Chicago Open Side Event Wrangling

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:22 pm

To avoid cluttering up the main CO thread anymore, I'm starting this thread as an attempt to organize the various side event rumblings.

The way I see it, events can be run Friday night, Saturday night (after CO), and all of Sunday.

These are the events that I have heard talk about, with links to their respective threads if possible:

Andrew Hart's Bob Loblaw Law Bowl: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=10702, tossups only

Aidan Mehigan's Architecture Tournament: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =9&t=10855, tossups only

Auroni Gupta's Singles/Doubles/Quads thing: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=11433, tossups only

Michael Hausinger's Engineering Event: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =9&t=11447, very short, tossups only

Mike Cheyne's TERD: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 19&t=11194, a full length trash tournament

Mike Bentley's Trash Tournament: a full length trash tournament

Michel Foucault's Archaeology of Knowledge: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=10314, a full length tournament

I have heard discussion that some folks (Mik Larsen/Jeff Hoppes, although I think independently of each other) have an interest in either writing a history tournament OR compiling some sort of guerrilla history theme packet tournament.

I can't speak to Fred, but I think our movies tournament died off. Don't blame Fred here, he's been doing a bazillion good things for quizbowl. He's a good man.

Usually, some enterprising soul wants to do a literature tournament. Did Krik? Krak! Moo bite the dust? http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 21&t=10357

Sorry if I forgot anything. You should post any other ideas here, and then maybe we can set up a formal poll of some kind. The smaller events could be jammed into Friday evening, Sunday evening, or Saturday night (or all day Sunday if we choose not to run a formal tournament). TERD would need to be run on Sunday, as would the esteemed Mr. Foucault's event, although it appears Michel wanted to do it right after CO.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:37 pm

Cheynem wrote:I have heard discussion that some folks (Mik Larsen/Jeff Hoppes, although I think independently of each other) have an interest in either writing a history tournament OR compiling some sort of guerrilla history theme packet tournament.

I would very much appreciate the chance to actually play an all-history side event, but since 2007, the history of history side events by people other than me has been a history of vaporware.

The King's Flight to the Scots · Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:46 pm

I'm not sure how far along people are in writing all these side-events (although my guess is not very), but I think we could have a compromise here that doesn't involve running 6 different extremely niche events. Mike Cheyne suggested a kind of guerrilla style tournament, with a packet from each of these projected events: maybe an architecture packet, followed by a law packet, followed by an engineering packet, maybe followed by Chris Ray's unused stuff from Walden III, etc. It requires less time and effort from the writers and takes up less time in the schedule, whereas running all these events at different tournaments would, at best, be very difficult and (frankly) tedious. Does this sound like a workable idea, or do people really want to complete their respective tournaments?

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:50 pm

A lot of these events seem very niche; they might work best as lunch-break events at big tournaments like VCU Open, Minnesota Open, etc. A set of 60-70 tossup on somebody's pet topic could easily be read in a fairly short amount of time to a small audience.

My suggestion would be to focus on 1-2 big side events with broad appeal at Chicago Open (probably subject tournaments), and then to either euthanize the rest of the proposed events or shift them to another venue, or possibly to lunch.

Post by **Kouign Amann** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:14 pm

I'm not super concerned that my event get played at CO. I'd be happy to run it pretty much anywhere/anytime else, if people want. I'll gladly cede CO time to any of the above events.

Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat · Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:53 pm

I don't care where mine would get played, if anyone actually would want to play it. Longer events would probably be a good idea.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:13 pm

I might be interested in contributing to a history side event.

Also, I have 100/100 for CULT 2 written at the moment. I could likely make that 10 to 11 packets for a co trash tournament, especially if I could get someone to help out with sports. I think this might be more desirable to me than writing a full sequel to CULT for next year.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:17 pm

I can selfishly say that would be fantastic and I would happily push my event back. Perhaps the inestimable J. Hoppes and J. Vinokurov, who offered to write baseball and basketball for my event, could chip in sports questions to yours.

