Illinois '14-'15

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mhasquin
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by mhasquin »

IHSSBCA Kickoff Results from Southwestern at Piasa.

Field of 20 Teams. Nine Rounds played.
1st - Glenwood A
2nd - Marquette Catholic A
3rd - Southwestern A
4th - Litchfield A

This was our first time hosting a Kickoff and I am exhausted. Thanks to the schools that made the trip to the scenic plains of Piasa.

Field: Althoff Catholic; Auburn H.S.; Carlinville; Carrollton; Glenwood A/B; Greenville A/B/C; Highland A/B; Litchfield A/B; Marquette Catholic A/B; O'Fallon; Routt Catholic; Southwestern A/B; West Central Winchester.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Harpie's Feather Duster »

From what I've heard from friends at my alma mater, Newman Central Catholic won the Keith site and Belvidere North took second. I'm not sure about the rest.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

the charm wrote:From what I've heard from friends at my alma mater, Newman Central Catholic won the Keith site and Belvidere North took second. I'm not sure about the rest.
Yep -- stats are posted in the Keith Kickoff thread now.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Dominator »

As some of you may have heard, the IHSSBCA is once again sponsoring Team Illinois to compete at NASAT in June 2015. There has been a change in coaching staff this year - the coaches will be Brad Fischer of Keith Country Day School and Noah Prince of IMSA.

The official tryout for Team Illinois will take place on the weekend of NAQT State. However, in the interest of getting as much information as possible to use for picking the team, the coaches are asking interested players to email them (brad.a.fischer and nbprince, respectively, at gmail.com) to be placed on a candidates list. The coaches will then make an extra effort to see the candidates play at Saturday tournaments. They also hope to run a pre-tryout practice if an appropriate time and place can be arranged. (The tentative plan is to hold one in January.)

If you are interested and have not yet done so, email the coaches right away - there are some great tournaments in December that we’d like to see candidates play at. We are especially interested in players who can specialize in science since science probably has the largest difficulty increase from high school to NASAT level.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

The Masonic Sectional assignments are up and they are atrocious.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by dtaylor4 »

no ice wrote:The Masonic Sectional assignments are up and they are atrocious.
Oh child, those who expect fairness from the Masonic sectional pairings know little.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by kievanrustic »

This post has two purposes—(1) to rank teams, (2~most importantly) to look at the development of quiz bowl in Illinois.
With that preamble out of the way, let us begin.
Rankings:

Top Tier:

What teams, when they have their full rosters, are always in the finals? Exactly.
1: Auburn

Certainly the best team in Illinois. Auburn wins the most tournaments, has the best ppb, and only gets better when the difficulty gets harder (as seen at NTV with 16.7 ppb and in stellar performances on finals packets). This ranking is uncontroversial.
Scoring Distribution: (of full team)

Evan Pandya:

46% (Huskie); 44% (NTV); 43% (Loyburn); 37% (HFT)
Cole Timmerwilke:

44% (NTV); 42% (HFT); 42% (Huskie); 31% (Loyburn)
Mohammed Nizamuddin:

12 % (HFT); 10% (Huskie); 7% (Loyburn); 5% (NTV)
Steven Vo:

9% (HFT); 6% (NTV); 2% (Huskie)

2: IMSA

If Auburn is first, then it reasons that the team that faces it in the finals is second. Moving on.
Score Distribution:

Andrew Salij:
65% (NTV~3-man team); 52% (Loyburn); 46% (Huskie); 46% (HFT)
Waleed Ali:

27% (HFT); 22% (Huskie)
Dan Pechi:

25% (NTV~3-man team) 20% (Huskie); 18% (HFT); 17% (Loyburn)
Nathaniel Smith:

16% (Loyburn); 12% (Huskie); 9% (HFT)
Pranav Sivakumar:

16% (Loyburn); 10% (NTV~3-man team)
Note:

DCC and Northmont would be somewhere between Auburn and IMSA.
Second Tier:

These teams can upset Auburn and IMSA but lack the consistency to win tournaments against either.
3: Bloomington

A solid team composed of three great players. Loses competitively at higher difficulties, as seen at NTV. Nonetheless, a great regular-difficulty team.
SD:

Alston Boyd:

68% (Loyburn~no Meredith Pounds); 60% (NTV); 58% (Huskie); 53% (HFT)
Sam Emerson:

30% (HFT); 26% (Loyburn~no Meredith Pounds); 26% (Huskie); 26% (NTV)
Meredith Pounds:

17% (HFT); 16% (Huskie); 15% (NTV)
4: Carbondale

Carbondale is quite good, though it is over-ranked on the Morlan rankings. Has the disadvantage of needing to travel long distances for nearly every tournament that it attends.
SD:

Jonathan Huh:

56% (ACF Fall); 48% (Huskie Bowl); 44% (HFT)
Mahir Morshed:

47% (Huskie Bowl); 33% (ACF Fall); 32% (HFT)
Jay-Z:

24% (HFT)
Adam Tsung and Alex Metz:

0-10% at all tourneys

5: U Chicago Lab

Wow! Lab has shown that any program can become competitive with just a year or two of dedicated practice. Teams of Illinois, take note.
SD:
Adam Fine:

76% (NTV); 70% (Loyburn); 69% (Huskie)
Clare Keenan:

25% (Loyburn); 25% (Huskie) ; 20% (NTV)
Other:
Less than 10%
Third Tier:

Below the previous tier, but still dangerous.
6: Hinsdale Central

Decent, but neg-prone. Will be a contender next year.
SD:

In order, James Zhou, Sunny Chen, Harrison, Ankush Bajaj. No one dominates (i.e. gets more than 50% with a full team).
7: Barrington

Matthew Lehmann is strong on the buzzer, and he will likely get a handle on bonuses sooner or later.
SD:

Matthew gets majority of tossups, with a vast majority at lower difficulties.
Notable:

These teams are not in any real order but should be mentioned for their decent showings.
Metea Valley:

Its members know things. My only complaint is that they can’t stick to a specific pseudonym.
Stevenson:

Even though Jason Asher is gone, Stevenson is still alive. It made top 50 in the Morlan rankings, which is an accomplishment.
Auburn B:

The most notable B team this year and a testament to the coaching of Linda Greene.
OPRF:

I haven’t seen them play, but their stats are decent.
Fremd:

Jennie Yang is pretty good, but she needs support. She got 70% of her team’s ppg at HFT, and that was with team members switching out!
Loyola:

Rebuilding, I presume.
Latin:

If every current, minimally-active team acted like Latin, the Illinois quiz bowl circuit would be fantastic.
St. Ignatius:

Made the Morlan rankings and did pretty well at History Bee and Bowl.
Naperville North:

Has a good lead-scorer but needs a full team.
Williams Academy:

Lucas Williams gets good back-up from Zach Sutton.
Discussion:

Let’s look at the 2012-2013 season. During it, the three best teams were IMSA, Belvidere North, and Loyola, and Macomb, Auburn, and Stevenson made up the next tier. Belvidere North and Macomb were one-man teams which lost little competitive advantage when their lead-scorers played solo. Morgan Venkus led Loyola, getting a majority of the tossups and receiving support from Ian Torres and Zach Hayes. Anton Karpovich led IMSA and received solid support while still getting ~50% of the tossup points. Stevenson and Auburn had a greater score distribution which was similar to that of Hinsdale this year. Thus, in the 2012-2013 season, the top 6 teams were divided into two one-man teams, two teams led by a dominant player, and two teams with scoring diversity, albeit with leading players.

