ANNOUNCEMENT: ANGST (Andy's Non-Guerrilla Summer Tournament)

maxis7 · Post by **maxis7** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:36 pm

If you or others are interested in signing up as free agents, I know we have 1-2 spots open on Michigan teams.

Surya, I would be interested as signing up as a free agent if there is still space in one of your teams. I can also help staff

Thanks

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:48 pm

I forgot to mention about the difficulty.

I'm going to try to aim for something between ACF Fall and ACF Winter for bonus difficulty. By this, I mean all bonuses should have one part that is considered easy, one part that is considered easy-middle, and one part that can be challenging or requires depth in the subject to answer correctly. On the one hand, I want to avoid the kind of bonuses that show up at fall that are basically giveaway 30s, but on the other hand I want to avoid the kind of bonus that sometimes show up at Winter where there are two genuinely tricky parts. For tossups, I'm going to be a bit more lenient. The majority of the questions should be answered in all rooms, but I'm not opposed to having several lines of more difficult material and/or having the occasional answer line that pushes towards regionals/nats level of difficulty. There will also be powers, because they're awesome.

Finals (if I can get them together), will try to use bonuses that are only slightly more difficult, but I'm going to try to throw in at least a couple of harder tossups/ harder clues to challenge the best teams at the main site. I know this is all a little nebulous, but I hope this clears up at least some concerns.

bmcke · Post by **bmcke** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:16 pm

I don't exactly know who's on my team right now. The free agents might have to be spread around as "fifth players" on a bunch of different teams.

Ringil · Post by **Ringil** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:58 pm

maxis7 wrote:
If you or others are interested in signing up as free agents, I know we have 1-2 spots open on Michigan teams.
Surya, I would be interested as signing up as a free agent if there is still space in one of your teams. I can also help staff

Thanks

My team of Bryan Berend/Neil Gurram/me would be happy to have you ;)

Masked Canadian History Bandit · Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:37 pm

At least two people can come down from Lisgar. We can write a pack if needed.

maxis7 · Post by **maxis7** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:41 pm

Ringil wrote:My team of Bryan Berend/Neil Gurram/me would be happy to have you ;)

Thanks, that would be great! See you on the 10th.

Windows ME · Post by **Windows ME** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:09 pm

Just for the record, I will be full-time staffing/moderating this tournament.

Camelopardalis · Post by **Camelopardalis** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:27 pm

The room numbers Ben posted above are all correct. The room reservations have been extended until 10pm. Also, Andy was supposed to pick up a set of keys to open the building early, but since that seems like it's not going to happen, I can meet someone in Ottawa (Ben?) to drop off the set of keys that I have.

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:49 pm

OK so how much harder is ACF Fall compared to, say, the PACE NSC 2010? (i chose the NSC because the questions are available online and the HSNCT ones aren't)

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:30 pm

I'm going to tentatively expand the field to 11 teams, given that Sinan and I will be moderating, there will only need to be 3 people on each team in order to ensure 5 game rooms worth of moderators. If this happens, one of the additional teams will be a combination of Lisgar and Centennial, and the other will be from St. Catharine's- both of whom have expressed interest to me in attending.

Patrick, from Lisgar, do you have a problem with this? Also, can you contribute a packet by next weekend? I'm waiting for confirmation from St. Catherines, and if they drop, then I'm going to stick with 9 teams, because I want to either run this with 9 or 11, and not 10.

firebat03 · Post by **firebat03** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:25 pm

kdroge wrote: People at UTS, while I don't need your packet immediately, I'd like to get a scope of approximately how much you guys can write- do you think you'll be able to get an enitre packet done, or a half packet? Please let me know ASAP. In order to have time to edit, I'm going to put a tentative deadline for packet submission ay next friday at midnight.

Hey, I think we should be able to get a whole packet together by next Friday. Thanks!

