Michigan '09-'10

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Michigan '09-'10

Post by Novi2010 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:44 pm

Top Teams:

CC-Finished 4th this year at nationals. Don't know about their graduation status, but they are one of the premier programs nationally, so they will be great as usual.

DCD-Loses everyone but Neil Gurram, but Neil himself could beat nearly everyone in the state. Arguably the #1 player nationally.

Novi-Had a disappointing showing at nationals, but still a solid team nonetheless. Returns Yunbo, who will be one of the states top players.


Players to watch:

Neil Gurram, Senior, DCD
Yunbo Nie, Senior, Novi


Right now I'd say DCD is the favorite just based on Neil and his proven track record. Feel free to rip me apart. Discuss!

Please add to both lists!
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:20 pm

Alas, someone got this topic started. Thanks Zhao.

Um, DCC I believe is losing almost all their team, but Michael Yurko is coming back. I know that he is a good science player. And DCC, year after year, when one thinks that they are not going to be that great, they become a phenomenal and difficult team to play against as witnessed by their tournament records and their phenomenal fourth place finish at NAQT Nationals. Of course, that may have changed had the tiebreakers that we had against them been more towards our side, but I will not get into that.

East Lansing is also a phenomenal team as well. They went 5-1 the first six games at nationals, but then they lost the last four. That might be from experience, so they will be ready to overcome that obstacle next year. They are a tough team for anyone to play against.

Novi is a great team, and upon playing them a couple of times last year, I witnessed that they answer questions sometimes rather shockingly and really early. They can really ruin the confidence of the opposing team when they get on a roll. This year's nationals at NAQT was unfortunate for them as they lost a couple of close ones, but they will be ready for next year I feel.

Troy High also has some phenomenal players on their team. I am not sure about who is coming back, but I got to see them play and they are very good in many realms of Quizbowl. Hopefully they can come to more tournaments this year.

Grosse Pointe North unfortunately loses their best player Jamie Ding, so may not be as good this year. But I know that others are interested in QB will not graduate, so hopefully GPN can come to some tournaments this year and continue what Jamie Ding has done.

DCD will take a huge hit this year after losing five of our six players, but we have lots of players who know many topics well that can definitely help our team to perform well at tournaments and state championships. Hopefully we can continue where we left off last year.

I do not know of many other teams, but please add to that list.

Good Luck to all next year.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:45 pm

I think DCC and DCD will certainly be the teams to beat again this year.
I expect DCD to be similar to the East Lansing team from two years ago, which had Kurtis but lost its next top 5 players from the previous year. Neil is really, really, good, and still improving.

Troy and Novi will be good, but I don't expect either to consistently compete with DCC and DCD.

East Lansing, sadly, will probably fall off the map. I think Mr. Kabodian is retiring as coach, and whoever replaces him (assuming someone volunteers) will probably not be as happy to go to lots of tournaments. Also, two of their top three players graduated.

I know nothing about GPN, but teams led by someone as good as Jamie usually have a few fairly good players whose knowledge got masked.

I think there will be a lot of very evenly matched teams competing for places 5-8 at the tournaments this year; I have no idea how good those teams will be.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:06 pm

DCDS is the favorite. No doubt about that.
Novi showed that they were pretty deep last year, I expect them to be the legitimate darkhorse in every tournament they play. DCC is always a contender no matter who graduates. Dewitt graduated Jimmy, and he is headed to MSU. Okemos and Churchill seemed pretty strong last year, does anyone know who is coming back for them next year?



Additionally, all Lansing area high schoolers (or i guess anyone for that matter) are invited to drop by our practices during the school year. Shoot us an email cbowl AT msu dot edu.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:49 am

As far as Catholic Central goes, we are only returning one person from our A team that finished fourth at nationals. However, we have two very good seniors who will lead our team in Michael Yurko and Matt Nicholas. Behind them, we have a large amount of juniors who are all working hard. Although we lost six seniors, we are still looking to be in pretty good shape.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:11 pm

ryandillon wrote:As far as Catholic Central goes, we are only returning one person from our A team that finished fourth at nationals. However, we have two very good seniors who will lead our team in Michael Yurko and Matt Nicholas. Behind them, we have a large amount of juniors who are all working hard. Although we lost six seniors, we are still looking to be in pretty good shape.
That is definitely a good sign. It is pretty amazing how you guys are able to rebound year after year, especially when a group of students who are really good leave.

