The end of the match

Elaborate on the merits of specific tournaments or have general theoretical discussion here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

The end of the match

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:52 pm

Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by heterodyne » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:59 pm

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
If you're attempting to mount a parody of recent attempts at "professionalization," you've done a wonderful job.
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
he/him/his or they/them/their

User avatar
Cherrybell Miramonte
Lulu
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:43 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The end of the match

Post by Cherrybell Miramonte » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:03 am

Considering the far more substantive concerns with the game that were laid out in this thread, this seems very much not a hill worth dying on.
Sam Rombro
Arizona '20
Maryland '18
Writer, NAQT (inactive)

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:03 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
This is the point at which you may need to chill.
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
A Very Long Math Tossup
Rikku
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:02 pm
Location: Boulder, CO
Contact:

Re: The end of the match

Post by A Very Long Math Tossup » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:05 am

OK, let's get this over with: does anyone have any thoughts on gender and/or sucrose?
Matt Mitchell
Colorado '20
Treasure Valley '16
QBNotify creator, Colorado Quiz Bowl founder, PACE member

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: The end of the match

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:12 am

I am proudly unapologetic about being willing to air my own fixations to the world and believe in my heart that a community of well educated adults can execute this basic interaction in a more civilized fashion.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: The end of the match

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:23 am

I would bet good money I don't have that this is the first time most readers of this thread have actually thought anything about this, and when they go to their next tournament they will realize how aesthetically displeasing the status quo is, and will be presented with the choice to dig in their heels or strive for something better. #staywoke
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
ryanrosenberg
Auron
Posts: 1326
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The end of the match

Post by ryanrosenberg » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:26 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
"This Whole Thing Reeks of Quizbowl," i holler as i overturn my team's buzzer desk and turn the 4th of July into the 4th of Shit
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16 | Ardsley '12
PACE | ACF

User avatar
Cheynem
Sin
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Re: The end of the match

Post by Cheynem » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:27 am

I think it's good to shake hands and that teams should try to execute that maneuver in a less fumblesome way (I'm very bad at that).

I will say that there are a lot of rooms in which you play quizbowl in which you can't form a line. Like some of those ICT rooms where the people are facing each other and the only way to shake hands is to just stand up where you are and reach across the table. Or those icky classrooms where you aren't even facing the people you're playing. Sometimes like the buzzer and wires are in the way, too. I don't think we really need to codify how we shake hands; I mean at least for me I've never thought that "wow, shaking hands was so aesthetically displeasing that we need to make quizbowl more like a junior sports league."
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota

"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:31 am

Geriatric trauma wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
"This Whole Thing Reeks of Quizbowl," i holler as i overturn my team's buzzer desk and turn the 4th of July into the 4th of Shit
having hs qb intellectuals explain to me how exactly hand shakers fucked up , and why they deserve to die
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
That DCC guy
Lulu
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:30 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by That DCC guy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:39 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.

I personally disagree and believe that the current system is better because it’s more personal. When you do the line method that u described all the meaning is taken out of the original intention of good sportsmanship. And I couldn’t tell u how many times I’ve had in my lifetime where people in those lines have told me to “fuck off” (any sport applies). So I think the current system although chaotic is better at its heart
Last edited by That DCC guy on Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Austin Foos
Detroit Catholic Central 2015
Michigan State University 2016
University of Michigan 2019
2015 Pace National Champion
2014-2015 Player of the Year

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:41 am

AKKOLADE wrote:
Geriatric trauma wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
"This Whole Thing Reeks of Quizbowl," i holler as i overturn my team's buzzer desk and turn the 4th of July into the 4th of Shit
having hs qb intellectuals explain to me how exactly hand shakers fucked up , and why they deserve to die
my friend the only crypto currency you wanna get your hands on is this: quiz bowl hand shakes. There is a lot of quiz bowl hands and they all gotta shake
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
jonpin
Forums Staff: Moderator
Posts: 2031
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:45 pm
Location: BCA NJ / WUSTL MO / Hackensack NJ

