own packet or providing a donation might help in this regard--I don't know if that's needed, as some Festivus packets get very small fields but I've certainly been in IRC/Discord where there's a ton playing.
Another solution would just be to split the Discord reading into multiple rooms (perhaps with a couple volunteer readers for each packet who aren't interested in it).
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

CPiGuy wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:45 pm
Cheynem wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 am I don't know if this feasible or warranted, but I might suggest trying to find some way to limit the field caps for each packet--it's not fun to play an online shootout of like 30 people, particularly if a lot of folks are just randomly mass guessing as tends to happen. Something like entrance fees in the form of providing your own packet or providing a donation might help in this regard--I don't know if that's needed, as some Festivus packets get very small fields but I've certainly been in IRC/Discord where there's a ton playing.
Another solution would just be to split the Discord reading into multiple rooms (perhaps with a couple volunteer readers for each packet who aren't interested in it).
I think this is a good point - we do want to limit crowd sizes, and I'm going to think about what we can do to limit random guessing in order to improve the player experience. A mandatory minimum donation per event would go towards helping with this and also help achieve this set's goal.

EDIT: I think each event would probably require different pricing - I'm planning to charge $5 for mine. I'll work this out with Emily over the next few days, but I think the small fees will help raise money.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

I've added a signup sheet for the poetry tournament. There will be two divisions - a masters division (for the Jordans, Auronis, etc. of the world) and a general interest division (if you don't consider yourself an elite literature player, I recommend this one). This is not intended as an expression of elitism, but rather as a way to optimize the player experience. Be advised, this event is extremely hard.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Ike »

mandatory minimum donation
May I make a recommendation? While I understand the nobility of the charity aspect of this tournament, I think it might be a particularly trying financially for some in a time with a lot of uncertainty (this situation could last for months.) I'd suggest making it so that people can choose to give donations at a later date, even if they play this now.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Emily and I have been working on logistic plans for this event. We anticipate that it's going to be two days long and we'd like to optimize this event experience for everyone. Therefore, we have a couple asks:
  • Writers - If you can confidently say you will finish your packet in time for "ICT" then please put your email on the signup sheet so we can reach out to you about scheduling. Please do this by midnight PST on March 22nd or your packet will NOT be considered for the main event.
  • Players - We will be sending out a survey on March 23rd with all the list of confirmed packets / events for you to indicate your interest in each of them. Please fill this out! We will be using it to inform what events we will run, and in which order. For example, if none of the people interested in Packet A are also interested in Packet B, then we may run those at the same time. We reserve the right to not run events if interest in them is too low.
Participating players will also be able to indicate on the survey whether they would like to donate for this event. Donations will be optional, but highly encouraged. We will also provide information for non-participants to donate and are open to suggestions for appropriate charities doing work that is relevant to COVID-19.

As we optimize the schedule, we anticipate that there may be a need for volunteer moderators for some of the packets if they're to be read in multiple rooms. Please email or PM me if you would be interested in volunteer moderating for this event.

EDIT: Writers, please also include a more concrete description of your packet's subject matter so players can make better informed decisions. We strongly suggest more coherent focuses so it doesn't feel like a parade of vanity. Thanks!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Mike Bentley »

So I'm a little confused. Is this just a big Festivus-type thing where people read independent packets? Or are you trying to keep score across multiple packets? The latter seems pretty untenable to me--is there much of an audience for 2 weekends worth of incredibly hard vanity packets against some of the best people in quizbowl? Whereas dropping in every now and then for a packet on an area you're good at seems more do-able.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Mike Bentley wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:09 pm So I'm a little confused. Is this just a big Festivus-type thing where people read independent packets? Or are you trying to keep score across multiple packets? The latter seems pretty untenable to me--is there much of an audience for 2 weekends worth of incredibly hard vanity packets against some of the best people in quizbowl? Whereas dropping in every now and then for a packet on an area you're good at seems more do-able.
We sure aren't going to keep score across the whole event - I'm not sure if anyone is implying this, but that is certainly not the intention. People are encouraged to report scores for their individual packets, though! This is a Festivus-like fun event, with the goal being to raise some money in the process.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Mike Bentley »

Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:34 pm
Mike Bentley wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:09 pm So I'm a little confused. Is this just a big Festivus-type thing where people read independent packets? Or are you trying to keep score across multiple packets? The latter seems pretty untenable to me--is there much of an audience for 2 weekends worth of incredibly hard vanity packets against some of the best people in quizbowl? Whereas dropping in every now and then for a packet on an area you're good at seems more do-able.
We sure aren't going to keep score across the whole event - I'm not sure if anyone is implying this, but that is certainly not the intention. People are encouraged to report scores for their individual packets, though! This is a Festivus-like fun event, with the goal being to raise some money in the process.
Ok thanks for the clarification, that seems more sensible.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Reminder to please update the spreadsheet today with your email to indicate you plan to finish completing your event! Only events that are "confirmed" in this manner will be included in the survey for player preferences for events. Thanks!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by meebles127 »

I have locked the spreadsheet. Any writers that did not confirm their participation by including their email address on the spreadsheet will not be included in the event. No exceptions will be made.