DCD definitely looks forward to playing against DCC, and hopefully nice matches will be in store.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:00 pm

I know it's a bit early to be talking about this, but does anyone have any tentative dates for some of the fall tournaments in Michigan? I'm talking about tournaments like White Cloud's tournament, the fall tournament at U of M Dearborn, and any other tournaments that are taking place in the area.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:13 pm

Autumn classic is tentatively December 5.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:29 pm

MSU has tentatively an unnamed tournament on November 14th, as well as a revival of the Rube Goldberg Invitational in January. A spring tournament is also in the works.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:42 am

squareroot165 wrote:Autumn classic is tentatively December 5.
Odds and Sods wrote:MSU has tentatively an unnamed tournament on November 14th, as well as a revival of the Rube Goldberg Invitational in January. A spring tournament is also in the works.
Um, do you know what set of questions either of you will be using?
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:53 am

We are planning on still using an IS set.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by dtaylor4 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:16 am

It's a bit of a trek, but the club at the University of Illinois is hosting a tournament October 10th. We traditionally pull the strongest teams in the State, and also have pulled strong teams from other states. If you're interested, email me or post in the tournament thread.

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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by michiefs » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Nalin, I believe you were inquiring as to who we're returning. We kept 5 or 6 people on our A team last year, three of whom are gone, including Connie and Justin. So basically we're in the same boat as Dewitt and East Lansing. As for Michigan as a whole, I believe DCD will be the team to beat, and DCC and Novi are right there as well. It's always difficult for people to assess our competitiveness because we play so little (no money), but we occasionally go on runs like states last year where we ended up third (two losses to GPN).

All in all I'm looking forward to the coming year, it should be interesting.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:46 pm

Well, it looks like the majority of teams in Michigan, and the nation, are losing many key seniors from last year. So I think that most of us are in the same boat. Hopefully Michigan as a whole can have as many teams represent our state at nationals as we did this past year.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:10 pm

ryandillon wrote:Hopefully Michigan as a whole can have as many teams represent our state at nationals as we did this past year.
The problem is that there were only 6/18 teams who made it to playoffs at NAQT Nats this year who were from Michigan. I really think it is great that there are 18 teams, but if only 6 qualify for the playoffs then that really shows that many teams from Michigan just doesn't match up with other teams around the country. Granted, there were many teams who were 5-5 from Michigan, so it could've been bad luck (a tossup or a bonus) that kept the teams from advancing to the playoffs, so I definitely am not too worried about the outlook next year.

I also hope that teams from Ohio come to some Michigan tournaments more often and hopefully Ohio or Indiana will be able to host some tournaments that teams from Michigan can come to. Illinois is too far for many teams to go on a school day periodically, so hopefully more tournaments can come around.

Also, I really hope that schools in Michigan start using the HSAPQ Packets or NAQT Packets, rather than other questions that seem to be really transparent and don't really distinguish teams in the state from one another. Michigan's teams this year will be really close in skill, though not as close as the previous years. We can't be using questions that are too transparent/too easy. The HSAPQ and NAQT really do correct those problems.

Furthermore, I hope that some tournaments in Michigan that were not hosted this year will be hosted this year.

Is U of M doing summer practices? I know MSU is, but that unfortunately would be a long drive.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:02 pm

Ohio has a decently extensive pyramidal circuit - Ohio State, Kent State, I think Tippecanoe, and Solon ran invitationals on pyramidal questions, and there were possibly more.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by sds » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:49 pm

master15625 wrote: Is U of M doing summer practices? I know MSU is, but that unfortunately would be a long drive.
We are doing weekly practices over the summer - they're usually Wednesdays from 7 - 9:30 PM in Room 4002 of the Michigan Union. All are welcome!
For this week only (7/29), we're meeting from 5 - 7:30 at my apartment. Email me at ssabhapa AT umich DOT edu if you'd like to come this week, and I can give you my address/directions.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:50 pm

Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote: Solon ran invitationals on pyramidal questions, and there were possibly more.
We went out to the Solon tournament. It was two days long. Saturday was NAQT, an IS packet I believe, and Sunday was HSAPQ. Neil if you guys could make it out to that one it would be great.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by michiefs » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:01 pm

master15625 wrote:
Also, I really hope that schools in Michigan start using the HSAPQ Packets or NAQT Packets, rather than other questions that seem to be really transparent and don't really distinguish teams in the state from one another. Michigan's teams this year will be really close in skill, though not as close as the previous years. We can't be using questions that are too transparent/too easy. The HSAPQ and NAQT really do correct those problems.
I could not agree more. Even though I've only been playing for a year and a half, it's readily apparent that HSAPQ and NAQT are better questions for regular season tournaments. For the most part, it's been my experience that the questions are generally fair and reward true knowledge of the subject rather than fast buzzing as can sometimes be the case with short questions.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Unicolored Jay » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:14 pm

Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote:Ohio has a decently extensive pyramidal circuit - Ohio State, Kent State, I think Tippecanoe, and Solon ran invitationals on pyramidal questions, and there were possibly more.
Add Case Western's GLRAC (PACE) to the list. I remember DCC attending earlier this year and DCD attending the year before.
ryandillon wrote:
Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote: Solon ran invitationals on pyramidal questions, and there were possibly more.
We went out to the Solon tournament. It was two days long. Saturday was NAQT, an IS packet I believe, and Sunday was HSAPQ. Neil if you guys could make it out to that one it would be great.
Yeah, we used NAQT and HSAPQ. Our tournaments seem to be full of tough teams every year, so it could pretty well be worth it coming. :wink:
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Huang » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:28 pm

The rest of Michigan should be like DCC (who regularly comes to Russell tournaments) and come to Kentucky tournaments.

(Hint: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8127)
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:20 pm

I'm not sure if this post belongs here but whatever. Does anyone know how the team Michigan will send to the HSAPQ all-star tournament thing will be determined?
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:26 pm

Huang wrote:The rest of Michigan should be like DCC (who regularly comes to Russell tournaments) and come to Kentucky tournaments.

(Hint: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8127)
Well in my memory, Russell is the only one in Kentucky we make it out to so its not like we're in Kentucky all the time.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Huang » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:09 pm

ryandillon wrote:
Huang wrote:The rest of Michigan should be like DCC (who regularly comes to Russell tournaments) and come to Kentucky tournaments.

(Hint: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8127)
Well in my memory, Russell is the only one in Kentucky we make it out to so its not like we're in Kentucky all the time.
Ah ok. You guys should come to Dunbar's tournament though. According to Google Maps, it's only 359 miles (which is basically the same as traveling 338 miles to Russell)
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:22 pm

ryandillon wrote:I'm not sure if this post belongs here but whatever. Does anyone know how the team Michigan will send to the HSAPQ all-star tournament thing will be determined?
Your post is definitely relevant.

I am not sure how Michigan will send a team, but presumably I feel that tournaments should focus more on keeping stats of not only the teams but the individuals. Most of the tournaments that I went to only did the former.

From the individual stats, I believe we then have to look for consistency (who is usually doing well most of the time, and not really being a fluke or whatnot). The consistency is clearly important. From this, I believe that a certain number should be chosen (like if there were 6 people we could send, take the top 3 or so). Then, a group of coaches then put in their own ballots giving their reason as to why people who were not in the top 3 should join, and if the coaches agree, then choose the students to complete the balance. That would be a good way. Of course, the coaches have to have a time to get together. We should try to go for diversity in the team (not like everyone from the same school); of course, if one school has six dominating players...

