Bad Right Answers from vendor-produced packets

[the return of AHAN]

From a packet written in October, 2008, by everyone's favorite, Wheaton, IL-based question vendor rhyming with "Rest Chins a-bore"...

"Tell the state in which the following man-made attactions are located."

5.) Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
Answer: Pennsylvania

[rjaguar3]

From a packet written in October, 2008, by everyone's favorite, Wheaton, IL-based question vendor rhyming with "Rest Chins a-bore"...

"Tell the state in which the following man-made attactions are located."

5.) Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
Answer: Pennsylvania

Once we have our tournament on Saturday, I'll post the best rejected QG questions.

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

Guys, whether we like them or not, I'm concerned about the fact that in all likelyhood these questions are going to be used at a later date in places like Missouri. We still afford them the respect of not having their questions spoiled for different markets, which is no different than HSAPQ or NAQT.

[Ethnic history of the Vilnius region]

Eh, nevermind, Triple Q will probably use this question again. They've been using it for at least 8 years; no need to stop now!

[at your pleasure]

Actually, there is a Tomb of The Unkown Soldier in Philadelphia. It is a hose, but it is factually accurate.

[AKKOLADE]

Guys, whether we like them or not, I'm concerned about the fact that in all likelyhood these questions are going to be used at a later date in places like Missouri. We still afford them the respect of not having their questions spoiled for different markets, which is no different than HSAPQ or NAQT.

Came here to post this, but was beaten by Charlie Dees.

[the return of AHAN]

Ah, but this question was in a packet that was part of a subscription of practice questions. Are we concerned that QG is recycling questions in their "practice" products as part of their competition packets in the same year? What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same? Because they could just as easily trot out a question from an OLD packet. And if THAT'S the case, we should never talk about anyone's questions, ever.

[at your pleasure]

What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same?

I'm pretty sure that even QG has not sunk to such lows as recycling last year's questions. And if they have, their question security is shot to hell anyways.

[Auroni]

What if I point out bad questions from 2 years ago? Is that different or same?

I'm pretty sure that even QG has not sunk to such lows as recycling last year's questions.

YOUR ARE PROBABLY WRONG

yeah, just because companies like QG operate under a veneer of professionalism doesn't mean that they won't get lazy and do exactly this.

[the return of AHAN]

but my initial point was, are we concerned that QG is reusing questions from their "middle school practice" subscriptions in competition packets?
Actually, I thought the "practice" questions they sold were effectively last year's questions, which, one would think, would preclude them from appearing in 2008-09 competition sets.

As for Pennsylvania question, that's the Tomb of the Unknown Revolutionary War Soldier. There's also a Tomb of the Unknown Confederate Soldier in Biloxi, MS. I could argue MS should be acceptable, then. Unfortunately, our association has no rule to deal with bad questions the way the IHSA does, other than to say the moderator can accept alternative answers if they're 100% sure they're right about it.

[Irreligion in Bangladesh]

I'll throw it in here - it's been confirmed 100% that Platypus repeats questions from on a cyclic basis, so lay off them in this thread, if you're unfortunate enough to have some on your hands.

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

but my initial point was, are we concerned that QG is reusing questions from their "middle school practice" subscriptions in competition packets?
Actually, I thought the "practice" questions they sold were effectively last year's questions, which, one would think, would preclude them from appearing in 2008-09 competition sets.

You'll notice that you didn't tell us any of this in your first post. In fact, all you said was that the packet was written in October 2008, which is pretty reasonable then to assume that that means the packet was used this season in a tournament. While I am not a moderator, it seems that if you had just told us this up front, then I wouldn't have become worried about local Missouri tournaments being compromised if anyone were to stumble on this thread.

[Captain Sinico]

Okay, here's the thing. I'm not sure a company that repeats questions in distinct sets (i.e. sets such that no team should reasonably hear both) is entitled to the protection we grant, say, NAQT, HSAPQ or other providers that produce distinct sets to be used at disparate times. If it's a company's policy to use questions sold as practice questions in competitive sets, they themselves are not making a good-faith effort to maintain question security and they have no right to expect the same from us.
So, I'd say that, unless the set itself or some distinct derivative* of it is to be used later, I don't see how anyone can fault you for discussing that set. After all, all you're doing is leveling the playing field in an actual sense: anyone who's willing to obtain this information would already have it.

MaS

*I have in mind here something like Div. II SCT's set, which at least used to contain a number of questions from one of the IS sets. What I mean to say is that you ought not publicly discuss Div. II SCT's set in that case even supposing that set itself won't be re-used later because it explicitly contains stuff from an IS set that presumably will be.

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

My concern is that in my experience with these companies, they will reformat their questions within the same season for different markets (for example, when I was playing QG in high school I distinctly remember every math calculation being written with the obvious intent of having 30 seconds to complete it, which is not the rule in Missouri but is the rule in Illinois, and some other distributional problems that would have made sense in IHSA but not MSHSAA. Similarly, I remember Shawn Pickrell produced 36 MSHSAA format matches last year out of the VHSL stuff he had running at the same time). Perhaps we should be expecting them to announce publicly that these questions are going to be used later in the season, but my experience is that these companies have no gauge of what the community expects of them, so it's hard tell them to do that (and they probably don't even know these boards exist).
The simple solution though would be to just say "this is from a practice set" or "this is from a tournament last year" before discussing these questions, no?

