Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Auburn's mirror of 2009 HFT will be this coming Saturday and Auburn High School in Rockford. Below is the team listing in alphabetical order. Note that this is a five-on-five event.
Auburn - 2
Belvidere North - 2
Culver Academies - 2
Guilford
Keith Country Day
LaSalle-Peru - 2
Loyola Academy - 2
New Trier - 2
St. Ignatius
Sterling
Sterling Newman
Stevenson - 2
Stillman Valley
Wehaton North - 2
Wheaton-Warrenville South - 2
Waitlisted: McHenry
The field is closed, but I supposed you can add yourself to the waitlist if that floats your boat.
EDIT: Attachments, Field corrections
Auburn - 2
Belvidere North - 2
Culver Academies - 2
Guilford
Keith Country Day
LaSalle-Peru - 2
Loyola Academy - 2
New Trier - 2
St. Ignatius
Sterling
Sterling Newman
Stevenson - 2
Stillman Valley
Wehaton North - 2
Wheaton-Warrenville South - 2
Waitlisted: McHenry
The field is closed, but I supposed you can add yourself to the waitlist if that floats your boat.
EDIT: Attachments, Field corrections
- Attachments
-
- HMAwards&Advancement 2.doc
- (37.72 KiB) Downloaded 202 times
-
- Driving Directions to Auburn 2.doc
- (12.97 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
-
- Harvard Mirror 09 Schedule.doc
- (22.5 KiB) Downloaded 414 times
Last edited by Charley Pride on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
- abnormal abdomen
- Rikku
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Two things.
a) I think she wanted this in the Illinois forum (is there even a difference?).
b) I don't think there are further admissions being made, due to limitations on moderators and whatnot.
a) I think she wanted this in the Illinois forum (is there even a difference?).
b) I don't think there are further admissions being made, due to limitations on moderators and whatnot.
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
- Irreligion in Bangladesh
- Auron
- Posts: 2123
- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
- Location: Winnebago, IL
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Hold the boat - Keith Country Day has a team? Somebody email me their coach's email address, please! (and actually, Belvidere North, Sterling Newman, and Stillman Valley's coach, too, I don't think I've got updated contacts for them either)
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
- abnormal abdomen
- Rikku
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
I'll get this to you by tomorrow. I have a cousin who goes there and is apparently on the Keith Country Day team, but wasn't able to provide the coach's email when I called her.styxman wrote:Hold the boat - Keith Country Day has a team? Somebody email me their coach's email address, please! (and actually, Belvidere North, Sterling Newman, and Stillman Valley's coach, too, I don't think I've got updated contacts for them either)
EDIT: Clarity
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Through 5:
Auburn is undefeated, beating St. Ignatius by 10 in the fifth power-matched round. Playoff RRs are starting now. I'd post stats, but I can't access my netfiles due to the RPS network being retarded.
Auburn is undefeated, beating St. Ignatius by 10 in the fifth power-matched round. Playoff RRs are starting now. I'd post stats, but I can't access my netfiles due to the RPS network being retarded.
-
- Wakka
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 pm
- Location: Stanford, California
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Is this the last scheduled mirror of HFT?
Kuo-Kai Chin
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19
- Mechanical Beasts
- Banned Cheater
- Posts: 5673
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Indeed.wexs883198215 wrote:Is this the last scheduled mirror of HFT?
Andrew Watkins
- Captain Sinico
- Auron
- Posts: 2675
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
- Location: Champaign, Illinois
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Top bracket final results:
Auburn A, 9-1
St. Ignatius, 8-2
Stevenson A, 7-3 (22.82 PBCPBC)
Loyola A, 7-3 (20.86 PBCPBC)
New Trier A, 5-5
Culver A, 3-7.
Per the rules, no final was played and the 3rd and 4th places were decided on points on bonus controlled per bonus controlled.