Now, from all this, if there is no person who wants to monitor the students on the Michigan team, then obviously we can't go, which would suck, because this tournament definitely deserves some representation.
ryandillon wrote: We went out to the Solon tournament. It was two days long. Saturday was NAQT, an IS packet I believe, and Sunday was HSAPQ. Neil if you guys could make it out to that one it would be great.
Of course that is up to our coach. We wanted to do it last year, but things just didn't work out. I really want to go to the Solon Tournament once in High School and next year would be the last time. :sad:
michiefs wrote:Nalin, I believe you were inquiring as to who we're returning. We kept 5 or 6 people on our A team last year, three of whom are gone, including Connie and Justin. So basically we're in the same boat as Dewitt and East Lansing. As for Michigan as a whole, I believe DCD will be the team to beat, and DCC and Novi are right there as well. It's always difficult for people to assess our competitiveness because we play so little (no money), but we occasionally go on runs like states last year where we ended up third (two losses to GPN).

All in all I'm looking forward to the coming year, it should be interesting.
Not to take anything away from you guys, but that tournament, although it does get publicity, doesn't really do the best job in the true sense of quizbowl (it lacks pyramidality, it doesn't have enough tough questions, it has too many vague answers).

Don't forget about March Madness, you guys also placed third in that. That tournament was definitely a better tournament that evoked the true sense of quizbowl than Class A, which is why you definitely still have a chance at doing well.

And you guys are lucky that you live near East Lansing; at least you have tourneys close by. :grin:
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:22 pm

Huang wrote:
ryandillon wrote:
Huang wrote:The rest of Michigan should be like DCC (who regularly comes to Russell tournaments) and come to Kentucky tournaments.

(Hint: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8127)
Well in my memory, Russell is the only one in Kentucky we make it out to so its not like we're in Kentucky all the time.
Ah ok. You guys should come to Dunbar's tournament though. According to Google Maps, it's only 359 miles (which is basically the same as traveling 338 miles to Russell)
Would you come to a michigan tournament then? But in all seriousness, when you say only 359 miles, you sort of underestimate the driving that some coaches don't really want to do.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:40 pm

master15625 wrote:
ryandillon wrote:I'm not sure if this post belongs here but whatever. Does anyone know how the team Michigan will send to the HSAPQ all-star tournament thing will be determined?
Your post is definitely relevant.

I am not sure how Michigan will send a team, but presumably I feel that tournaments should focus more on keeping stats of not only the teams but the individuals. Most of the tournaments that I went to only did the former.

From the individual stats, I believe we then have to look for consistency (who is usually doing well most of the time, and not really being a fluke or whatnot). The consistency is clearly important. From this, I believe that a certain number should be chosen (like if there were 6 people we could send, take the top 3 or so). Then, a group of coaches then put in their own ballots giving their reason as to why people who were not in the top 3 should join, and if the coaches agree, then choose the students to complete the balance. That would be a good way. Of course, the coaches have to have a time to get together. We should try to go for diversity in the team (not like everyone from the same school); of course, if one school has six dominating players...

Now, from all this, if there is no person who wants to monitor the students on the Michigan team, then obviously we can't go, which would suck, because this tournament definitely deserves some representation.
ryandillon wrote: We went out to the Solon tournament. It was two days long. Saturday was NAQT, an IS packet I believe, and Sunday was HSAPQ. Neil if you guys could make it out to that one it would be great.
Of course that is up to our coach. We wanted to do it last year, but things just didn't work out. I really want to go to the Solon Tournament once in High School and next year would be the last time. :sad:
michiefs wrote:Nalin, I believe you were inquiring as to who we're returning. We kept 5 or 6 people on our A team last year, three of whom are gone, including Connie and Justin. So basically we're in the same boat as Dewitt and East Lansing. As for Michigan as a whole, I believe DCD will be the team to beat, and DCC and Novi are right there as well. It's always difficult for people to assess our competitiveness because we play so little (no money), but we occasionally go on runs like states last year where we ended up third (two losses to GPN).

All in all I'm looking forward to the coming year, it should be interesting.
Not to take anything away from you guys, but that tournament, although it does get publicity, doesn't really do the best job in the true sense of quizbowl (it lacks pyramidality, it doesn't have enough tough questions, it has too many vague answers).

Don't forget about March Madness, you guys also placed third in that. That tournament was definitely a better tournament that evoked the true sense of quizbowl than Class A, which is why you definitely still have a chance at doing well.

