2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

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2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

This is your discussion thread for specific questions from the 2018 Division I ICT.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Cheynem »

The Tahiti tossup seemed to suggest the mutiny on the Bounty was against Fletcher Christian, not led by him.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

"Era" was a somewhat suspicious pronoun for "The Fifties". Is there a reason why anything more specific couldn't have been used?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Cheynem wrote:The Tahiti tossup seemed to suggest the mutiny on the Bounty was against Fletcher Christian, not led by him.
Yeah, we messed this up—the offending phrase is "A mutiny against Fletcher Christian derailed the Bounty's journey to . . ."

I've fixed this up in the DI set. Thankfully the mistake was caught and fixed in the DII and IPNCT sets before the tournament.

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

An Economic Ignoramus wrote:"Era" was a somewhat suspicious pronoun for "The Fifties". Is there a reason why anything more specific couldn't have been used?
To head off any confusion, the DI set had a sociology tossup on the 1950s (in America), while the DII set had a completely unrelated tossup on the 1950s in Chinese history. The DII tossup says "this decade" from the beginning; the DI tossup says "this time period" for the first two sentences, then the third and last sentence says "this decade."

Speaking for myself, I thought "this decade" coupled with early context clues would too quickly narrow down the answer space: for instance, "the rise of Holiday Inn" is an early clue; I felt that plus "the answer is a decade" would be too clear a signal that the answer is one of maybe four or five things.

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

In the horses-in-myth tossup, the phrasing on the Socrates clue was less than ideal for live play at game speed. In my room, the clue "In the 'Apology,' Socrates described himself as--" triggered an immediate buzz of "fly," and why wouldn't it, so close to FTP?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by The Stately Rhododendron »

Could I see the "subaltern" TU from Round 15? Something in there is sticking in my mind, but I'm not sure what..
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Aaron's Rod »

I would love to see the bonus on "Box" and "Cox," so I can get it framed or something.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Auger recombination »

I was pretty surprised that the bonus part on "reduced mass" didn't have mu listed as an (at least promptable) answer. There was another case later in the day when Maia said a Greek letter for a different bonus and wasn't prompted. Was there a conscious decision on NAQT's part to not include Greek letters in the answerlines of science questions?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Chromica »

Kasper Kaijanen wrote:Was there a conscious decision on NAQT's part to not include Greek letters in the answerlines of science questions?
If I recall correctly Victor answered with a Greek letter for a tossup, was prompted, and then was able to give the correct answer, so if it is policy it's not uniform in its application.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by jonah »

Kasper Kaijanen wrote:I was pretty surprised that the bonus part on "reduced mass" didn't have mu listed as an (at least promptable) answer. There was another case later in the day when Maia said a Greek letter for a different bonus and wasn't prompted. Was there a conscious decision on NAQT's part to not include Greek letters in the answerlines of science questions?
Correctness guideline C.16 wrote:Symbols commonly used for mathematical and physical quantities (e.g. S for entropy) are rarely acceptable and may or may not be promptable. In a limited number of cases, near-universal use (e.g. e for Euler’s number or h for Planck’s constant) may make such symbols acceptable.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by RexSueciae »

Could I please see the bonus where the middle part (if I remember correctly) (at least, it was the second of the three parts) was "holotype"? The answer we gave was "type specimen" which was evidently not deemed acceptable or promptable.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

In a bonus part, Bakongo was not accepted for the "Kongo People". Given that Bakongo is this ethnic group's endonym, this should not be the case.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by RexSueciae »

Oh, right, could I also see the tossup on the Los Angeles Times bombing, from the same packet as the last two questions? Nothing wrong with this one, I just wanted to see it again since it is apparently more notable than I first thought.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Muriel Axon »

RexSueciae wrote:Could I please see the bonus where the middle part (if I remember correctly) (at least, it was the second of the three parts) was "holotype"? The answer we gave was "type specimen" which was evidently not deemed acceptable or promptable.
Seconded! I've worked with museum specimens and have plenty of colleagues who do much more so. Everyone just says "type specimen."
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Chromica »

Could I see the tossup on the 1910s? I had a sense it was that, but never heard anything definitive to buzz on, so I'd like to see what I missed.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

