Delaware 09-10

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Every other state has one of these, so why shouldn't DE have one too? Besides, Mr. CHRZ and I need a place to publicly talk between ourselves...

Okay, so here is what I predict the top 5 teams in the State will be:

1- Charter A: No surprise that they will still be the #1 in the state. With the loss of Gorman, I doubt they will be pummeling teams by 500 points anymore, but that is not to say that they still won't be an excellent team with deep knowledge in many subject areas. As Fred said, this is not a team that is rebuilding, but is rather just reloading. David Huang is the only returning player from the 2X National Champion A team, but the fact that he was able to put up 30ppg at NSC with so much other talent on the team is very impressive, so he will be the person to look out for on the A team this year. Other returning people from the successful B team include Alex, Billy, and Meg. Mr. Tressler knows what he is doing, and has formed many excellent teams in the past, and this one will not be any different. Granted we at CR have some hopes of beating them at least once this year, there is still no doubt in my mind that Charter will be the #1 team in the state.

2- Caesar Rodney: The #2 spot has traditionally been held by Charter's B team, but if our defeat of Charter B at NSC is indicative of anything, I think we many have finally earned this spot in the state. We have a very solid team, with no serious knowledge gaps in any subject areas. Our A team this year will consist of Ryan L. (senior), Alexa A (sophomore), Seth R (senior), and myself (senior). Ryan is what we like to call our "clean up" player, as he does not have any subject areas that are specifically his, but he can still get questions in any area. His strengths though, are in US History, Lit, and trash, and even if stats don't always show it, he is our team's second best player. Alexa is the up and coming player on our team, and she proved her potential when she got 6th overall at HAVOC II with 49ppg. She is the lit player on our team. Seth is our science player, and has an innate interest in science that makes studying for quizbowl very enjoyable for him, and he will often study not just for quizbowl, but out of a general desire to learn. He has lots of potential to be a great science player. Then there’s me. History, Fine Arts, RMP, Social Science, Geography, and recently Lit, are all the subjects that I tend to get for the team. All I need to do now is get better and build on my knowledge base, which I fully intend to do. All members of our team are aware of our potential, and have shown dedication and determination. All four of us have made at least 5/6 of our summer practices this summer, and we all will be doing independent studying out side of our 5-6 hours of practice a week. All we can do now is try to live up to the expectations that people have for us, and ensure that we do deserve the #2 spot in the state.

3- Charter B: I'm not sure exactly who will be Charter's B team this year, but if the past has taught me anything about Charter, I know that this team will still be very good. Losing to even lower Charter teams in the past, I know that Charter has very deep ranks of talented players, and I'm sure that fact will reflect in their B team.

4- Mount Pleasant- It seems that most people in the community know very little about this team, but I can attest to their ability. Peter Andrews is unquestionably this team's best player, and has scored very well in past tournaments (very often scoring between 40-60ppg). The other players on this team aren't exactly inept either, and also have lots of potential. I'm not sure if this team has any gaps in their knowledge, or how much in-depth knowledge they have, though. In the past, they have made tournaments all the way up at Harvard, and yet have also missed tournament less than 30min away from their school, so this team's ability will largely hinge on their dedication and consistency. Having talked to Peter before about their practice habits, it seems like they don't start practices until what is mid-season for most teams, and even then, don't practice too often (about once a week for 1-2 hours?). However, this team has tons ability, and unmet potential. They can be as good as they want to be. Charter teams, and ALL Caesar Rodney teams, will definitely need to look out for them.

5- Charter C: The situation for this team is the same as it is for Charter's B team, Charter's deep ranks of good players ensures that this team will be good.


Other Teams to look out for:
-Charter Teams D-F- Same situation as it is for the B and C team, just to lesser and lesser degrees.

- Archmere Academy- A very good academic school. They have not done anything notable in about 8-9 years, though they used to be the #1 team in the state, before Charter came on the scene. They still have lots of potential though.

-Wilmington Friends- Another good school, they only attended one tournament this year, if I recall, but they impressed me when we beat them by only 100points when we played them.

-Tatnall- Yet another good private school in Wilmington. Their stats show that they are a good, solid team, and they also have potential.

-Caesar Rodney B- Next year’s A team (minus Alexa), they are all decent quizbowlers, and will get most questions at the end. Don’t expect them to beat any of the top 5, but they are definitely in league with the other teams to look out… I hope. In any case, Mr. CHRZ and I are working very hard on grooming this team to try and ensure that the team does not fall of the face of the Earth when the class of 2010 graduates. We will have to see if our efforts pay off, though.

Delaware has steadily been improving over the years, and our State Championship last year featured more teams competing than ever in the State's history with 24 teams. I have no doubt that this trend of progress will continue in the 09-10 season.

EDIT: Misspelled a name.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Delaware's first thread EVAR. I think.

Anyway, Trey's mostly right, probably. You never know about a couple other private schools in Wilmington... namely Salesianum and St. Mark's, who field decent teams even though they hardly practice and when they do, they practice on crummy questions.

But Charter is clearly first, no doubt. I would say we're almost certainly second, but Charter is always so deep that a Charter B "upset" over us would be quite disheartening, but not mind-blowing. Mount Pleasant (a.k.a. Peter) can be great if they want to be, so we'll see where the commitment lies this year. Reasons for their inactivity i've heard in the last few years include play productions, a coach who is also the school's boys' soccer coach, lack of funds, and also complete lack of knowledge about when/where tournaments occur even though they know how many we go to.