Mechanical Beasts · Post by **Mechanical Beasts** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:01 am

JaceTheMindSculptor wrote:OK so how much harder is ACF Fall compared to, say, the PACE NSC 2010? (i chose the NSC because the questions are available online and the HSNCT ones aren't)

The past two ACF Falls are in many respects more accessible than the past two PACE NSCs.

Benjammin? · Post by **Benjammin?** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:07 pm

To all of the free agents still out there, Michigan C (Ben F, Saul H, Phil G) still has a spot open, and room at the Days Inn.

Gautam · Post by **Gautam** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:48 am

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
JaceTheMindSculptor wrote:OK so how much harder is ACF Fall compared to, say, the PACE NSC 2010? (i chose the NSC because the questions are available online and the HSNCT ones aren't)
The past two ACF Falls are in many respects more accessible than the past two PACE NSCs.

Hey,

To clarify this a little: PACE NSC is written with the intent of differentiating between the very best teams at the high school level, and a decent number of the questions wouldn't be out of the league for a "regular difficulty" tournament like Penn Bowl. A significant proportion of the answer choices, though, are largely derived from "things you'd encounter in high school/expect highschoolers to know." ACF Fall, on the other hand, is written primarily as a tournament that introduces collegiate quizbowl to the new player; many of the answerlines would probably be something that you'd find at high-school level tournaments. However, the leadins and the middle clues (for tossups) and the hard parts of bonuses are more difficult than what you'd find in a highschool set. Answerlines for ACF Fall tend to include "things you'd encounter in introductory collegiate courses for a given topic" and so on.

neil.walford · Post by **neil.walford** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:57 am

I can volunteer my services as a moderator. Hopefully this will make things easier for the organizers, as we can have another room going if need be.

Masked Canadian History Bandit · Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:01 am

kdroge wrote: If this happens, one of the additional teams will be a combination of Lisgar and Centennial, and the other will be from St. Catharine's- both of whom have expressed interest to me in attending. Patrick, from Lisgar, do you have a problem with this? Also, can you contribute a packet by next weekend? I'm waiting for confirmation from St. Catherines, and if they drop, then I'm going to stick with 9 teams, because I want to either run this with 9 or 11, and not 10.

Well driving prospects for Lisgar recently went up, so we'll hopefully be able to field a full team. Centennial is closer to UGuelph and can probably get some people. I dont't know about St. Catherine's, but Woburn is trying to get a team, so from this mélange, they'll probably be enough for 2 extra teams (i.e. minimum 6 players). Also, due to the collaborative nature of Lisgar's packet, splitting us up would be detrimental to question security.

I have about a quarter of the pack done so far, but I'm not really too confident if I've hit the "between ACF Fall-ACF Winter" difficulty area among other things. Would you mind if I send you what I have so far for a quick opinion?

Also, are there estimates for when A. ANGST proper will end, B. the 1st side tournament (if any) will end, and C. the 2nd side tournament will end? Thanks.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:02 pm

The thing is that "probably able to field two teams from a mix of people" isn't really good enough, especially in this type of situation where there really needs to be an odd number of teams at the event for it to at all work. I'm trying to get into contact with people to get confirmations, but unless another team besides Lisgar steps up and says that they definitely can go, it's looking like 9 teams might be more likely. We have enough mods to go to eleven, but without teams that are for sure going (and packets to play on, for that matter), I can't make any promises that we can expand to 11 teams. The other point is that there is room for people to play in the tournament on teams that aren't full yet, and, if this was to be done, they already have packets submitted so free agents joining those teams wouldn't need to work on a packet- This is also practical because they can absorb 4-5 people (just an estimate), which would be most of the two teams' worth that would make the expansion to 11 possible anyways.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:03 pm

I'll mention it to the club in our Wednesday meeting, but if the Brendan/Yohan team is still only 2 people, I think we can absorb it into our other Ottawa teams and just make sure that they are subbed out for the round their packet is read. That would give space for another full team (ie: high schoolers) within the confines of 9 spots.

If anyone's interested, I can fit 12 teams into a 10-round schedule (two pools and 3/3 crossovers; 8 games and 2 byes per team). We would need to come up with enough packets, but it would be a way to fit in lots of people.