The Stately Rhododendron wrote:Could I see the "subaltern" TU from Round 15? Something in there is sticking in my mind, but I'm not sure what..
2018 DI ICT round 15 wrote:The "knowledges" of this group--such as "border thinking"--are discussed in Walter Mignolo's Local Histories/Global Designs, which refers to it in the subtitle. Jacques Derrida's term antre describes a "buffer" separating this group in an essay arguing that the "Foucault-Deleuze conversation" "short-circuits" the "crisis of the (*) subject." This term coined by Antonio Gramsci was used by South Asian scholars to create a "history from below." For 10 points--a Gayatri Spivak paper asks if what people can "speak"?

answer: (the) _subaltern_ (accept _subaltern_ knowledges or _Subaltern_ Studies Group or _Can the Subaltern Speak_?)
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Aaron's Rod wrote:I would love to see the bonus on "Box" and "Cox," so I can get it framed or something.
2018 DI ICT round 13 wrote:A play about these two characters was adapted into a comic opera in the 1860s by Arthur Sullivan. For 10 points each--

A. Name these two men who simultaneously rent a room from Mrs. Bouncer in a farce by John Maddison Morton.

answer: John _Box_
James _Cox_ (accept in either order; accept _Box and Cox_ or _Cox and Box_)

B. A cox box is a device used in this sport to measure stroke rate, and is so called because the coxswain uses it to keep track of the crew's performance.

answer: _rowing_ (or _crew_; accept _sweep_ rowing or _scull_ rowing or _sculling_)

C. In statistics, the power parameter in a Box-Cox transformation is represented by this Greek letter. In a system named after this letter, a term is in beta normal form if no further beta reduction is possible.

answer: _lambda_ (accept _lambda_ calculus)
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

RexSueciae wrote:Could I please see the bonus where the middle part (if I remember correctly) (at least, it was the second of the three parts) was "holotype"? The answer we gave was "type specimen" which was evidently not deemed acceptable or promptable.
RexSueciae wrote:For 10 points each--answer the following about the Marleyimyia xylocopae fly, which was first described in 2015:

A. Its description controversially relied on photograph}s instead of one of these taxonomic specimens, typically the first physically collected individual of a species.

answer: _holotype_s
I think _type_ specimens should be acceptable here; I've changed the answer line (DI and DII) accordingly.

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

An Economic Ignoramus wrote:In a bonus part, Bakongo was not accepted for the "Kongo People". Given that Bakongo is this ethnic group's endonym, this should not be the case.
I've added _Bakongo_ to the answer line.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

RexSueciae wrote:Oh, right, could I also see the tossup on the Los Angeles Times bombing, from the same packet as the last two questions? Nothing wrong with this one, I just wanted to see it again since it is apparently more notable than I first thought.
2018 DI ICT round 12 wrote:The man responsible for this event, who was identified by a confession given by Ortie McManigal, used the pseudonym J. B. Bryce. A companion to this event failed to damage the home of F. J. Zeehandelaar, secretary of the Merchants and Manufacturers' Association. The head of the company hurt by this crime, who coined the phrase "you are (*) either with me, or against me," was Harrison Gray Otis. The McNamara brothers committed--for 10 points--what 1910 terrorist attack on a California newspaper?

answer: _L.A. Times bombing_ (or _Los Angeles Times bombing_; accept equivalents that refer both to the _L.A. Times_ or _Los Angeles Times_ and the concept of a _bomb_ or _attack_; prompt on answers such as "Times bombing" or "Times attack" that do not mention "L.A." or "Los Angeles")
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Chromica wrote:Could I see the tossup on the 1910s? I had a sense it was that, but never heard anything definitive to buzz on, so I'd like to see what I missed.
2018 DI ICT round 3 wrote:In this calendar decade, a massacre of miners at Myslowice prompted the first Silesian Uprising. In this decade, political parties agreed to the Burgfriedenspolitik, a temporary truce. People ate "kriegsbrot" in this decade due to a blockade that caused (*) "turnip winter" and starved approximately 760,000 people. During it, Friedrich Ebert became President under a constitution later amended by the Enabling Act. For 10 points--name this decade in which the Weimar Republic began.

