2013 NAQT HSNCT: Congratulations LASA!

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:40 pm

naqt.com wrote:NAQT is pleased to announce that its 2013 High School National Championship Tournament will be held at the Hyatt Regency Atlanta hotel on Memorial Day weekend, May 24-26, 2013.

The field for the tournament is limited to 256 teams.

Full details

Current field

Down and out in Quintana Roo · Post by **Down and out in Quintana Roo** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:39 pm

Is there a chance of this tournament expanding to 256 teams as I heard some talking about last month?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:54 pm

Yes, there is some chance of expanding the field, but we will start with a 240-team base.

Sniper, No Sniping! · Post by **Sniper, No Sniping!** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:18 pm

Does NAQT plan to post the results of the surveys teams filled out with regards to "where would you like to see HSNCT 2013 played?" (or have they already, and I'm just that naive?).

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:23 pm

We will post the survey results once they are compiled; and, yes, location change is on the table for the 2014 HSNCT.

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) · Post by **Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:10 am

Down and out in Quintana Roo wrote:Is there a chance of this tournament expanding to 256 teams as I heard some talking about last month?

Is 256 really a magic number for the card system? I don't know enough about the math behind it all, but doesn't the fact that you have to have a large percentage of the field on bye every game mean that you aren't actually working with a pure 256-team power matching? If so, that would mean 256 is no more special than most other numbers the HSNCT might use I would think.

Mechanical Beasts · Post by **Mechanical Beasts** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:41 pm

Horned Screamer wrote:
Down and out in Quintana Roo wrote:Is there a chance of this tournament expanding to 256 teams as I heard some talking about last month?
Is 256 really a magic number for the card system? I don't know enough about the math behind it all, but doesn't the fact that you have to have a large percentage of the field on bye every game mean that you aren't actually working with a pure 256-team power matching? If so, that would mean 256 is no more special than most other numbers the HSNCT might use I would think.

Certainly, I don't think it has to mean that. The proportion of x-y teams on bye each round can be calibrated so that only x-y vs x-y matches happen until after round 6, at which point that guarantee fades. For 240, the guarantee (if not the possibility, I guess) fades after round 4.

Deviant Insider · Post by **Deviant Insider** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:09 pm

256 is in fact a magic number. The byes don't impact who plays who. With 256 teams, every team would be guaranteed to play each of their first eight matches against a team with an identical record, and at least 236 teams would play each of their ten matches against a team with an identical record.

Just to be clear, the actual number of teams without mismatches would be very close to 236, and there is a very reasonable chance it would be exactly 236. Also, no teams would start the day with a guarantee of no mismatches--the statistic means that at the end of the day at most 20 teams would have played mismatches. The maximum number of mismatches for those teams would be 2, and unfortunately the teams with 2 mismatches would play them in the same direction.

Post by **jonpin** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:39 pm

As noted above, the byes are basically irrelevant. This year with 240 teams and 80 rooms, the 15 round prelims could be split into blocks of 3. During rounds 1-3, all teams played two games. A third played 1-2, a third played 1-3, a third played 2-3. Given infinite space, that could have been 120 round 1 games and 120 round 2 games. I don't exactly know how a 256-team tournament would split up, but a similar idea of having everyone's first game, then everyone's second game, and so on with overlaps in the actual time at which they occurred wouldn't be a problem.

The fact that a team which plays two mismatches plays them in the same direction is unavoidable. Obviously the team that goes 8-0 will play a mismatch in their ninth game, and if they win they'll play another in the tenth round. Because 256 = 2^8, all games for the first eight rounds are equal matches, and it's not possible for a team to play up in their ninth game and down in their tenth or vice versa (such a combination would leave open the possibility of a two-step mismatch were the team's ninth game be reversed).

cvdwightw · Post by **cvdwightw** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:06 pm

A 256-team tournament can in theory be run with the following considerations (as in, the math works out, but I haven't checked an entire card system):

LOGISTICS:
-Each team plays 10 games in 16 rounds.
-The number of prelim rooms remains the same as 2012.
-Somewhere between 95 and 98 teams make the playoffs. Of those, 43 to 45 start in the winner's bracket.
-The number of playoff rounds remains the same as 2012.