I have also asked about the keys to the building, which may change our starting time (and our finishing times for the various events).

sds · Post by **sds** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:41 pm

Getting to 11 may be easier now, since Neil has very kindly volunteered his services as a staffer. That puts us at 3 full time moderators, which means that a given team would only need 2 players in order to cover 5 game rooms.

Bosco and Patrick - if you can each confirm that you're able to bring 1 extra person, we'd have enough to safely declare 11 teams.

EDIT: I've been informed that the Brendan/Yohan team may already have a full 4 players. Nonetheless, there's still room for 1 on the Ben/Saul/Phil team, and somewhere up to 4 spots available on potential Woburn/Lisgar teams, so it should be possible to fold in quite a few people if need be.

Masked Canadian History Bandit · Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:31 pm

I have talked with Dan Carter from Centennial, and Bosco from Woburn, and we all (Lisgar included) have at least three people coming from their school.

Windows ME · Post by **Windows ME** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:40 pm

bsmith wrote:I'll mention it to the club in our Wednesday meeting, but if the Brendan/Yohan team is still only 2 people, I think we can absorb it into our other Ottawa teams and just make sure that they are subbed out for the round their packet is read.

This is key. Even though editing is going reasonably well at this point, we need their packet badly (Their packet + UTS packet + Lisgar packet and you guys will have 9 + 2 finals packets to play ... still have no idea how this is going to work. Ben?)

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:13 pm

We have seven packets right now, with UTS and Brendan's pending. There should be a half packet coming from the East, and a Lisgar packet, so the packets work out okay for this setup. The problem is that these packets aren't actually in our hands now, so it's kind of holding up what we can do. St. Catharine's has officially dropped out. There still should be enough people to field two teams between Centennial, Woburn, and Lisgar, keeping Brendan and Yohan on their own team so that there would be eleven teams to play with. If Centennial, Woburn, and Lisgar are a sure deal, and I actually get a packet by Lisgar and the half packet from out East, this should work.

A reminder: The deadline for packet submission is this Friday at midnight (slack allowed for late night work, i.e., when I wake up on Saturday is fine), but if the packets I'm expecting aren't submitted by then, I do want to reserve the right to contract the field to nine teams if the editing just isn't feasable to be completed in time for the event.

firebat03 · Post by **firebat03** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:33 pm

kdroge wrote: There still should be enough people to field two teams between Centennial, Woburn, and Lisgar, keeping Brendan and Yohan on their own team so that there would be eleven teams to play with. If Centennial, Woburn, and Lisgar are a sure deal, and I actually get a packet by Lisgar and the half packet from out East, this should work.

UTS actually has 5 people who can come, so one of us could join another team if that helps with the problem.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:30 pm

How many packets will the set have? I need this info to set a field cap for ECSO2.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 pm

For the purposes of mirroring, there are going to be 11 packets (2 of them finals) guaranteed; it's possible there will be 13 instead if the field expansion goes through and I get the packets from people.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:55 pm

Thanks to Chris, I now have the keys to the building and we can start at 9 AM in Mackinnon 117. Spread the word to participants.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:10 pm

I am just reminding everybody, again, that the packet submission deadline is tonight.

UTS, I have received your packet.

I'll be able to guarantee 11 packets plus two for finals tomorrow when I've received packets from the teams who have yet to submit them.

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:16 pm

@Kurtis: I have finally scrounged up four Woburn people. Is it OK if we can get you at least a partial packet this weekend?

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:23 pm

Also, I talked to Sinan on FB, he told us to submit a partial pack within the next few days.

Masked Canadian History Bandit · Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:59 am

I have sent in a complete Lisgar packet+extra questions written for more choice. In other news, Lisgar has 4 people who are going to go down, and possibly one more.

JaceTheMindSculptor · Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:04 pm

OK turns out I lied, Woburn only has three people. However, we're still aiming to get a pack done by Sunday, hopefully late submissions can still be accepted.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:18 pm

So, the field can now officially be eleven teams.