So, it would be neat for Delaware to be more than Charter A, Charter B, Charter C, and those Caesar Rodney kids, so hopefully things will change for the better this year. We'll do our best.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

And those 2 (now 3) posts, will be the only posts ever made in this thread...

[Sacapuntas]

Hey, I do post here occasionally.

Thanks for the kind words about our team: I will take "not exactly inept" to be a compliment. Our A team this year looks to be myself (History, Pop culture, Music History, books I've read, Britney Spears), Aaron (Math, literature, random), Dan (Geography), Alexey (Chemistry, a little Biology, Russia), and Amy (my sister--literature, math, random). We should have a B team at least at Charter, NAQT States, and the Blue Hen, consisting mostly of up-and-coming players.

We have a new advisor who is not also the soccer coach, and we're also getting practice started earlier this year than most years. I'd say our primary issue is that we all have so much other stuff going on that it's hard to create enough space for AcBowl. But we're working on it.

Trey and Mr. C, we look forward to playing you guys and Charter A/B this year. With Charter coming back to Earth a little bit (and with the incredible dedication of your team), this could be one of the greatest seasons of DE AcBowl in years.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Thanks for the kind words about our team: I will take "not exactly inept" to be a compliment. Our A team this year looks to be myself (History, Pop culture, Music History, books I've read, Britney Spears), Aaron (Math, literature, random), Dan (Geography), Alexey (Chemistry, a little Biology, Russia), and Amy (my sister--literature, math, random). We should have a B team at least at Charter, NAQT States, and the Blue Hen, consisting mostly of up-and-coming players.

Don't forget your Rob Niedermeyer knowledge as well. The one sport that comes up that no one on our team would ever get a question on (well, unless i was playing), and it came up in a single-elimination game against your team. Ha, we make light of it a little bit now, but it was almost undoubtedly the most crushing loss for us the entire year, if not for the entire tenure that i've been coach maybe.

We have a new advisor who is not also the soccer coach, and we're also getting practice started earlier this year than most years. I'd say our primary issue is that we all have so much other stuff going on that it's hard to create enough space for AcBowl. But we're working on it.

I hear you on that one. Already for our first tournament, Ryan and Alexa can't go (and Seth can't go to the second one), so we're promoting some other seniors so they have one last time on the A Team.

Trey and Mr. C, we look forward to playing you guys and Charter A/B this year. With Charter coming back to Earth a little bit (and with the incredible dedication of your team), this could be one of the greatest seasons of DE AcBowl in years.

I hope! Whereas last year i think the goal might have been "beat each other and destroy weak Delaware teams," now i hope it's more like "play great games against each other and help make other Delaware teams better." At least, that's how i'm looking at it.

[Sacapuntas]

Rob Niedermayer! I forgot about that, actually. That may have been the most intense match I've ever played, with the possible exception of our victory over Charter at Comcast 07 by the slimmest of margins.

And I'm always up for the destruction of weak Delaware teams. I'd like to put up 600 points on Delcastle sometime... But that doesn't mean I'm not up for some high quality quiz bowl this year!

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Rob Niedermayer! I forgot about that, actually. That may have been the most intense match I've ever played, with the possible exception of our victory over Charter at Comcast 07 by the slimmest of margins.

And I'm always up for the destruction of weak Delaware teams. I'd like to put up 600 points on Delcastle sometime... But that doesn't mean I'm not up for some high quality quiz bowl this year!

I wish we saw that game against Charter. And hey, you almost beat Charter A (minus Henry) last year at Sallies, so that had to be good.

Our biggest win against Delcastle was by 520 (515 to -5), but maybe that'll improve this year as well.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Hey, I do post here occasionally.

Thanks for the kind words about our team: I will take "not exactly inept" to be a compliment.

Yea, sorry, I know you do post here occasionally.

About your teammates being "not exactly inept", I just wanted to make a point of letting everyone know that you are the unquestioned best player on the team, yet also enforce how it is still not a one man team, and that the other players do matter, even if they aren't nearly as good as you are. I apologize if my tongue in cheek explanation of that fact was taken as being rude.

We have a new advisor who is not also the soccer coach, and we're also getting practice started earlier this year than most years. I'd say our primary issue is that we all have so much other stuff going on that it's hard to create enough space for AcBowl. But we're working on it.

Trey and Mr. C, we look forward to playing you guys and Charter A/B this year. With Charter coming back to Earth a little bit (and with the incredible dedication of your team), this could be one of the greatest seasons of DE AcBowl in years.

Good luck with your new coach, and finding enough space to play quizbowl. I look forward to competing against you guys this year.

[Auroni]

I'll play interloper for just a second: rather than discussing which "weak Delaware teams" that your teams can easily "destroy," can you tell us about the lineups and attendance of said teams? Are any of them slated to attend non-NAQT tournaments in the region?

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

I'll play interloper for just a second: rather than discussing which "weak Delaware teams" that your teams can easily "destroy," can you tell us about the lineups and attendance of said teams? Are any of them slated to attend non-NAQT tournaments in the region?

Responding for Mr. C and Peter, the only teams that consistently come to tournaments that were not already on my list are Concord, Delcastle, Salesianum, AI Dupont, St. Marks and Ursuline (forgive me if I forgot any). All of which are in Wilmington, or the surrounding area in New Castle County (Caesar Rodney is sadly the only school from the lower two counties that has a team).