answer: _1910_s (prompt on "10s" or "tens")
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by ThisIsMyUsername »

As the author of both the only John Cleese-themed Festivus packet and the only food tossup specifically on chocolates from the Crunchy Frog sketch, I would be remiss if I did not note that the Cleese-played character Eric Praline is not the manufacturer of chocolates in the Crunchy Frog sketch (as I believe the bonus in Packet 1 suggested), but rather the inspector investigating the manufacturer (who is played by Terry Jones).
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Cheynem »

Wow, I actually never really made the connection that Cleese is supposed to be playing the same guy in the Dead Parrot sketch and those other sketches (yes, I know he's wearing the same wardrobe and speaks in the same way, don't judge me for being dense). John is correct about the bonus' inaccurate description of Crunchy Frog; I also think the bonus should have probably just said he's in the Dead Parrot sketch instead of saying "he rants about euphemisms for death."
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

ThisIsMyUsername wrote:As the author of both the only John Cleese-themed Festivus packet and the only food tossup specifically on chocolates from the Crunchy Frog sketch, I would be remiss if I did not note that the Cleese-played character Eric Praline is not the manufacturer of chocolates in the Crunchy Frog sketch (as I believe the bonus in Packet 1 suggested), but rather the inspector investigating the manufacturer (who is played by Terry Jones).
This has been fixed.

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Emperor Pupienus »

Could you please post the tossup on Wu? It seemed really difficult from my recollection, and I'm curious to see what the pre-FTP clues were.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Emperor Pupienus wrote:Could you please post the tossup on Wu? It seemed really difficult from my recollection, and I'm curious to see what the pre-FTP clues were.
I assume you mean the tossup on Wei:
2018 DI ICT round 2 wrote:A dynasty of this name required each would-be empress to forge a golden statue. That dynasty of this name began construction of the Longmen grottoes under Emperor Xiaowen, who belonged to the Tuoba clan of the Xianbei people. Chen Qun created the "nine-rank" system for choosing officials as a minister for a kingdom of this name that captured (*) Hwando, the capital of Goguryeo, in AD 244. The descendants of Cao Cao ruled—for 10 points—which one of the Three Kingdoms that warred with Shu and Wu?

answer: Wei (accept Cao Wei or Northern Wei or Later Wei or Tuan Wei or Yuan Wei)
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Muriel Axon »

Can I see the tossup on frequentist statistics? I heard (or misheard) it as saying that credible intervals are used in frequentist statistics, when in fact they are used in Bayesian statistics.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Muriel Axon wrote:Can I see the tossup on frequentist statistics? I heard (or misheard) it as saying that credible intervals are used in frequentist statistics, when in fact they are used in Bayesian statistics.
2018 DI ICT round 12 wrote:This approach is often used on the German tank problem, for which it yields a simple formula and not a mass function. Richard von Mises added a requirement of random sequences to John Venn's definition of probability in this approach. It eschews credible (*) intervals in favor of confidence intervals, and avoids the subjective decision of choosing a prior. Long-term rates of events are central in—for 10 points—what approach to statistical inference that is contrasted with Bayesianism?

answer: frequentism (or frequentist)
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Gemistus Pletho »

May I see the tossups on Colonies, Mt. Etna and Manganese. For the latter, I want to see what enzymes were mentioned.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

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2018 DI ICT round 9 wrote:An individual called an oikistes was appointed to lead these places. Isopoliteia treaties often led to the depopulation of these places. Leonard Woolley ignited a controversy by claiming that the Syrian site of Al-Mina was one of these places. With the exception of (*) cleruchies, most of these places maintained their political independence. Rhegium, Massalia, and Syracuse are examples of—for 10 points—what sites established around the Mediterranean by city-states such as Athens?

answer: colonies or colony (or apoikia; accept cleruchies before "cleruchies"; prompt on "emporia" or "emporium"; prompt on "city state(s)" before "city-states")
2018 DI ICT round 7 wrote:In Book 3 of the Aeneid, the Trojans spend a dark, horrible night in a forest next to this natural feature, then meet Achaemenides in the morning. A wood nymph who loved Hephaestus lends her name to this place, which Callimachus says is the prison of the Hecatoncheir Briareos. Various sources claim it is the (*) burial site of the giant Enceladus, or the structure above Typhon's head. For 10 points—name this site of Hephaestus's forge and the legendary suicide of Empedocles, a volcano on Sicily.

