The Geography Front

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When should Chicago Open side event The Geography Front be held?

Friday, August 20, 2021
3
38%
Monday, August 23, 2021
5
63%
 
Total votes: 8

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castrioti
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The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

All--

The Geography Front is complete and ready to play. Provided the Chicago Open time space isn't too crowded (I see two other side events), I would like to run this tournament as yet another side event. I am seeking staffers, and will buy you lunch should you decide to moderate this tournament. The date will be announced pending the finalization of that fine event.

The tournament has 562 tossups across 17 packets. I plan to write 38 extras to replace those used for the exhibition packet (but they will still be used as replacements if needed). Each packet consists of 30 tossups and 3 tiebreakers. Most of the tossups have some extra-disciplinary clues as was requested in the past. 75% of the clues come from physical, political and human geography

The distribution of the extra-disciplinary clues as they relate to geography is as follows:

230 Social Science (Archaeology, Anthropology, Economics, Linguistics)
188 History
152 Science (Earth, Life, Physical)
107 Fine Arts (Painting, Music, Architecture, Sculpture, Film)
106 RPM - (mostly Religion and Mythology)
50 Literature

An example packet has been posted to the packet archive. Most of the questions will be like this, with a few of the above mentioned extra-disciplinary clues thrown in.

The difficulty of the average packet breaks down as

7.5 answer lines that would be appropriate for ACF Fall
10.6 at the ACF Regionals level
8.5 at the ACF Nationals level
6.4 expansive (to my knowledge, this hasn't ever been a tossup before in a collegiate level packet submission tournament)

This will be a singles event unless interest for it is astronomical, then we'll talk about doubles. I will add a sign-up / interest sheet once dates are finalized.
Last edited by castrioti on Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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Mike Bentley
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by Mike Bentley »

I don't think this tournament as planned is a good idea.

I don't see any way that you're going to be able to fit 562 tossups into a CO side event slot. For comparison, Scattergories 3 was 240 questions. Looking at my recordings, each match of 24 questions was about 20 minutes. So figure closer to 25 minutes accounting for room switching and rooms getting behind. At a generous rate of 1.2 questions per minute, this is nearly 8 hours to play the whole set.

I can't imagine the demand for this tournament as written is so high to basically take all of the Sunday slot. Instead, I'd suggest to either:
1. Cut down the number of questions dramatically (perhaps by sacrificing most of the difficulty ones). Maybe save the cut ones for some online shootout.
2. Pitch this to diehards who want to do it on Monday or obscenely late into the night on Friday.
3. Just run it online over two days. Although I strongly suspect you're going to have trouble getting people to commit to this.

Edit: I guess if it's one giant shootout as a singles event it would go faster, but even still I think this is too much. Maybe you can find an audience for one room of this on CO Sunday as people otherwise play other events.
Mike Bentley
VP of Editing, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

I can't imagine the demand for this tournament as written is so high to basically take all of the Sunday slot.
No, and I do not expect it to. I don't want to push aside or compete with other events, as the CO weekend has always been about playing as much quality quiz bowl as possible. As others have previously suggested, I see this taking place the Friday before the tournament. Monday seems like it would be harder for folks to do, but whatever, if that's what people want to do.

As far as the demand crunch or space crunch at CO per se, I don't know, we'll see, I won't speak for it, and I won't force it. As far as "diehards" wanting to play at odd times, I think CO attracts some of the finest collection of diehard academic players in the world, and I wouldn't mind one bit catering to them. That said, the value of this tournament is its coverage, focus and depth, but also breadth which is designed to cater to people at a lot of different skill levels. I refuse to sacrifice these values for a venue, even if that venue is CO, and I'd rather not split it up. Let's see what the demand actually is and make the decision then, go or no go before assuming it won't work. It is ready for anyone who will have it, whenever / wherever / whomever that might be. If demand for it exists at CO with space for everything else going on, great. If not, we'll find another way.

Wesley
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

All,

As previously suggested, pending sufficient interest, this round robin singles tournament will likely be run on Friday, August 20, 2021 or Monday, August 23 as a side event to the Chicago Open. Please vote on your preference with the knowledge that I expect it to last about 12 hours (something like: 8AM-8PM). The entry fee will be $25. I will announce the final date on Monday, June 7. If you are interested, please send me a private message on this site with your contact information.

I will consider 10 players a quorum. Should registration exceed 16 players, we will need to consider changing the format of the tournament to avoid using too many rooms (that would likely entail either making this a doubles tournament or reconfiguring to seeding rounds + double elimination or something along those lines). I will consider mirrors if teams are interested in holding them.

We cannot run tournaments without buzzers and moderators, so I am looking for a minimum of 8 game officials. Whether you are a prospective player or moderator, please indicate whether you are able to bring a working buzzer system. To incentivize, moderators will have their meals paid for ($25 value), and players who bring buzzers will play for free.

I will postpone the tournament if there is insufficient interest from either players or moderators by Friday, August 6.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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Santa Claus
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by Santa Claus »

castrioti wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:10 am this round robin singles tournament
Please run this as a shoot-out. It would reduce necessary rooms and staff to one apiece (maybe two) and would certainly accelerate rounds. I think the people who will play this will not mind losing the opportunity to buzz on a handful of questions - there are plenty to go around.