4 Ottawa
3 Michigan
Will, Gautam, Waterloo
UTS
Lisgar
Woburn

Woburn, it would be nice if you could try to get in a partial packet during the next few days. It's not absolutely required, but I'm sure it would be helpful- how about you just send me whatever you can get done during the weekend, and then we'll call it good after that?

This also means, that, for mirroring purposes, there will be 11 regular packets and then two finals packets.

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:45 pm

@Patrick: If it turns out Woburn can only field 3 (or maybe even 2, cuz one might be forced to go to his cottage, not sure yet, though he has said that he wants to go to this tourney), can you spare us a person?

And to everyone out there, if you have extra people, mind letting one play with woburn?

Masked Canadian History Bandit · Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:24 pm

JaceTheMindSculptor wrote:@Patrick: If it turns out Woburn can only field 3 (or maybe even 2, cuz one might be forced to go to his cottage, not sure yet, though he has said that he wants to go to this tourney), can you spare us a person?

I can't make anyone do anything they don't want, but I know that some of my team would be interested in "experience playing with other teams." I guess that means they don't appreciate being on my team. We'll see.

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:32 am

Masked Canadian History Bandit wrote:I can't make anyone do anything they don't want, but I know that some of my team would be interested in "experience playing with other teams." I guess that means they don't appreciate being on my team. We'll see.

That means they don't want to be overshadowed by your mad skillz. You should take it as a compliment.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:39 pm

I'm checking with Chris if he has any information contrary to this, but Guelph's website suggests that the main food court is closed on weekends during the summer. If so, the nearest things for lunch would be a grocery store, a coffee shop, or a car ride away.

I'm offering to order a bunch of pizzas for the tournament. To keep things simple, it would be split between plain and pepperoni pizzas, but let me know if teams would want in on 1/4 of an x-large pizza + drink per person for $4-$5. You can reach me by email at ben_smith_85 -AT- yahoo.ca if you don't want to post here. If I get decent interest by Wednesday evening, I'll make an order on Thursday. Also, if someone would like to bring a bundle of paper plates and napkins in exchange for free lunch, that would be appreciated.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:27 am

I've had some questions about fees, and I think that, overall, the fairest thing to do (for the main site) is to charge a flat fee of twenty dollars per team. I know that this may seem unfair to teams that got their packet done way ahead of time, but not only do I really have no way of knowing how early people actually had their packets done because I didn't get any until two weekends ago, I also have the feeling that a lot of the teams that submitted packets just before the deadline did so because they weren't sure that the tournament was happening until a short time ago, or that the field would be able to accommodate them. I think it would be unfair to charge them more simply because they thought this event wasn't happening. In addition, every team has at least submitted some questions and tried to help out with the writing process. If anyone feels like this is grossly unfair, or that this fee will stop them from coming to the tournament, or something like that, let me know and we can work something out.

As to mirroring, the set will be available starting the weekend of the main site. Please contact me (if you haven't already done so) just so I don't forget to send you the set on time. As far as mirroring fees go, I'm open to anything at all reasonable.

Editing is running smoothly, but I don't expect that the set will be ready for looking over until Thursday, which I know is tight, but editing the additional two packets will take more time than I thought. The difficulty is shaping up to be fall-winter level on bonuses and on most of the tossups, with a few harder tossups just to keep people honest. Finals is closer to regionals difficulty, again with more variance on tossup difficulty than on bonuses. The distribution will be fairly standard, with 4/4 each of sci, history, and lit, and then 8/8 chosen at random from 3/3 arts, 3/3 rmp, 2/2 ss/geo, and 1/1 trash; the 2/2 ss/geo will include 0/1 or 1/0 econ, and at least 1/0 or 0/1 geo, with the possibility of 1/1 geo.

kdroge · Post by **kdroge** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:28 pm

Also, given that this tournament will be held in Canada, and a lot of the writing teams are from Canada, there will be more Canada questions than usual- partially because of this, there will be slightly less than 1/1 US history per packet.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:56 pm

Are there any delayed mirrors?

itsthatoneguy · Post by **itsthatoneguy** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:41 pm

Just to make things clear, one of the Michigan teams will consist of myself, Libo Zeng, Neil Gurram (MIT, formerly of Detroit Country Day), and Chris Lionel (Toronto).

