NJ/NY 2013-2014

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by samus149 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:23 pm

At last week's practice, Rohan got angry with me for not knowing the national epic of Portugal. He's an odd person.

As for the tryouts, last year went a little badly in that the two people voted onto the team (I think Jack and Esther) also competed in the individual tryouts, which led to one of them winning the lit tryout and Jack shadowing Pat in the history tryout, though it probably didn't help that we used normal difficulty questions. I don't know how to fix this besides not allowing people who are voted in to compete, but that has a lot of inherent problems in and of itself.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:11 pm

samus149 wrote:At last week's practice, Rohan got angry with me for not knowing the national epic of Portugal. He's an odd person.

As for the tryouts, last year went a little badly in that the two people voted onto the team (I think Jack and Esther) also competed in the individual tryouts, which led to one of them winning the lit tryout and Jack shadowing Pat in the history tryout, though it probably didn't help that we used normal difficulty questions. I don't know how to fix this besides not allowing people who are voted in to compete, but that has a lot of inherent problems in and of itself.
Considering my relative isolation from the circuit last year and the fact I didn't go to states, would anyone mind clarifying how exactly "voting" went last year? I was able to figure out the tryout process worked thanks to the threads in the archives, though.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by samus149 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:19 pm

Basically all of the coaches that attended states (maybe 10 or 12) were given a packet containing stats from previous tournaments. They then voted for the top players in the state.

At the end of it all, Mr. Powers announced the top 12 people, grouped into the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st team. The top 2 people were automatically on the NASAT team. Last year, the winners were Jack and Roey from Ranney. Roey had graduation NASAT weekend, and the third pick, J.P. from Seton Hall, didn't go, so the 4th pick, Rohan, got to go. The other 4 were chosen from the tryouts, though Ben and Kara dropped out, leaving Pat to fill Ben's shoes and New Jersey with 5 people.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by mushroom » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:19 pm

The Lusiads are kinda important...

Jokes aside, I agree that Sean's analysis is good. I think High Tech A and St. Joe's are ranked a few spots higher than they should be unless they can do a really good job covering their weaknesses in the next few months. As mentioned above, our A Team is vulnerable to getting beaten to questions on arts and lit and Jack on science, but it's not impossible to score in other categories such as SS on High Tech A or lit on St. Joe's.

Charter B is probably under-ranked a few spots assuming they're playing with Mohan. As mentioned above, due to HT B's science and history holes we should probably be placed a bit lower unless we have Adithya, in which case the ranking is appropriate. (Note: it was against us that Charter A got 15 powers.)

I've had tricky games against both BCC and North Babylon. It looked like Bergen would benefit from more history and less aggressiveness/negs. North Babylon had the opposite problem and seemed a bit deflated - with more aggression and lit they could definitely break the top 150.

I don't know enough about individual specialties to make a call on potential NASAT players, but I assume looking at people that are scoring well individually (Jack, Esther, Rohan, Adithya hypothetically, Shravan, Pat, maybe Michael from ML) would be a good place to start. I believe the voting was some combination of coaches being given individual stat lists of the top few players from the season and being told to rank them, but I don't know how many people were considered, how many coaches voted, etc.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:55 pm

mushroom wrote: Charter B is probably under-ranked a few spots assuming they're playing with Mohan.
Thank you, you flatter me...but I think the real emerging star of our team is Jared Saquing. Our nationals finish will be based on if he can maintain his rate of improvement (3 powers in 10 rounds at Princeton to around 28 powers I think at QuAC). His rise has also signaled the rise of our PPB filling a big science hole we used to have. Just had to put it out there that he is the real game-changer for our team.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:56 am

Hey, where's Ithaca in these rankings?

No one really knows anything about us, so I'll fill everyone in who's interested. We're going to be attending Prison Bowl down at Hunter and the GSAC at St. Joe's, so we'll definitely be seeing some people from this area who we haven't had the chance to play because we're so far.

There aren't many (any?) competitive teams in our region, which has been a bit of struggle, and we're trying to get downstate more but that definitely costs money. We've played two tournaments this year; one in Buffalo, and one that we've hosted. We've been consistently moved down in the rankings as more and more teams play tournaments and improve, and while we're also improving on our own, it appears as if we're at a standstill which time can only tell.

Our strongest player, Andrew Robertson, is ridiculous at history and geography, and he also knows a lot of religion and obscure trash. Jensen Lo is an extreme science and math specialist who can consistently power science questions (seeing that that's been a problem with other people on here, I don't know... We haven't been able to play any good teams this year, so we aren't sure of anything). Tracy Lai and I both cover fine arts and literature, and the latter may be one of our weaknesses. We are horrible at trash and mythology, which might be a problem at Prison Bowl, and I also cover philosophy and social science. At our first tournament, we were missing Tracy, which led to a somewhat-mediocre ppb of 20.68. We went all out at the tournament that we hosted and got a ppb of 22.18. We haven't played since December, but we're hoping to put up numbers more like that in the tournaments that we're attending in March; we're holding HSAPQ regionals and state finals on March 1st and 29th, respectively.

Another problem with us is that all of the aforementioned player (besides myself) are seniors. Next year, I'm starting from scratch. I have some decent freshmen that will be coming in, but together, we aren't really a force to be reckoned with. Not yet, anyway.

