NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

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NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:07 am

The NAQT site has placed the NJ STATE Championship on its schedule for April 17, 2010, and it is to be co-hosted by Princeton & Rutgers Universities, using IS SET 95.

I would like to thank the academic teams of both universities for taking initiative and for assuming the responsibilities of hosting this worthy statewide tournament, and I hope you can also answer a few questions this far in advance in order to provide as much exposure and information early on to give the tournament its best chance of maximum participation.

For example, is the April 17th date set in stone, or is this still flexible? I ask because some NJ teams signed up in early September to help launch the Caesar Rodney Rider Bowl in Delaware on this very day, a tournament designed to link the Northeast Teams in competition with the great teams from the Delaware & DC areas more easily. And now there is a difficult conflict for Jersey school who would like to honor both tournaments. Last week the NAQT site had March 27th as the scheduled date for this state tournament---any chance you could return to that date? Or another in March or April in order to help the long run quality of quizbowl throughout the entire region by helping the CRRB link two very talented regions that normally have a tough time playing each other? If Jersey teams and Northeast teams in general are to truly challenge themselves to get better, there is no finer competition to face than the teams from the greater DC area, who year-in and year-out produce the finest teams in the country. The CRRB would therefore allow Northeast teams a greater opportunity to play against the very best competition and gain all of the benefits that such an upgrade in competition should engender.

Further,and more specifically dealing with actual logistics, will the tournament be held at Princeton or Rutgers? Will efforts be made to advertise in the southern regions of NJ to make this as broad a field as possible? Will there be a cap on field size? If there is a cap, will this have any impact on the number of teams a school can register? etc. etc., etc.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, and thanks once again for offering to host, and I am sure every team in NJ that cares about quizbowl shares these sentiments. But I also must be candid---I hope this post has given you enough lead-time and sufficient reason to change the date so as not to interfere with the CRRB. But this is a REQUEST, not a demand, and I know you must do what is in the best interests of the 2010 State Championships. So, good luck with your decision, but still---could you change the date since you have almost 6 months to do so?

Thanks again.

(edited to elaborate on the conflict that the April 17 date creates for some NJ schools and the potential competitive breadth of the CRRB))
Last edited by Edward Powers on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:11 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010?

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:09 am

That's that same day we're hosting our tournament at Caesar Rodney... :neutral:
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010?

Post by Self-incompatibility in plants » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:21 am

Man, this is really unfortunate. Are Princeton and Rutgers not going to ACF Nats this year?
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010?

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:28 am

I know---hence I edited my post in order to try to persuade the hosts to re-consider the date, for SJHS and SHP both committed early on to your Rider Bowl and so I hope the hosts have been given enough lead-time to avoid a conflict with the CRRB.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010?

Post by Self-incompatibility in plants » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:30 am

Edward Powers wrote:I know---hence I edited my post in order to try to persuade the hosts tp re-consider the date, for SJHS and SHP both committed early on to your Rider Bowl and so I hope the hosts have been given enough lead-time to avoid a conflict with the CRRB.
Okay. Thanks, Mr. Powers. That is all we can ask.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010?

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:43 am

You're welcome---and I hope my request triggers a response from the co-hosts. I would hope that they can see the tremendous potential of the Caesar Rodney Rider Bowl for bringing the Northeast area teams into greater contact with the DC area teams and therefore they too would want to remove any obstacle to such a worthy competitive goal, for it can provide some wonderful new competition for both regions in an intelligent geographic half-way point like CR. So, here's hoping they will help by changing the date---it seems they would have enough time to do so, since NJ States are still not on many local radars yet.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:59 am

Yeah, this issue came up in the collegiate section. Basically, the constraints are:

1) Princeton wants to host Buzzerfest (their collegiate tournament) on March 27. Due to their desire to host this before ICT and ACF Nationals, and because of various spring breaks, March 27th is really the only day they can realistically host it.
2) Then, April 3rd is Easter.
3) Then, April 10th is NAQT ICT.

Basically, they're in between a rock and a hard place as far as scheduling is concerned. I'm frankly not sure what the ideal solution would be, or if there even is one.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:01 am

What's on the 24th? Or May 1st?
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Matt Weiner » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:02 am

Theory Of The Leisure Flask wrote:2) Then, April 3rd is Easter.
Well, April 4 is Easter. I'm not sure what the constraint on hosting a tournament the day before Easter is, especially since, given that it will be limited to New Jersey teams, no one will need to travel overnight and risk missing their religious services. It may be that Easter coincides with a lot of spring breaks and thus the whole weekend is a bad date for a tournament, but barring that possibility April 3 is a fine date; we at VCU are hosting a high school tournament then, in fact.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:06 am

Dr. Isaac Yankem, DDS wrote:What's on the 24th? Or May 1st?
Good point- moving it later might work; presumably the pitfalls with those dates are that you're giving any possibly newly-qualifying teams less time to sign up for HSNCT, and if you go too late you run up against finals periods. Moving it later does seem like a possible solution; but of course I'm not privy to any internal constraints that Princeton and Rutgers have that would preclude such a move. Hopefully they don't exist.

ETA:
Matt Weiner wrote:
Theory Of The Leisure Flask wrote:2) Then, April 3rd is Easter.
Well, April 4 is Easter. I'm not sure what the constraint on hosting a tournament the day before Easter is, especially since, given that it will be limited to New Jersey teams, no one will need to travel overnight and risk missing their religious services. It may be that Easter coincides with a lot of spring breaks and thus the whole weekend is a bad date for a tournament, but barring that possibility April 3 is a fine date; we at VCU are hosting a high school tournament then, in fact.
Doh, right.

