GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

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GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:24 pm

Washington University in St. Louis is pleased to announce that this year's rendition of our annual Gateway Invitational Tournament will be a mirror of Delta Burke (written by Chris Borglum of Valencia CC), and will be held on 11/07/2009. We would like to encourage any and all novice players to attend, and any St. Louis area high school teams are also more than welcome to join in on the fun.

Full details coming in the next day or two - if you have any questions in the meantime, please email me (John Ahlfield) at washuqb@gmail.com.

Additionally, we are tentatively planning to run FOGHAT (trash tourney) on the 8th, if anyone is interested. Announcement for that will be in trash forum.

EDIT (10/27/09):
No dice on FOGHAT

Pricing is as follows:
$80 for first team
$70 for each additional team
-$10 for a working buzzer system
-$5 per 200 miles traveled
minimum $50 per team


EDIT (11/05/09):

Field update:
Drake
Harding
MST(2)
Illinois(2)
WUSTL
Gecko Command Squad (open team of HS players)


Registration will begin at 8:30 in Seigle Hall (building 93 on map), with rounds beginning at 9.
Here's a map to help everyone find the building and parking spaces: http://parking.wustl.edu/parkingmap_2010.pdf
Yellow lots are free on weekends, I would highly recommend parking in lot 35 (in front of Simon). I know it looks like lot 31 is closer, but I'd recommend against it.

Right now, looks like we have 8 teams, and we're not quite sure yet how many packets we'll end up with (up to 14). With only 8 teams, a round robin + advantaged final would use 9 packets at most, so if anyone has some good format/bracketing ideas, I'll gladly take them. Otherwise, see everyone on Saturday!
Last edited by johnboy81918 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:47 pm

While it is fine for Illinois high school teams to come to this (please do, it should be a cool tournament!), you should know that were a Missouri high school team to attend this, if they played under their school's name and under their own player names, they would be in violation of the MSHSAA's rules and would be risking suspension from all future high school events this year. I would highly recommend allowing open teams of high schoolers to this event instead, because high schoolers are not banned from attending open events on non-school teams.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:26 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Free Energy wrote:I would highly recommend allowing open teams of high schoolers to this event
Yeah, I hadn't been specifically thinking about open teams, but I have no qualms allowing them.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:48 pm

We have at least 1 Missouri team that will be attending this. Is there a field update?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:41 pm

As of right now, looks like:

Mizzou (1)
House team (probably 1, possibly 2)
Drake expressed interest, no confirm though

Additionally, it looks as though FOGHAT will not be happening due to TRASH Regionals also being that weekend.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by crobbins52 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:56 pm

Harding should be sending at least a team. Confirmation next week?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by cardigansrule » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Do you know of a cost per team yet? Truman will probably be sending 2, maybe 3 teams.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Jeremy Gibbs-Marangoni Effect » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:57 am

Missouri State is "expressing interest".
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Deckard Cain » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:16 pm

Jeremy Gibbs-Marangoni Effect wrote:Missouri State is "expressing interest".
Ditto for Missouri S&T.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:29 pm

Illinois is sending a team.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:00 am

Field update posted.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by cardigansrule » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:36 pm

Truman will be bringing 2 teams with 3 buzzer systems.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:46 am

Sorry to add this last minute, but Illinois may be sending 2 teams. We have enough interested members, but I need to make sure we have a second driver. When I know for sure, I'll post again.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Deckard Cain » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:56 pm

We'll have anywhere from one to three teams, probably two. I'll email when I find out for sure.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Jeremy Gibbs-Marangoni Effect » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:23 pm

MIssouri State is no longer attending this tournament.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:24 pm

With some frustration I have to say MU's team is dropping as well.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by cardigansrule » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:42 pm

Unfortunately, Truman is also going to have to back out.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:45 pm

More explanation to Hank's post: the people who were planning to go to the tournament realized tonight that none (or only one?) of them had transportation down there. Some of them were still excited about going but ...can't really play if they can't get there. :-\
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:02 am

Jeremy Gibbs Lemma wrote:More explanation to Hank's post: the people who were planning to go to the tournament realized tonight that none (or only one?) of them had transportation down there. Some of them were still excited about going but ...can't really play if they can't get there. :-\
I'm confused--why not have some of your older players drive down and then moderate? Also, what do you mean that people are still excited about going but can't play?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:18 am