Re: The end of the match

Post by jonpin » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:06 am

Cherrybell Miramonte wrote:Considering the far more substantive concerns with the game that were laid out in this thread, this seems very much not a hill worth dying on.
Who else expected that link to go to the haircut thread?
Jon Pinyan
Coach, Bergen County Academies (NJ); former player for BCA (2000-03) and WUSTL (2003-07)
HSQB forum mod, PACE member
Stat director for: NSC '13-'15, '17; ACF '14, '17, '19; NHBB '13-'15; NASAT '11

"A [...] wizard who controls the weather" - Jerry Vinokurov

User avatar
The Ununtiable Twine
Yuna
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Lafayette, LA

Re: The end of the match

Post by The Ununtiable Twine » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:31 am

A Very Long Math Tossup wrote:OK, let's get this over with: does anyone have any thoughts on gender and/or sucrose?
as a male who woke up with nappy hair and also had a dr pepper, pibb xtra, and a vanilla coke today, it is difficult for me to concur with the opinions of the OP
Jake Sundberg
Louisiana '04-'10, '14-'16, '18-'xx
Alabama '10-14
President, University of Louisiana at Lafayette Club for Academic Competition

User avatar
Pablo Picasso 2
Lulu
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 3:43 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by Pablo Picasso 2 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:05 am

AKKOLADE wrote:
AKKOLADE wrote:
Geriatric trauma wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
"This Whole Thing Reeks of Quizbowl," i holler as i overturn my team's buzzer desk and turn the 4th of July into the 4th of Shit
having hs qb intellectuals explain to me how exactly hand shakers fucked up , and why they deserve to die
my friend the only crypto currency you wanna get your hands on is this: quiz bowl hand shakes. There is a lot of quiz bowl hands and they all gotta shake
hand shaking may annoy a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people pretend to be sportsmanlike, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,
Jeremy "JJ" Tsai
Rutgers 2018
President

User avatar
settlej
Lulu
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:05 pm

Re: The end of the match

Post by settlej » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:45 am

Pablo Picasso 2 wrote:
AKKOLADE wrote:
AKKOLADE wrote:
Geriatric trauma wrote:
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
"This Whole Thing Reeks of Quizbowl," i holler as i overturn my team's buzzer desk and turn the 4th of July into the 4th of Shit
having hs qb intellectuals explain to me how exactly hand shakers fucked up , and why they deserve to die
my friend the only crypto currency you wanna get your hands on is this: quiz bowl hand shakes. There is a lot of quiz bowl hands and they all gotta shake
hand shaking may annoy a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people pretend to be sportsmanlike, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,
Jordan Brownstein bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad handshakes. you imbecile. you :capybara:ing moron"
Jonathen Settle (he/him/his)
UF B.S. Physics '17
UF M.S. Comp Sci '20

User avatar
Fuddle Duddle
Memerator
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:31 pm
Location: East Lansing, MI or Naperville, IL

Re: The end of the match

Post by Fuddle Duddle » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:04 am

Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) wrote:Right now, when teams shake hands at the end of quizbowl games, it is mostly a shitshow where people are throwing their hands into a massive disorganized pile-on of players. This reeks of quizbowl. It would be better if teams stayed in the order they were sitting, faced each other, stood in lines, and walked towards each other. Anybody who played childhood soccer and remembers how they make you high five while say "good game" can relate.
https://twitter.com/dril/status/922321981?lang=en
Jakob Myers
MSU '21, Naperville North (IL) '17
"No one has ever organized a greater effort to get people interested in pretending to play quiz bowl"
-Ankit Aggarwal

User avatar
the return of AHAN
Auron
Posts: 1932
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: The end of the match

Post by the return of AHAN » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:32 am

That DCC guy wrote:
SNIP And I couldn’t tell u how many times I’ve had in my lifetime people in those lines tell me to “fuck off” (any sport applies). So I think the current system although chaotic is better at its heart
Good grief, where did you grow up? (Sees Austin is from the Detroit area) All right, story checks out.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adelaide Glaciarium
Lulu
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:20 pm

Re: The end of the match

Post by Adelaide Glaciarium » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:56 am

So that's three Jacky Li level threads in a period of just over 2 months by Charlie. Is it time we talked about NYC quizbowl's poor internet presence?
Adam Swift
RIT, 2015

marianna
Rikku
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:14 pm
Location: Stanford, CA

Re: The end of the match

Post by marianna » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:39 am

I too don't think teams need to form lines to approach each other to shake hands.