I would also be willing to write a number of history packets for any sort of event.

grapesmoker · Post by **grapesmoker** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:55 pm

Bentley Like Beckham wrote:Also, I have 100/100 for CULT 2 written at the moment. I could likely make that 10 to 11 packets for a co trash tournament, especially if I could get someone to help out with sports. I think this might be more desirable to me than writing a full sequel to CULT for next year.

I'd be happy to assist in the area of NBA basketball and soccer. Let me know how much you need of each.

ValenciaQBowl · Post by **ValenciaQBowl** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:11 pm

As a selfish person who plans to add nothing to any side events for CO, I'll only say that some sort of well done trash event for Sunday would be nice, as the two CO trash events I've played have been great. I'd volunteer to help with writing some side event, but I so rarely get to play that I'd rather reserve the CO weekend for my dinosaur answering efforts. I do promise to lead in negs once again for any trash tournament produced, though.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:12 pm

I do promise to lead in negs once again for any trash tournament produced, though.

I think Charlie Rosenthal begs to differ with you, sir!

AKKOLADE · Post by **AKKOLADE** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:24 pm

No movies side event I'm associated with will be done for CO.

No Rules Westbrook · Post by **No Rules Westbrook** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:41 pm

I too would rather see people work together on more general events, than fracture off into a thousand very specific niche events...especially when finding time for even one or two side events is going to be chore enough.

Scipione_Borghese_Fan · Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:27 pm

While we are at it, would anybody want to hear a Mini side event centered on 17th Century Papal politics? I'm sure there is a lot of demand for tossups on the Wars of Castro, or the Pamphilji Family, Ippolito Aldobrandini, etc. I could also include a lot of "trashy" 17th century subjects such as the Scandal caused by Scipione Borghese's philandering with Stefano Pignatelli. If people want some more counter-reformation era intrigues, we could extend the time period to the beginning of the Council of Trent.

I think this would be accessible to people of all calibre, including high school and ACF Fall. I mean, with tossups on things like "Cardinal Nephew" and "Galileo" we should have mass appeal for this tournament. I already have 3 tossups written, and I think I could get 50 done by the end of July.

MicroEStudent · Post by **MicroEStudent** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:40 pm

Bentley Like Beckham wrote:I might be interested in contributing to a history side event.

Also, I have 100/100 for CULT 2 written at the moment. I could likely make that 10 to 11 packets for a co trash tournament, especially if I could get someone to help out with sports. I think this might be more desirable to me than writing a full sequel to CULT for next year.

If you'd like any football help, let me know.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:42 pm

So there seems to be support for a guerilla history subject tournament at CO. Anybody (or group) willing to step up and take it to the next level?

I can offer logistical advice and contacts, given that I've done this, what, four times now?

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:50 pm

I would be willing to write a packet or two for such an event. If a number of history buffs would be willing to contribute a packet, this would not require too much of wrangling aside from finding a time and place to do the event in (perhaps this could be the fabled Friday night event).

rylltraka · Post by **rylltraka** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:41 pm

I will, against my better judgment, commit to writing a packet for this.

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:10 pm

Morraine Man wrote:So there seems to be support for a guerilla history subject tournament at CO. Anybody (or group) willing to step up and take it to the next level?

The idea I had for this was:

Mike Cheyne's US history packets inspired me to suggest that it would be awesome to have an entire tournament of history theme packets. So I have answers selected for: English Civil War packet, all-Dark Ages packet, important battles that haven't been tossups before packet.

Logically, it makes sense for this to be a CO side event because:

1. June is the best time to write for an experimental vanity tournament because it is the only month on the calendar with no NAQT packet deadlines

2. This tournament would be of outrageous difficulty, and likely only at CO (if anywhere) would it find an appropriate audience.

Of course, if people would rather play a conventional history guerrilla tournament, I would be happy to submit a packet to that instead.