And you guys are lucky that you live near East Lansing; at least you have tourneys close by. :grin:
Well Neil, if you could come out to Solon I'm sure things would be a lot more interesting, so I really hope you guys can. Also, on the HSAPQ balloting suggestion, I think that would be a great idea but there are some hangups.

1. There are teams who generally don't face the best competition, which balloons their stats.

2. While the whole "all-star" mentality is a great idea, we would be much better off sending a balanced team in my mind.

Also, is it mandatory that a coach accompanies the team? Because if not, I'm sure the most, if not all, the players that would be on the Michigan team would have their licenses.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:55 pm

ryandillon wrote:
Well Neil, if you could come out to Solon I'm sure things would be a lot more interesting, so I really hope you guys can. Also, on the HSAPQ balloting suggestion, I think that would be a great idea but there are some hangups.

1. There are teams who generally don't face the best competition, which balloons their stats.

2. While the whole "all-star" mentality is a great idea, we would be much better off sending a balanced team in my mind.

Also, is it mandatory that a coach accompanies the team? Because if not, I'm sure the most, if not all, the players that would be on the Michigan team would have their licenses.
Well, that is true, so I guess coaches should try to judge performances based not only on score but also on difficulty of tournament competition and tournament questions.

Yeah, we should send a balanced team, which is why the coaches might be able to decide what players can fill the gaps. The top players based on scores and difficulty of tournament questions should definitely go however, because they have knowledge that others may not excel at. Also, pop culture questions will not be used, which makes the decision making process somewhat easier, as now the team can be built upon academics and not worry about the topic that many people who are academically inclined fail at.

I don't know if coaches have to accompany a team, but some parents might want that to happen/liability.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Huang » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:16 pm

master15625 wrote:
Huang wrote:
ryandillon wrote:
Huang wrote:The rest of Michigan should be like DCC (who regularly comes to Russell tournaments) and come to Kentucky tournaments.

(Hint: http://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8127)
Well in my memory, Russell is the only one in Kentucky we make it out to so its not like we're in Kentucky all the time.
Ah ok. You guys should come to Dunbar's tournament though. According to Google Maps, it's only 359 miles (which is basically the same as traveling 338 miles to Russell)
Would you come to a michigan tournament then?
Yes, if the tournament used non-vendor sets.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by michiefs » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:18 pm

I'm almost positive you need a parent of some sort to act as a coach at most tournaments as we had to do that a couple of times. Neil, I agree completely the questions at states were brutally undiverse and often had give aways in the first few sentences. I went home after day one and learned some basic geology stuff and wouldn't you know about one question a match was on plate tectonics. I only mentioned it because it was the most recent competition we were in. That goes back to the point you made earlier, if a tournament wants to really be considered reputable by any standards they need to be using NAQT or HSAPQ packets.
Last edited by michiefs on Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by at your pleasure » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:34 pm

If an out-of-stater may throw in his two cents, I would suggest the following procedure. First, draw up a list of the best N players in Michigan, where N is an interger multiple of 4 between 8 and 20. All students from that list play mini subject tournaments of their choice in the literature, science, or history. Note that people can play in more than one of these subject tournaments. The top player from each subject tournament should be given an automatic spot on the team. In the next step, "interested nonparties"(anyone involved with quizbowl in Michigan, including the subject tournament winners, who is not one of the students in contention for a spot) will vote on who the remaining slots should go to based on who would fill in the subject tournament winners' gaps. This plan allows for all-stars but provides a better shot at a balanced team.
Also,
Huang wrote:
Yes, if the tournament used non-vendor sets.
Is the issue that there's a good chance that there will be a closer tournament or that you don't like any of the existing vendor sets? HSAPQ is pretty good, and I'm sure NAQT sets will be better next year with at least the option of MATHCOMP free IS sets.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Huang » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:42 am

Russian dance music wrote: Is the issue that there's a good chance that there will be a closer tournament or that you don't like any of the existing vendor sets?
There's a good chance that there will be a closer tournament on the same vendor set
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:34 am