Another field update, and logistics info.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:30 am

Charbroil wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Lemma wrote:More explanation to Hank's post: the people who were planning to go to the tournament realized tonight that none (or only one?) of them had transportation down there. Some of them were still excited about going but ...can't really play if they can't get there. :-\
I'm confused--why not have some of your older players drive down and then moderate? Also, what do you mean that people are still excited about going but can't play?
None of us old folk can make this one so we were just going to send a couple teams of young'uns. They found they did not have enough cars to take everyone...or at least this is what I understand. To avoid confusion, I simply meant that most of the guys were excited to play this, but logistics seem to be getting in the way.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:37 am

Per your wondering about the question set in the updated first post in this thread, rest assured that you will have 14 complete packets by mid-afternoon today (Friday, 11/6). You should already have the edited versions of the three Wash U submitted.

Packets 12-14 get a little more challenging in the bonuses, but overall, as in previous iterations, this tournament should allow the best truly novice teams to average over 20 ppb. To experienced players, many of the bonuses may look like two easy parts and a medium, or even three easies, but fortunately they're not the target audience. I hope y'all have a great tournament!
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by jonpin » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:04 pm

johnboy81918 wrote:Right now, looks like we have 8 teams, and we're not quite sure yet how many packets we'll end up with (up to 14). With only 8 teams, a round robin + advantaged final would use 9 packets at most, so if anyone has some good format/bracketing ideas, I'll gladly take them. Otherwise, see everyone on Saturday!
round-robin (1-7)
split into 4/4, second round-robin (8-10)
advantage finals (11-12)

Clearly, a straight DRR is ill-advised as it would leave no packets for tiebreaking.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:48 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Lemma wrote:
Charbroil wrote:
Jeremy Gibbs Lemma wrote:More explanation to Hank's post: the people who were planning to go to the tournament realized tonight that none (or only one?) of them had transportation down there. Some of them were still excited about going but ...can't really play if they can't get there. :-\
I'm confused--why not have some of your older players drive down and then moderate? Also, what do you mean that people are still excited about going but can't play?
None of us old folk can make this one so we were just going to send a couple teams of young'uns. They found they did not have enough cars to take everyone...or at least this is what I understand. To avoid confusion, I simply meant that most of the guys were excited to play this, but logistics seem to be getting in the way.
So why didn't you just send as many player as could fit in whatever number of cars you do have? It seems a bit precipitous to withdraw altogether just because you didn't have enough transportation (as opposed to no transportation).
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by johnboy81918 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:44 pm

jonpin wrote:
johnboy81918 wrote:Right now, looks like we have 8 teams, and we're not quite sure yet how many packets we'll end up with (up to 14). With only 8 teams, a round robin + advantaged final would use 9 packets at most, so if anyone has some good format/bracketing ideas, I'll gladly take them. Otherwise, see everyone on Saturday!
round-robin (1-7)
split into 4/4, second round-robin (8-10)
advantage finals (11-12)

Clearly, a straight DRR is ill-advised as it would leave no packets for tiebreaking.
Yeah, we're planning on this right now :)

Also, for people who see this in time: who is bringing buzzers?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by crobbins52 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:44 am

Harding is bringing a buzzer set.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:14 am

I'm sorry to be adding to the list of teams dropping out, but Illinois will only I've one team coming (just found this out when I woke up 30 minutes ago). Several of oir members had to drop out. We may two teams (one of 2 and one of 3) if absolutely necessary, but I'd prefer not to as four of the five of us our freshman and te last is a sophomore.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by cornfused » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:56 am

starwarsguy6 wrote:I'm sorry to be adding to the list of teams dropping out, but Illinois will only I've one team coming (just found this out when I woke up 30 minutes ago). Several of oir members had to drop out. We may two teams (one of 2 and one of 3) if absolutely necessary, but I'd prefer not to as four of the five of us our freshman and te last is a sophomore.
Is that why Trygve called me at 8:15 AM?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:31 pm

Charles, you're asking me questions I can't answer because I wasn't actually involved in any team decision-making for this event. I was just explaining what happened from my understanding.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:55 pm

WUSTL A took 1st at GIT by going 9-1 and clearing the field, MST A (Matt Chadbourne playing solo) took 2nd and was the top scorer. Stats will be posted.