Auburn A, 9-1
St. Ignatius, 8-2
Stevenson A, 7-3 (22.82 PBCPBC)
Loyola A, 7-3 (20.86 PBCPBC)
New Trier A, 5-5
Culver A, 3-7.
Per the rules, no final was played and the 3rd and 4th places were decided on points on bonus controlled per bonus controlled.
Mike Sorice
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
- Jane Fairfax
- Wakka
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
As has been, said, Auburn A won the tournament with a 9-1 record. We finished 5-0 in the morning, while St. Ignatius, Stevenson, and Loyola all finishing 4-1 and New Trier and Culver having the highest PPB of the 3-2 teams.
Andrew Deveau easily was top scorer, finishing with 45+ more ppg than anyone else.
It was a good day of quizbowl and thanks to everyon who helped.
Andrew Deveau easily was top scorer, finishing with 45+ more ppg than anyone else.
It was a good day of quizbowl and thanks to everyon who helped.
Lloyd Sy
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
I apologize, but stats are unavailable for right now. The main file was on my flash drive, which I have somehow misplaced, much to my chagrin. Once I am able to procure it again, stats will be up shortly afterwards.
- abnormal abdomen
- Rikku
- Posts: 346
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
A big thanks to everyone who helped this tournament run well, especially the moderators and DTaylor for the statistics (which have apparently been temporarily misplaced). Today was fun, and we enjoyed the set (as well as Sorice's commentary on it, of course).
I eagerly look forward to NTV.
I eagerly look forward to NTV.
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
- Irreligion in Bangladesh
- Auron
- Posts: 2123
- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
- Location: Winnebago, IL
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Honestly there's no great reason. There was time for one, but the best reason for why we didn't have one would in fact be time limitations. I'd want an advantaged final next time.styxman wrote:Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Linda J. Greene
Rockford Auburn Coach
Rockford Auburn Coach
- Irreligion in Bangladesh
- Auron
- Posts: 2123
- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
- Location: Winnebago, IL
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
That's unfortunate. Welp, live and learn for next year, I suppose.Oliver Ellsworth wrote:Honestly there's no great reason. There was time for one, but the best reason for why we didn't have one would in fact be time limitations. I'd want an advantaged final next time.styxman wrote:Out of curiosity, why no advantaged final? (I see that the rules posted earlier do not allow for one - why don't they?)
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
- Boeing X-20, Please!
- Rikku
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:40 pm
- Location: Evanston, IL
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Well normally it is not done by head-to-head records, but rather overall and since Ignatius was 8-2 and Auburn was 9-1, Ignatius was only 1 game behind. Thus, normal (ACF-style) procedures would be to hold an advantaged final between Ignatius and Auburn with Auburn having the advantage.Coach G wrote:The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Nolan Winkler
Loyola Academy '12
UChicago '16
Loyola Academy '12
UChicago '16
- Maxwell Sniffingwell
- Auron
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
- Location: Des Moines, IA
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
The rules about the final as announced pre-tourney:
"If there is a tie in the upper bracket after round 10, another round will be played to determine the champion. If there is a multi-way tie after 10 rounds, e.g. 3 teams with one loss each, they will be ranked based on average bonus points per controlled bonus. The 2nd and 3rd place teams on that criterion will play either a half round or a full round (depending on what time it is then) to determine which one will play the other team for the championship. In other cases, to break a tie by record for ranking, we will use average points scored per bonus the team controls (this does not include rebound or stolen bonus points) for the entire day."
So while it would have been great to play an advantaged final (especially considering the closeness of the games between Auburn and St. Ignatius) and I supported the possibility of one happening, the tourney rules clearly stated: no final unless there's a tie for first place after ten rounds.
"If there is a tie in the upper bracket after round 10, another round will be played to determine the champion. If there is a multi-way tie after 10 rounds, e.g. 3 teams with one loss each, they will be ranked based on average bonus points per controlled bonus. The 2nd and 3rd place teams on that criterion will play either a half round or a full round (depending on what time it is then) to determine which one will play the other team for the championship. In other cases, to break a tie by record for ranking, we will use average points scored per bonus the team controls (this does not include rebound or stolen bonus points) for the entire day."