I guess April 3rd isn't impossible, but it's not without it's pitfalls. A lot of folks regularly travel home to be with their families on Easter weekend (such as myself), which could limit the pool of moderators; and Holy Saturday services do exist, though they probably wouldn't remove that many participants.
Last edited by Theory Of The Leisure Flask on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Important Bird Area » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:16 am

Theory Of The Leisure Flask wrote:Good point- moving it later might work; presumably the pitfalls with those dates are that you're giving any possibly newly-qualifying teams less time to sign up for HSNCT
For that reason, tournaments held on those dates do not necessarily have a reserved berth for the champion at HSNCT. (We mean to encourage mid-April or earlier hosting, in order to ensure that newly-qualifying teams do in fact have time to secure funding and make travel arrrangements to Chicago.)
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by jonpin » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:53 am

We could also consider moving states earlier. Yes, it's weird to have invitationals after the state championship, but that's happened the last few years with Chatham anyway. I'm just going to list all the weekends in the state championship window and things that people might consider obstacles for each weekend. If BATE is happening, it should probably try to date-claim soon.

Jan 29: [no known conflict]
Feb 6: NAQT sectionals, bad for Princeton
Feb 13: [no known conflict]
Feb 20: ACF regionals, bad for Princeton
Feb 27: Prison Bowl, bad for teams
Mar 6: Livingston tournament, bad for teams
Mar 13: Princeton's spring break begins
Mar 20: Blue Hen @ Wilmington, Princeton's spring break ends
Mar 27: Buzzerfest, bad for Princeton
Apr 3: Easter/Passover weekend
Apr 10: NAQT ICT, bad for Princeton
Apr 17: ACF Nationals, bad for Princeton
Beyond this date, there is no longer a reserved bid for the state champions.

I might be missing some things, but this is what I see so far. I know there was an effort earlier in the year to try to find a mutually good date, but it is hard, I know.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:40 am

If Jon's schedule breakdown is correct, and I have no reason to doubt that it is, there seem to be only a couple of dates without conflict---January 29 (or is it the 30th?) and February 13th, since any tourney hosted AFTER the 17th does NOT get an automatic HSNCT bid for its champion.

So the question appears to be---would the co-hosts be willing to pick one of these earlier dates for STATES?

An alternative, I suppose, if these dates are not possible, would be to determine if the CRRB could move back a week, to April 24th, since I know this was an optional date for the CRRB when it was first contemplated. The problem, of course, is that some non-New Jersey teams have already registered for CR's April 17th date which CR published months ago. So, maybe there will be no solution if the earlier dates in Jersey turn out to be unacceptable, for whatever reason. Of course, it is still early, so perhaps a happy compromise can be found.

Perhaps the Caesar Rodney people would like to weigh in on this?
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:45 am

January 30th is the date of Penn Bowl, so hopefully they don't choose that date. February 13th is all clear as far as I know.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by olsb25 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:49 am

I'm sorry, I don't read these forums that often, and as such didn't see this thread until now. April 17th was a tentative date, which I told NAQT without realizing the conflict with CR. We are now leaning towards April 3rd, are there any major objections to this? I understand it's the day before Easter, but it seems that February 13th is much earlier than it's been held in the past, and January 29th is during our intersession (during which many people go home, do service trips, etc.).

EDIT: Also, addressing Mr. Powers' initial post, this is going to be at Princeton, barring room reservation issues, which we don't anticipate.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by Edward Powers » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:53 am

Kunle,

Even though February 13th is much earlier than usual, might it not be a better choice than April 3rd, since picking the 3rd does raise complex religious issues which could potentially shrink the field almost automatically? As someone indicated upthread, many people travel during this religious week to visit family and thus might even be out of state on such visits? I, for example, coach at a religious school, and at this moment I am not sure any of my kids would be available for the 3rd. Of course, once again, if the 3rd seems like the best date for most teams involved, then by all means you should select the 3rd. I just suspect that more teams might prefer that you avoid a conflict with religious holidays if you can do so.

What do you think? Perhaps a poll of Jersey schools might help before settling for one date or the other? Just a suggestion, of course, since there is still a great deal of time before either date. And thank you for responding so swiftly to the conflict on the 17th of April---I am sure the Caesar Rodney people appreciate your sensitivity to any conflict with the CRRB, as, of course, do I. Hopefully, we can find an excellent compromise date which will embrace the largest and best potential field for STATES.
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Re: NEW JERSEY NAQT STATE CHAMPIONSHIP APRIL 17, 2010??????

Post by jonpin » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:16 pm

Edward Powers wrote:If Jon's schedule breakdown is correct, and I have no reason to doubt that it is, there seem to be only a couple of dates without conflict---January 29 (or is it the 30th?) and February 13th, since any tourney hosted AFTER the 17th does NOT get an automatic HSNCT bid for its champion.
To clarify, all NAQT state championships and NAQT tournaments in general qualify top 15%. However, HSNCT generally fills the field. State championships have, the past few years, had a reserved berth allowing the champion to register even if the field was full (i.e. Team X hasn't yet qualified a team to nationals when the field fills, but wins their state championship. NAQT has reserved a spot for them to register. If they don't want to, or if the state champion is already in the field, the berth goes to the waiting list). At this point, BCA-A, BCA-B, Livingston A, and St. Joseph A have already qualified for HSNCT. Thus the reserved berth problem only would come into play should a different team win (of course, there are multiple opportunities between now and then for such teams to qualify).

If we don't need a reserved berth, that does open Apr 24, May 1, May 8, and May 15, though by that time you get into finals for both Princeton and some high schools.
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