Most of these teams come to tournaments, talk to nobody outside of their own team, accept their loses, and come out of the day remembering only their record. It is because of this fact that I know little about most of these teams, but from what I do know, here is my breakdown of them:

Concord: They have always done pretty poorly at tournaments, but I have been talking with and helping some of the teams up and coming players , and have been giving them advice and how to get better, and how to better run their practices. It seems though that they have very little say on their team since they are newer to the team, so I'm not sure how much change they can institute, but they are nonetheless interested in improving and seem to like quizbowl, so I have hope for that team. The team also have a new coach who will hopefully take to the ways of good quizbowl and be a positive force for the team.

Salesianum: The have been good in the past, but has done nothing notable recently, so I don't know about them. Their coach has volunteered to host the NAQT state Championship a few times in the past at his school, so we know that he is, at the very least, not apathetic towards quizbowl.

Delcastle: I overheard a coach from Delcastle, tell their A team (who we just beat by 520 points) say, "wow, those questions were really hard, I think I knew 2 of them". That set was an NAQT A-set, btw. They always go to any DE tournament, and usually bring 2-3 teams, yet regardless of that positive fact, the team has shown no signs of improvement over the past 3 years, and always gets destroyed by everybody. I have little hope for them. Perhaps at some point at a tournament in the future, I will approach them and offer any help I can give to them.

St. Marks: They have been decent, but mostly that fact was because they had one decent player who would get like 30ppg, but he recently graduated, so I don't know what will happen to them.

Ursuline: They also goes to all DE tournaments, and have also hosted the NAQT State Championships before, but they have never really done anything significant in regards to their record of competition.

As for AI Dupont, I know absolutely nothing about them, sorry.

All DE teams, except for Charter, Mount Pleasant, and Caesar Rodney, compete in no tournaments except for Delaware ones, which always use NAQT sets. We, at CR, will be actively trying to convince these teams to compete at our tournament in April, which will use a HSAPQ set. We will also recomend any tournaments at the U of Pennsylvania, which may be even closer to them than our tournament down in Dover. However, none of these teams have ever even left their county before (except to attend our ever-important crappy TV competition, which was in Dover), let alone leave the state, so I can't say with any certainty that many of these teams will make the 45min trip from Wilmington to our tournament. Also, keep in mind that many, if not all of these recently mentioned teams have not even attended all of the 3 tournaments in their own County, in spite of that fact that Mr.C sends reminders to many of them about the tournaments available to them within what is at most a 30min drive, so their track record of attendance is certainly less than impeccable. We are doing our best though to try to increase the quality of quizbowl in DE, and to try and help these teams utilize the resources available to them, and I have faith that these teams, and the state of quizbowl in DE, will improve. I hope this gives some light into some of the lesser teams in DE, I'll do my best to answer any other questions anyone might have about the state.

[Nine-Tenths Ideas]

I can vouch for Trey's statement about team's coaches not helping matters. We played one team, I think Garnett Valley, at Blue Hen, and our moderator apparently taught there and knew some of the kids. After nearly every tossup she'd turn to whoever got it on our team and say "How would you know that?" and the players would shoot daggers at us. At the end, she said to the coach, clearly so that we could hear it, "I don't think teams from Maryland should come to Delaware tournaments."

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

I can vouch for Trey's statement about team's coaches not helping matters. We played one team, I think Garnett Valley, at Blue Hen, and our moderator apparently taught there and knew some of the kids. After nearly every tossup she'd turn to whoever got it on our team and say "How would you know that?" and the players would shoot daggers at us. At the end, she said to the coach, clearly so that we could hear it, "I don't think teams from Maryland should come to Delaware tournaments."

Wow, that's actually really embarrassing. I really wish I could have been there, to explain to her why she is so very wrong. Oh, and thank you reinforcing my point about why some coaches are such terrible forces for a team.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

I'll play interloper for just a second: rather than discussing which "weak Delaware teams" that your teams can easily "destroy," can you tell us about the lineups and attendance of said teams? Are any of them slated to attend non-NAQT tournaments in the region?

Also, we truly have no idea whatsoever which individuals are on which teams. Since they never communicate with us (or each other), we don't know which student is in which grade, so guessing about the next year is nearly impossible. We usually go on past experience, commitment, and enthusiasm, which for most of these teams Trey and i were talking about is basically close to zero. They come to only Delaware tournaments, never ever travel out of state, get walloped every time, think they're good when they beat an even worse team (see Delcastle, Delaware's proverbial whipping boys) 180-20, and repeat that cycle.

So to answer your question, i have no idea whatsoever what these teams' lineups are. And their attendance, unless something changes bigtime this year, will remain the same: Charter's December tournament, the rotating Delaware NAQT Championship sometime in the winter, and UD's March tournament. Those are all NAQT events. They may attend all those, and that's if we're lucky. I hope they come to ours in April but i'm not holding a lot of hope. The e-mails will go out like usual though.

[David Riley]

Wow does this discussion strike a chord....

Although we have some 500 teams in Illlinois, maybe only 100 of them travel to tournaments, and only 30 of those to good quiz bowl tournaments. While part of this can be attributed to lack of funds, I know of at least one fairly wealthy district where only one of the schools regularly attends tournaments. Many of the remaining 400 (ahem) only play in their leagues, and have a very clannish view of quizbowl; they (or perhaps, just their coaches?) love bad questions and honestly believe that all teams are created equal; when competing against better teams one often notices a "deer in the headlights" persona. So I can empathize. And Isaac, hopefully that Delawarecentric coach is in the minority.

But.....don't give up! While we still have a long way to go, Illinois has also come a long way in the past 15 years. I realize this may be a long time for the current high school student, but for whatever it's worth, future generations of players who want good quiz bowl will thank you for your effotrs.