I'm not surprised that anyone forgot about us; we are going to try to be more involved in the circuit and I hope to see a lot of you at Prison Bowl and the GSAC mirror at St. Joe's.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:13 pm

Chunky Sean wrote:
mushroom wrote: Charter B is probably under-ranked a few spots assuming they're playing with Mohan.
Thank you, you flatter me...but I think the real emerging star of our team is Jared Saquing. Our nationals finish will be based on if he can maintain his rate of improvement (3 powers in 10 rounds at Princeton to around 28 powers I think at QuAC). His rise has also signaled the rise of our PPB filling a big science hole we used to have. Just had to put it out there that he is the real game-changer for our team.
Charter B is probably at its best on non-NAQT where they can take full advantage of Mohan's ridiculous fine arts knowledge. Against very good teams on NAQT, they might have a few issues on history/geography/CE, but Mohan still is a history bowl champ and Shrayus/Rohan N. I believe are also decent at history. Jared is a great addition to their team and he really knows his stuff, at QuAC he powered 6 questions against us.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:21 pm

Concerning NASAT: I have been in touch with several potential question providers and you can be certain that this year's try-out questions will be of greater difficulty than last year's. Further, the ideal would be to wait until States to hold NASAT competitions, but since they are in mid-May this year, that would be too late to make all the arrangements necessary for transportation and hotels and actually knowing who is ultimately willing to go to Columbus in June. Last year several people who won seats in competition actually dropped out at the last second; fortunately we had gifted players willing to take their place. But getting back to this year: Once I have locked in a definite question set, which should be soon, I will announce that try-outs will be held after the GSAC Tournament at St. Joe's on April 12th. And last year we allowed students to try-out for any 2 of the 4 disciplines---Lit, History, Science and the Humanities (the latter defined as RMP + the Fine & Performing Arts). Since students signed up before we selected our All State teams, we allowed the top 2 vote getters in the state, Jack and Roey to compete in the 4 categories as well since they did not know until that day that they had been selected 1-2 in the state. Roey declined because he could not go, while Jack won both the Lit and History competitions. We will NOT allow that this year. The top 2 vote-getters will automatically be on the team if they wish, and the remaining 4 seats will be filled competitively on more difficult questions, while the Top 2 vote-getters sit out these competitions. And, of course, if any winners ultimately choose not to go, then the runners-up in each discipline will be next to be invited, as occurred last year. This at least is the current plan, which I have discussed in broad brushstrokes with my colleague in these matters from the last several years, Mr. Ibendahl from Mountain Lakes. And of course I invite any other Coach from NJ to work with me and Andrew to help make the NJ NASAT Team the best it can be, including making suggestions on how to improve the selection process outlined here. I have taken the initiative on this because I have coached the NJ team at NASAT for the last three years. If someone would like to help chaperone with me, or even assume my responsibilities overall, just let me know. One last thing: All students interested in earning a NJ NASAT seat should know that there are financial costs involved, probably in the $350.00/person range---more or less. Most schools have defrayed these expenses for their students over the past 3 years, but some have not, so all should be aware of this potential cost when competing for a seat. So, in summation, we will try to hold these competitions on April 12th at SJHS, assuming we can get quality questions, and we will also try to elect our All State Teams as well at that time or perhaps earlier, maybe at Livingston if Coach Rabner does not mind, since Livingston might actually have more NJ Coaches in attendance than our GSAC will. More on this after I talk to Coach Rabner. And, of course, I welcome any comments from our NJ audience here at the hsquizbowl site.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Guybo » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:21 pm

Ed - You're more than welcome to do elections for the All-State teams at our tournament. Thanks so much, as always, for getting it all together and making this and NASAT happen for NJ schools. You do NJ Quiz Bowl proud!

Also, since I've mentioned it, a reminder that Livingston's March Madness is 4 weeks from today and there are only 7 open spots left. Check the tournament page - http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =1&t=15369 - for updates.

What are the odds that all of this snow will be melted by then? :lol:
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Edward Powers » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:27 am

Guy,

Thanks for your generosity and your kind words. I will start working on the All State stats and ballots ASAP while ordering trophies and medallions as well so they will be ready by March 15th.

As for giving odds on whether or not there will still be snow on the ground in mid-March, you are asking the wrong person---I am no mathematician. But I'll give it a shot---given the ferocity of 'Old Man Winter' this year, my guess is that the odds might slightly favor snow remaining in your parking lot when we arrive for March Madness. Naturally, I hope I am wrong, but I would not bet on it.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:04 pm

Hi,

I am brand new on the board - I came looking to see if Hunter College HS had ever posted the final stats for Prison Bowl.
I'm looking because this was the first actual Quiz Bowl Tournament the Bethlehem entered. I was sorry to see that there is a NYS championship in Ithaca coming up, for which we were not even aware of the qualifying tournaments. You might be asking "well Why the *&@@ were you not aware."

So, here is the deal. The HS is only interested in Masterminds. The kids are good at it. If you take a look at their stats, you'd have to think they will do well again this year.

In order to do Quiz Bowl, or NHBB through the HS, they would need a lot more money & support than they have. Travel ,through their bureaucracy, would be a night mare. So two years ago Dave Madden came to town at RPI with the NHBB. The kids went independently of the HS & we qualified a Varsity & JV team. As a result, we formed a separate private club for Bethlehem HS students the do NHBB. We raise $, and travel to tournaments outside of the control & over-site of the HS. They went down to DC & did OK. Last year even better, particularly with JV team coming in 3rd. This year we added the Prison Bowl because one of the dads had gone to HS there. As you, In Ithaca know, they did OK coming in 11th. It does not look like you do Masterminds, So, We'll see you at NHBB.

Interestingly Bethlehem MS is giving some support to the MS team and they will also be going to the HS NHBB, Atlanta for MS was too far to go. They will be traveling with an adviser, who I think is doing it for no pay.