Also, notably, this was the first tournament held in Missouri which fielded a high school team--the Gecko Command Squad which included Ikshu from Clayton, Sabrina from Villa Duchesne, Kennedy from Metro Classical, and Nathan from Parkway North. The team went 5-5 and took 2nd in the second bracket, showing that high school teams can be competitive with collegiate teams, even in a Missouri context.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:05 pm

Congrats to Wustl A, and I hope everyone at GIT had a good time and enjoyed the questions. I heard there were a couple repeats, for which I apologize. In the meantime, I just wanted to remind folks who heard the sets that the questions will be used next Saturday for Delta Burke and then in the next couple weeks at mirrors at VCU and Washington, so let's not have any specific mention of the questions till after that. Thanks!
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:12 pm

cornfused wrote:
starwarsguy6 wrote:I'm sorry to be adding to the list of teams dropping out, but Illinois will only I've one team coming (just found this out when I woke up 30 minutes ago). Several of oir members had to drop out. We may two teams (one of 2 and one of 3) if absolutely necessary, but I'd prefer not to as four of the five of us our freshman and te last is a sophomore.
Is that why Trygve called me at 8:15 AM?
That would be why, but obviously we just played two teams regardless. As to the tournament itself, the tossup distribution was good, but the bonus distribution was completely whacked and all over the place (compare Illinois' players individual standings to team standings and look at PPB). The Trash distribution was also much harder than anything else at this tournament and I can't believe I had to listen to most of it (with one notable exception that I did not get to answer since I negged the tossup preceding it). Other than these two major problems, the tournament was enjoyable.

On a side note, I heard you were using a self-made stats program that tracked individual bonuses. I'd be interested to see the results of this stats tracking. I'm also interested in potential increased future capabilities and usage of such a stats system.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:17 pm

starwarsguy6 wrote: On a side note, I heard you were using a self-made stats program that tracked individual bonuses.
We are? That's the first I'd heard of it, at the very least, but I imagine that whoever is developing this system will be on here to tell you about it. At the very least, I'm not aware of any new stats program that we used at this tournament--Gordon is developing a stats program, but as far as I know, that's in the prototype stage.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by BGSO » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:20 pm

Gordon was using the program in the few matches we played with him. I guess we Alpha tested it today and he made it sound like he was within less than 5 hours of having it ready to be Betad.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:34 pm

Although we can't discuss the questions here on the boards for a while, I'd love to get e-mails from folks who played at Wash U this weekend with suggestions to make the set better for upcoming mirrors. I'm particularly concerned about perceptions of the bonus difficulty being uneven; please e-mail me if you would like to point out any specific problems you remember: cborglum at valenciacc dot edu.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Big D » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:18 am

starwarsguy6 wrote: That would be why, but obviously we just played two teams regardless. As to the tournament itself, the tossup distribution was good, but the bonus distribution was completely whacked and all over the place (compare Illinois' players individual standings to team standings and look at PPB). The Trash distribution was also much harder than anything else at this tournament and I can't believe I had to listen to most of it (with one notable exception that I did not get to answer since I negged the tossup preceding it). Other than these two major problems, the tournament was enjoyable.

On a side note, I heard you were using a self-made stats program that tracked individual bonuses. I'd be interested to see the results of this stats tracking. I'm also interested in potential increased future capabilities and usage of such a stats system.
^ This. I'm also of the mindset that the bonus distribution was wonky, but that's also because we were getting hit in a weak subject area. Distribution almost never seems bad to the winning team.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by BGSO » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:27 am

Chris, I have some general comments I could probably offer regarding transparency and Bonus issues however I would probably need the set to make specific comments, is there anyway I could get it?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by cornfused » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:13 am

starwarsguy6 wrote:
cornfused wrote:
starwarsguy6 wrote:I'm sorry to be adding to the list of teams dropping out, but Illinois will only I've one team coming (just found this out when I woke up 30 minutes ago). Several of oir members had to drop out. We may two teams (one of 2 and one of 3) if absolutely necessary, but I'd prefer not to as four of the five of us our freshman and te last is a sophomore.
Is that why Trygve called me at 8:15 AM?
That would be why, but obviously we just played two teams regardless.
I mean, I'm in Wisconsin, dude.