An email will be sent out to writers this week and a survey will be posted today for players interested in participating in the Internet Charity Tournament.

Additionally, if anyone knows of any charities that are helping to fight against COVID-19 please pass those along to either Will or me.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by meebles127 »

Here is the form to signup to participate as a PLAYER in the 2020 Internet Charity Tournament.

Please note that only the names of writers are included on the form due to space constraints. Please refer to the spreadsheet, which can be found here, for information about the content of packets. Please remember that an indication to participate in an event does not guarantee that the event will occur. We reserve the right to not run events if the interest in them is too low.

As always, feel free to reach out to either Will or me with any questions or concerns.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by t-bar »

meebles127 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:47 pm Here is the form to signup to participate as a PLAYER in the 2020 Internet Charity Tournament.
Should we be able to select multiple packets on the second page? I don't see how to.

EDIT: Better now!
Last edited by t-bar on Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by meebles127 »

t-bar wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:53 pm
meebles127 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:47 pm Here is the form to signup to participate as a PLAYER in the 2020 Internet Charity Tournament.
Should we be able to select multiple packets on the second page? I don't see how to.
This has been fixed.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by Deepika Goes From Ranbir To Ranveer »

Is the registration form intended as a formal commitment to play the selected packets (and you really should play unless something big comes up), or just a "gauging of interest", and it'd be cool to not play some of the selected packets if one gets tired or something.

(affects how aggressively I sign up for things that are only of mild interest to me)
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Deepika Goes From Ranbir To Ranveer wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:33 pm Is the registration form intended as a formal commitment to play the selected packets (and you really should play unless something big comes up), or just a "gauging of interest", and it'd be cool to not play some of the selected packets if one gets tired or something.

(affects how aggressively I sign up for things that are only of mild interest to me)
Use your own discretion, but I would suggest that your response indicate a feeling of "Schedule permitting, I would for sure like to play this."
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th)

Post by meebles127 »

Responses to the player signup form for the Internet Charity Tournament should be done by midnight PST on March 29. Responses are still welcome after this date but those responses will not be incorporated into the planning for this tournament.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by meebles127 »

This is a reminder that if you want your registration to be considered in schedule optimization you must submit the form by midnight pacific time on Sunday, March 29. Registrations after this time will be accepted but will not be considered in schedule optimization.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

On a related note, more than 100 people have filled out the survey so far! Thank you so much - this is a ton of help in figuring out. We've gotten enough interest in most events that there will be at least two rooms for each of the ones which are run!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Thanks for the continuing sign-ups and survey responses!

A note to all writers and players for this tournament: We are going to have multiple reading rooms going simultaneously for most packets in the main event, with players selecting a room based on their self-assessed skill level on the subject material (all of the rooms will be laid out in advance on a schedule spreadsheet). On account of this, I would like to emphasize two points in particular:
  • While we have no expectations for the content of writers' packets, except that they are interesting and well-written questions, writers should note that they will not be the only moderators for their packet - and indeed, may have their packet scheduled at the same time as an event they want to play. As a result, we expect that packets be up to modern tournament standards in terms of alternate answerlines, pronunciation guides, instructions, etc. in order to ensure good player experiences. This is particularly important because there will be no protests as there will be no overall scoring prizes, etc.
  • We expect players to make accurate self-assessments of their skill level for each packet. If you are an elite player at a given subject, you are fully expected to play in the top room rather than actively seeking weaker competition so you can get points. Conversely, if you are a skilled but not super-strong player at a given subject, but would prefer to test yourself against better competition on an ultra-hard academic event, please save this instinct for another event so that we can keep all of the rooms with fairly healthy populations.
Thanks again for your cooperation!
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

A slight amendment to the previous post: Based on some preliminary analysis I've done, I'm fairly confident we are going to be able to run ALL of the events across two days - including those which only have one room (~10 signups or so) of interested people! As of right now, plan for 19 packets to be read on each day.