The Key, If you do want to get a rivalry going is to contact the club first , and the School also( If you want to) to let us know when & where we should be signing up. The two Key parents are myself ( Make Wolfsberg ) and Ilyse Weinstein
Standard-winged Nightjar wrote:
Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote: Not to mention the fact that IHS returns Andrew Robertson, a rising senior (and Ithaca's top scorer at HSNCT this year) who could probably beat any upstate New York team of four in History Bowl playing solo, as well as having Casey transfer in. In fact, it would be positively criminal if an Ithaca team containing Andrew, Casey, Ari and Tracy didn't go to, and do very well at, History Bowl nationals in 2014.
This is interesting to hear; we'll certainly try and get our tournament off the ground at Ithaca this year. On the other hand, Bethlehem is very committed, looking to play more, and as a team of 2, made the JV national semifinals at NHBB Nationals this year. Ithaca / Bethlehem could turn into a great upstate NY rivalry. We just need to make sure that we don't have too many tournaments and not enough teams to play them in upstate NY. Aside from MasterMinds, I'm not sure what if anything Bethlehem has done with standard quizbowl - the tournament Scott refers to below was our Westchester regional last year where their JV team won the title, and their Varsity did pretty well. Bethlehem's biggest challenge this year will be finding sufficient tournaments to go to. They should definitely go to PHAT if they can make it up to Burlington, and otherwise, come down to the larger NYC tournaments (same with Ithaca, if they can make it, though they're more like a 3.5 hour as opposed to a 2 hour drive).
Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote:Bethlehem (from the Albany area) just won their second MasterMinds championship in three years this June, but they rarely play anything except that (MasterMinds is run on NAQT A-sets, so they're not playing Chipbowl or anything like that), although Dave Madden told me this year at Scarsdale that they have played in metro-NYC novice tournaments once or twice in the past and didn't embarrass themselves.
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Last edited by Mark Wolfsberg on Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:22 am

We likely won't be going to DC - funding is an issue and we'll probably only be going to HSNCT. I was the only one who actually did NHBB this year from Ithaca, and I did so independently of the school.

I'm not all that interested in getting a rivalry going, in all honesty. You did a good job at Prison Bowl, but the only rivalry we'd be interested in having is one with pyramidal quiz bowl (i.e., an NAQT or HSAPQ tournament). We held the regional qualifier for states at Ithaca High School on March 1. I'm not sure why your team wasn't contacted for this.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:51 pm

Casee,

I'm sorry to here you won't be at NHBB. I really love the Format and Dave Madden is a guy who is really shaking things up. If you personally want a ride down to be a one person team or do the Bowl, we can take you from Albany, or any point sout you want to meet us at. It's possible we can get you a spot in a hotel room as well.

Having said that. Obviously we are not qualified for any National Quiz Bowl Tourneys this year. I feel fairly good about the HS's chances of winning the NYS Masterminds tournament. I am not sure if that qualifies them for anything else....

So, I would like to keep in touch with you for next year. We definitely want to know when you are hosting quiz Bowl Tournaments. And also which ones you'll be going to. I can't promise to be a regular on this board, so E-mail me at mwolfsb@gmail.com and also Eric EB.wolf@verizon.net. Eric is a Sophomore now, so he'll be leading the team for the next two years. Ben will be back next year as a SR. Jonah, Tom & Max our other History Bowl Varsity guys are also seniors now.....
But there is a group of untested but smart sophomores coming up.

After Prison Bowl, I am hoping there will be interest in doing more Quiz Bowls.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Important Bird Area » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:18 pm

Mark Wolfsberg wrote:I feel fairly good about the HS's chances of winning the NYS Masterminds tournament. I am not sure if that qualifies them for anything else....
Masterminds is a qualifier for NAQT HSNCT (and I suspect that Bethlehem's Prison Bowl performance would have a good case for a wildcard).
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:31 pm

I'm probably just not going to attend at all. Thank you very much for the offer, though.

Alright! You may not be in contact with Scott Blish, but he runs most of the pyramidal tournaments in our area. There is a solo tournament being held at Victor High School (Rochester area) with some fairly high-caliber competition. As for regular pyramidal team quiz bowl, there are always a decent amount of tournaments held in the tri-state area, and an unfortunately low amount of tournaments held in upstate NY.
Info here: http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... 8&p=275737

I'm not a very trustworthy representative of our quiz bowl team, and contacting Scott would probably be a good idea if you're interested in attending any tournaments around the area. We host a quiz bowl tournament every fall (BrainBusters Fall), and the solo tournament is probably going to be held next year and in the years to come as well. Becoming good at overall quiz bowl (IS-sets and that difficulty range) will definitely make your team better at the IS-A sets that they play in MasterMinds. I definitely encourage you to try attending at least one or two tournaments outside of MasterMinds. It's definitely worth it.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:45 pm

This sounds very cool ! I've sent out a note to all the Bethlehem folks to see what level of interest we have. I hope I can bring a van load of players.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:53 pm

Crazyflight wrote: there are always a decent amount of tournaments held in the tri-state area, and an unfortunately low amount of tournaments held in upstate NY.
.
I feel like we should host a tournament. I could probably do a decent job of marketing it in the Capital District and surrounding areas, but I have only ever been to Prison Bowl ( aside from the NHBB qualifiers) , So I feel a little intimidated about trying to run a tournament. Our first obstacle would be making sure the HS or MS would let us host it at their facility... Is there anyone who would be able to help with all the other tournament logistics ?
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:36 am

bt_green_warbler wrote:
Mark Wolfsberg wrote:I feel fairly good about the HS's chances of winning the NYS Masterminds tournament. I am not sure if that qualifies them for anything else....
Masterminds is a qualifier for NAQT HSNCT (and I suspect that Bethlehem's Prison Bowl performance would have a good case for a wildcard).
Interestingly, it looks like the NYS 2014 Masterminds tournament is in June, After NAQT nationals. Do you think this means we are qualified for nationals based on last years ( 2013) MM win ? Realize, that the HS advisor does not share a whole lot with the parents of the players. I will probably need to ask him what he knows.... In any event, I may have an uphill battle trying to convince the parents of at least 4 players to send their kids to Chicago for a tournament in addition to NHBB
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by High Dependency Unit » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:17 pm