So while it would have been great to play an advantaged final (especially considering the closeness of the games between Auburn and St. Ignatius) and I supported the possibility of one happening, the tourney rules clearly stated: no final unless there's a tie for first place after ten rounds.
Greg Peterson
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
- Maxwell Sniffingwell
- Auron
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
- Location: Des Moines, IA
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Basically, under standard ACF rules, you play an advantaged final (two games, advantaged team wins tourney by winning either game) unless a team has cleared the field by two games after regular play finishes. So an ACF tourney would've had Ignatius-Auburn in round 11... and if Ignatius won, then Ignatius-Auburn again in round 12.MoCity02 wrote:Well normally it is not done by head-to-head records, but rather overall and since Ignatius was 8-2 and Auburn was 9-1, Ignatius was only 1 game behind. Thus, normal (ACF-style) procedures would be to hold an advantaged final between Ignatius and Auburn with Auburn having the advantage.Coach G wrote:The rules did call for/allow one. . .I think the rules posted are not the final version. Auburn defeated St. Ignatius, the second place team, twice during the regular ten rounds of play. That's why there was not another round between them. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by an advantaged final?
Auburn was 2-0 against St. I in regular play, but to count this as the tiebreak would basically forgive Auburn for the (of course, only relatively) "bad" loss they took against Loyola. Imagine if Auburn had lost to, say, New Trier as well. Then Auburn's still 2-0 against Ignatius, but RA and St. I have two losses each and we would've had a final.
Greg Peterson
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
So, basically, there should have been an advantaged final?
Andrew Deveau
St. Ignatius
Born on the same day as Austen
St. Ignatius
Born on the same day as Austen
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
What we did followed the rules we set out.
That said, I will say that I don't agree with the rules, and I partially take responsibility for not realizing the night before (when we were discussing format) that there was no stipulation for a true final match. This happened last year at NTV, and it happened again this past Saturday: the championship was decided between two teams when one of the teams beat a third team. Last year we lost to Loyola in the penultimate match of afternoon pool play, but we won the tournament when we won the last match against Carbondale. I don't think there ever should be an afternoon playoff decided without an advantaged final; it defies convention and makes for anticlimactic finishes.
A tournament winner should always be decided through a final match that both teams must have earn a right to play in, unless, in a freak circustance, there is a team with a distinct two-game advantage. I'm sorry this didn't happen at Auburn.
That said, I will say that I don't agree with the rules, and I partially take responsibility for not realizing the night before (when we were discussing format) that there was no stipulation for a true final match. This happened last year at NTV, and it happened again this past Saturday: the championship was decided between two teams when one of the teams beat a third team. Last year we lost to Loyola in the penultimate match of afternoon pool play, but we won the tournament when we won the last match against Carbondale. I don't think there ever should be an afternoon playoff decided without an advantaged final; it defies convention and makes for anticlimactic finishes.
A tournament winner should always be decided through a final match that both teams must have earn a right to play in, unless, in a freak circustance, there is a team with a distinct two-game advantage. I'm sorry this didn't happen at Auburn.
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
Andrew Deveau
St. Ignatius
Born on the same day as Austen
St. Ignatius
Born on the same day as Austen
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
If you're talking to me, I didn't take any hostility. I actually felt bad about how it ended up, and I was gonna type that message up anyway.adeveau wrote:That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Since posting of full stats will be delayed per Donald's earlier post, I'll give here some of the scores/results of matches among the top bracket teams.
You'll see that there were many great matches; I wish I could have seen more of them.
