ICT invitations

[Leo Wolpert]

For reference, here's the Div I and Div II lists.

Let the bitching and/or potential ranking of the fields commence.

[Skepticism and Animal Feed]

The following teams played as Undergrad at SCT and have qualified for ICT:

Ottawa
McGill
Chicago B
Truman State
Carleton A
Wisconsin
Carleton B
Williams
Harvard
Harding

Of course, due to the disorganized and informal nature of the UG "division", its likely that this will not be the actual list of undergrad teams at ICT. For instance, last year Chicago B was Undergrad at SCT, and then added David Press at ICT and became just a regular Div I team.

Anyone know if any UG SCT teams plan to add a graduate, or of any Div I teams becoming UG for ICT?

[Chris Frankel]

Quick ICT Predictions:

1. Illinois
2. Chicago A

dropoff here

3. Brown

dropoff here

Some order of Virginia (if they keep Leo Wolberg instead of that horrible Leo Wolpert), Princeton, UNC, Yale, and UCLA. Weiner/VCU is worth mentioning, in spite of his SCT showing, and if the Harvard team that went 5-7 at SCT was playing at less than full strength, they should be in this group too.

Basically, after Illinois, Chicago, and Brown, all the teams look to be diluted from their full potential, so it looks like we'll have an almost lock for the top 3, and everything after that will be an interesting dogfight.

[NoahMinkCHS]

I wish someone had posted the list here... NAQT's website has had a lot of downtime lately, it seems, and it's offline right now.

Guess I'll wait...

[ezubaric]

I wish someone had posted the list here...

One spot is currently being reserved for a potential British participant.

* British Columbia
* Brown
* Cal-Berkeley
* Carleton College
* Carnegie Mellon
* Chicago A
* Chicago B
* Florida
* Georgia
* Harding
* Harvard
* Illinois
* McGill
* Michigan
* Minnesota
* North Carolina
* Ottawa
* Princeton
* Simon Fraser
* Southern Cal
* Stanford
* Texas
* Texas A&M
* Tulsa
* UCLA
* Vanderbilt
* Virginia
* Virginia Commonwealth
* Williams
* Wisconsin
* Yale

The top teams on the Division I waitlist are:

1. Rochester
2. Rutgers
3. Carleton College
4. Dartmouth
5. South Florida
6. Columbia

[ezubaric]

I wish someone had posted the list here...

D2 ...

* Amherst
* Bevill State CC-Jasper
* Broward CC
* Caltech
* Carleton College
* Chicago
* Cloud County CC
* Columbia
* Faulkner State
* Florida State
* George Washington
* Georgia
* Grinnell
* Hamline
* Harvard
* Johns Hopkins
* Louisiana-Lafayette
* Manatee CC
* Maryland
* Michigan
* NYU
* Oklahoma
* Oxford College
* Queen's
* Penn
* Princeton A
* Princeton B
* Snead State CC
* Stanford
* Valencia CC
* Vanderbilt
* Virginia

The top teams on the four-year Division II waitlist are:

1. Southern Virginia
2. UCLA
3. Oklahoma State
4. Florida
5. Dartmouth

The top teams on the two-year Division II waitlist are:

1. South Georgia College
2. Valencia CC
3. Central Florida CC
4. Indian River CC
5. Bainbridge College

[Llanowan]

Glad to see NYU got a D2 invite, they were playing very well and were at like 7-1 or something with very high scores when they had to leave because of the storm. They sorta dodged the harder teams in the afternoon, but they should definitely (I think) still get a chance. Glad to see NAQT's secret forumla doing something right.

[miamiqb]

man, if I had beaten SVU I would be on that waitlist and probably would be going to ICT. Oh well...How bout Div 2?
Of the teams I have seen Princeton and FSU are good. Harvard is supposedly tops.

EDIT: adding Stanford and Caltech (aka Noah) to my mental list. Thanks Raj.

[NotBhan]

I was rather disappointed that Florida not only didn't get a D2 bid, but ended up 4th on the waitlist. With a ppb of 18.27 and a good overall performance, I thought they'd at least be ahead of teams like NYU and Southern Virginia, who were (by record, at least) 7th and 8th in their sectional. (No offense intended to either of those teams.) Florida B only had about 2 powers per match, so maybe that was deemed a significant stat. Oh well. It could be useful data for anyone trying to reverse-engineer the "S-values" or whatever those things are called.