It might be worth mentioning that the field for HSNCT is "full" when you count reservations for state championship qualifiers, and the waitlist already has 26 teams.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Mark Wolfsberg » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:12 pm

geolawyerman wrote:It might be worth mentioning that the field for HSNCT is "full" when you count reservations for state championship qualifiers, and the waitlist already has 26 teams.
Well that sort of fixes my problem. Eric told me he did not want to go to it anyway, and I doubt the others would want to go if he did not go... but he is excited about Brain Busters.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Ithaca Cricket Ump » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:14 am

Mark Wolfsberg wrote:
bt_green_warbler wrote:
Mark Wolfsberg wrote:I feel fairly good about the HS's chances of winning the NYS Masterminds tournament. I am not sure if that qualifies them for anything else....
Masterminds is a qualifier for NAQT HSNCT (and I suspect that Bethlehem's Prison Bowl performance would have a good case for a wildcard).
Interestingly, it looks like the NYS 2014 Masterminds tournament is in June, After NAQT nationals. Do you think this means we are qualified for nationals based on last years ( 2013) MM win ? Realize, that the HS advisor does not share a whole lot with the parents of the players. I will probably need to ask him what he knows.... In any event, I may have an uphill battle trying to convince the parents of at least 4 players to send their kids to Chicago for a tournament in addition to NHBB
I have been told by the guy who runs MasterMinds in the past (although it doesn't seem to have been communicated, incredibly, to the interested teams), as well as some very high-placed people at NAQT itself, that winning your MasterMinds LEAGUE, never mind a state title like Bethlehem has done 2 of the last 3 years, is sufficient to qualify a team for HSNCT under the current standards. This is really a shame, because from their Prison Bowl performance, Bethlehem would not only -qualify- for HSNCT, but would have been very competitive at the tournament itself. Unfortunately, with the unprecedented demand for HSNCT spots this year (the tournament was recently expanded to 272 teams, with Small School Nationals drawing even more teams away that would've competed at HSNCT in the past, and they STILL have a huge waitlist), not knowing about this qualification method early pretty much torpedoed any chances of Bethlehem competing there this time around.

I suppose PACE NSC, the other recognized major national championship tournament, would be a possibility, but you would most likely have to request a wild-card berth, and I don't know how that works for that particular tournament, or if they have a wild-card procedure at all. PACE NSC is considered just as prestigious a tournament as HSNCT, and, speaking as someone who moderates at both tournaments every spring, if you can only go to one, you could pull either one of them out of a bag and not go wrong either way (not to say that there aren't important differences in the -style- of the tournaments: PACE is untimed 20/20 format, powers are worth 20 pts and there are no negs, missed bonus parts bounce back to the opposing team in PACE, PACE is 100% academic in content - no pop culture or trash, and while PACE is a smaller tournament at about 100 teams as opposed to HSNCT's 272, the average quality of the teams is much higher at PACE). Prison Bowl was a Platinum PACE tournament, and with 36 competing teams, they would automatically qualify the top 25% of finishers, meaning that your 11th-place finish was just short of the qualification standard (up through 9th place). Check out their website at http://www.pace-nsc.org/ for more info.

Re: the HSAPQ state championship - the recruitment for that was done basically by HSAPQ themselves, by snail mail to the actual schools. If the Bethlehem MM coach, who has completely ignored every message and tournament announcement that I have sent to him so far, was the recipient of it, I would guess that that's why you didn't hear of it. Next year, I will have the time to be much more personally involved in the recruitment of the teams for states, and at least in the case of Bethlehem, we now know who to be in touch with. :)

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Important Bird Area » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:44 am

Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote: I have been told by the guy who runs MasterMinds in the past (although it doesn't seem to have been communicated, incredibly, to the interested teams), as well as some very high-placed people at NAQT itself, that winning your MasterMinds LEAGUE, never mind a state title like Bethlehem has done 2 of the last 3 years, is sufficient to qualify a team for HSNCT under the current standards.
This is correct: the top 15% of each MasterMinds league qualifies for HSNCT. (We do send invitations to the teams; relatively few of them have attended HSNCT because there is limited time to make travel plans between the April league results and HSNCT itself.)
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Ithaca Cricket Ump » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:52 am

Mark:

I stupidly didn't mention this earlier, but geolawyerman's post reminded me that there one way remaining that Bethlehem can qualify for a spot at HSNCT, without having to worry about the waiting list: attend and win the Saturday, April 19, NAQT Upstate New York Championship tournament to be held at SUNY-Buffalo - the winner of that tournament has a reserved spot in the HSNCT field, and since I don't think that Ithaca is planning to attend that tournament since they're playing the St. Joe's tournament the pervious weekend (Casey or Ben, correct me if that impression is incorrect), Bethlehem would most likely be the strong favorites to win that tournament if they were to attend, and most likely co-favorites even if Ithaca did send their A team. It's something to consider, anyway.

The tournament announcement is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15346

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:39 am

Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote:Mark:

I stupidly didn't mention this earlier, but geolawyerman's post reminded me that there one way remaining that Bethlehem can qualify for a spot at HSNCT, without having to worry about the waiting list: attend and win the Saturday, April 19, NAQT Upstate New York Championship tournament to be held at SUNY-Buffalo - the winner of that tournament has a reserved spot in the HSNCT field, and since I don't think that Ithaca is planning to attend that tournament since they're playing the St. Joe's tournament the pervious weekend (Casey or Ben, correct me if that impression is incorrect), Bethlehem would most likely be the strong favorites to win that tournament if they were to attend, and most likely co-favorites even if Ithaca did send their A team. It's something to consider, anyway.