There will be a lot of "joint scheduling" of events to be run at the same time, with the time slots for each event being selected based on minimal overlap of interest between jointly scheduled events. Based on the data we have, overlaps range from as low as 5% to as high as 80% between different events. No events will be scheduled jointly which have more than 25% overlap of interest.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Schedule is available here. If you're an experienced moderator (several years' modding experience preferred) and are available / aren't interested in the events for a given time slot, please sign up to mod! No pressure to mod for every single event you don't want to play, but reading 1-2 events will help us immensely.

Thank you so much - really excited to make this happen! We'll be reaching out privately to people who indicated they would be interested in donating on the sign-up sheet. If you'd like to donate, please sign up there, even if you don't plan to be available, or contact us privately. Thanks!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by AKKOLADE »

FYI you can't sign up to just be a donor; you have to select at least one session.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by Cheynem »

To confirm, is "Tier 1" the room for the most experienced, best players?
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Cheynem wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:44 am To confirm, is "Tier 1" the room for the most experienced, best players?
For the events with two or three rooms, it's pretty straightforward - sort yourself based on what you think is fair competition for you. Anticipate that the Tier 1 room is going to be stacked with the best players on a given subject area, and if you're one of those, you'd better be there. Tier 2 is generally going to be better for strong players who feel comfortable on the subject matter at harder opens/Nats but wouldn't consider themselves top echelon, and Tier 3 is more for people who are less knowledgeable about the content but interested in the subject/event/writer/etc.

For the events with five rooms, we don't anticipate people to be able to gradate themselves that finely as to whether they're in the third quintile of skill or whatnot. Tier 1 basically remains the same, but we'd suggest just joining either 2 or 3 if you'd put yourself in the middle to upper middle of the skill range on this content (considering the field is very strong) and 4 or 5 if you're less knowledgeable about the content.

Again, we're relying on good faith here - assigning people to rooms would be a total mess that we don't want to have to do and strikes me as unnecessary.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 am FYI you can't sign up to just be a donor; you have to select at least one session.
Oops, good catch. Just sign up for Taylor's packet since that's the most popular and we're running five rooms no matter what 😂 no compulsion to attend!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by jonpin »

So that they don't get lost in the thread, I edited the first post to include links to the list of events, the schedule, and the registration form.
naan/steak-holding toll wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:30 pm
Cheynem wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:44 am To confirm, is "Tier 1" the room for the most experienced, best players?
For the events with two or three rooms, it's pretty straightforward - sort yourself based on what you think is fair competition for you. Anticipate that the Tier 1 room is going to be stacked with the best players on a given subject area, and if you're one of those, you'd better be there. [...]
Again, we're relying on good faith here - assigning people to rooms would be a total mess that we don't want to have to do and strikes me as unnecessary.
I think he was just trying to clarify that 1 was the highest level, as opposed to the lowest level.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Thanks Jon! And re: Mike's post, I figured it would be an opportune moment to offer a fuller explanation.

Mods - if you have specific preferences for events to read in your time slot, please indicate so on the spreadsheet via comments. People writing their own packets can feel free to request to read in specific rooms as well. We'll sort out the rest. Thanks!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by AKKOLADE »

naan/steak-holding toll wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:08 pm
AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 am FYI you can't sign up to just be a donor; you have to select at least one session.
Oops, good catch. Just sign up for Taylor's packet since that's the most popular and we're running five rooms no matter what 😂 no compulsion to attend!
I just hit one, forget which. Just hit me up with donation details and I'll kick in $100.

Similarly, if I find myself unexpectedly able to read a little this weekend, should I just pop in the Discord?
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by meebles127 »

AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:07 pm
naan/steak-holding toll wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:08 pm
AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 am FYI you can't sign up to just be a donor; you have to select at least one session.
Oops, good catch. Just sign up for Taylor's packet since that's the most popular and we're running five rooms no matter what 😂 no compulsion to attend!
I just hit one, forget which. Just hit me up with donation details and I'll kick in $100.

Similarly, if I find myself unexpectedly able to read a little this weekend, should I just pop in the Discord?
There's a spreadsheet to sign up to read in the time slots you'd like to read for
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:07 pm
naan/steak-holding toll wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:08 pm
AKKOLADE wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 am FYI you can't sign up to just be a donor; you have to select at least one session.
Oops, good catch. Just sign up for Taylor's packet since that's the most popular and we're running five rooms no matter what 😂 no compulsion to attend!
I just hit one, forget which. Just hit me up with donation details and I'll kick in $100.

Similarly, if I find myself unexpectedly able to read a little this weekend, should I just pop in the Discord?
Feel free! More volunteers are always welcome.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by The Story of a Head That Fell Off »

Is this be going to run all on the same Discord? I'm assuming that's the case - how will you handle preventing people from seeing other rooms?