EDIT: You could even run upper and lower rooms, should enough people show up to justify it.
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Mike Bentley
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by Mike Bentley »

castrioti wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:56 am
I can't imagine the demand for this tournament as written is so high to basically take all of the Sunday slot.
No, and I do not expect it to. I don't want to push aside or compete with other events, as the CO weekend has always been about playing as much quality quiz bowl as possible. As others have previously suggested, I see this taking place the Friday before the tournament. Monday seems like it would be harder for folks to do, but whatever, if that's what people want to do.
Ah, okay. I think this probably works as a Friday or Monday tournament, although I still suspect that you're going to end up with a lot of unread questions or packets where only a handful of people hear them.
Mike Bentley
VP of Editing, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Since three votes is not minimally statistically viable, I will extend voting on this tournament's date for one more week.

As a note on tournament length, I have timed reading of the rounds to 33 minutes per round, adding in 5 seconds until the timer per question (assuming the tiebreakers are needed and all questions go to completion). I think the 12-hour timeframe is reasonable.

For those who have suggested formats other than singles round robin, I have a number of workable scenarios, but ultimately will depend upon demand.

If you are interested, please vote.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Apologies for the long hiatus for those interested in this tournament.

I will hold the tournament on Monday, August 23 at Northwestern for anyone interested. Based on interest so far, this will likely be a smaller event, and we will have five rooms to work with at Northwestern. I am now considering seeding rounds with ladder play (upper, middle, lower rooms) as a possible alternative to full round robins, again dependent on final interest.

The signup sheet is below. Please also PM me on this site and I will consider you registered.

Thanks, all, for your interest.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gmz ... sp=sharing
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Given the lack of interest in this event as advertised, I am taking the following actions:

1: I am eliminating all single round robin / ladder play scenarios. That will also eliminate the need for staffing.
2: I am decreasing the entry fee to $15 per person without the need for a tournament staff. I will consider using tournament fees to provide lunch. That will depend on demand and the particular requirements of local mask mandates (more on that later, but masks will be required).
3: The size of the field will now be limited to 10 persons as buzzer system accommodations dictate.
4: I will run the tournament using a staged shootout format. The tournament will continue to use 15 packets of 30 tossups each with two playoff packets to give people a chance to take short breaks. If there is more than a two victory advantage at the end of 15 rounds, the player with that advantage wins outright, if the advantage is less than three victories, the players with the next best records will advance to the playoffs along with the advantaged player.
5: I am extending the registration deadline to Wednesday, August 18 at midnight Pacific time. Please continue to use the sign up sheet to register interest, and e-mail me at mathewswesleya at gmail dot com to officially register. Alternately, send me a PM on this site. Do that also if you no longer wish to attend given these changes.

See you in Chicago, regardless.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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Mike Bentley
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by Mike Bentley »

Perhaps some of this could be run while JORDU is going on? That tournament doesn't have too many people signed up right now. I'm guessing you'll get more interest in a few people playing some rounds on Sunday than coming back on Monday.
Mike Bentley
VP of Editing, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Mike Bentley wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:12 pm Perhaps some of this could be run while JORDU is going on? That tournament doesn't have too many people signed up right now. I'm guessing you'll get more interest in a few people playing some rounds on Sunday than coming back on Monday.
That is also the thinking of most of my potential attendees. I didn't want to compete with anyone else's tournament, but the thinking is nearly universal that interest overlap with JORDU is low, and that people don't want to spend another night in Chicago. I've checked with Victor and Jacob, and we will have a room available to move the tournament to the third slot on Sunday. So be it.

We will plan to run an abridged version of the tournament in person in the third slot, Sunday, August 22, 2021, which will also finish on Sunday, so no need to return on Monday. I am checking on time availability Sunday evening; that will determine the total number of rounds.

I will follow that up with an online mirror on Discord later this year for those who couldn't make it to Chicago, which will cover the same number of rounds we read at Northwestern and cost the same. Then, I will follow that mirror up with an open online event I will tentatively call "The Geography Front Part 2: The Lost Rounds" which will be open to everyone, including those who played at Chicago. That way everyone who wants to gets to hear every question.

Again, if you are interested or changing your mind, e-mail me, mathewswesleya at gmail dot com, or send me a PM on this site.

Link to interest list is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gmz ... sp=sharing

Wesley
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Two days to go, and after a dropout or two there are still three spots open on the interest list.

I expect to clear 6-8 rounds of tossups with a playoff if needed, may adjust based on timing actually available due to Scattergories and Muses II.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

We have a quorum, and still space for three more, so this event will happen tomorrow at the Northwestern University Technology Center, Room M345, immediately following Muses II for those who missed the announcement as CO was ending.

Edit: we have a buzzer system, but I would like to have one backup, so let me know if you are plating and have one available (the discount would still be applicable, i.e., you play for free).
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

We plan to start between 6-6:30, some are taking a food break and others did not attend Muses and need to arrive.

Please come to M345 as soon as possible to get started.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

Statistics can be found at the below link, since I was not able to get Yellow Fruit or SQBS to work with a shootout format.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

We got through five rounds. I will announce the online mirror shortly. It will consist of the same 5 rounds read to those who couldn't make it to Chicago, with the exception that those who had to leave early will be eligible to play the rounds they missed (if your name is not listed in a round in the statistics list, you are eligible). Please hold any discussion until after the mirror concludes. Following that, we will play Part 2: The Lost Rounds online, likely again in stages, and everyone is eligible again.

Thank you all for playing.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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meebles127
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by meebles127 »

Will there be a discussion forum
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

meebles127 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:31 pm Will there be a discussion forum
Yes, once the mirror is done.
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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castrioti
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Re: The Geography Front

Post by castrioti »

meebles127 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:31 pm Will there be a discussion forum
I have opened discussion here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25345
Wesley Mathews
Indiana University 2006
Occidental College 2001
The Altamont School 1997
Putnam Magnet 1993

"I have not brought you liberty, I have found it here among you" --George Castrioti, upon returning to Kruje, 1443
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