--Raj Dhuwalia

P.S. And in reply to Jay, the best D2 numbers came from Stanford, which not only had the highest bonus average but had 3 players with over 42ppg. Stanford and Caltech were both around 5.5 powers per game, which were the highest numbers by a fair margin. So I'd add those to the teams you mentioned above.

P.P.S. Amherst did very well in D2 -- do they have some former HS star player?

[miamiqb]

I was rather disappointed that Florida not only didn't get a D2 bid, but ended up 4th on the waitlist. With a ppb of 18.27 and a good overall performance, I thought they'd at least be ahead of teams like NYU and Southern Virginia, who were (by record, at least) 7th and 8th in their sectional. (No offense intended to either of those teams.) Florida B only had about 2 powers per match, so maybe that was deemed a significant stat. Oh well. It could be useful data for anyone trying to reverse-engineer the "S-values" or whatever those things are called.

--Raj Dhuwalia

Raj, as a guy who has competed pretty much solo in the Southeast and the Mid-Atlantic I have to say that the Div2 crop this year was much tougher in the latter region. Princeton (x 2 teams), Johns Hopkins, and Penn will all probably be competing for the Div2 crown at ICT. After that GW A and Virginia were solid teams. NYU should probably be up there with the big 3 but left early because of the snow. And SVU finished with a solid performance (though you have to ask me sometime about the story of the round against them...grrr...it was frustrating).
Meanwhile the only Div2 team I saw that really, really impressed me (of course this could have changed since the fall) was FSU (watch out for them). No offense to other Florida teams, but FSU is clearly the cream of the crop. After that it is murky.
UF probably should be higher on the wait list with that bonus conversion...but the tossup stats were much higher in Mid-Atlantic if you compare them (as I did out of curiosity). Don't worry...I am sure they will wind up going (unlike me).

[No Sollositing On Premise]

This is a slightly insignificant complaint, but why did Rochester receive a DI waitlist spot (the top waitlist spot, incidentally) and Virginia B didn't? Both took part in the Eastern sectional at College Park. Virginia B was 2-0 against Rochester (Virginia B was 9-4 overall, while Rochester was 6-7 overall), and had higher PPG, PPTH, and total powers and fewer negs. Virginia B also has a win over a qualifying team (Princeton) while Rochester had no such wins. The only stats/facts I see in Rochester's favor are a higher bonus conversion (.05 PPB more), and the fact that Rochester is an undergraduate qualifier while Virginia B isn't. Does being UG really provide that much of an advantage for qualifying?

[Susan]

This was addressed on the other board, but the Rochester that qualified for the ICT is presumably Fred Bush playing solo in the Southwest SCT.

[vandyhawk]

EDIT - what she said

[Matt Weiner]

Irrespective of the two Rochesters issue, it used to be considered common wisdom that B teams received some sort of derogatory multiplier onto their S values that made it more difficult for them to qualify. Of course, this may have been baseless all along, or may have once been true and since changed, since NAQT chooses not to reveal exactly how one qualifies for the ICT (a silly practice that ought to end). However, the possibility should be taken into account when assessing Virginia B's likelihood of qualifying.

[First Chairman]

Silly practice or not, NAQT has the right to invite people with whatever proprietary metric they see fit. Sure I wish there were more transparency, but it's probably not the most critical problem NAQT faces with their ICT program.

[your mom]

Looks like it's a reasonably safe bet to toss Michigan into the UG melting pot. Will Turner and I are the entire team as of now, and it's unclear as to me if we will have any other players joining us. If we do, they will almost certainly be undergrads as well.

I'd say we'll make at least a little noise among the UG eligible teams, though I doubt we'll seriously contest for the UG title.

Look forward to seeing everyone in Maryland.

David

[MCDoug]

It looks like Florida will also be going as an UG team with David and Stephen from the SCT team and Amy Harvey and a yet unnamed player.

I'm also quite curious as to how certain Div II teams are ahead of Florida on the waitlist.