Russian dance music wrote:If an out-of-stater may throw in his two cents, I would suggest the following procedure. First, draw up a list of the best N players in Michigan, where N is an interger multiple of 4 between 8 and 20. All students from that list play mini subject tournaments of their choice in the literature, science, or history. Note that people can play in more than one of these subject tournaments. The top player from each subject tournament should be given an automatic spot on the team. In the next step, "interested nonparties"(anyone involved with quizbowl in Michigan, including the subject tournament winners, who is not one of the students in contention for a spot) will vote on who the remaining slots should go to based on who would fill in the subject tournament winners' gaps. This plan allows for all-stars but provides a better shot at a balanced team.
That is a good idea. My question is where could one find such questions that only use one topic. Would the coaches have to make these questions? Because if they did, I am pretty sure they would be busy to do that. But you never know.

Also, I am assuming that those mini subject tournaments aren't the only subjects that players should play in. (Social Science, Geography, Philosophy, Art, to name some).
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by michiefs » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:19 am

I think since really only 4 play and you want a maximum of a couple more, it's probably most worthwhile to concentrate on who's best in the state at the major NAQT subjects: Math, History, and Literature/Mythology and ignore my specialty, geography and pop culture trash that isn't likely to come up more than once a game. If having a completely balanced team is that important, then in the vote stage the holes can be filled, as previously suggested. As for where you'd get questions that is a bit more difficult. I know some collegiate tournaments run only subject questions occasionally, and if they haven't released the questions yet the higher level of difficulty would be good to determine who's really the best. Can't think of a particular example at the present time though, sorry.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:52 am

michiefs wrote:I think since really only 4 play and you want a maximum of a couple more, it's probably most worthwhile to concentrate on who's best in the state at the major NAQT subjects: Math, History, and Literature/Mythology and ignore my specialty, geography and pop culture trash that isn't likely to come up more than once a game. If having a completely balanced team is that important, then in the vote stage the holes can be filled, as previously suggested. As for where you'd get questions that is a bit more difficult. I know some collegiate tournaments run only subject questions occasionally, and if they haven't released the questions yet the higher level of difficulty would be good to determine who's really the best. Can't think of a particular example at the present time though, sorry.
Unfortunately, HSAPQ will not do pop culture or math calculation. And doing a math theory tournament is really useless because it is apparently hard to create lots of math theory tossups.

And with regards to the questions, it is always possible to like extract questions from each subject from like NAQT packets or HSAPQ questions and then ask those questions. Of course at tournaments, tournament directors could possibly like make note of what topic each question is under, and then see how students answer those questions (power or normal). But this can only work if individual stats are kept for not only a round but for each individual question.

It really isn't best to use collegiate tournaments. Although the questions are really phenomenal, some of the questions just are really too difficult for high school, which would not help distinguish students, as many of the questions could end up being buzzerbeaters at the end because of the difficulty. So, we should really keep track at tournaments that aren't a topic specific and see how students do there, and if needed then create packets that are subject specific.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:56 am

master15625 wrote:Unfortunately, HSAPQ will not do pop culture...
Really? I sure don't think that's right...
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:03 pm

Dr. Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
master15625 wrote:Unfortunately, HSAPQ will not do pop culture...
Really? I sure don't think that's right...
HSAPQ Tournament will not do Pop Culture. The name of the tournament is Academic.
From HSAPQ Website-HSAPQ All Star Academic Tournament wrote:“Performance-based,” multimedia, calculation, and pop culture questions will not be used.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by at your pleasure » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:05 pm

For the Lit subject tournament, why not mirror the WoQ lit tournament? It's more or less nationals-level difficulty and quite good.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:13 pm

Russian dance music wrote:For the Lit subject tournament, why not mirror the WoQ lit tournament? It's more or less nationals-level difficulty and quite good.
I didn't know this even existed. Is this a new tournament? If you say it is good, then of course we would consider it. Its just a matter of who would want to host it now.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by at your pleasure » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:23 pm

It ran at WoQ in 2009 and 2008.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:30 pm

master15625 wrote:
Well, that is true, so I guess coaches should try to judge performances based not only on score but also on difficulty of tournament competition and tournament questions.