Day's records -
1st Auburn A 9-1 (5-0 AM), loss to Loy A in the PM
2nd St. Ignatius 8-2 (4-1 AM), both losses to Aub A, 1 in AM, 1 in PM
3rd Stevenson A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 2 losses to St. Ig - AM & PM, 1 loss to Aub A in PM
4th Loyola A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 1 loss to St. Ignatius in PM, 2 losses to Stev. A 1 in AM & 1 in PM
5th New Trier A 5-5 (4-1 AM), AM loss to St. Ig
6th Culver A 3-7 (3-2 AM), AM losses to Aub A and NT A
From AM Swiss power-paired rounds (played on rds. 1-5 of the Harvard questions) -
rd. 3: St. Ig 520 - NT 130, Stev 450 - Loy 270, Aub 470 - Culv 210
rd. 4: St. Ig 370 - Stev 360, Aub 610 - Stillman Valley 60 (the only round for the day with a team scoring over 600, I believe)
rd. 5: Aub 350 - St. Ig 340, Loy 480 - WWS 220*, Stev 490 - Aub B 120, NT 350 - Culv 260 * WWS was missing 1 or more starters all day
From PM bracketed rounds (top six teams based on AM were in this bracket) - played on rds. 6-10 of Harvard questions -
Rd. 6: St. Ig 340 - Loy 320, Aub 480 - Culv 220, Stev 570 - NT 170
Rd. 7: Stev 370 - Loy 340, Aub 510 - NT 180, St. Ig 520 - Culv 140
Rd. 8: Loy 360 - Aub 300, NT 290 - Culv 270, St. Ig 430 - Stev 240
Rd. 9: Loy 300 - NT 290, Aub 410 - St. Ig 240, Stev 430 - Culv 150
Rd. 10: Aub 480 - Stev 240, St. Ig 380 - NT 210, Loy 350 - Culv 250
You'll see that there were many great matches; I wish I could have seen more of them.
Day's records -
1st Auburn A 9-1 (5-0 AM), loss to Loy A in the PM
2nd St. Ignatius 8-2 (4-1 AM), both losses to Aub A, 1 in AM, 1 in PM
3rd Stevenson A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 2 losses to St. Ig - AM & PM, 1 loss to Aub A in PM
4th Loyola A 7-3 (4-1 AM), 1 loss to St. Ignatius in PM, 2 losses to Stev. A 1 in AM & 1 in PM
5th New Trier A 5-5 (4-1 AM), AM loss to St. Ig
6th Culver A 3-7 (3-2 AM), AM losses to Aub A and NT A
From AM Swiss power-paired rounds (played on rds. 1-5 of the Harvard questions) -
rd. 3: St. Ig 520 - NT 130, Stev 450 - Loy 270, Aub 470 - Culv 210
rd. 4: St. Ig 370 - Stev 360, Aub 610 - Stillman Valley 60 (the only round for the day with a team scoring over 600, I believe)
rd. 5: Aub 350 - St. Ig 340, Loy 480 - WWS 220*, Stev 490 - Aub B 120, NT 350 - Culv 260 * WWS was missing 1 or more starters all day
From PM bracketed rounds (top six teams based on AM were in this bracket) - played on rds. 6-10 of Harvard questions -
Rd. 6: St. Ig 340 - Loy 320, Aub 480 - Culv 220, Stev 570 - NT 170
Rd. 7: Stev 370 - Loy 340, Aub 510 - NT 180, St. Ig 520 - Culv 140
Rd. 8: Loy 360 - Aub 300, NT 290 - Culv 270, St. Ig 430 - Stev 240
Rd. 9: Loy 300 - NT 290, Aub 410 - St. Ig 240, Stev 430 - Culv 150
Rd. 10: Aub 480 - Stev 240, St. Ig 380 - NT 210, Loy 350 - Culv 250
Linda J. Greene
Rockford Auburn Coach
Rockford Auburn Coach
- Maxwell Sniffingwell
- Auron
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:22 pm
- Location: Des Moines, IA
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Ms. Greene misunderstood the term "advantaged final" - according to the tourney rules, no, there should NOT have been an advantaged final.adeveau wrote:That came off as more hostile than I meant it to. I really enjoyed the tournament and I was even okay with no advantaged final. I just thought that Ms. Greene said there should have been one. That's all.