The closest thing to Belvidere North or Macomb this year is Barrington, but Barrington can’t break the top six. Auburn and Carbondale are both two-man teams with great support, and IMSA only has a dominant player around half the time. Bloomington and Lab have scoring distributions similar to that of the Loyola of yesteryear, but they have the most polarized distributions of the top Illinois teams and neither is as competitive as Loyola. Hinsdale Central has a breadth of players as previously discussed. It seems evident that quiz bowl in Illinois is transitioning from an activity dominated by great egos to one in which teams prove necessary.

This appears to be a beneficial transition, for it gets more people involved in quiz bowl. Apart from the obvious fact that a two-man team engages twice as many people as a one-man team, deeper teams (i.e., those with more strong players) make it evident to new quiz bowlers that one need not be an ubermensch in order to compete well in and to enjoy quiz bowl.
Furthermore, there are more great teams in Illinois than there were two years prior. Illinois has five top 25 quiz bowl teams in the nation this year and thirteen top 100 teams; two years ago those numbers were four and eight. Hopefully, this upward trend continues and Illinois quiz bowl will remain an activity that is both intense and fun for many teams.

This post is getting pretty long, so I’ll stop here for now.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by heterodyne »

kievanrustic wrote:words
I generally agree with these rankings, with a few quibbles. I do think that UC lab should probably be ranked above Carbondale, just based on the feeling I've had playing against both of them, but that's entirely my subjective impression since we don't have any good data comparing the two with full teams. Fremd needs to be higher. While Jennie hasn't been able to play much this year, she's good at quizbowl and things.

wrt the other theorizing about the direction of qb in IL in general: I don't know if it's possible to identify the increase in the number of balanced teams and the decrease in one-man teams as a "trend" just yet. It could be just a quirk in terms of the current team composition; we don't exactly have enough data to draw any stronger conclusions. IL teams might be stronger nationally than they have been since 2012, when you had 4 IL top PACE bracket teams and 2 more in the next bracket. That, at least, is a sign of positive progress. This is likely due to the greater proliferation of balanced teams as we have seen at the national level that, barring the Adam Silvermans, Sam Blizzards, and Eric Xus of the world, success is a lot harder with a less balanced team.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Harpie's Feather Duster »

At the very least, you would have to look back earlier than the 2012-2013 season to test your hypothesis. Also, a lot of the older players who are active now were still playing during the era of Loyola-IMSA-Belvidere North, so you could even argue that playing games against more one-man teams played some role in a commitment to balanced scoring.

Also, your implication that teammates of players who score a very large percentage of the points for their team are not engaged at all by quizbowl is naive at best and borderline offensive at worst.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Good Goblin Housekeeping »

when I was younger and much worse at quizbowl, losing to a sophomore Ben Chametzky didn't make me think you had to be an ubermensch and losing to 2009 Carbondale's balanced attack would not have fixed that either (If you are losing to THREE people who are consistently getting early buzzes as opposed to 1, you are still intimidated)
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by kievanrustic »

the charm wrote:At the very least, you would have to look back earlier than the 2012-2013 season to test your hypothesis. Also, a lot of the older players who are active now were still playing during the era of Loyola-IMSA-Belvidere North, so you could even argue that playing games against more one-man teams played some role in a commitment to balanced scoring.

Also, your implication that teammates of players who score a very large percentage of the points for their team are not engaged at all by quizbowl is naive at best and borderline offensive at worst.
Yes, this is an untested hypothesis. Perhaps one should look at scoring distribution over the years and test for significance between balanced-scoring in the top echelon of Illinois quiz bowl and tournament attendance or some other metric to gauge engagement.

Secondly, I was not implying that teammates of highly dominant players are not engaged but rather that they are not gaining as much from quiz bowl as they would if they had a more active role on their team. People have the freedom to make quiz bowl as small or as large of a commitment as they want in their lives, but in having a smaller role on their teams they get less out of quiz bowl since they put less in. My theory goes that dominant players make it easy for people with the potential to become greatly involved in quiz bowl to become sidelined. Teams that are built around one locus have few spots for new players to have a significant role as the knowledge cliff to become a contributing member is raised due to the fact that one player has filled all the subject niches.