answer: Mount Etna (or Aetna Mons; or Aitna; prompt on "Sicily" or "Sicilia" before "her name to this place")
2018 DI ICT round 10 wrote:Some perovskite-type oxides of this element exhibit colossal magnetoresistance. Four atoms of this element are found in a protein that progresses through five S-states in the Kok cycle and uses four light-catalyzed electron transfers to reduce P680. This (*) metal and calcium are found in the oxygen-evolving complex. This first-row transition metal forms a stable +2 ion with a half-filled d subshell. For 10 points—what transition metal adopts the +7 oxidation state in a purple-colored anion?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan »

setht wrote:
An Economic Ignoramus wrote:"Era" was a somewhat suspicious pronoun for "The Fifties". Is there a reason why anything more specific couldn't have been used?
To head off any confusion, the DI set had a sociology tossup on the 1950s (in America), while the DII set had a completely unrelated tossup on the 1950s in Chinese history. The DII tossup says "this decade" from the beginning; the DI tossup says "this time period" for the first two sentences, then the third and last sentence says "this decade."

Speaking for myself, I thought "this decade" coupled with early context clues would too quickly narrow down the answer space: for instance, "the rise of Holiday Inn" is an early clue; I felt that plus "the answer is a decade" would be too clear a signal that the answer is one of maybe four or five things.

-Seth
Does that mean that this tossup has prompts for things like "post-war", "post WWII", and "Cold War" before the word decade is dropped?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Auger recombination »

jonah wrote:
Kasper Kaijanen wrote:I was pretty surprised that the bonus part on "reduced mass" didn't have mu listed as an (at least promptable) answer. There was another case later in the day when Maia said a Greek letter for a different bonus and wasn't prompted. Was there a conscious decision on NAQT's part to not include Greek letters in the answerlines of science questions?
Correctness guideline C.16 wrote:Symbols commonly used for mathematical and physical quantities (e.g. S for entropy) are rarely acceptable and may or may not be promptable. In a limited number of cases, near-universal use (e.g. e for Euler’s number or h for Planck’s constant) may make such symbols acceptable.
Is there a reason this isn't an always promptable/never promptable situation?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by jonah »

Kasper Kaijanen wrote:
jonah wrote:
Kasper Kaijanen wrote:I was pretty surprised that the bonus part on "reduced mass" didn't have mu listed as an (at least promptable) answer. There was another case later in the day when Maia said a Greek letter for a different bonus and wasn't prompted. Was there a conscious decision on NAQT's part to not include Greek letters in the answerlines of science questions?
Correctness guideline C.16 wrote:Symbols commonly used for mathematical and physical quantities (e.g. S for entropy) are rarely acceptable and may or may not be promptable. In a limited number of cases, near-universal use (e.g. e for Euler’s number or h for Planck’s constant) may make such symbols acceptable.
Is there a reason this isn't an always promptable/never promptable situation?
It sometimes varies with clues given — at least in my practice, questions whose text is heavy on notation and abbreviations are more likely to have symbols for the answer acceptable or promptable.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

-The tossup on cervical mucus is confusing - ferning is usually used to determine whether amniotic fluid is present. There's even a rule of thumb for it, pool/dye/fern (though the question is correct, as I discovered later, that the actual ferning happens with a mixture of mucus and amniotic fluid)
-Carbamazepine is used for more than just epilepsy. Furthermore, Stevens-Johnson syndrome can happen no matter what condition you take it for (it generally only happens in Asian people though, because of the HLA thing listed in the leadin)
-Antiretrovirals should accept several other things
-The leadin to the magpies tossup applies to crows/blackbirds, per two Koreans on my team (and one of their parents) who looked it up and found out that the story is about blackbirds in their version
-Apparently both Eva St. Clair and Beth March give away their hair
-Saying quinoline-poisoned catalyst without an "it's not alkynes, but" is kind of mean
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Good Goblin Housekeeping »