Afterthought: I don't really understand the travel issues, though......Delaware is a much smaller state!

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Wow does this discussion strike a chord....

Although we have some 500 teams in Illlinois, maybe only 100 of them travel to tournaments, and only 30 of those to good quiz bowl tournaments. While part of this can be attributed to lack of funds, I know of at least one fairly wealthy district where only one of the schools regularly attends tournaments. Many of the remaining 400 (ahem) only play in their leagues, and have a very clannish view of quizbowl; they (or perhaps, just their coaches?) love bad questions and honestly believe that all teams are created equal; when competing against better teams one often notices a "deer in the headlights" persona. So I can empathize. And Isaac, hopefully that Delawarecentric coach is in the minority.

But.....don't give up! While we still have a long way to go, Illinois has also come a long way in the past 15 years. I realize this may be a long time for the current high school student, but for whatever it's worth, future generations of players who want good quiz bowl will thank you for your effotrs.

Afterthought: I don't really understand the travel issues, though......Delaware is a much smaller state!

The nice thing about Delaware is that there is a complete lacking of bad quiz bowl. We only had only 3 tournaments last year, all of which were on NAQT, which is pretty good in comparison to some other options out there, and that is largely thanks to Mr. Tressler from Charter at least partially directing all 3 of those tournaments (thanks, Mr. T!). However, for many schools, that also means a complete lacking of quiz bowl, period. At least 30 teams competed in the Comcast Academic Challenge, which was our TV competition, but since Comcast dropped their sponsorship, and the competition disappeared, roughly half of those teams no longer exist. Since there is no silver screen opportunity attached, or the chance for some money, I guess some teams don't feel quiz bowl is worth it(?). So there seems to be a clear trade off here in DE.

It is because of that fact that I honestly want our crappy TV competition to come back, just so I can reach out to the teams that would flock to it, and try promote and spread good quiz bowl to them. I remember us playing a team from Sussex Tech at the TV competition, and after we beat them, they seemed really excited that another public school could field a legitimate team, and truly seemed to want to get good themselves and compete in more competitions. Sadly though, we feel out of contact, and I have not seem them since the last Comcast Competition. Illinois has 500 teams, Delaware has less than 50, so the state is small enough, that I feel confident that we can reach out to a majority of these teams and convert them to the ways of good quiz bowl. Those teams just have to exist in the first place for that happen.

As for the teams that still do exist, some of them are incredibly frustrating because they don't even go to all of the competitions available to them (especially when those tournaments are like 15min away). I think the solution to this problem is to have everybody aware of the resources and oppurtunities available to them, and not just have the coaches know of them, but have the students and players be aware as well. Mr. C always email's the known coaches in the State, and reminds them about any upcoming tournaments, and I just wonder how many of these coaches talk to their teams about these tournaments, or for that matter even look at the emails themselves, because many of them never respond or attend any tournaments. The future of good quiz bowl is definitely in the hands of the players, just as much it is in the coaches, so I think I will look into creating an managing a website for Delaware quiz bowl teams that both coaches AND players can access, that will have tournament info, as well studying resources, in order to try to promote good quiz bowl from the ground up. Delaware is definitely a circuit that is small enough that it can be molded into a true model circuit for the country in a short amount of time (rather than the ongoing 15 year struggle that is being fought in Illinois), we just need to have enough dedication and determination to make it happen.

[btressler]

Now that there's an actual discussion going on:

When would you guys like the DE State Championship to be? With Comcast gone, we could do it in February.

The only things on my calendar at this time are:

1/30 I want to play in Penn Bowl with some of my seniors
2/6 there is a small chance we'll go to Gonzaga (but I can be talked out of this)

I didn't know about the Garnett Valley coach remark, but am not too bothered by it. You'll have this.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Now that there's an actual discussion going on:

When would you guys like the DE State Championship to be? With Comcast gone, we could do it in February.

The only things on my calendar at this time are:

1/30 I want to play in Penn Bowl with some of my seniors
2/6 there is a small chance we'll go to Gonzaga (but I can be talked out of this)

I didn't know about the Garnett Valley coach remark, but am not too bothered by it. You'll have this.

I would like to go to both those events myself (ZIGZAG in particular), so it would be very nice to avoid those dates. I'll post later about any conflicts or preferences CR might have.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Doesn't matter to me. So, sure, let's try to avoid those two weekends.

1-23 is probably fine... 2-13 is probably fine... again it doesn't matter much, i'm sure i can find a large contingent to go no matter what day cause my kids get excited to play Delaware teams.

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

1/30 I want to play in Penn Bowl with some of my seniors

Unless you are all in dual credit classes at UD, I'm pretty sure Penn Bowl is not traditionally an open.

[Important Bird Area]

A bunch of high schoolers, including a coalition team, played last year.

[Theory Of The Leisure Flask]

A bunch of high schoolers, including a coalition team, played last year.

Coalition/non-school/open teams were allowed to play, but only as exhibition teams ineligible for the championship. (Also in attendance was a group of Williams alumni, and Jonathan Magin.) While we haven't explicitly discussed eligibility rules, I would expect similar rules to be in effect this year.

[btressler]

Unless you are all in dual credit classes at UD, I'm pretty sure Penn Bowl is not traditionally an open.

Well yes we do offer UD classes here at Charter.

But I've already asked Mehdi for permission, which was granted on condition of a packet being submitted and that we are not eligible for any titles. I don't expect us to win more than a few rounds.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Let's update this.