Even if this theory is wrong, I find it difficult to believe that low-scoring players are as engaged as we should want them to be. Quiz bowlers, being lovers of knowledge, should seek to spread understanding and the joy of learning to as many people as possible, and that means getting people into quiz bowl. If someone is tuned out during the reading of a question because of a dominant teammate. then they are not spending their time as effectively or learning as much as they could. This is not to say that all should be generalists, for specialists are using their faculties to a greater extent during "their" period of the game.

Lets assume that a high school is composed of 1000 students. If its quiz bowl team has one highly-engaged player and four people who are largely along for the ride, then only .1% of the school's population gets to fully experience the joy of quiz bowl and only .4% even gets the diluted benefit. Deep squads spread quiz bowl benefit to more; a squad with three competitive teams and that draws from 20 people (since all cannot go to all tournaments) enlightens 2% of a population.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Good Goblin Housekeeping »

kievanrustic wrote:wall of crap
Dude are you serious?
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by heterodyne »

I can personally confirm that playing against very good one man teams definitely does not wreck motivation or growth. In fact, it does the opposite. One of the motivational factors in me becoming ok between sophomore and junior years was being beaten up on by Dylan, Tristan, and Sam.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Beevor Feevor »

While I'm not from Illinois, I have some things to weigh in on, if that's alright.

Obviously, getting every single tossup at practice against complete novices to the game will drive away players, and no player who is getting above 125ish ppg should be going all-out at practice every single minute against the rest of the team. Practices should be set up so that the entire team gets something out of them, and having one player utterly dominate is not the best way to go about it (aside from inflating an ego).

For teams that have one player who's consistently getting a majority of the points, it may be good to hold separate practices with the main scorer reading only questions that the other teammates are expected to specialize in/are interested in. That would be a more efficient use of time than having them lose interest, and the main scorer can alternate about halfway through so that he/she still gets some practice time.

As far as actual tournaments go, I think that playing a really good individual has the same effect as playing a really good, balanced team, and can maybe be more motivational to individual players.

Anyway, that's my spiel, and I'll go back to lurking.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by remake20 »

Throwing in my two cents here from a non-elite/from Chicagoland (which for downstaters is everything north of Peoria) point of view. I think the answer to this is much simpler than has been presented. People either enjoy quizbowl and improving, or they don't. Having "super players" doesn't effect whether people like quizbowl or they don't. I can understand how having one player wreck practices can discourage new players, but that shouldn't change their opinion on the game as a whole. My experience is that these "super players" seem to increase or decrease the level of care respectively, but not change it. Here in quaint little Litchfield, the recent David York is my example, and while far below the levels of say Eric or Evan/Cole, he sure seemed pretty god-like to the rest of the team. For me, who enjoys quiz bowl immensely, I was nothing but perhaps inspired by him and wanted to improve even more. However, for the rest of my teammates, who most of which seemed to be along for a ride, playing with someone so good in their eyes made them completely uninterested games (notably the elaborate artwork on their paper at a match's conclusion).
This is a trend that has only seemed to continue into this year in which I, though being far from being anywhere near great, am seen as a very good player by my teammates (many of whom have no idea the level of play that exists in some places). I still see frequent doodling and other non-interest despite my efforts to spike some. At the same time, I seem to have left some sort of impression on my younger brother, who has seemed to increase his studying time since he started playing with me. Hopefully this was at least somewhat enlightening, being from a different viewpoint.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by kievanrustic »

Nobody is saying that great players do not inspire others. I never wrote that, and this thread is misguided if people continue to argue over this point. What I did say was that teams with more people active have more people who are benefiting from quiz bowl. This is a tautological statement, and perhaps I should not have made it due to its self-evident nature.