Sima Guang Hater wrote: -The leadin to the magpies tossup applies to crows/blackbirds, per two Koreans on my team (and one of their parents) who looked it up and found out that the story is about blackbirds in their version
The korean version of... one for sorrow?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Hobbie Klivian »

Banned Tiny Toon Adventures Episode wrote:
Sima Guang Hater wrote: -The leadin to the magpies tossup applies to crows/blackbirds, per two Koreans on my team (and one of their parents) who looked it up and found out that the story is about blackbirds in their version
The korean version of... one for sorrow?
I don't know if the DI version had the same leadin, but the DII version's leadin was Cowherd and the Weaver girl story; I've always heard the bridge described as a mixture of crows and magpies, although I am not sure whether this is a common variation on the story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilseok). Regardless, I think blackbird/crow should be at least promptable.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by The Stately Rhododendron »

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

ProfessorIanDuncan wrote:
setht wrote:
An Economic Ignoramus wrote:"Era" was a somewhat suspicious pronoun for "The Fifties". Is there a reason why anything more specific couldn't have been used?
To head off any confusion, the DI set had a sociology tossup on the 1950s (in America), while the DII set had a completely unrelated tossup on the 1950s in Chinese history. The DII tossup says "this decade" from the beginning; the DI tossup says "this time period" for the first two sentences, then the third and last sentence says "this decade."

Speaking for myself, I thought "this decade" coupled with early context clues would too quickly narrow down the answer space: for instance, "the rise of Holiday Inn" is an early clue; I felt that plus "the answer is a decade" would be too clear a signal that the answer is one of maybe four or five things.

-Seth
Does that mean that this tossup has prompts for things like "post-war", "post WWII", and "Cold War" before the word decade is dropped?
The tossup did have prompts for post-war/post-WWII, but not Cold War. I've added a prompt on "Cold War."

-Seth
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Mnemosyne »

Just an observation: There was a packet where there were effectively 3 math (or stats) tossups in my room. Frequentist, sets (I buzzed on the phrase "naive set theory", which I know from math exposure, not philosophy) and then a physics tossup on Cauchy that switched to "as a mathematician" and someone buzzed.

Basically three tossups that were converted with math knowledge. Probably not ideal for others, but I'm not complaining.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Mnemosyne wrote:Just an observation: There was a packet where there were effectively 3 math (or stats) tossups in my room. Frequentist, sets (I buzzed on the phrase "naive set theory", which I know from math exposure, not philosophy) and then a physics tossup on Cauchy that switched to "as a mathematician" and someone buzzed.

Basically three tossups that were converted with math knowledge. Probably not ideal for others, but I'm not complaining.
Yeah, that's a sub-optimal clumping that we would have ideally avoided.

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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Chromica »

Could I also see the tossup on the No-Hair Theorem?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2018 DI ICT round 13 wrote:Norman Gurlebeck extended this result by showing that high-order Geroch multipole moments far from a static, axisymmetric object with an accretion disk are due entirely to the disk. The uniqueness of the Kerr metric is one form of this theorem, which naively implies that as a particle crosses an event (*) horizon, information is lost on all but three properties. For 10 points—what theorem states that charge, spin, and mass fully characterize black holes, which are thus sometimes said to be "bald"?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by kearnm7 »

First, to all the editors, writers, and volunteers - thanks for making this edition of ICT excellent. As a first time attendee, I was struck by the professionalism of the entire event, as well as the overall quality of the set. That said, I have a few comments on specific questions, especially within the mythology distribution. To that end, I've selected three question—one which I quite like, one which I think needs a touch of revision, and one which I believe to have a few more fundamental issues—to examine and discuss.