UNEVEN-RECORD GAMES:
-4 teams play exactly 1 game against a team that may not have the same record; 16 play 2 such games.
-In only 2 games could a team be eliminated from playoff contention by losing to a team with a stronger record (Round 15: 5-3 vs. 4-4; Round 16: loser of Round 14 6-2 vs. 5-3 game vs. winner of aforementioned game).
-In only 3 games could a team be eliminated from playoff contention by losing to a team already eliminated from the playoffs (Round 15: 4-4 vs. 3-5; Round 16: 5-4 vs. winner of aforementioned game; Round 16: loser of Round 15 5-3 vs. 4-4 vs. 4-5).
-In only 2 games (all of which already mentioned above) can a team be guaranteed to make the playoffs by defeating a team with a lower record.
-In only 1 game (Round 16: 7-2 or 6-3 vs. 7-2 or 6-3) can a team lose a starting place in the winner's bracket by losing to a team with a better record. Similarly, in only 1 game (2 6-3 or 5-4 teams playing, already mentioned above) can a team gain a starting place in the winner's bracket by defeating a team with a worse record.
-Thus, a maximum of 8 teams could possibly be affected, in terms of whether or not they make the playoffs and whether they start in the winner's or loser's bracket (10 teams in total are affected by these games, but 1 starts at 7-1 guaranteed winner's bracket and 1 starts at 3-5 guaranteed to miss playoffs), by having to play games involving teams with unequal records.

I'm not sure how many unequal matches there were in 2012 but I'm guessing that there were more than 20 and that more than 8 teams were in the "possibly affected" zone.

Essentially, the tradeoff is:
-1 additional packet
-No additional staffers (possibly a small number more staffers depending on how many teams send staffers and how many control rooms end up being needed)
-Potentially some amount of logistical hassle making sure bidding hotels have enough room for the extra teams

For 16 extra teams.

From a monetary standpoint, NAQT makes somewhere around $7500 more. From a participation standpoint, that's 16 more teams that get to play. If NAQT can find another 48 questions out there, expanding to 256 teams basically a win-win for everyone.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:14 pm

cvdwightw wrote:If NAQT can find another 48 questions out there, expanding to 256 teams basically a win-win for everyone.

The extra packet is no problem (notably: the 2011 HSNCT ran 16 rounds on Saturday). Whether the 2013 HSNCT has a 240-team or 256-team field will depend on the level of interest from teams.

Panayot Hitov · Post by **Panayot Hitov** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:44 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:We will post the survey results once they are compiled; and, yes, location change is on the table for the 2014 HSNCT.

Are they compiled yet?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:47 pm

Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:We will post the survey results once they are compiled; and, yes, location change is on the table for the 2014 HSNCT.
Are they compiled yet?

Not yet; we expect to have the final results within the next few weeks.

conquerer7 · Post by **conquerer7** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:42 pm

A question about qualification: if we want to send 3 teams, does that mean we need all three of them in the top 15% in one tournament? Can A/B qualify in one tournament, and A/C qualify in another? Do you track anything about a school besides the number of teams qualified?

There's a good chance we'll end up with A/B and A/C qualification, and having to choose only one of them to go would be awkward.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:50 pm

conquerer7 wrote:A question about qualification: if we want to send 3 teams, does that mean we need all three of them in the top 15% in one tournament?

Yes, all teams that qualify must do so at the same tournament. Additional teams are welcome (and encouraged) to apply for wildcard bids.

Post by **jonpin** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:15 pm

conquerer7 wrote:A question about qualification: if we want to send 3 teams, does that mean we need all three of them in the top 15% in one tournament? Can A/B qualify in one tournament, and A/C qualify in another? Do you track anything about a school besides the number of teams qualified?

There's a good chance we'll end up with A/B and A/C qualification, and having to choose only one of them to go would be awkward.

Keep in mind that schools qualify for HSNCT, not players. It isn't so much that the "A" and "C" teams qualified at X tournament, but that your school qualified two teams. Any students from any of your teams may go to HSNCT from that.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:30 pm

Registration is now open.

Sniper, No Sniping! · Post by **Sniper, No Sniping!** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:38 pm

bt_green_warbler wrote:
Willmune Sof Burrghtenstein wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:We will post the survey results once they are compiled; and, yes, location change is on the table for the 2014 HSNCT.
Are they compiled yet?
Not yet; we expect to have the final results within the next few weeks.