The tournament announcement is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15346

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We weren't planning on attending this tournament, no.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Galstaff, Sorceror of Light » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:45 am

Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote:
I suppose PACE NSC, the other recognized major national championship tournament, would be a possibility, but you would most likely have to request a wild-card berth, and I don't know how that works for that particular tournament, or if they have a wild-card procedure at all. PACE NSC is considered just as prestigious a tournament as HSNCT, and, speaking as someone who moderates at both tournaments every spring, if you can only go to one, you could pull either one of them out of a bag and not go wrong either way (not to say that there aren't important differences in the -style- of the tournaments: PACE is untimed 20/20 format, powers are worth 20 pts and there are no negs, missed bonus parts bounce back to the opposing team in PACE, PACE is 100% academic in content - no pop culture or trash, and while PACE is a smaller tournament at about 100 teams as opposed to HSNCT's 272, the average quality of the teams is much higher at PACE). Prison Bowl was a Platinum PACE tournament, and with 36 competing teams, they would automatically qualify the top 25% of finishers, meaning that your 11th-place finish was just short of the qualification standard (up through 9th place). Check out their website at http://www.pace-nsc.org/ for more info.
Teams interested in a wildcard bid for the NSC should email George Berry at georgeberry.vcu@gmail.com.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by jonpin » Tue May 13, 2014 7:57 am

Before we retire this thread and get to date claims for 2014-15, anyone have thoughts on the state championship this weekend or nationals the next two? How deep can High Tech go? Will St. Joseph or Ridgewood be able to pull an upset and win the state title? Any surprise teams that might go a few rounds on HSNCT Sunday, or make top tier at NSC?
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Tue May 13, 2014 8:17 am

If High Tech is at full strength I think an upset is highly unlikely especially given their dominating performance at St. Joseph's GSAC mirror. As far as nationals go, I would think that High Tech A, Charter A, and St. Joseph are all set for deep runs at both national tournaments. Coming just behind are Hunter and Ridgewood who have potential for deep runs.

As far as date claims go for next season, we will most likely hold our annual Charter School of Wilmington Invitational Fall Tournament (CSWIFT) on Saturday October 18th with a Varsity field on IS set, a JV field on A set, and an MS field on A set (if enough interest).
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Tue May 13, 2014 9:48 am

It's possible an upset could occur, Esther and Ridgewood managed to pull off the unlikely victory at Livingston even considering the fact she didn't have her full team with her. However, it's likely that High Tech A will face St. Joe's, Ridgewood, Livingston, or High Tech B (if at full strength) in the championship game. Livingston especially gets a nice NAQT bounce.

Afterwards, MAST, Mountain Lakes, EB, BCA and Millburn could affect results for states with an upset or two.

The individual players in the region have also done a tremendous job. The amount of strong generalists in the area has especially been remarkable. Jack, Esther, David/Chris from Livingston, Michael Wang from ML, and others have done a phenomenal job, while High Texh A itself has quite the shadow effect ( as seen every time the team is short handed).

EDIT: In regards to date claims, EB is looking to possibly host a tournament sometime in the fall but since it'll be our first time, we don't want to step on anyone's toes. If this can get through our administration, we'd look to take recommendations as to when such a tourney could be placed given the volatility of the schedule this year.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Tue May 13, 2014 10:17 am

Because I like to procrastinate on studying for APs, here are my nationals predictions:

High tech A :shock:
- 4th at HSNCT, 5th at NSC
Rohan/Pat's astounding knowledge in geo/ce will take them quite far at HSNCT. I don't see them being hurt too much by their lit/fa weakness at NSC due to their ability to get extremely crazy/legit powers in Hist/Sci. However, they will probably drop some games at NSC that they probably shouldn't, keeping them out of the top 3.

St Joe's :chip:
- 16th-ish at NSC
As an all-around solid team, I see them placing at the lower end of the top bracket, similarly to how High Tech A placed last year.

Hunter A :bees:
- t-33 at HSNCT, 27th-ish? at NSC
A good team, I think? they are significantly better on mACF than NAQT. They have some legit knowledge across the board, so they might pull some upsets.

High tech B :arminius:
- t-33rd HSNCT, 20th-ish at NSC
Another good team, Steve Badger has done work this year nearly on his own. The addition of Aditya for nationals(?) should only help, providing he keeps his negs down.

Ridgewood :capybara:
t-21 at HSNCT (Edit: nevermind, they are not going), 15th-ish at PACE NSC
I have absolutely no clue how this team will do, but I will edge on the optimistic side. Esther's extremely mercurial abilities can make this team outright elite when she is on her game. Her teammates know things in her weaker areas, so that appears to be promising. Esther handily defeated High Tech on IS set, when I would say she is better on mACF. However, this team has extremely underperformed at some mACF tournaments, showing wild discrepancies in their finishes/PPB/power rates/etc.

Livingston :aaa:
t-33 at HSNCT
A well rounded team, they have decent knowledge in most categories. However, they sometimes appear to have random holes in their knowledge, hurting themselves on some bonuses. Regardless, this is the team that relishes "those packets" that everyone else seems to complain about. David Song has knowledge in the potentially more esoteric areas of the NAQT distribution (Geo, CE, History, Mixed Academic), so this team will surely pull some upsets at HSNCT. Likewise, they have the potential to be upset by a lower ranked team.

Mountain Lakes :twisted:
t-50th
Don't know much about them, but they seem like a playoff team at the least.

Edit: Teams that I forgot.