Greg Peterson
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
Northwestern University '18
Lawrence University '11
Maine South HS '07
"a decent player" - Mike Cheyne
-
- Kimahri
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:21 am
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
Mrs. H
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
If you check earlier upthread, you'll read about my mishap with my flash drive. Stats will be up by Monday. Any questions, email me.[email protected] wrote:Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
- Irreligion in Bangladesh
- Auron
- Posts: 2123
- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:18 am
- Location: Winnebago, IL
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
And yeah, Donald's stats will be complete, including individual results. A hearty welcome for KCD to the quizbowl circuit - after years of watching you guys do well at ICTM and WYSE, it's wonderful to see your debut come at a good quizbowl event like Auburn's HFT mirror. We hope to see you at Huskie Bowl at NIU in February![email protected] wrote:Thank you Linda Greene for posting more results. Is this the official site for tournament results? There were more results in our local paper today but still looking for individual stats and the complete results. Will there be more than what was in the newspaper? Sorry for all of the questions, we are new to this. thanks!!
Brad Fischer
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
Head Editor, IHSA State Series
IHSSBCA Chair
Winnebago HS ('06)
Northern Illinois University ('10)
Assistant Coach, IMSA (2010-12)
Coach, Keith Country Day School (2012-16)
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
I apologize profusely for the delay, my flash drive was kindly sent to me by the person who found it, so the stats were recovered.
Prelims
Overall
Note: The bounceback was only used to remove bounceback points from the bonus conversion statistic. The B/C that was utilized is the conversion rate for bonuses controlled by that team.
If there are any errors, let me know, and I'll do my best to correct them.
Prelims
Overall
Note: The bounceback was only used to remove bounceback points from the bonus conversion statistic. The B/C that was utilized is the conversion rate for bonuses controlled by that team.
If there are any errors, let me know, and I'll do my best to correct them.
- JackGlerum
- Tidus
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:20 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
UIUC password protected for me.
- Mechanical Beasts
- Banned Cheater
- Posts: 5673
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Me too.JackGlerum wrote:UIUC password protected for me.
Andrew Watkins
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Hm, Donald's netfiles were working for me earlier but aren't now. In any events, the stats are also available here (prelims) and here (full).
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
-
- Lulu
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:27 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
John Lavender-Stott
Blacksburg High School '10
Blacksburg High School '10
- The King's Flight to the Scots
- Auron
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:11 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Well, no, bounceback stats are listed separately.sageorator wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
Matt Bollinger
UVA '14, UVA '15
UVA '14, UVA '15
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
The bouncebacks were taken out by adding in rebounds, which aren't really accurate. The bonus conversion shown is only for controlled bonuses, just like as if there weren't bouncebacks.sageorator wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
If someone can devise a way to accurately track bounceback conversion as well as regular bonus conversion without making it cumbersome for the people involved, I'm all ears.
As for the stats: I made a few corrections, but forgot to redo the permissions. They should be good now.
EDIT: As if I couldn't do even more stupid s*** today.
-
- Lulu
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:27 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.Journey to the Planets wrote:Well, no, bounceback stats are listed separately.sageorator wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were bouncebacks, which would inflate numbers.Journey to the Planets wrote:Pardon me here, but I'm surprised. Comparing these stats to the Decemberist stats, it looks like HSAPQ set 9 (or the bonuses, at least) was a good bit tougher than HFT. If someone wants, I can post a comparison, but really, an HSAPQ set shouldn't even be as difficult as HFT.
EDIT: I just noticed that this is a 5 on 5 event, which could screw up the numbers. Still, I think this should be looked into.