Regarding my ubermensch comment, I meant that deep teams show that having many players who are fairly active is a successful archetype that potentially draws people to quiz bowl. With the example of Hinsdale Central, people see that they can form competitive teams even if they do not have an all-star player.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

After the Kaneland tournament, I was planning on making a post proclaiming Ankush the best third scorer in the state, but after NAQT State, I think it would be more reasonable to say that the top third scorer is either Sunny or me, or maybe the third scorer on a full IMSA or Carbondale.

Ankush Bajaj is a quizbowl god.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by heterodyne »

If this is a discussion we're having, I'm gonna throw out Meredith, given that on non-naqt sets she basically locks down 3 questions.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

Nationals Update:

There are 22 spots left in the 2015 NAQT HSNCT, and only 20 Illinois teams are registered, which is 9 less than last year.

There are 19 spots left in the 2015 PACE NSC, and there are 7 Illinois teams registered (compared to 8 last year). Even though Hinsdale will be attending this without our coach, we are the only IL team that has confirmed our spot in the field so far.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by David Riley »

More will likely be added, this is often a question of availability of funds by deadlines, etc.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by the return of AHAN »

I know that Barrington HS has reserved a spot for PACE. HSNCT bumps up against final exams and they're not jazzed about having that sort of conflict.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by nsb2 »

no ice wrote:After the Kaneland tournament, I was planning on making a post proclaiming Ankush the best third scorer in the state, but after NAQT State, I think it would be more reasonable to say that the top third scorer is either Sunny or me, or maybe the third scorer on a full IMSA or Carbondale.

Ankush Bajaj is a quizbowl god.
On that note, I'll throw in Dan Pechi. He covers a wide range of topics and also is the best industrial arts player in the state (as evidenced by his first-lining a Masonic question on balsa wood today in practice).
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by the return of AHAN »

nsb2 wrote:
no ice wrote:the best industrial arts player in the state
Oh, I must have stumbled into the Illinois forum...
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by AKKOLADE »

the return of AHAN wrote:
nsb2 wrote:
no ice wrote:the best industrial arts player in the state
Oh, I must have stumbled into the Illinois forum...
god bless this quiz bowl mess
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by MorganV »

the return of AHAN wrote:I know that Barrington HS has reserved a spot for PACE. HSNCT bumps up against final exams and they're not jazzed about having that sort of conflict.
yeah that would sure be a shame :smile:
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by The Formiddable Dark Skeik »

Just to throw in my two cents since I attend Barrington. We've had about twelve people express an interest in going to PACE (respectable given that is the normal amount that attends regular tournaments). Unfortunately, the current associated costs stand at $700, so that number will probably go down. There is also a conflict with Summer school.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Mike Wong »

I'll be liveblogging IHSA Regional results on the IHSSBCA site later this evening. Follow along at http://www.ihssbca.org/regionals-live/
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Someone should host Prison Bowl in April or May.

EDIT: Maybe not. First reactions are...not positive.
Last edited by Irreligion in Bangladesh on Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Harpie's Feather Duster »

I can't officially reserve rooms until Spring Quarter starts (beginning of April), but I've heard enough interest from people that I'm open to either running Midwest/Prison Bowl across a whole weekend, but would rather just run one of the tournaments on a Saturday unless I'm certain I can get enough stat commitments for both. If we host 1, it will probably be Prison Bowl.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

kievanrustic wrote:With the example of Hinsdale Central, people see that they can form competitive teams even if they do not have an all-star player.
Ankush Bajaj is a quizbowl god.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by bajaj »