Windows ME · Post by **Windows ME** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:34 am

kdroge wrote:The difficulty is shaping up to be fall-winter level on bonuses and on most of the tossups, with a few harder tossups just to keep people honest. Finals is closer to regionals difficulty, again with more variance on tossup difficulty than on bonuses.

Just checking in to let everyone know the science is also of approximately this difficulty. Although, in all categories, there is the very very occasional "pushing ACF Nationals level" tossup, this set is accessible to pretty much everyone at all levels.

Mechanical Beasts · Post by **Mechanical Beasts** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:51 am

My role in working on the science of this tournament is going to be somewhat bigger than I'd thought.

EDIT: That was needlessly vague because I hadn't had any caffeine yet. Anyway, I'm going to be actually editing (if lightly) a few questions instead of just advising.

Sima Guang Hater · Post by **Sima Guang Hater** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:06 pm

Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:My role in working on the science of this tournament is going to be somewhat bigger than I'd thought.

Praise !Xu

JaceTheMindSculptor · Post by **JaceTheMindSculptor** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:16 pm

anyone know how to get to guelph by public transport from toronto?

maxis7 · Post by **maxis7** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:09 pm

JaceTheMindSculptor wrote:anyone know how to get to guelph by public transport from toronto?

One way would be the greyhound, from Bay and Dundas, which gets to the Univ. of Guelph campus in an hour or so. There are buses at 7 am and 8:30 am. The cost should be around 20 bucks (return), thanks to Greyhound Canada's student discount:

http://www.greyhound.ca/home/

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:08 pm

maxis7 wrote:There are buses at ... 8:30 am.

There had better not be anyone taking this - we're starting at 9.

Also, so far only the Ottawa and Michigan groups are interested in my earlier pizza offer about 10 posts up. Last call before I make an order tomorrow (but I'll probably throw in another pizza for any stragglers that weren't aware).

adosreme · Post by **adosreme** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:20 pm

bsmith wrote: Also, so far only the Ottawa and Michigan groups are interested in my earlier pizza offer about 10 posts up. Last call before I make an order tomorrow (but I'll probably throw in another pizza for any stragglers that weren't aware).

I can't speak for anyone else on my team, but I would be interested in getting in on this. Are you able to accommodate individuals into your plan?

women, fire and dangerous things · Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:45 pm

adosreme wrote:
bsmith wrote: Also, so far only the Ottawa and Michigan groups are interested in my earlier pizza offer about 10 posts up. Last call before I make an order tomorrow (but I'll probably throw in another pizza for any stragglers that weren't aware).
I can't speak for anyone else on my team, but I would be interested in getting in on this. Are you able to accommodate individuals into your plan?

Same here, so that's half our team, at least.

Gautam · Post by **Gautam** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:56 pm

women, fire and dangerous things wrote:
adosreme wrote:
bsmith wrote: Also, so far only the Ottawa and Michigan groups are interested in my earlier pizza offer about 10 posts up. Last call before I make an order tomorrow (but I'll probably throw in another pizza for any stragglers that weren't aware).
I can't speak for anyone else on my team, but I would be interested in getting in on this. Are you able to accommodate individuals into your plan?
Same here, so that's half our team, at least.

Oh hey, I opted in on this plan thru the Michy pool, so that's 75% of us.

--Gautam

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:28 am

There's about 30 people for pizza, with nothing from the high school teams (which is OK, if they want their own food options). The full-time staff can have free lunch. Unless I hear otherwise by this afternoon - say, 3 PM - I'll order for 36. Drinks will be cans of Coke, Sprite, and some bottled water.