To start with the question I really like:
One of these two characters tells the other that even Niobe remembered to eat, and claims that Zeus's hall has two jars of blessings and curses. Hermes takes the guides of Polyctor's son to guide one of these two men, who tells the other to "remember your own father." These two men arrange a twelve-day truce after the return of a (*) body that had been dragged behind a chariot. For 10 points—name these two Homeric characters, a Greek hero and the Trojan king whose son he killed.
ANSWER: Priam and Achilles
This is an excellent use of a "two answer" tossup, which are admittedly rare, but often vacuous. Book 24 of the Iliad is, in a sense, about the relationship between these two men, and how they come to understand each other's points of view; furthermore, it's perhaps the most important single scene in the Iliad, being depicted heavily in artwork, but is generally under-served in Quizbowl. The question bears a remarkably accessible answer line (what mythologian, or Quizbowl player generally, has not heard of Achilles and Priam?), but also rewards sourced-based knowledge, especially Achilles' retelling of the story of Niobe, which proves crucial to the resolution of the scene. Overall, an excellent and accessible question, and one worthy of a spot in finals.

Now to the question I think needs a touch of revision:
A revulsion to this substance was granted by the mythical fountain of Clitor. Homer's Odyssey makes the oldest-known reference to the "Pramnian" form of this substance, which likely came from Lesbos. An Athenian who was stoned to death for making this substance was turned into the constellation (*) Bootes. Before introducing himself as "Nobody," Odysseus gives the Cyclops Polyphemus this gift three times. Silenus the satyr made—for 10 points—what liquid sacred to maenads and Dionysus?
ANSWER: Wine
My primary concern about this question is its transparency. I do not think it a fundamentally bad question, but a Homeric substance from a particular region would almost certainly be wine. Furthermore, I cannot think of another mythological substance which is truly "made," as the third clue refers to (milk and honey aren't made, per se; this is clearly not a heavenly substance, ruling out ambrosia and nectar; water seems to be ruled out by other context clues). As such, there's a somewhat substantial opportunity to "fraud" this question before power, which I think unfortunate. I expect there are ways to resolve this transparency, and I encourage others to chime in.

And finally, the question which I believe to have a few more fundamental issues:
This was the form of Ashkelon's goddess Atargatis, whom the Greeks called Derketo and credited as Semiramis's mother. After receiving a bottle from the fountain of youth, Thessalonike became one of these creatures who asked travelers if her brother Alexander the Great was alive. The fairy (*) Melusine was one of these creatures, who appear in medieval bestiaries with a mirror and a comb, symbols of vanity. Later sources conflate nereids or Sirens with—for 10 points—what fish-tailed humanoids?
ANSWER: Mermaids
My opposition to the question perhaps derives from the fact that I negged it with "fish," which I personally think should be prompt-able, since I was still parsing through the first line when Thessalonike (the cut-off to accept "fish" came along). I do, however, think there are a few other issues with the question more generally.

1. I think the question suffers from a lack of middle clues, and even late clues, since it's pretty difficult to buzz anywhere before "fish-tailed humanoids" if you don't know the somewhat obscure figures of Thessalonike and Melusine are. For instance, it's pretty difficult to buzz on "a creature conflated by later sources with Nereids or Sirens" and manage to pull out mermaids.
2. I think the best, and perhaps only way, to get an early buzz on this tossup is to specifically read the Wikipedia page on "Mermaids." When compared to some of the excellent, source-based mythology tossups from elsewhere in the tournament, this tossup seems to reward less "real knowledge" than I might like.
3. There are several ways to inadvertently neg this question, which I think to be a slight issue. Looking beyond my "fish" buzz (Atargatis became a fish, and then, eventually, a mermaid), the potential conflation with nereids and Sirens creates some gray areas which are hard to resolve.

My knowledge of non-classical mythology is limited, at best, so I've avoided commenting on those questions, but I believe some to have expressed reservations about certain questions, and I invite them to contribute expertise in such myth systems to this discussion. Again, these are my own opinions, so I welcome feedback and criticism alike.
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by kitakule »

Can I see the tossup on Robert Louis Stevenson?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2018 DI ICT round 14 wrote:In one story by this author, a sorcerer makes a fortune by turning seashells from an island inhabited by cannibals into money. This author of "The Isle of Voices" wrote about a doctor named Wolfe Macfarlane who kills a man named Mr. Gray and dissects his corpse in "The (*) Body Snatcher." A collection of New Arabian Nights was written by—for 10 points—what 19th-century author, who wrote about a lawyer named Gabriel John Utterson in his novella The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by AGoodMan »

Can I see questions on the following?