Where can we find this?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:41 pm

I don't think those have been posted; I just asked R. for a status update.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:08 pm

Wildcard applications for the 2013 HSNCT are now open. To apply, please send a summary of your team's accomplishments this year to hsnct [at] naqt.com.

If you would like to add a team to the standby list for the 2013 HSNCT, please contact us at hsnct [at] naqt.com.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:27 pm

naqt.com wrote:Counting berths reserved for state champions, there are only 12 remaining spots in the 2013 High School National Championship Tournament field for teams that qualified during the regular season. It is true that many reserved berths will go to teams that had already registered (and some teams may have to drop out), but teams interested in attending the tournament should be looking at registering sooner rather than later as the field is filling up fast.

Current field

Qualified teams should register here.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:03 pm

We passed 200 registered teams today. Qualified teams interested in attending should register here as soon as possible.

ScoBo · Post by **ScoBo** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:57 pm

Current field page wrote:219 teams have confirmed spots in this tournament.
The field is capped at 240 teams. 42 spots are being reserved for teams from specific qualifying events.

If 42 of the 240 spots are still reserved, wouldn't that mean at most 198 teams could have confirmed spots in the tournament at this point?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:29 pm

No; we build in a buffer because we expect many of those state championship bids will be claimed by teams already in the field.

That being said, we are very near to closing the field and starting a waitlist. Teams that wish to confirm a spot in the 2013 HSNCT should register here immediately.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:17 pm

I am pleased to report that the field for the 2013 HSNCT has been expanded to 256 teams.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:12 pm

NAQT has temporarily closed the field for its 2013 High School National Championship Tournament pending the results of state championships with reserved berths. Teams with reserved berths may still register, but those with "normal" invitations are being placed on a first-come, first-served waitlist.

Current waitlist

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:08 pm

The Hyatt Regency Atlanta is now sold out of double rooms for HSNCT weekend. We plan to announce a nearby overflow hotel in the near future.

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) · Post by **Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:15 pm

Is 256 the number, or is there discussion of further expansion?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:28 pm

The 2013 HSNCT will remain at 256 teams. (Further field expansion is not viable for current numbers of game rooms/staff/packets.)

Adventure Temple Trail · Post by **Adventure Temple Trail** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:35 am

Horned Screamer wrote:Is 256 the number, or is there discussion of further expansion?

Do people really want the HSNCT field to be infinitely expansive? I worry that if the HSNCT keeps expanding every year, it will eventually become completely unmanageable. Frankly, 256 is pretty gigantic and I don't think the HSNCT ever really needs to expand past that number.

vinteuil · Post by **vinteuil** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:51 am

RyuAqua wrote:256 is pretty gigantic and I don't think the HSNCT ever really needs to expand past that number.

Optimistically, could we not hope that every state would have at least 6 schools with at least one nationals-caliber team some time in the future?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:19 pm

RyuAqua wrote:
Horned Screamer wrote:Is 256 the number, or is there discussion of further expansion?
Do people really want the HSNCT field to be infinitely expansive? I worry that if the HSNCT keeps expanding every year, it will eventually become completely unmanageable. Frankly, 256 is pretty gigantic and I don't think the HSNCT ever really needs to expand past that number.

It's clear that there is demand for a national tournament larger than 256 teams. NAQT plans to have internal discussion this summer about how to manage potential future field expansion beyond 256 teams.

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:31 pm

The field for the 2013 NAQT HSNCT is now full. There are currently (as of April 30th) twelve teams on the waitlist.

itsthatoneguy · Post by **itsthatoneguy** » Thu May 02, 2013 2:13 pm

Slightly off topic, but I am planning on running a few times while in Atlanta. Nothing too crazy, maybe a few miles every day. If anyone is interested, feel free to PM me.

Kechara · Post by **Kechara** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:40 am

itsthatoneguy wrote:Slightly off topic, but I am planning on running a few times while in Atlanta. Nothing too crazy, maybe a few miles every day. If anyone is interested, feel free to PM me.