This is pretty minor, but I do think that players should shake hands with other players, make eye contact, and say "good game" or something of that sort with sincerity. Many times after a match, I've encountered players who carry on a conversation with someone else, not even looking at you or saying "good game", as they shake your hand. It just seems like they're going through the motions without even acknowledging you. Again, this is a very minor detail, compared to more problematic aspects of the game and community that we should focus our attention on, but I think we should be mindful of sincerely expressing respect for other players.
Marianna Zhang
she/her/hers
Hunter '14 | Chicago '18 | Stanford '23
PACE

User avatar
The Stately Rhododendron
Rikku
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:18 pm
Location: Heart's in the woods

Re: The end of the match

Post by The Stately Rhododendron » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:42 pm

Is this how Dees thinks quizbowl games end?
IKD
Yale 18
Oakland Mills 14
"I am the NAQT beast I worship."

User avatar
ProfessorIanDuncan
Wakka
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: The end of the match

Post by ProfessorIanDuncan » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:33 pm

the return of AHAN wrote:
That DCC guy wrote:
SNIP And I couldn’t tell u how many times I’ve had in my lifetime people in those lines tell me to “fuck off” (any sport applies). So I think the current system although chaotic is better at its heart
Good grief, where did you grow up? (Sees Austin is from the Detroit area) All right, story checks out.
I don't know about countless times, but I've heard this happen a small but significant number of times. I grew up in the NYC metro area, so this is not just a Detroit thing. But even aside from that, those lines always felt super impersonal. No one ever ended up shaking hands, just kind of slapping each others palms and saying good game in the most monotonous way possible.

Also I'm pretty sure the reason teams lined up this way was because the teams were reasonably large and the chaotic mess that would ensue wouldn't be in any way manageable. However, two teams of four (maybe five or six) shaking hands with everyone on the opposing team is manageable without confusing everyone.

I also think it's hard to implement a system of shaking hands/showing sportsmanship, because if an individual is not inclined to be enthusiastic or genuine about it then they'll find a way to be half-hearted.
Alec Vulfson
Irvington High School '13

alexdz
Rikku
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: The end of the match

Post by alexdz » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:03 pm

Formalizing this seems like the least of our worries. If someone wanted to try and organize something a bit neater for, say, their state finals matches or a national finals, then I could see where it would be reasonable to make this congratulatory ritual a bit more neat. But for any individual match during the season? I think not.
Alex Dzurick
====
Owner/Editor, SAGES Quizbowl Questions
Coach, Harcum College (PA)
====
Former midwesterner (South Callaway - Mizzou - UIUC) coping with life on the east coast.

User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: The end of the match

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:23 pm

Functioning on my phone has led to comedy, get rid of this post please.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: The end of the match

Post by AKKOLADE » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:48 pm

Please keep this post forever.
Fred Morlan
PACE President, 2018-19
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, co-owner
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
hsqbrank manager, NAQT writer (former subject editor), former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator, 2012 NASAT TD

User avatar
Rufous-capped Thornbill
Tidus
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: The end of the match

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:49 pm

Quizbowl's self hatred has really gone to some interesting places this year.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
Member, PACE

User avatar
Benin Rebirth Party
Yuna
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Farhaven, Ontario

Re: The end of the match

Post by Benin Rebirth Party » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:57 pm

jonpin wrote:
Cherrybell Miramonte wrote:Considering the far more substantive concerns with the game that were laid out in this thread, this seems very much not a hill worth dying on.
Who else expected that link to go to the haircut thread?
I was expecting the Jordan Palmer retirement post TBH
Joe Su
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 20--

FINALIST -- 2017 ILQBM MEME OF THE YEAR

Post Reply