Gotham
t-70th or whatever at HSNCT
Chris Hillenbrand has become more active throughout the season and has become a competent generalist, enough to lead his team to the playoffs. He has crazy science knowledge obviously and is decent in other areas.

Ithaca A
t-50th at HSNCT
Don't know much about them, they seem good enough to make playoffs as well.

Manheim A
t-70th at HSNCT

Phoenixville A
t-70th at HSNCT

State College A
t-50th at HSNCT

Other B teams: Could make playoffs, don't know much else about them.

Hopefully I didn't forget anyone.

For NJ States, I'll arbitrarily predict that Esther has another fantastic performance and defeats High Tech in the final :lol: .
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Important Bird Area » Tue May 13, 2014 1:07 pm

Schmidt Sting Pain Index wrote: Ridgewood :capybara:
t-21 at HSNCT, 15th-ish at PACE NSC
Ridgewood isn't currently registered for HSNCT (but there's still space to join the field!)
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Sat May 17, 2014 7:10 pm

So, are there any final comments that can be made with the conclusion of the regular season?
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by jonpin » Sun May 18, 2014 8:57 pm

High Tech is crazy good. They should make the final eight at NSC and have the chance to throw things off by upsetting one of the national championship contenders, but I don't think they'll be able to win the title themselves.
St. Joseph and Ridgewood are both contenders to make Tier I (top 24) at NSC; I think the former more likely than the latter. Ridgewood's somewhat mercurial, but 20-point powers and 0-point negs will reward Esther's aggression. High Tech B, Hunter A, and Kellenberg are second tier (25-48th) teams. Mountain Lakes and Bergen Academies have outside chances to make second tier, but it'll be difficult. Hard to know what to expect from Hunter B/C. Pingry's made the jump to a legit nationals and based on their performance at state (defeating both SJ and BCA), they could cause a bit of chaos; North Babylon will have a tough time of it.

If we learned anything from MSNCT, it's that predicting double-elimination brackets is folly. Both High Techs, Hunter A and Livingston A are locks to make Sunday. Liv B, Mountain Lakes, and MAST are probably good bets to join them if they're at full strength.

High Tech is an obvious favorite for 2014-15, what with their entire B team from states + Rohan returning. Most of the rest of the top tier suffers one huge loss: Jack, Esther, David, Marianna, Abhiram. Ridgewood may weather that loss the best, with Ben taking the reins. I feel like Bergen Academies* has great things to come but we might not peak until '15-'16.

*-Hopefully I can get Bergen Tech's team to continue existing, in which case my team should generally be called Bergen Academies or BCA to avoid confusion. BT was in good spirits on the bus ride home, and their student leaders will be returning next year, so here's hoping.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Sun May 18, 2014 9:05 pm

With some luck and enough studying from my teammates, as long as I cut down my negs (by like a lot), EB could be able to compete in the top tier next year with the likes of Ridgewood. If Rohan and Adithya play together and get help from other ayers like Andrew, Christiaan and Sharan, they should be on course for their fourth straight title and it's basically a race for second. One thing that is clear (or so it seems) is that there will be a lot more opportunities for teams to rise to the occasion and maybe even break the High Tech-St. Joes hegemony of the championship game.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index » Sun May 18, 2014 9:13 pm

Hunter returns some people who seem to be pretty involved, Jonathan, Douglas, Brent, Sarah, Albert, etc., so I think they will be fairly competitive. I also expect North Babylon to improve, as Emmanuel seems to want to improve. Otherwise I expect Rohan and Adithya to be the best team in NJ, but I don't find them a prohibitive favorite. Vasu from East Brunswick appears to be very motivated and could give Shravan the teammate he needs to take the next step. Ridgewood will need to find a 4th player to replace Esther, but Ben, Thomas H, and Thomas C project to be a promising team. Pingry has show the inclination to improve, so a leap from them would not be surprising.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Sun May 18, 2014 9:22 pm

High Tech will no doubt be a contender. Some teams that I think will rise up and challenge them are East Brunswick, Ridgewood, Hunter, North Babylon, and Great Neck South.

East Brunswick: With a Shravan leading the charge I think this team will improve a lot over summer. He could use the help of a second scorer taking some load (much like how Varun helped Jaimie this year).

Ridgewood: Ben Bechtold has shown his potential to become an extremely dominant player and given that he improves Ridgewood will continue to be in the conversation.

Hunter: See Varun's post

North Babylon: again see Varun's post (I'm too lazyyyyy)

GNS: Returning many of their best players, GNS will definitely make a jump into the upper level of top brackets next season. An all underclassmen team from GNS made it into the top bracket at the St. Joseph's tournament last month, and if their young talent can continue to improve they may become a scary force.

And given that our captain Rohan Narayan doesn't make the decision to play more DC tournaments next year, we may be back as well :grin: .
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by jonpin » Sun May 18, 2014 9:38 pm

Al Hirt wrote:With some luck and enough studying from my teammates, as long as I cut down my negs (by like a lot), EB could be able to compete in the top tier next year with the likes of Ridgewood. If Rohan and Adithya play together and get help from other ayers like Andrew, Christiaan and Sharan, they should be on course for their fourth straight title and it's basically a race for second. One thing that is clear (or so it seems) is that there will be a lot more opportunities for teams to rise to the occasion and maybe even break the High Tech-St. Joes hegemony of the championship game.
Yeah, that second game I read for you yesterday, I don't know whether it was frustration or desperation, but you definitely negged yourself right out of it. Also, it's worth noting, Mt. Lakes was state runner-up last year; St. Joseph finished behind High Techs A & B in their playoff group.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Sun May 18, 2014 9:48 pm

Hopefully Ithaca will be able to head down and compete in a couple of tournaments in NJ/NYC next year. We're taking hard hits with our other three A team players (excluding myself) graduating, and I don't know how much of contenders we will be. We bring up two other motivated freshmen, and we'll be around for a while. However, next year, I don't see us doing as well as we are this year. Only time will tell, I guess.

