Anticomputation article
Anticomputation article
Brad Fischer, Greg Gauthier, and I collaborated on an article for this quarter's issue of the IHSSBCA's newsletter that for the first time brings up the issue of eliminating computation tossups with the population of Illinois coaches at large. In case anyone else is interested, I have attached the article. Comments are very welcome.
 Attachments

 The Case Against Computational Tossups.pdf
 (27.78 KiB) Downloaded 541 times
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
 the return of AHAN
 Auron
 Posts: 1916
 Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm
Re: Anticomputation article
Good article. It needed to be said in a larger forum than HSQB. But don't be disapointed if it doesn't change the minds of those who don't embrace good quizbowl, though.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)

Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)

 CometCoach72
 Wakka
 Posts: 118
 Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:07 pm
 Location: Southern IL
Re: Anticomputation article
Add another math guy to the list of people who likes what the three of you have presented.
There are enough competitions specifically geared to math computation.
This can be accomplished in Illinois, if you keep chopping one computation question per year. I do like computational math, but replace it with meaningful questions such as you propose and I won't miss it.
There are enough competitions specifically geared to math computation.
This can be accomplished in Illinois, if you keep chopping one computation question per year. I do like computational math, but replace it with meaningful questions such as you propose and I won't miss it.
Jay Winter
Greenville HS (IL) Scholastic Bowl Coach and Chief UN Translator for Math
Decatur MacArthur Class of 1990  Illinois State Class of 1994  MS Ed SIU Edwardsville 2010
HarleyDavidson owner since 2009
Fan of Good Questions
Greenville HS (IL) Scholastic Bowl Coach and Chief UN Translator for Math
Decatur MacArthur Class of 1990  Illinois State Class of 1994  MS Ed SIU Edwardsville 2010
HarleyDavidson owner since 2009
Fan of Good Questions
 Dayo Dankole
 Lulu
 Posts: 11
 Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:36 pm
Re: Anticomputation article
Interesting that you make a point that you are all math majors and proceed to make an example of the most unmathematical statement possible: I have never seen X, so X does not exist. In your case, X= computational math question.
Matt LPHS ('12)
Re: Anticomputation article
Having computational math questions in a good quizbowl tournament not only requires the existence of good computational math questions (which we highly doubt exist, for the reasons we state in the article) but also the construction of said good computational math questions, which we have not seen. Therefore, if we can show that there is no feasible way to construct good computational math questions, our thesis of showing why the computational math distribution should be eliminated in quizbowl tossups is proved.Dayo Dankole wrote:Interesting that you make a point that you are all math majors and proceed to make an example of the most unmathematical statement possible: I have never seen X, so X does not exist. In your case, X= computational math question.
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)
Re: Anticomputation article
I don't know what you're talking about here. The article does not make the statement "I have never seen a computational math question, so computational math questions do not exist", which is what we find by substituting your value of X. Both the antecedent and conclusion of the statement you are discussing are false.Dayo Dankole wrote:Interesting that you make a point that you are all math majors and proceed to make an example of the most unmathematical statement possible: I have never seen X, so X does not exist. In your case, X= computational math question.
If you mean that we say "I have never seen a good computational tossup, so good computational tossups cannot exist", we don't say that. To use mathematical terms, we start from axioms (of what constitutes a good question) and prove that a good computational tossup cannot exist. Produce a counterexample if you can.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
 Dayo Dankole
 Lulu
 Posts: 11
 Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:36 pm
 The Time Keeper
 Auron
 Posts: 1541
 Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:26 pm
 Location: Michigan
Re: Anticomputation article
Oh.Dayo Dankole wrote:Oops. I meant "X=GOOD computational math question".
Those don't exist.
Pat Freeburn  No particular affiliation.
 Dayo Dankole
 Lulu
 Posts: 11
 Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:36 pm
Re: Anticomputation article
Lack of counterexample = proof ITT.jonah wrote:Dayo Dankole wrote: Both the antecedent and conclusion of the statement you are discussing are false.[/qoute]
Who says "antecedent"? Probably the same people who say "surd". Oh wait, did you write that surd question for last year's IHSA State Series?
jonah wrote:Dayo Dankole wrote:To use mathematical terms, we start from axioms (of what constitutes a good question) and prove that a good computational tossup cannot exist. Produce a counterexample if you can.
Matt LPHS ('12)
 Captain Sinico
 Auron
 Posts: 2840
 Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
 Location: Champaign, Illinois
Re: Anticomputation article
I hope you're being obtuse on purpose because you think it's funny. If you're not, you're really, really stupid and should probably never speak again until you know anything.
MaS
MaS
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014) & Team Illinois (20162018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (20002002; 20032009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (19992000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014) & Team Illinois (20162018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (20002002; 20032009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (19992000)
ACF
IHSSBCA
PACE