Outside the hotel? Your best bet is to stay on streets marked NE or NW.

itsthatoneguy · Post by **itsthatoneguy** » Fri May 10, 2013 11:44 am

Kechara wrote:
itsthatoneguy wrote:Slightly off topic, but I am planning on running a few times while in Atlanta. Nothing too crazy, maybe a few miles every day. If anyone is interested, feel free to PM me.
Outside the hotel? Your best bet is to stay on streets marked NE or NW.

Thanks. Last year we just went to that park with the large fountain in the middle, and that seemed fine.

Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant · Post by **Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant** » Fri May 10, 2013 12:30 pm

Centennial Olympic Park?

Kechara · Post by **Kechara** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:22 pm

Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant wrote:Centennial Olympic Park?

Yes, that would be Centennial Olympic Park

The Toad to Wigan Pier · Post by **The Toad to Wigan Pier** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:29 pm

If you want to run through a park, I would recommend going to Piedmont Park or the nearby Beltline Trail. There's also a running/bike trail that starts in the Centennial Park area and heads towards Stone Mountain that's fairly nice.

Citizen Snips · Post by **Citizen Snips** » Mon May 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Hello,
Mr. Hoppes:
I will be a first time participant at this year's HSNCT. I have one question. Will you post schedules and matchups for the preliminary rounds? If so, when will these the posted?
Thanks.

the return of AHAN · Post by **the return of AHAN** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:01 pm

intheshadowofgreatness wrote:Hello,
Mr. Hoppes:
I will be a first time participant at this year's HSNCT. I have one question. Will you post schedules and matchups for the preliminary rounds? If so, when will these the posted?
Thanks.

I'm notably not Mr. Hoppes, but I know I've never known NAQT to reveal first round match-ups in advance of the start of the tournament. Moreover, no one knows who your subsequent matches are against since they use a card system where your next match pairs you with someone with a similar or equal record, as explained upthread. Have fun!

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 pm

intheshadowofgreatness wrote:Hello,
Mr. Hoppes:
I will be a first time participant at this year's HSNCT. I have one question. Will you post schedules and matchups for the preliminary rounds? If so, when will these the posted?
Thanks.

The schedule is here. As Coach Price mentioned, HSNCT uses a card system that matches teams based on their results within the tournament on Saturday, so it is not possible to post matchups in advance of the tournament.

Citizen Snips · Post by **Citizen Snips** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:08 pm

Thanks for explaining.
Also, I just realized that I sounded like a third grader in that post.

Citizen Snips · Post by **Citizen Snips** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:15 pm

Out of curiosity, what determines a team's first opponent? (I apologize if I am asking too many questions about the secret inner workings of NAQT.)

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:33 pm

The field is seeded 1 to 256 and then divided into groups of 16 teams. Each 16-team group plays its first four rounds within the group (after every team has completed four rounds of play, the group will contain one 4-0 team, four 3-1 teams, six 2-2 teams, four 1-3 teams, and one 0-4 team). Then those records are used to pair up the teams across groups for the fifth round of play, etc.

This thread from the 2011 HSNCT may be of interest. (The system is still the same, although the precise numbers of teams have now changed.)

Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite · Post by **Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite** » Fri May 17, 2013 9:09 am

Ryan Liu and I will be running the blog/liveblog this year. Let us know if you have any suggestions for this iteration of the liveblog.

Adventure Temple Trail · Post by **Adventure Temple Trail** » Fri May 17, 2013 10:36 am

I'm not familiar with Ryan Liu; Ryan, if you're reading this, would you mind introducing yourself?

quizbowllee · Post by **quizbowllee** » Fri May 17, 2013 7:37 pm

Can anyone give me statistics on how many stand-by teams generally end up playing? We've got our "B" team at #1 on standby. I've told them that I'm about 99% sure they'll get to play. Has there ever been a year in which no standby teams were used?

Post by **Important Bird Area** » Fri May 17, 2013 9:14 pm

Last year 11 teams that were on the standby list on May 20th played HSNCT.

This year we expect to need fewer standby teams; note that there is still an eight-team waitlist to enter the field.

jagluski · Post by **jagluski** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:09 pm

huff paste wrote:Ryan Liu and I will be running the blog/liveblog this year. Let us know if you have any suggestions for this iteration of the liveblog.

Harry, I also have CoverItLive set up for the event itself. Email me if you'd like the information ahead of time or I can just get it to you Friday in Atlanta.