As of right now, 4 Delaware schools have played at a quizbowl event: Charter, CR, Mt. Pleasant, and Tatnall.

A handful more will be playing at Charter in a few weeks: Delmar, Salesianum, Sanford, and Delcastle (possibly more to come), along with the four aforementioned teams (Charter fields a couple JV squads for this).

Here's where we stand at the moment.

Charter A
CR A
Charter B
Charter C / Mt. Pleasant A
Charter D
Tatnall A / CR B
the rest?

Charter A is really really good. Actually, almost certainly better than most teams thought. While it's still a goal for us to try to beat them once, ever, it's becoming apparent that that will be way more difficult than we might have imagined. But believe me, it's great competition to look up to and inspire us to greatness.

CR A has held their own at tournaments, and if our win against DCC A this Saturday says anything, it's that we can hang with the big boys a little bit and hopefully scare some of the elite teams. We've improved a lot, but still have a long way to go. We're excited though.

Charter's B team is still quite good and has played really well this year. Again, i think people are surprised how well they're playing, but it just goes to show the dedication of those kids and Coach Tressler, just like every other year.

I'm not sure which is better... Mt. Pleasant's top team or Charter C. Both have put up similar numbers on bonuses, both have had good wins, and both have had bad losses. But they're still quite decent. They will beat most other Delaware teams except for the ones previously stated.

Charter D is another team i'm not sure about... they upset Mt. Pleasant the other day, but then lost to a depleted Moravian team and went 0-5 in the consolation bracket playoffs to teams probably all just a little bit better than them. This team was hastily created though (they didn't commit to the event til Thursday), so, again, with the proper preparation and motivation, it can be yet another Charter team that scares A squads around the state.

Tatnall went to Princeton and did okay from what i hear (what's that you say? no stats from Princeton to look at? inconceivable!) and CR B has vastly underperformed this year including a walloping at UPenn and an 0-6 record. But i think both of these squads will start to turn it around. Or at least, i can say for our B Team, if they don't... they will see themselves not attending tournaments anymore.

I have no idea about the rest. Sallies can field a good team just because of the caliber of that school. The same goes for Sanford. Mt. Pleasant B isn't terrible, but they have a really really long way to go. Our C Team (a.k.a. our "lazy senior team") will win some games but they pretty much just want to have fun. And our D (and E?) Team... well they could do okay, but they're all very new to this for the most part. Delmar and Delcastle... all i'll say is good luck to you.

Thoughts? A lot of questions will be answered on December 12th, so we might just have to wait for that.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Any idea when NAQT States is going to be, Bill? 1-23 works... 1-30 and 2-6 do not, and 2-13 is iffy since we'll have 4-5 band people not able to go. The rest of February seems okay.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Let's do some more Delaware analysis.

Granted, this is all recent information from playing on an A set just last week... but it's better than nothing.

Revised rankings:

Charter A
CR A
Charter B
Mt. Pleasant A
Charter C
A.I. DuPont A
Sanford A
Tatnall A
CR B
Charter D
Salesianum A
the rest....

Charter didn't play at the tournament that they just hosted, but i still think we got a read on enough other teams to get an idea of what the rankings are at this point.

Charter A is still clearly the best and likely won't be surpassed, but we're trying our best (we lost to them at Penn, but that was the only game we've played against them this year).

I think CR A is second best, but we've yet to play the Charter B team and i'm sure that would be a really good game. Charter B has had some good wins so they're clearly a good team, but the lineup hasn't been consistent so it's hard to tell.

Mount Pleasant A played awesome on an A set but honestly that might be their best performance of the year. For whatever reason, Peter and Co. have played amazing on A sets for years and probably could beat us on a packet more than half the time right now. Speed is not our strong suit.

Charter C is probably on par with Mount, but they haven't played so it's hard to tell. But Mount impressed me so much last weekend that i had to bump them up a little.

A.I. DuPont and Sanford also played great this past weekend. Sanford's record doesn't show it, but if you look at who they played, their schedule was brutal in that they ended up facing three of the top four teams at the tournament, and lost all those games without really being blown out by much. A.I. played really well too and managed to beat us in our worst game of the day. Both of these schools are upset threats at any time.

Tatnall is emerging as a quality team but has a long way to go. They squeaked out a win against CR B but that's a matchup that could go either way. Right now, i'll put them on top because of the victory, but that's up in the air really.

Charter D is another one with consistency issues, so we'll see what happens when they get a lineup solid. Of course, it's Charter, so they're dangerous.

Sallies also played pretty decently last Saturday and can scare a few good teams, but probably will be hovering around a .500 record at a lot of tournaments. 15ppb is still commendable, even on an A set, and they've been good in the past so anything can happen.

"The rest" includes upstarts Delmar (welcome back to quizbowl!), CR C (whatever lineup that is), Tatnall B, A.I. B, Sanford B, Mount B, and of course Charter E-Z (well, probably just G or H, but hey you never know).