Next year, this circuit is definitely taking a lot of big hits, like Varun said. With that, I do think that the amount of studying that people are going to put in over the summer is going to have a big effect in seeing how teams will do. Some people may put in more effort than others. Although I see High Tech being the top team in the NY/NJ area by next year, what with Sean, Srishti, Pat, and Stephen leaving, upsets will be all the more possible. Hunter will probably be very good as well, although Marianna is leaving. Ridgewood and East Brunswick can also be strong contenders for the reasons stated above. Mountain Lakes and MAST could be good, although they seem to have some stepping up to do from what I've seen of them.

It's hard to tell how next year will end up.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Sun May 18, 2014 10:45 pm

Yeah, mental kick to myself made on that regard. Usually I end up begging lit, art and science (and not really stuff I have real knowledge in), but yesterday it was just bad overall. The set was probably NAQT's best of the year, so it was unfortunate I couldn't take of that.

For some reason, EB manages to play some game with Mountain Lakes at every tournament we've attended that they've attended. With the exception of Livingston and NJ State History Bowl, we've played Mountain Lakes A five times on five different sets. Michael Wang is a pretty dominating player who will be missed, though I think Mark (who I saw for the first time at states) is solid as well. ML has a deep pool of kids to draw from, as does Bergen whose B team gave us a bit of trouble way back at Princeton.

One thing that will certainly be cool is to see how Greg can do without Jack's formidable shadow. He's may be able to shore up on some of the NAQT aspects Jack despises. What High Tech chooses to so with its team breakdowns is also going to be relevant: do they revert to the 2012-2013 method of creating multiple balanced, extremely skilled teams, or will it consolidate its players like it did this year to essentially form a superteam?
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by samus149 » Mon May 19, 2014 12:48 am

Al Hirt wrote:What High Tech chooses to so with its team breakdowns is also going to be relevant: do they revert to the 2012-2013 method of creating multiple balanced, extremely skilled teams, or will it consolidate its players like it did this year to essentially form a superteam?
Just to be clear, cause I think this has come up before: we didn't try to create multiple superteams in 2012-2013 (nor were they superteams; we lost a fair amount of tournaments that season). There was an A team of Kevin, David, Justin, Lukas, and Pat to start off the year, and Pat successfully convinced me, Srishti, and Badger to come to tournaments. Rohan and Adithya were stubborn enough to break away and make their own all-sophomore team at most tournaments, and this is how we got High Techs A, B, and C for most of the year. If we had moved any of those people around to make new teams, it wouldn't have mattered, because those teams were the best possible teams we could have made.

This year, the A team was again conveniently 4 people from the 3 teams who complemented each other the best, and just happened to produce a team where people's specialties didn't cancel each other out. In general, you're not gonna see anyone from High Tech studying a specific thing, we just learn stuff on our own and hope the teams work out in the end, like how Srishti and I conveniently have different tastes in literature and Rohan and Pat conveniently specialize in different areas of history. Last year, it worked out pretty well. This year, it worked out better. Next year, I think Rohan, Adithya, and the undisclosed 3rd and 4th will also complement each other to make an effective team.

In this vein, we're not gonna try to make balanced teams next year. Our ultimate goal is to make the best A team we can, which doesn't always mean putting the top 4 scorers on the A team, so the B team may also be competent, and seeing as how we have several candidates for the remaining spot(s) on the A team, they should be. We're still trying to iron out the details, but I think High Tech A next year is going to be at least at the level of our A team 2012-2013, and likely higher.

That being said, I would not be surprised if these teams got good enough over the summer to win tournaments next year (forgive me if some graduation data is off, and this is by no means a complete list):

East Brunswick: Shravan negs a lot, but he also got 38 powers in 10 rounds. If he studies like he says he's gonna study, and other people contribute, I wouldn't be surprised if they won some tournaments. They could be the new St. Joe's.

Ridgewood: With Esther gone, the rest of her team's gotta step up, which they certainly can...if they come to tournaments. Ridgewood's attendance is nothing short of sporadic save Esther, and without her motivation they might not come to as many tournaments. Having said that, Ben got 19 powers and a lot of tossups with one bloody neg, and with the Thomae supporting, I can see them being great.

Hunter: They return everybody but Marianna (I think), and Hunter is famous for building up strong teams, so a team of any of their current juniors and sophomores will put a dent in any bracket. Plus, if they bring back Prison Bowl for another year, their entire team will have 2 years of writing experience under their belts.

Nationals Predictions: I don't like predicting nationals, too much confusion. However, as for us, fair warning, Rohan isn't coming to HSNCT, so Adithya is gonna be switching over from the B team, which means A loses a lot of geo/CE/history knowledge and B team loses a lot of everything. Expect worse performances from both teams at Chicago.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Al Hirt » Mon May 19, 2014 4:46 pm

I should point out that I'm absolutely terrible at converting bonuses. I'll screw up easy stuff and get talked out of stuff I know. However, I should point out that my teammates do get bonuses, especially science ones, and that's part of the reason we win close games. Not that we couldn't get better (we certainly could), but that's just something to keep in mind. However, I fully expect them to study and then some, and hopefully we can have a B team which was around where Livingston B was this year.