And to Jay, this UF team was very different than the UF teams you played at Novice at USF, although it's still not to the level of the FSU team at full strength in my opinion. In case anyone cares, the FSU team was missing one of their "big three" for SCT, who may or may not be going with them to ICT.

[miamiqb]

And to Jay, this UF team was very different than the UF teams you played at Novice at USF, although it's still not to the level of the FSU team at full strength in my opinion. In case anyone cares, the FSU team was missing one of their "big three" for SCT, who may or may not be going with them to ICT.

I thought the Div2 team might be different since it was split up at USF Novice. That is why I qualified my answer (just from what I have seen). Good luck at ICT

[jagluski]

if the Harvard team that went 5-7 at SCT was playing at less than full strength, they should be in this group too.

This team was just two people; one was Paco and apologies to the other whose name I have forgotten.

[No Sollositing On Premise]

This was addressed on the other board, but the Rochester that qualified for the ICT is presumably Fred Bush playing solo in the Southwest SCT.

OK, that makes sense. Sorry if I sounded bitchy.

[Kyle]

if the Harvard team that went 5-7 at SCT was playing at less than full strength, they should be in this group too.

This team was just two people; one was Paco and apologies to the other whose name I have forgotten.

The other member of Harvard's Div I team was Frank Kelly, who was very sick most of the day and who could stand up only because our Div II team kept him well supplied with Advil. A healthy Frank and a full squad will be much better if they can all make it to the ICT. I've never posted here before, but I do so now because I think Frank and Paco deserve some sort of commendation regarding the SCT. When it became clear that we would only be able to rent a car that seated five people, they insisted that we take three people for the Div II team, even though in the end that left the Div I team with a losing record. The full (healthy) squad is much better than that and I'm just glad that their generosity toward us did not cost them an ICT invitation in the end.

Regarding the previous discussion of Amherst's Div II team, it was led by Ben Bishop, who played with me last year in high school (Lakeside, WA). Ben played a great game at the SCT in order to beat my team the second time we played, which was, I think, one of his major goals in attending the tournament. Several of his other teammates were good as well, but alas I don't remember their names. A hearty congratulations to them for a well-played tournament.

- Kyle (of Harvard's Div II team)

[grapesmoker]

The other member of Harvard's Div I team was Frank Kelly, who was very sick most of the day and who could stand up only because our Div II team kept him well supplied with Advil. A healthy Frank and a full squad will be much better if they can all make it to the ICT. I've never posted here before, but I do so now because I think Frank and Paco deserve some sort of commendation regarding the ICT. When it became clear that we would only be able to rent a car that seated five people, they insisted that we take three people for the Div II team, even though in the end that left the Div I team with a losing record. The full (healthy) squad is much better than that and I'm just glad that their generosity toward us did not cost them an ICT invitation in the end.

The full Harvard team, if I'm not mistaken, is typically Frank (healthy), Paco, and Will. I think that same team would do better at ACF than at NAQT, but I'm certain they can finish in the top 10 and break top 5 if they have a good tournament. I'm glad they made it to the ICT.

[MiltonPlayer47]

FSU will not have its "big three" at ICT. It will most likely be Alford, Beyer, Buckey, and a fourth player to be determined later.

[samer]

Irrespective of the two Rochesters issue, it used to be considered common wisdom that B teams received some sort of derogatory multiplier onto their S values that made it more difficult for them to qualify. Of course, this may have been baseless all along, or may have once been true and since changed, since NAQT chooses not to reveal exactly how one qualifies for the ICT (a silly practice that ought to end). However, the possibility should be taken into account when assessing Virginia B's likelihood of qualifying.

Back when I was doing prognostications for the ICT qualification (around 2001 or so), I did not include any such penalties in the computations, and still got surprisingly accurate results.

And, AFAIK, there is no such penalty in the S-value system, either.

[solonqb]

Is Sam Lederer playing for Harvard Quizbowl? He and Jacob seem to have not continued in college.

[NRScout98]

No, they are not.

[jewtemplar]

A little late, but it looks like I am playing at NAQT nationals, although I've been to no other tournaments all year.

[wd4gdz]

A little late, but it looks like I am playing at NAQT nationals, although I've been to no other tournaments all year.

Div1 or Div2?

[jewtemplar]

Div II.