Whenever NAQT States are, we'll get a lot of questions answered, on better tossups with more than two and a half lines per question and hopefully a little more pyramidality. I'm excited to be using a modified HSAPQ/VHSL set in our tournament in April though; this might be the best gauge we see all year for Delaware teams.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

More analysis from me when I get back home tonight, but I just want to say that there is no way our B team is better than Charter D, or even Charter E, or maybe even Charter F. Charter's teams in the JV bracket both had excellent bonus conversions, better than the B team's conversion rates, and those teams were made of only Freshmen and Sophomores. Also, which B team are you considering to be our B team? The one with only underclassmen, or the one with seniors on it? Another thing I disagree with you on is the placing of A. I. Dupont. I think that A. I. Dupont has certainly improved by leaps and bounds, but is still ranked too high. I think your putting too many teams ahead of the lower Charter teams, and I don't think that is accurate. The fact that two of Charter's JV teams averaged 18ppb and 20ppb is very impressive, as we can only imagine that there could be several Varsity teams ahead of those two JV teams.

edit: added a comment

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

More analysis from me when I get back home tonight, but I just want to say that there is no way our B team is better than Charter D, or even Charter E, or maybe even Charter F. Charter's teams in the JV bracket had excellent bonus conversions, better than the B team's conversion rates, and those teams were made of only Freshmen and Sophomores. Also, which B team are you considering to be our B team? The one with only underclassmen, or the one with seniors on it?

Good point. You're probably right on every count. I forgot to compare a lot of the JV scores. And yeah, i'm not really sure what our B team is, i guess...

But i read to one of the Charter JV teams... they're freshmen. There really is a lot that they don't know that just 2-3 years in high school will get you. They're beatable by a B team of upperclassmen.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Also, I just want to emphasize that Charter A is sooooooo much better than we are, and I sadly don't see that changing anytime soon.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Also, I just want to emphasize that Charter A is sooooooo much better than we are, and I sadly don't see that changing anytime soon.

Pretty much. If we can't beat them with the team we have this year, and the talent they lost last year, it's never going to happen. But we'll try our darnedest.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

Oh! This is pretty much directed to Mr. Tressler, but at some point, I would like to have a discussion about what is going to happen with the DE NASAT team (assuming we will be having one, that is).

[btressler]

Oh! This is pretty much directed to Mr. Tressler, but at some point, I would like to have a discussion about what is going to happen with the DE NASAT team (assuming we will be having one, that is).

I have to get back to you on that. Frankly, it's my third priority after HSNCT and PACE. After I have a better idea of what we're doing for the first two, I can think about NASAT.

Since I didn't get to asking the coaches last week, and then there was this snow...

Is there a Saturday in February we could do the NAQT state championship? We plan to go to Gonzaga and Hunter. Would the 20th be OK with people? The reason I'd like to try it later this year is that moderating was a real issue last time. If we do it when UD is back in session, I will probably have an easier time getting a few of them to help us with the reading.

My next choice is to do it on the 23rd of January I guess.

If no one volunteers their school, I'm doing it at Charter.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Oh! This is pretty much directed to Mr. Tressler, but at some point, I would like to have a discussion about what is going to happen with the DE NASAT team (assuming we will be having one, that is).

I have to get back to you on that. Frankly, it's my third priority after HSNCT and PACE. After I have a better idea of what we're doing for the first two, I can think about NASAT.

Since we're not going to PACE, i guess it's our second priority, but, yeah, eventually we should figure out something. I'm not concerned.

Since I didn't get to asking the coaches last week, and then there was this snow...

Is there a Saturday in February we could do the NAQT state championship? We plan to go to Gonzaga and Hunter. Would the 20th be OK with people? The reason I'd like to try it later this year is that moderating was a real issue last time. If we do it when UD is back in session, I will probably have an easier time getting a few of them to help us with the reading.

My next choice is to do it on the 23rd of January I guess.

After a little bit of communicating, and a little bit of guessing at my own schedule, i'm inclined to agree with you 100%. February 20th would almost certainly be great, as that's the week after a big band trip that's eating about 4-5 of my kids. And January 23rd is fine too, my original preference, but you are right about moderators.

So, yes, 2-20 looks really good for us.

[Sacapuntas]

Mount Pleasant A played awesome on an A set but honestly that might be their best performance of the year. For whatever reason, Peter and Co. have played amazing on A sets for years and probably could beat us on a packet more than half the time right now.

I think one of our team strengths is a quick trigger finger... for whatever reason we win more buzzer races than we lose. I think we would have done even better if mathcomp were in the tournament, but I understand that it's not the most popular thing in the world.

It's been an interesting season... I look forward to seeing everyone at NAQT. Don't forsee any problems with the Feb. 20 date -- and I would volunteer Mount to host the tournament (we have a lot of food options just off-campus, easily accessible from I-95, and we have more than enough space) but I'm not sure how much support one needs from the building administration to pull off a tournament...?

Additional NAQT question: are there going to be computation questions? I vote yes, personally.

edits: added some more info

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

It's been an interesting season... I look forward to seeing everyone at NAQT. Don't forsee any problems with the Feb. 20 date -- and I would volunteer Mount to host the tournament (we have a lot of food options just off-campus, easily accessible from I-95, and we have more than enough space) but I'm not sure how much support one needs from the building administration to pull off a tournament...?

Additional NAQT question: are there going to be computation questions? I vote yes, personally.

We'd love to go to Mount. I think i've been there once before, many years ago, and you're right... it's easy to get to and does have a lot of good eating options around. What i don't remember is if any of them are within walking distance.

Anyway, i'm sure Mr. Tressler would be happy not to have to host another tournament, and i guarantee you that he would do ANYTHING you asked to help you run this one, including give you any advice you could think of.

Actually i would e-mail him at charterquiz AT gmail DOT com and ask. I think he would be thrilled that your school might want to do this. He can tell you the process you need to go through to make it happen.

Also, regarding mathcomp... we hate it, we don't think it's "good quizbowl," we don't agree that it's pyramidal in any sense... basically what HSAPQ says about it right here: http://www.hsapq.com/math.html I guess we would be okay with it being in bonus questions, just not tossups. Is that an acceptable compromise?