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:13 am

OK. So let's do a packet submission tournament. We can form teams of n people (where n can equal 1) and submit packets. At a later time, people who didn't contribute to a packet can join a team for some kind of higher fee.

Maybe a few history players who are not attending CO can look over the packets, and at least remove any egregious tossups or repeats? Or at least tell the submitters to re-write them? Chris Chiego and Kyle Haddad-Fonda, I am looking at you.

I'd lean towards a normal distribution rather than theme packets, but can see the fun in both. What do other people think?

We should also pick a guerilla group to name the tournament after. I nominate the Polisario Front.

Ringil · Post by **Ringil** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:54 am

I'd be willing to write a packet for a guerilla history tournament. I'd prefer regular history distro, even though I'd need help writing some questions if that is the case. However, if we decide to go for theme rounds... prepare for some things that have never appeared before :)

grapesmoker · Post by **grapesmoker** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:01 am

Sure, why not? I would suggest that in the spirit of true guerillatude, everyone writes a few more questions than is necessary (24 tossup for a packet of 20, say) and then the overlaps will just be crossed out. Plus, I'll finally have somewhere to put my tossup on the Affair of the Spani... OH SHI

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:45 am

I've e-mailed Bruce in a confab about this, but my thought is:

*A team of two or so writes a normally distributed history packet and then plays the other teams in typical guerrilla doubles/triples/quads style.
*If anyone has the yearning to write a wacky theme packet, those will be read at the end in perhaps a shootout format because of the presumably niche format.

grapesmoker · Post by **grapesmoker** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:50 am

Why don't we just go with normal packets? This whole novelty packet thing is amusing once in a while but I bet at 10 PM after the main event has finished, those 20 tossups on Soviet history during the NEP are going to seem a lot less hilarious than they do now.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:53 am

I think we were in discussion for a Friday night event which would give us more time. Also, would you deny Jeff Hoppes his fun? WOULD YOU?

grapesmoker · Post by **grapesmoker** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:07 am

Cheynem wrote:I think we were in discussion for a Friday night event which would give us more time. Also, would you deny Jeff Hoppes his fun? WOULD YOU?

Yes.

Oh, ok. So, in the past, Friday events have been tough to make for some people with jobs, so if we're shooting for Friday, can we do it at some reasonable time like 8 or something? I can take off work an hour or two early if I need to, but not 5 hours early.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:17 am

Morraine Man wrote:Maybe a few history players who are not attending CO can look over the packets, and at least remove any egregious tossups or repeats? Or at least tell the submitters to re-write them? Chris Chiego and Kyle Haddad-Fonda, I am looking at you.

Yeah, sure.

EDIT -- in fact, if you want, I can write a finals packet

Skepticism and Animal Feed · Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:21 pm

Please see:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11458

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:45 pm

Okay, so that's down for Friday night.

The biggest thing is Sunday during the day--I selfishly support Mike Bentley's trash thing, especially if he has so much done already.

ValenciaQBowl · Post by **ValenciaQBowl** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:05 pm

Please excuse my ignorance if I've missed this, but are any side events locked in at this juncture besides the history doubles happening Friday night? I see a lot of speculation in this thread, but if I'm not missing something, it looks like the only locks for the weekend are history on Friday night and CO proper on Saturday.

Is Auroni's general-distro tournament going to happen on Sunday? Any trash? What pipes and timbrels?

No Rules Westbrook · Post by **No Rules Westbrook** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:00 pm

To the extent that it's my decision to make as head CO editor (I'm not sure it is...because certainly people could just overrule me and play whatever the hell they want, when they want) - the only event that I've given a definite go-ahead for is the Friday night history. And, I did that because it seemed to have some decent momentum behind it - and it is an established kind of general interest event.

I know Auroni's thing is out there - and that seems like the next most definite suggestion for an event.

I wonder if anyone would be willing to go in with Auroni - maybe do some sort of hybrid academic and trash event? Maybe expand Auroni's event into something that could be held part Saturday night and part Sunday?