Yeah, we should send a balanced team, which is why the coaches might be able to decide what players can fill the gaps. The top players based on scores and difficulty of tournament questions should definitely go however, because they have knowledge that others may not excel at. Also, pop culture questions will not be used, which makes the decision making process somewhat easier, as now the team can be built upon academics and not worry about the topic that many people who are academically inclined fail at.

I don't know if coaches have to accompany a team, but some parents might want that to happen/liability.
With that said, how many teams would have coaches actually willing to judge which players should go? If this is to get organized, it would have to be put into motion relatively soon.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:51 am

ryandillon wrote: With that said, how many teams would have coaches actually willing to judge which players should go? If this is to get organized, it would have to be put into motion relatively soon.
Um, I do believe that it doesn't have to be put into action soon, because we haven't really started anything yet. I have absolutely no idea how many coaches would be willing to judge.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by ryandillon » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:18 pm

master15625 wrote:
ryandillon wrote: With that said, how many teams would have coaches actually willing to judge which players should go? If this is to get organized, it would have to be put into motion relatively soon.
Um, I do believe that it doesn't have to be put into action soon, because we haven't really started anything yet. I have absolutely no idea how many coaches would be willing to judge.
I'm just saying, a scramble at the end of the season to put something together would hardly be worth it.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Cheynem » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:52 pm

Just out of curiosity (I'm an ex Michigan high schooler), what sorts of questions are used at the state championship now? When I was playing, they were horrible and vaguely like either Chip Beall or College Bowl.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:09 pm

Cheynem wrote:Just out of curiosity (I'm an ex Michigan high schooler), what sorts of questions are used at the state championship now? When I was playing, they were horrible and vaguely like either Chip Beall or College Bowl.
AT all Class it is NAQT. At Class A, B, C/D, they are made by like MSU I believe; I guess there are some things that haven't changed, because the questions still are bad.
ryandillon wrote: I'm just saying, a scramble at the end of the season to put something together would hardly be worth it.
Yeah, that is absolutely true. Perhaps near the beginning of 2010 we can see what happens, because it will be hard for coaches to make decisions early in the year.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Matt Weiner » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Unless something has changed, the MSU-run "state championship" uses questions from Academic Hallmarks, which is basically on par with Chip (question quality wise, not ethically).
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by master15625 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:34 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Unless something has changed, the MSU-run "state championship" uses questions from Academic Hallmarks, which is basically on par with Chip (question quality wise, not ethically).
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I guess that makes sense, because I don't think MSU would take their time to create so many questions.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by jonah » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:38 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Unless something has changed, the MSU-run "state championship" uses questions from Academic Hallmarks, which is basically on par with Chip (question quality wise, not ethically).
But Academic Hallmarks adds humor, such as "Category: Woodrow Wilson. These points...".
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Habitat_Against_Humanity » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:57 pm

What I remember from that "State Championship" when I played was something like 30% of the mathcomp being "calculate the albedo," usually to two decimal places. Those tournaments were the most infuriating thing of high school quiz bowl.
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Re: Michigan '09-'10

Post by Broad-tailed Grassbird » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:32 pm

Matt Weiner wrote:Unless something has changed, the MSU-run "state championship" uses questions from Academic Hallmarks, which is basically on par with Chip (question quality wise, not ethically).
To reference this tournament :(

It sucks. Academic Hallmarks questions suck. No on the MSU team condones the practice of bad quiz bowl, and it's not a legitimate state tournament (but no other tournament pulls in teams from the UP). If anyone has any suggestions on how to make this better quiz bowl, without scaring half the teams off, I will take them up with the organizer. This tournament is run by the honor's college, and not by quiz bowlers, although half the team does volunteer for it.

At some point, I had the hope of making this a good quiz bowl tournament with pyramidal questions. Some coaches just like a tournament with 125 questions in a match that are one line long. I can't stand it though. Additionally double elimination sucks.

Basically, if enough people, aka quiz bowl players outside the MSU team, complain about it, there could be some change for the better.
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Also, in an earlier post Neil mentioned MSU is having practices. I don't think anyone from the team is even on campus, so I have no clue what practices you speak of.
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