Assuming this isn't operating on some honor system, you will need to create specific roles with permissions for each room and for each packet, which would be extremely tedious for so many rooms/events. Since there is no teams, you will need to manually tag each person, and sort each person in the right tiers before the round starts! This sounds pretty Herculean, so I hope there's staff willing to tag all the people, or you have a more efficient model in mind.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

The Story of a Head That Fell Off wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 am Is this be going to run all on the same Discord? I'm assuming that's the case - how will you handle preventing people from seeing other rooms?

Assuming this isn't operating on some honor system, you will need to create specific roles with permissions for each room and for each packet, which would be extremely tedious for so many rooms/events. Since there is no teams, you will need to manually tag each person, and sort each person in the right tiers before the round starts! This sounds pretty Herculean, so I hope there's staff willing to tag all the people, or you have a more efficient model in mind.
You are certainly correct that this is an issue, and we are indeed working on figuring out a less onerous solution. I'm talking with some other folks about figuring this out and we'll post an update.

To anyone thinking about cheating: There are hundreds of people playing this event, and the eyes of many many other players will be on you. I will not be waving around cheating accusations lightly, but given the numerous precedents of people cheating at online tournaments (including some that I have run before, to my dismay) I'm going to be on high alert throughout this event and will initiate investigations as appropriate. If you need to cheat to win an online charity packet to boost your ego, you're a fucking loser and should feel ashamed of yourself.

One other thing: writers, please send an email with a Microsoft Word document of your packets to egunter127 [at] gmail [dot] com by 8AM EST on the day it's scheduled to be read for ICT at the ABSOLUTE LATEST. Sending your packet earlier is strongly encouraged, but if you need the extra time we can make that work.

EDIT: Changed recipient email for packets. Might as well make sure there's no implications of impropriety on my part either :smile:
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

I foolishly forgot to add Doug Graebner's packet - he's now at the end of Day 1.
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by CPiGuy »

The Story of a Head That Fell Off wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 am Assuming this isn't operating on some honor system, you will need to create specific roles with permissions for each room and for each packet, which would be extremely tedious for so many rooms/events. Since there is no teams, you will need to manually tag each person, and sort each person in the right tiers before the round starts! This sounds pretty Herculean, so I hope there's staff willing to tag all the people, or you have a more efficient model in mind.
There are bots that allow you to do things like post messages such that anyone who reacts to the message with a specific reaction will receive a specific role. You could create a channel with such messages for every tier of every packet.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by meebles127 »

The Story of a Head That Fell Off wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 am Is this be going to run all on the same Discord? I'm assuming that's the case - how will you handle preventing people from seeing other rooms?

Assuming this isn't operating on some honor system, you will need to create specific roles with permissions for each room and for each packet, which would be extremely tedious for so many rooms/events. Since there is no teams, you will need to manually tag each person, and sort each person in the right tiers before the round starts! This sounds pretty Herculean, so I hope there's staff willing to tag all the people, or you have a more efficient model in mind.
This has been taken care of. There is a channel where people will be able to react to a message with the room they'll be playing in. Because of the way the bot is configured it is impossible to have more than one role at any given time. Each role allows you to view the text and voice channel for the corresponding room but not any other.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by meebles127 »

Here's the link to join the Discord server for this weekend's Internet Charity Tournament.

https://discord.gg/SmE75W8
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by The Story of a Head That Fell Off »

meebles127 wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:38 pm
The Story of a Head That Fell Off wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:03 am Is this be going to run all on the same Discord? I'm assuming that's the case - how will you handle preventing people from seeing other rooms?

Assuming this isn't operating on some honor system, you will need to create specific roles with permissions for each room and for each packet, which would be extremely tedious for so many rooms/events. Since there is no teams, you will need to manually tag each person, and sort each person in the right tiers before the round starts! This sounds pretty Herculean, so I hope there's staff willing to tag all the people, or you have a more efficient model in mind.
This has been taken care of. There is a channel where people will be able to react to a message with the room they'll be playing in. Because of the way the bot is configured it is impossible to have more than one role at any given time. Each role allows you to view the text and voice channel for the corresponding room but not any other.
Thank you, that's a much better solution!
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