*Burlingame
*John II of France
*Philippians
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

AGoodMan wrote:Can I see questions on the following?

*Burlingame
*John II of France
*Philippians
Sure thing.
2018 DI ICT round 8 wrote:After the assault of Charles Sumner, this man called Preston Brooks "the vilest sort of coward" and challenged him to a duel. This non-Cabinet member negotiated an agreement that granted both signers most favored nation status, replacing William Reed's "unequal treaty." That agreement he drafted with William (*) Seward had its clause allowing free immigration overriden by a bill advocated by Denis Kearney, the Chinese Exclusion Act. For 10 points—what U.S. ambassador to China names an 1868 treaty?

answer: Anson Burlingame (accept Burlingame-Seward Treaty)
2018 DI ICT round 5 wrote:This ruler created a society of knights who were prohibited from retreating more than four steps, the Order of the Star. This man's daughter married Charles the Bad of Navarre to secure an alliance. The French franc was created to pay this man's (*) ransom, which was set at 3 million écus by the Treaty of Brétigny. Philip VI was succeeded by—for 10 points—what French king during the Hundred Years' War, who was captured by the English at the Battle of Poitiers and was nicknamed "the Good"?

answer: John II of France (or Jean II de France; accept John the Good or Jean le Bon before "Good" and prompt afterwards; prompt on partial answer)
2018 DI ICT round 6 wrote:A passage in this text describing how Jesus "emptied himself" is the basis for the doctrine of kenosis. This text warns believers to "beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision," and it mentions a dispute between women named Euodia and Syntyche. This text's addressees are told to "work out your (*) salvation with fear and trembling." It discusses how the envoy Epaphroditus fell sick while the author was imprisoned. For 10 points—name this Pauline epistle to a church in Macedon.

answer: Philippians (or Epistle (of Paul) to the Philippians or Epistle of Paul and Timothy to the Philippians)
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by Charbroil »

setht wrote:
2018 DI ICT round 5 wrote:This ruler created a society of knights who were prohibited from retreating more than four steps, the Order of the Star. This man's daughter married Charles the Bad of Navarre to secure an alliance. The French franc was created to pay this man's (*) ransom, which was set at 3 million écus by the Treaty of Brétigny. Philip VI was succeeded by—for 10 points—what French king during the Hundred Years' War, who was captured by the English at the Battle of Poitiers and was nicknamed "the Good"?

answer: John II of France (or Jean II de France; accept John the Good or Jean le Bon before "Good" and prompt afterwards; prompt on partial answer)
Just out of curiosity, is there a non-Wikipedia source for the "four steps" thing? Barbara Tuchmann's A Distant Mirror says:
Companions of the Star were required, to swear they would never flee in battle more than four arpems (about 600 yards) by their own estimate...
Anyway, I greatly enjoyed this set; it was probably my favorite ICT set ever. Thanks to all of the writers and editors for their hard work!
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Re: 2018 Division I ICT: specific question discussion

Post by a bird »

This is a relatively minor point, but there were several times when issues with incomplete answer lines (and in one case an inconsistent question) could have decided our matches. The three biggest issues were:
  • channelrhodopsin not being acceptable for the rhodopsin (One of the clues in the bonus referred to channelrhodopsin the other did not, so the question was ruled not to have a correct answer.)
  • chanting not being prompted oral tradition (Given the vagueness of some of the clues, I'm not sure why this couldn't have been accepted outright.)
  • Mother Ann not being accepted for (Mother) Ann Lee.

I know the editors put a lot of effort into the set, and I'm grateful for all their work this year. I just hope that future iterations of ICT have a bit more attention paid to this sort of thing. In two cases, we ended up needing to convert replacement questions after a protest resolution. It would have been pretty painful to lose a match after failing to convert a replacement question.

Another minor point: twice we ended up in tied games with one or more protests lodged. The first time this happened, we played a tiebreaker and the winning team's protests were considered moot (they would no longer affect the result of the game). The second time we waited for the protest to be resolved (instead of playing a hypothetical tiebreaker) and the resolution of the protest broke the tie. Why wasn't the same procedure followed in both cases?
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