I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. I'd rather see lots of people play a general interest event in the premier time slots - rather than have all of us divide up and go to separate rooms to play niche law or engineering or carpentry bowl (not to make fun of those perfectly charming events) - but that's just my preference, who am I to say.

Duncan Idaho · Post by **Duncan Idaho** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:17 pm

No Rules Westbrook wrote:I wonder if anyone would be willing to go in with Auroni - maybe do some sort of hybrid academic and trash event?

As a probable non-participant in CO but a possible participant in a 2012 CULT II, I like this solution because it preserves more Mike Bentley trash for a reincarnation of CULT, while sating people's desire for some difficult trash. It can also (to some degree) assuage some people's concerns that Auroni wouldn't be able to write a many-round event for CO while still planning to write for THUNDER III.

Mike Bentley · Post by **Mike Bentley** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:13 pm

I was planning on doing a full trash event on Sunday. I don't really like the idea of making it into some sort of hybrid thing--I doubt the difficulty will even out correctly, for instance.

Auroni · Post by **Auroni** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:18 am

Yeah, the point of my tournament is to offer a non-convoluted event that's a straightforward, easy and relaxing experience after tons of grueling quizbowl. Since people seem to be backing history guerilla and trash at this point, I guess I'll take my event off the list for CO weekend so people can actually get food and some sleep after CO proper on Saturday. I'll still produce my tournament and will read it online at some point.

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:21 am

Couldn't you just attach it to an actual tournament instead of online?

Post by **Auks Ran Ova** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:37 am

Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be ten thousand times smarter to use these eight packets of regular-difficulty tossups for something like, uh, THUNDER?

Mechanical Beasts · Post by **Mechanical Beasts** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:52 am

Ukonvasara wrote:Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be ten thousand times smarter to use these eight packets of regular-difficulty tossups for something like, uh, THUNDER?

And then maybe if THUNDER ends up with eight packets it doesn't need, those can become the side event.

Auroni · Post by **Auroni** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:41 am

Ukonvasara wrote:Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be ten thousand times smarter to use these eight packets of regular-difficulty tossups for something like, uh, THUNDER?

No, because I have two different goals for these two tournaments. The tossup-only event is intended to have some answer lines that I would not include at THUNDER because they would see low conversion in the setting of a college tournament strictly intended for all active collegiate players playing with their universities, but would see relatively higher conversion in a field where almost every team has some of the best players in the country.

grapesmoker · Post by **grapesmoker** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:13 am

every time i refresh i have a new name wrote:
Ukonvasara wrote:Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it be ten thousand times smarter to use these eight packets of regular-difficulty tossups for something like, uh, THUNDER?
No, because I have two different goals for these two tournaments. The tossup-only event is intended to have some answer lines that I would not include at THUNDER because they would see low conversion in the setting of a college tournament strictly intended for all active collegiate players playing with their universities, but would see relatively higher conversion in a field where almost every team has some of the best players in the country.

Why don't you just read the hard tossups online and save the normal ones? This all seems to be very ill-conceived and a poor use of your efforts.

No Rules Westbrook · Post by **No Rules Westbrook** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Okay, so it looks like Bentley is spearheading traditional Trash to be held on Sunday - so that's set.

As for Auroni's event - you can produce the set and play it by ear if you want - If there's time to do a tossup-only event of 8-10 rounds Saturday night (that would probably only take a few hours) - then by all means, I say go ahead.

Obviously, people could decide to play or not to play as they please, but I'm sure most would play.

Maxwell Sniffingwell · Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:34 pm

So what has been decided so far schedule-wise?

Cheynem · Post by **Cheynem** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:38 pm

Friday Night--History Doubles
Saturday--CHICAGO OPEN, apparently followed by Law Bowl
Sunday--trash

Post by **theMoMA** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:43 am

Cheynem wrote:apparently followed by Law Bowl

Confirmed.