[Important Bird Area]

Div. II SCT's set, which at least used to contain a number of questions from one of the IS sets. What I mean to say is that you ought not publicly discuss Div. II SCT's set in that case even supposing that set itself won't be re-used later because it explicitly contains stuff from an IS set that presumably will be.

The last DII SCT set which contained overlapping content with an IS set was the 2007 SCT (shared with IS #66). That being said: you still shouldn't talk about the SCT set in public because NAQT will be using the DII version for high school events later in the spring.

[rjaguar3]

Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.

[Stained Diviner]

Awesome. They just gave away the location of the secret Richard Nixon NASA Center, which we now know is in the Gulf of Mexico.

I can only hope that the answer to the second one was either Hyperbolic or six degree defect.

[the return of AHAN]

From a recent bonus question part;
"Original meaning of the acronym R.I.P." Answer stated on page, "Rest in Peace"

Answer given by my Latin-taking frosh/soph team; "Requiescat in pace"

Any guesses as to how the moderator ruled???????
Thank goodness it wasn't a close game.

[rjaguar3]

From a recent bonus question part;
"Original meaning of the acronym R.I.P." Answer stated on page, "Rest in Peace"

Answer given by my Latin-taking frosh/soph team; "Requiescat in pace"

Any guesses as to how the moderator ruled???????
Thank goodness it wasn't a close game.

Acronym questions need the death they truly deserve.

[rchschem]

Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.

No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."

[rjaguar3]

Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.

No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."

I'm curious. What was the answer to that question?

[Sir Thopas]

Getting back on topic:

Two pictures from broadcast WRAL Brain Game episodes.

No fair picking on Brain Game. The fruit hang too low. For example, "Humphrey Bogart is a ____."

I'm curious. What was the answer to that question?

playa

[Nine-Tenths Ideas]

dead guy

[Maxwell Sniffingwell]

capricorn

[Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant]

smoker

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

biped

[Kouign Amann]

featherless biped

Fixed by Plato.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Ah darnit i knew i was wrong somewhere!

[the return of AHAN]

Please assess the correctness of the following question gleaned from last year's HAVOC:

This hero’s many exploits include defending Oedipus, going on the voyage of the Argonauts, and hunting the Calydonian boar. His second wife Phaedra’s love for his son Hippolytus is his chief cause of misfortune. He also killed such bandits as Procrustes and married the Amazon queen Hippolyta. Traditionally the hero of Attica, in literature he appears as the duke of Athens. Name this Greek hero who abandoned Ariadne after slaying the Minotaur.
Answer: Theseus

My assistant, who coaches the Certamen team, swears both parts I've bolded are wrong, relative to the answer space. Can anyone settle this?

[Awehrman]

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.

[AndyShootsAndyScores]

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.

Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.

[Pilgrim]

From Edith Hamilton's mythology:

"[Theseus] was one of the men who sailed on the Argo to find the Golden Fleece. He took part in the great Calydonian Hunt..."

So they're not completely wrong, but they're not good clues either, since they can apply to so many people.

[cdcarter]

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.

Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.

Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!

[the return of AHAN]

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.

Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.

Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!

What about when combined with defending Oedipus? The first line mentioned those 3 things all together.

[Blackboard Monitor Vimes]

No, those are both accurate. Jason and the argonauts all participated in the Calydonian Boar hunt, and Theseus was an Argonaut. He may be confusing the Calydonian Boar with Heracles's Erymanthian Boar.

Actually, Theseus isn't usually counted amongst the crew of the Argo, but he and Pirithous did take part in the hunt of the Boar. It wasn't just the Argonauts who took part in the hunt. So, the first part is wrong, second is correct.

Theseus sure was on the Argo, perhaps not as crew, but its fairly safe to say he went on that voyage. However, neither clue is unique at all!

Yeah, Chris, that's why I took them out of the very first clue, which is where they were when this TU was first submitted to me, IIRC. At the time I was fairly certain the Oedipus clue was unique, especially when combined with those two, but I may be mistaken in that... This year they wouldn't have been in there at all (at least not without mentioning specifics about his actions in regards to either), since I actually somewhat know what I'm doing this year (as opposed to last season, when I probably had no business editing two thirds of a tournament). There are problems with that set, but I'm fairly certain factual inaccuracy is not one of them.

[Captain Sinico]

What about when combined with defending Oedipus? The first line mentioned those 3 things all together.

Theseus appears as the King of Athens and defends Oedipus in Oedipus at Colonus. That's probably the most unambiguous of the three clues.
It's not wise to pontificate off-the-cuff about myth, usually, because even authoritative sources will indicate a high degree of variance. For example, some sources do not place Theseus among the Argonauts, while others do, as per the earlier Hamilton citation. So, the lead-in isn't categorically wrong, but a better one might be found (and apparently was?)

MaS