John Lavender-Stott
Blacksburg High School '10
Blacksburg High School '10
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
- Mechanical Beasts
- Banned Cheater
- Posts: 5673
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.dtaylor4 wrote:Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Andrew Watkins
-
- Wakka
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:02 pm
- Location: Stanford, California
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
He's talking about points per game though.Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.dtaylor4 wrote:Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Kuo-Kai Chin
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19
Walter Johnson High School '11
Harvard University '15
Stanford University School of Medicine '19
- Mechanical Beasts
- Banned Cheater
- Posts: 5673
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Not in the clause "they would influence B/C" which implies that bouncebacks would influence bonus conversion. Is that true if--as I see in the stats--points per bonus and points per bounceback are listed separately?wexs883198215 wrote:He's talking about points per game though.Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.dtaylor4 wrote:Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
Andrew Watkins
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
They are, in this case. The rebound stats aren't perfectly accurate, since the number of opportunities is wrong. There is a way to calculate rebound conversion percentage that I just thought of:Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Not in the clause "they would influence B/C" which implies that bouncebacks would influence bonus conversion. Is that true if--as I see in the stats--points per bonus and points per bounceback are listed separately?wexs883198215 wrote:He's talking about points per game though.Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:Don't those stats separate points per bounceback and points per bonus? I can't tell, I guess.dtaylor4 wrote:Bouncebacks still inflate PPG, just not to the degree that they would influence B/C.sageorator wrote:I was talking about the PPG, but looking back at the Decembrist, I see your point. Considering the criticism the initial incarnation of HFT got for difficulty, this should be looked at.
[30 * (opponent TU) - (BP scored by opponent on opponent-controlled bonuses)]/10 = rebound chances
points scored on rebound = total rebound points
rebound chances / rebound points = conversion
if the bonuses points are broken down, which can (and should) be done by the scorekeeper, then the proper data can be entered into SQBS.
- Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
- Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
- Posts: 5647
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
It's bonuses.bonuses
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Yeah, bonuses bounced back. Assuming the bounceback points are accurate (which they apparently aren't), then the real total points for Auburn would be 4670 - 700, and our real PPG without bouncebacks would be 397...does that sound more reasonable?
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
The amount of points gained off of bouncebacks should be accurate. The number of bounceback opportunities is in error.
- Charley Pride
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
I did notice that PPB were markedly higher at HFT, and that PPG was also legitimately higher, especially considering both tournaments had bouncebacks.
To the issue of bonuses, I would say that it could be a symptom of teams improving. Furthermore, I would say that teams looked awfully sluggish at Decemeberist for much of the day. I don't know how seriously people will take that statement, not am I sure how much it applies, but that's the only explanation I have.
The issue of PPG is resolved by the fact that higher level teams played fewer difficult games at HFT than at Decemberist. This explanation is based strictly on my memory of who we played and not at all on studying actual matches. There were matches at HFT where Auburn scored 590 and 610 points. Nothing of the sort happened at Decemberist.
To the issue of bonuses, I would say that it could be a symptom of teams improving. Furthermore, I would say that teams looked awfully sluggish at Decemeberist for much of the day. I don't know how seriously people will take that statement, not am I sure how much it applies, but that's the only explanation I have.
The issue of PPG is resolved by the fact that higher level teams played fewer difficult games at HFT than at Decemberist. This explanation is based strictly on my memory of who we played and not at all on studying actual matches. There were matches at HFT where Auburn scored 590 and 610 points. Nothing of the sort happened at Decemberist.
Zahed Haseeb
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Auburn High School 2010
University of Chicago 2014
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
This was power-matched though, right? That's always going to affect the prelim PPG. Decemberist wasn't.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
The prelims were power-matched. The playoffs were group RR based on the prelim record, then controlled PPB.Dan-Don wrote:This was power-matched though, right? That's always going to affect the prelim PPG. Decemberist wasn't.
Re: Harvard Fall Tournament at Rockford Auburn HS (IL) 12/12/09
Any corrections sent me have been incorporated into the stats. Still the same link.