Since I won't be going to either national, good luck to all teams involved. The fact that these teams have been up against such terrific competition all year long should translate into good results at nats.
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Ithaca Cricket Ump » Thu May 22, 2014 9:14 am

Crazyflight wrote:Hopefully Ithaca will be able to head down and compete in a couple of tournaments in NJ/NYC next year. We're taking hard hits with our other three A team players (excluding myself) graduating, and I don't know how much of contenders we will be. We bring up two other motivated freshmen, and we'll be around for a while. However, next year, I don't see us doing as well as we are this year. Only time will tell, I guess.
The major problem I see with Ithaca next year is that their outstanding strength this year (science and math) is going to become their biggest weakness. They're going to have to fraud the science next year. Since the A team is most likely going to be four sophomores who haven't taken AP-level science YET, they're going to have to depend a lot on mining stock clues on bio, chem and physics. The fact that Casey, Daniel and Andrey (to the best of my current knowledge) are all planning to attend ACE this summer and take one science course each shows that they know this is going to be a weakness, and are working to combat it (hint: reading an AP-level science textbook over the summer is a good way to get real knowledge quickly ;) ), so by the time things get going next year, maybe it won't be. Jensen and Ari are going to be tough to replace, though. They're still going to have the other categories locked down enough that, with the frauded and stocked science knowledge, only Bethlehem is going to be able to stay in a game with them among upstate teams. The places where the difference could be seen are in the metro-NYC tournaments they attend, and at the nationals level. I stand by my earlier statements, though, that this team is going to be positively frightening once they get to be juniors and seniors, as long as they continue to show the work ethic they've shown as freshmen.

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by The Polebarn Hotel » Thu May 22, 2014 7:11 pm

Ithaca Cricket Ump wrote:
Crazyflight wrote:Hopefully Ithaca will be able to head down and compete in a couple of tournaments in NJ/NYC next year. We're taking hard hits with our other three A team players (excluding myself) graduating, and I don't know how much of contenders we will be. We bring up two other motivated freshmen, and we'll be around for a while. However, next year, I don't see us doing as well as we are this year. Only time will tell, I guess.
The major problem I see with Ithaca next year is that their outstanding strength this year (science and math) is going to become their biggest weakness. They're going to have to fraud the science next year. Since the A team is most likely going to be four sophomores who haven't taken AP-level science YET, they're going to have to depend a lot on mining stock clues on bio, chem and physics. The fact that Casey, Daniel and Andrey (to the best of my current knowledge) are all planning to attend ACE this summer and take one science course each shows that they know this is going to be a weakness, and are working to combat it (hint: reading an AP-level science textbook over the summer is a good way to get real knowledge quickly ;) ), so by the time things get going next year, maybe it won't be. Jensen and Ari are going to be tough to replace, though. They're still going to have the other categories locked down enough that, with the frauded and stocked science knowledge, only Bethlehem is going to be able to stay in a game with them among upstate teams. The places where the difference could be seen are in the metro-NYC tournaments they attend, and at the nationals level. I stand by my earlier statements, though, that this team is going to be positively frightening once they get to be juniors and seniors, as long as they continue to show the work ethic they've shown as freshmen.

--Scott
Absolutely. That's definitely what we'll be trying to focus on and tackle as a team, but there's only so much we can learn without having that background, so that will be our main area of weakness. To compensate for that, we're definitely going to amp everything else up. Hopefully it will be enough for us to be a competitive team next year. ACE will help.
Casey Wetherbee
Ithaca '17
Georgetown '21
NAQT Writer

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jonpin
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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by jonpin » Sun May 25, 2014 12:42 am

jonpin wrote:High Tech is crazy good. They should make the final eight at NSC
Check.
and have the chance to throw things off by upsetting one of the national championship contenders,
Minor check.
but I don't think they'll be able to win the title themselves.
Pending.
St. Joseph and Ridgewood are both contenders to make Tier I (top 24) at NSC; I think the former more likely than the latter.
Check check.
Ridgewood's somewhat mercurial, but 20-point powers and 0-point negs will reward Esther's aggression.
Hard to tell from the stats.
High Tech B, Hunter A, and Kellenberg are second tier (25-48th) teams.
Check check no, because K'berg was in a bracket with HT B.
Mountain Lakes and Bergen Academies have outside chances to make second tier, but it'll be difficult.
A 60-point ML win over GW and a 10-point BCA win over NCSSM means check, check.
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Banana Stand » Tue May 27, 2014 3:09 am

PACE was a very enjoyable final tournament with my St. Joe's team, definitely one of the best I've played in terms of both level of competition and quality of questions. I thought it accurately represented the strength of our region this year, having four teams in the top tier, with High Tech at 5th, Charter at 9th, us at 19th, and Ridgewood at 22nd. Also, a Jared-less Charter B placing first among JV teams. I believe that Charter will be able to sustain a program capable of top-10 finishes for the next two years, at least. Good luck to everyone playing HSNCT this weekend. You may or may not know that St. Joe's won't be attending, but I hope it's as good of a tournament experience as PACE was.
Jack Mehr
St. Joe's NJ '14
UVA '19

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Re: NJ/NY 2013-2014

Post by Lo, Marathon Ham! » Tue May 27, 2014 3:38 pm

Banana Stand wrote:PACE was a very enjoyable final tournament with my St. Joe's team, definitely one of the best I've played in terms of both level of competition and quality of questions. I thought it accurately represented the strength of our region this year, having four teams in the top tier, with High Tech at 5th, Charter at 9th, us at 19th, and Ridgewood at 22nd. Also, a Jared-less Charter B placing first among JV teams. I believe that Charter will be able to sustain a program capable of top-10 finishes for the next two years, at least. Good luck to everyone playing HSNCT this weekend. You may or may not know that St. Joe's won't be attending, but I hope it's as good of a tournament experience as PACE was.
Yes, unfortunately Jared is not able to join us for nationals this year. Hopefully this will not be an issue in the future.
Mohan Malhotra
The Independence School '12
Charter School of Wilmington '16
New York University '20
Wilmington, DE/New York City, NY

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