[btressler]

Don't forsee any problems with the Feb. 20 date -- and I would volunteer Mount to host the tournament (we have a lot of food options just off-campus, easily accessible from I-95, and we have more than enough space) but I'm not sure how much support one needs from the building administration to pull off a tournament...?

Your adviser might have a better idea. Basically we need classroom space around 9am-4pm. Last year there were 24 teams, so like 12 classrooms (provided there are 12 competent moderators).

For lunch, any of the following are doable: have teams go out, have teams call in for food like pizza, have someone sell food. We go with the third option at Charter because there isn't much nearby. I fear if teams went to Kirkwood highway for lunch we'd need like 90 minutes from the time the last room ended, which is not ideal. On the other hand, the first option is doable when we're at the University of DE.

The rest of the details, such as the schedule, can be handled right here on the board between the group of us.

Sometime after the break, let us know what you find out.

On another note, while in Dover today I think I saw the Saint Thomas More coach. Apparently he works in the Atlantic Book store on 13.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

So Mr. Tressler, get any responses from other schools about the dates? It's looking more and more like February 20th is the better date for us. VCU is also hosting something on January 23rd that we have an outside chance of going to as well... but don't let that swing your opinion really.

[Sacapuntas]

My advisor is going to talk to our administration about the possibility of having the tourney at Mount; I should have a firmer yes/no before next Friday.

Mathcomp... I don't want to start a massive Internet fight, but I feel that we should play with these tossups included. This is the NAQT state championship -- the purpose is to determine which school is the best at what NAQT defines as quiz bowl, and that includes tossups on mathematical competition. I think of it like the designated hitter rule in baseball. Whether you like it or not -- and whether you consider baseball with the DH to be acceptable / unacceptable -- that is the rule in the American League.

[Mechanical Beasts]

Mathcomp... I don't want to start a massive Internet fight, but I feel that we should play with these tossups included. This is the NAQT state championship -- the purpose is to determine which school is the best at what NAQT defines as quiz bowl, and that includes tossups on mathematical competition. I think of it like the designated hitter rule in baseball. Whether you like it or not -- and whether you consider baseball with the DH to be acceptable / unacceptable -- that is the rule in the American League.

That's a fine reason, on the whole, I'll admit, assuming that that is, in fact, what NAQT defines as quizbowl. I dispute that premise, though: it's not what NAQT defines as quizbowl for the college level nor for the high school national championship level. And NAQT is clearly moving away from computational math in its lower level sets, as well (and it seems the reason it was there in the first place was, at least in some part, because that's what teams wanted/ what the status quo had been years ago).

Moreover, I don't know why this tournament ought to be "the NAQT state championship" any more than "the championship of this state, with questions provided by NAQT." Since this tournament isn't run by NAQT, the latter is as close to the truth, if not closer, and the language doesn't seem to bind you in any way.

[Important Bird Area]

Warning: following post contains sports analogy.

NAQT's math-comp policy should be considered as all of MLB is to the DH rule, not just the American League. That is: we know there are strong opinions out there in both directions, and believe that the best policy for the present is to offer both math-comp and no-math-comp options to our customers.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

My advisor is going to talk to our administration about the possibility of having the tourney at Mount; I should have a firmer yes/no before next Friday.

Mathcomp... I don't want to start a massive Internet fight, but I feel that we should play with these tossups included. This is the NAQT state championship -- the purpose is to determine which school is the best at what NAQT defines as quiz bowl, and that includes tossups on mathematical competition. I think of it like the designated hitter rule in baseball. Whether you like it or not -- and whether you consider baseball with the DH to be acceptable / unacceptable -- that is the rule in the American League.

I will just say that the inclusion of math questions shouldn't be up to the tournament host... it should be up to the teams attending. Hopefully there can be some sort of coaches' vote through e-mail.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Mathcomp... I don't want to start a massive Internet fight, but I feel that we should play with these tossups included. This is the NAQT state championship -- the purpose is to determine which school is the best at what NAQT defines as quiz bowl, and that includes tossups on mathematical competition. I think of it like the designated hitter rule in baseball. Whether you like it or not -- and whether you consider baseball with the DH to be acceptable / unacceptable -- that is the rule in the American League.

That's a fine reason, on the whole, I'll admit, assuming that that is, in fact, what NAQT defines as quizbowl. I dispute that premise, though: it's not what NAQT defines as quizbowl for the college level nor for the high school national championship level. And NAQT is clearly moving away from computational math in its lower level sets, as well (and it seems the reason it was there in the first place was, at least in some part, because that's what teams wanted/ what the status quo had been years ago).

Moreover, I don't know why this tournament ought to be "the NAQT state championship" any more than "the championship of this state, with questions provided by NAQT." Since this tournament isn't run by NAQT, the latter is as close to the truth, if not closer, and the language doesn't seem to bind you in any way.

This is another good point. Peter, if you didn't know, the NAQT National Championship (which we plan on attending, likely) is choosing not to use any math computation questions for its tournament. It merely leaves them in their regular sets (a smaller amount than in any previous year, to my recollection) to teams can use them if they wish to, and has plenty of other questions left over to take their place.

[Important Bird Area]

Peter, if you didn't know, the NAQT National Championship (which we plan on attending, likely) is choosing not to use any math computation questions for its tournament. It merely leaves them in their regular sets (a smaller amount than in any previous year, to my recollection) to teams can use them if they wish to, and has plenty of other questions left over to take their place.

We abolished HNSCT comp tossups; it is likely that there will be a few comp bonuses still.