Craise Finton Kirk Royal Academy of Arts wrote:I can't officially reserve rooms until Spring Quarter starts (beginning of April), but I've heard enough interest from people that I'm open to either running Midwest/Prison Bowl across a whole weekend, but would rather just run one of the tournaments on a Saturday unless I'm certain I can get enough stat commitments for both. If we host 1, it will probably be Prison Bowl.
Has there been any decision on running either one of the two yet?
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

bajaj wrote:
Craise Finton Kirk Royal Academy of Arts wrote:I can't officially reserve rooms until Spring Quarter starts (beginning of April), but I've heard enough interest from people that I'm open to either running Midwest/Prison Bowl across a whole weekend, but would rather just run one of the tournaments on a Saturday unless I'm certain I can get enough stat commitments for both. If we host 1, it will probably be Prison Bowl.
Has there been any decision on running either one of the two yet?
If Prison Bowl is not preferable, and DII SCT and ICT have been played by some Illinois teams already, it would be really cool if we could mirror SSNCT. What else besides VTACO has not been played in Illinois yet?
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by atai »

Prison Bowl has been certified "satisfactory" by PACE.

I'm aware that there was some initial backlash regarding our set, but we've made a lot of substantial edits since.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Harpie's Feather Duster »

We will not be hosting this spring due to the fact that we aren't particularly money-needy and I don't think I can throw together a well-run tournament in less than a month. Our spring tournament will likely return next year.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

If you are staying for the ICTM State Finals Awards Ceremony *and* going to the IHSSBCA Awards Banquet this Saturday, please e-mail me ([email protected]) ASAP. I have a hypothetical favor to ask of you.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

In anticipation of a less-than-stellar HSNCT showing tomorrow given our 1-4 record at scrimmages tonight, I would like to express, in advance, my regrets to the state of Illinois for being unable to reach the high expectations set for us in the IHSSBCA newsletter.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

no ice wrote:In anticipation of a less-than-stellar HSNCT showing tomorrow given our 1-4 record at scrimmages tonight, I would like to express, in advance, my regrets to the state of Illinois for being unable to reach the high expectations set for us in the IHSSBCA newsletter.
So less-than-stellar is an 8-2 prelim record, huh?

(BTW, congrats to you guys on your performance! I hope to see you at PACE if you're making it out there)
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Stained Diviner »

Number of HSNCT playoff teams by state:
IL 13
CA 12
TX 9
MI 6
NJ 6
OH 6
KY 5
MN 5
TN 5
GA 4
MD 4
FL 3
NY 3
PA 3
VA 3
CT 2
MA 2
NC 2
OK 2
DC 1
DE 1
IN 1
MO 1
NC 1
NH 1
ON 1
SC 1
VT 1
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by no ice »

The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:
no ice wrote:In anticipation of a less-than-stellar HSNCT showing tomorrow given our 1-4 record at scrimmages tonight, I would like to express, in advance, my regrets to the state of Illinois for being unable to reach the high expectations set for us in the IHSSBCA newsletter.
So less-than-stellar is an 8-2 prelim record, huh?
Ankush Bajaj is a quizbowl god.

Also, congrats to IMSA for extending the streak to five years of an Illinois team finishing 5th or better at HSNCT.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Halved Xenon Stinging »

no ice wrote:
The Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi wrote:
no ice wrote:In anticipation of a less-than-stellar HSNCT showing tomorrow given our 1-4 record at scrimmages tonight, I would like to express, in advance, my regrets to the state of Illinois for being unable to reach the high expectations set for us in the IHSSBCA newsletter.
So less-than-stellar is an 8-2 prelim record, huh?
Ankush Bajaj is a quizbowl god.

Also, congrats to IMSA for extending the streak to five years of an Illinois team finishing 5th or better at HSNCT.
Congrats to Ankush Bajaj and imsa
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by remake20 »

Huge congrats to the Illinois teams who once again represent our state well on the national level. Particularly to IMSA for having almost a perfect 50% power rate across the board, making my eyes happy. Oh yeah, and 4th place is pretty cool too I guess.
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Re: Illinois '14-'15

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Illinois was really well-represented this weekend; particular congratulations to Naperville North, who stormed to a fantastic t-13 showing, from a 6-4 Saturday, in their first HSNCT!
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