Is there an outlined response to possible instances of cheating for this tournament? Given that this is the first very large, open, semi-cloutworthy tournament that will be hosted online, the temptation to cheat seems high to me given the lackluster response to cheating at the Terrapin Open discord mirror exhibited and the (imo justified) suspicion that a significant plurality of players cheat at online tournaments. A number which Catherine’s quizpolling poll seems to place at just over 27% of players (although this may not be the actual number, this is a good representation of how suspicious folks are of online tournaments and shouldn’t be thrown out for this reason). This high prevalence of cheating, or at least the appearance of it, will continue to preclude players from wanting to pay, participate, and contribute to online tournaments in my opinion. In light of this, does the tournament direction team have a method for anonymous accusation of cheating and an outlined response method they can make public in the case that someone is caught cheating? I believe this would help ease valid fears that there will be many cheaters participating this weekend.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by CPiGuy »

This tournament actually seems to present less motivation to cheat than other online tournaments, given its rather fragmented/decentralized nature, the lack of overall stats, and the fact that players will generally only be playing packets on things they're strongly interested in.

I think Will has made a statement about cheating and generally trust the TDs to deal with it quickly if it's suspected.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by meebles127 »

Just a few notes:

We're still in need of readers in some spaces, please consider signing up for a few packets!

Please send me your packet by 8 AM Eastern on the day it will be read. Please email this to egunter127 AT Gmail DOT com
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by Iain.Carpenter »

CPiGuy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:10 pm I think Will has made a statement about cheating and generally trust the TDs to deal with it quickly if it's suspected.
I also trust the TDs and think they are well equipped to deal with cheating, but having a planned response that actually explains the direct consequences one will face for cheating is still a good idea so that we don’t end up in closed door whispers of suspected cheating like we have now, especially given that the response has so often been mere warnings despite repeated accusations of cheating. Having an actual response rather than vague threats will preclude players from cheating much more than a general statement and the historical weakness of the consequences of getting caught cheating. Moreover, there is nothing to lose in creating a system for accusing folks of cheating and defining a response; in fact, i would think that raising public trust in online quizbowl would stoke more participation in it.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by Mike Bentley »

I've never really understood the psychology of people who cheat in quizbowl / games in general but this particular tournament seems like a weird one to cheat in. There are different divisions, I doubt a lot of really close statkeeping will be taken, records don't accumulate over rounds.
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Re: Internet Charity Tournament (April 4th, 5th)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Iain.Carpenter wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:39 pm
CPiGuy wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:10 pm I think Will has made a statement about cheating and generally trust the TDs to deal with it quickly if it's suspected.
I also trust the TDs and think they are well equipped to deal with cheating, but having a planned response that actually explains the direct consequences one will face for cheating is still a good idea so that we don’t end up in closed door whispers of suspected cheating like we have now, especially given that the response has so often been mere warnings despite repeated accusations of cheating. Having an actual response rather than vague threats will preclude players from cheating much more than a general statement and the historical weakness of the consequences of getting caught cheating. Moreover, there is nothing to lose in creating a system for accusing folks of cheating and defining a response; in fact, i would think that raising public trust in online quizbowl would stoke more participation in it.
Look, as one of the people who posted in that thread, I'm every bit as concerned about cheating as anyone else. At this point I'm not going to either a) set up a mini-Inquisition to monitor people while I'm playing this event that I've already worked my ass off to put together, or b) impose some sort of not-previously-announced modification to requirements in order to play, which may have a severe negative impact on the total number of participants and total donations we receive on account of the short time frame in which the decision was made.

This being said, there will be two available procedures to kick people from rooms during a game:
  • Mods are allowed to kick people from rooms at any time - they should inform Emily and myself if they do so and explain why they kicked a player from their room.
  • If a player is being obnoxious, suspected of cheating, etc. then any three players in a room may initiate a vote to kick them. The player will be kicked if a two-thirds majority of players, rounded down, votes to remove them; mods will not vote in these procedures. The mod should then report this to Emily and myself.
Any player who is kicked twice, for whatever reason, will be banned from the rest of the tournament unless an adequate explanation is offered to myself and Emily. We will publicly name all such banned people and recommend that other organizers of online tournaments ban these people as well if they do not make public penance, and will recommend a permanent ban if they are caught cheating.

EDIT: In addition, all players are required to be in only one room throughout the entire reading of an event, i.e. once the mod has started reading an event, you can't switch to another room. (You can obviously still switch rooms between different events, though). This is to prevent players from listening to one room which goes ahead of another, then switching rooms and exploiting the information they heard. Any player who does this once will be kicked and forced to sit out the round, unless it's a technical issue, and anyone who does it twice will be banned from the rest of the event unless they successfully appeal to myself and Emily.
Mike Bentley wrote:I doubt a lot of really close statkeeping will be taken, records don't accumulate over rounds.
A centralized scoresheet will be available for each room and will keep track of stats.
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