Sum total: 2009 sets had 2/0 comp at all levels of hs play.

2010 has 1/1 for IS sets and 0/TBD for HSNCT.

[Down and out in Quintana Roo]

Peter, if you didn't know, the NAQT National Championship (which we plan on attending, likely) is choosing not to use any math computation questions for its tournament. It merely leaves them in their regular sets (a smaller amount than in any previous year, to my recollection) to teams can use them if they wish to, and has plenty of other questions left over to take their place.

We abolished HNSCT comp tossups; it is likely that there will be a few comp bonuses still.

Sum total: 2009 sets had 2/0 comp at all levels of hs play.

2010 has 1/1 for IS sets and 0/TBD for HSNCT.

Right, i meant tossups.

I actually don't mind math bonuses too much... that's a compromise i'm willing to make, but would still rather not have.

[Self-incompatibility in plants]

My advisor is going to talk to our administration about the possibility of having the tourney at Mount; I should have a firmer yes/no before next Friday.

Mathcomp... I don't want to start a massive Internet fight, but I feel that we should play with these tossups included. This is the NAQT state championship -- the purpose is to determine which school is the best at what NAQT defines as quiz bowl, and that includes tossups on mathematical competition. I think of it like the designated hitter rule in baseball. Whether you like it or not -- and whether you consider baseball with the DH to be acceptable / unacceptable -- that is the rule in the American League.

In addition to the points being made about NAQT moving away from math comp, let me also just add that I don't think math comp would be enjoyed or converted by most of the students playing. At HSNCT last year, the math comp questions had some of the lowest conversion rates at the tournament, and I have no doubt that the situation would be similar at this tournament too. Granted though, there are some teams that do like them because they have one or two players who consistently are able to answer math questions quickly and surely like the points that math comp provides as a result of those few talented players. Whether or not there are few gifted players who can get their teams points should be a moot point though when pursuing to hold the best tournament possible.Those teams with the math comp players should still acknowledge and be aware of the reasons why not to have math comp. To help those teams understand the arguments against math comp better, here is a really good list of reasons why math comp isn't considered to be good quizbowl: http://hsapq.com/math.html.

I hope that helps, Peter.

[Sacapuntas]

I should have known better than to bring this topic up... Jeff -- thanks for the clarification on that analogy. That certainly clarifies NAQT's stance on mathcomp, and I appreciate the response.

I will just say that the inclusion of math questions shouldn't be up to the tournament host... it should be up to the teams attending. Hopefully there can be some sort of coaches' vote through e-mail.

I agree that this is the best way to resolve the issue -- none of us should have any real executive authority in this decision. Our position is certainly that mathcomp should be included, but it is the decision of all the teams in the state of Delaware that matters.

I don't think math comp would be enjoyed or converted by most of the students playing. etc etc etc

I disagree, Trey. The majority of our team is involved in the answering of and thoroughly enjoys math questions, and I can already imagine their reaction if I have to tell them that we will yet again be going to a tournament without math tossups. I understand and have read all of the debates on the subject, and I recognize the strength of the arguments against these types of questions. (Your coach also linked to the same list of reasons that you did at an earlier point in this thread.) Yet the fact remains that my team continues to recognize math as a part of quiz bowl, and I am simply pointing out our preference.

Regardless of the ultimate decision, I am sure that the tournament will be a fun and successful one.

[Important Bird Area]

We abolished HNSCT comp tossups; it is likely that there will be a few comp bonuses still.

Right, i meant tossups.

That's what I thought. Just wanted to make it crystal-clear to everyone reading this thread and not have to see "but I heard on hsqb that you got rid of the bonuses too!" next June.

I don't think math comp would be enjoyed or converted by most of the students playing. etc etc etc

I disagree, Trey. The majority of our team is involved in the answering of and thoroughly enjoys math questions, and I can already imagine their reaction if I have to tell them that we will yet again be going to a tournament without math tossups. I understand and have read all of the debates on the subject, and I recognize the strength of the arguments against these types of questions. (Your coach also linked to the same list of reasons that you did at an earlier point in this thread.) Yet the fact remains that my team continues to recognize math as a part of quiz bowl, and I am simply pointing out our preference.

We know that a lot of teams share your preference for math comp; but as a simple matter of fact, Trey is correct: most teams don't convert it.

2,971 computation tossups were read to tournament rooms between 2004 and 2009. That is a very large sample: 22 tournaments over five years, on 21 different IS and A-series sets. We can safely eliminate sources of error
such as "this group of players was less skilled at computation than the national average" or "the computation tossups in IS #76 were unusually hard; most of what we write is easier."

Of those 2,971 cases, the tossup was correctly answered 1,295 times. That's a conversion rate of 43.59%.

That's about six complete IS sets worth of nothing but dead math tossups. Full text of the memo available on request; the themes are similar to the HSAPQ policy mentioned above.

[jonah]

Full text of the memo available on request; the themes are similar to the HSAPQ policy mentioned above.

I request this.

[Important Bird Area]

Sent. Anyone else who's interested in discussing math-comp policy and would like to see this, please email me.

[Sacapuntas]

We've been cleared by our administration to host the tournament -- Mr. Tressler will follow up with details. We look forward to seeing everyone at MTP on the 20th.

[btressler]

Could people check this for accuracy, etc.

http://www.charterschool.org/clubs/acad ... esinfo.php

I will send it out by next Monday to coaches.

Addendum: Is everyone good with using set 92? Close tournaments using the set are the William and Mary event on 2/13 and Pittsburgh on 3/20.