EDIT: Well, Tryg just called me again now (no one on his end,) so it's probably a phone issue.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Mike Bentley » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:18 am

starwarsguy6 wrote:The Trash distribution was also much harder than anything else at this tournament and I can't believe I had to listen to most of it (with one notable exception that I did not get to answer since I negged the tossup preceding it). Other than these two major problems, the tournament was enjoyable.
As someone who wrote 3/3 trash for this tournament, I'd be curious to hear specific feedback about the trash you found difficult. Send me an e-mail at uwquizbowl@gmail.com.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:42 pm

Send me an e-mail, David, and I'll hook you up.

At risk of sounding defensive, before we get too far even into non-question-specific reactions to the set, keep in mind my strict admonition that this tournament is aimed at a field of CC players the majority of which are playing their first or second quiz bowl tournament of any kind at any level. Thus, players with a year or more of regular circuit QB, or with any significant HS experience, are going to find the bonuses pretty easy, I think, though I hope the pyramidality of the tosses will be make the opening lines of those challenging for such players.

Having said that, I'm all ears for general ideas here or specific comments to my e-mail: cborglum at valenciacc dot edu.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:50 pm

Also, about the distribution: this year I went ahead and got rid of computational math, which I'm sure will disappoint some folks at my tournament next week. But that left this distro: 4/4 lit (2/2 American, 2/2 other); 4/4 history (same); 4/4 science (1 bio, 1 chem, 1 physics, 1 other); 3/3 RMP (one each); 2/2 fine arts (usually 1 music, 1 visual/other); 1 geography (I like almanac clues!); 1 trash/current events; 1 social science.

That shouldn't have been deviated from in any packet.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:37 pm

Much like David, if I can see some of the sets again, I'd be able to point out some of those problems I had. As someone who's only had one year of good quiz bowl experience (the one year I've had in college as I only played the regular season NAQT packets in high school), I don't think I'm too far off from the average player in the CC circuit.

As to the stats program, my knowledge of it came from David, so he has already mentioned where and how it was used. This was the program I was looking forward to seeing more of in the future.

On a side note, my apologies for getting you messed up with Gordon, Greg.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by BGSO » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:11 pm

When are stats gonna be posted?

Illinois also needs a mailing address to mail you guys the check, you can post the address on the forums or email me at dggarb at gmail.com and then we can send you our check. In addition, I would love to see an official announcement/data from Gordon's stat program.

Thanks a lot for the great tournament WUSTL and I hope you guys host another tournament soon.

DG
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:15 pm

BGSO wrote:When are stats gonna be posted?
The timeframe I heard was "some time in the next few days"--so I'd give it until the end of this week before worrying about people forgetting.
BGSO wrote:Illinois also needs a mailing address to mail you guys the check
I'll bring this up at practice on Wednesday.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:54 pm

That [distribution I posted upthread] shouldn't have been deviated from in any packet.
I lie!!!

Turns out Round 10 did indeed have two trash bonuses--my apologies! Though I can't undo this for those who played GIT, my thanks to those who pointed it out for the good of future players on the set, who will now get their deserved world history bonus.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by ValenciaQBowl » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:55 am

I'd love to see the stats for this when y'all can get them together. I'm very curious, in particular, to see how the bonuses played.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Papa's in the House » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:39 pm

ValenciaQBowl wrote:I'd love to see the stats for this when y'all can get them together. I'm very curious, in particular, to see how the bonuses played.
David and I have been wondering as well
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Deckard Cain » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:36 pm

Yes, it's now the end of the week, so how about those stats?
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:47 pm

So...the good news is, I have the stats for this. The bad news is, they're located in an inline attachment and I'm having trouble pulling the actual SQBS files out, so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to upload them. They'll be up by the end of the day, though, once I figure that out.
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Re: GIT XIV (Delta Burke mirror) at WUSTL - November 7, 2009

Post by Charbroil » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:36 pm

So, here are the preliminary stats: http://results.scobo.net/Charbroil/GITXIV

Unfortunately, I haven't received the playoff round robin stats yet, so allow me a little bit of time to track those down.
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