2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
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2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
This is your discussion thread for specific questions from the 2020 Division II SCT.
Jeff Hoppes
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"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Two errors I remember from reading:
A bonus on Henry II of England implied that he only had 3 sons. He had 5 sons with Eleanor, although not all lived until adulthood.
The tossup on Adventure implied it had the first Easter Egg in a videogame. This used to be the assumption but in recent years there have been several earlier examples found. Although I think it is correct to say that the term "easter egg" was first coined for Adventure.
A bonus on Henry II of England implied that he only had 3 sons. He had 5 sons with Eleanor, although not all lived until adulthood.
The tossup on Adventure implied it had the first Easter Egg in a videogame. This used to be the assumption but in recent years there have been several earlier examples found. Although I think it is correct to say that the term "easter egg" was first coined for Adventure.
Mike Bentley
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
Adviser, Quizbowl Team at University of Washington
University of Maryland, Class of 2008
Treasurer, Partnership for Academic Competition Excellence
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
The Henry II issue was my fault; I have just fixed this for future use.
I referred the video game question to editors who know about that field of knowledge.
I referred the video game question to editors who know about that field of knowledge.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
I think the lead-ins on the Saints and Kansas City questions were just too easy. Most people with any knowledge of recent Super Bowls knew what the Saints did in 2012, and also a lot of people remember that game beyond those interested in the NFL. For the Kansas City question, Jackie Robinson played for the Monarchs and also using the Monarchs-->Royals logic it kind of gave the question away before power mark.
Also, I don't think referencing Stadium Names that are not known by non-fans (see: the Braves toss-up) gives a disproportionate advantage to people who are fans/know the team. Like mentioning Fenway Park at the end of a question is ok but having a non-well-known stadium before power mark will be a waste of a clue for most players.
Also, I don't think referencing Stadium Names that are not known by non-fans (see: the Braves toss-up) gives a disproportionate advantage to people who are fans/know the team. Like mentioning Fenway Park at the end of a question is ok but having a non-well-known stadium before power mark will be a waste of a clue for most players.
Leland Held
President of JHU Quiz Bowl
Johns Hopkins '22
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
I'm not defending the clue per se, but I think the point of the stadium name clue in the Braves tossup is that the stadium had just changed its name (to a name that got roundly roasted on Twitter, to boot). I'm not a fan of the Braves, but I found that controversy amusing enough to remember.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
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Formerly U of Minnesota
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
This repeat was pretty awful:
"Presley" wasn't an acceptable answer to the bonus part on Elvis in Packet 4. Whyyyyyyyyyy?
The tossup on "vertical bar/vertical line" in Packet 11 should have prompted on just "bar" or "line".
The team in my room was really angry that the bonus part on "Natty Bumppo" in Packet 7 didn't accept "Hawkeye". I don't know anything about this but apparently that's what he's primarily referred to in at least one book?
Not accepting "Abraham" for "Ibrahim" all the way through the question is incredibly ungenerous, even though it's technically within the rules -- especially because the players can't see the lack of commas in "this figure in Islamic tradition", so they might interpret that as "this figure, in Islamic tradition, places..." and assume not all the clues are exclusively Islamic.
The aforementioned tossup on the Conservative Party not accepting "Tories" is a pretty major oversight.
Other miscellaneous stuff:
I don't think the up arrow is actually relevant enough to be a reasonable middle part at DII level. It also falls into the general class of, like, "math trivia", e.g. things that aren't actually relevant to math but which non-math people know about math since they're "wacky!".
The "boreholes" tossup was pretty terrible, not gonna lie. I'm usually a big fan of NAQT's tossups on things that would be impossible to toss up on longer questions, but this kinda fell flat.
I really enjoyed the myth tossup on "mountains" that clued things like the European kings who are sleeping under mountains to reawake in their country's time of greatest need.
The bonus part on "yellow" from "what color badge did [various middle ages people] force Jews to wear" is probably going to play way easier than intended, because there is uh a much more famous yellow badge for Jews
Packet 9, Bonus 17, Part A wrote:A. Give this two-word term. The St. Crispin's Day speech in Henry V is addressed to a group described both by this
term and as a “band of brothers.”
answer: happy few (accept we happy few or We few, we happy few)
This feng shui was pretty awful:Packet 12, Bonus 19 wrote:19. This play concludes a tetralogy beginning with Richard II. For 10 points each—
A. Name this Shakespeare history play that includes the St. Crispin's Day Speech.
answer: Henry V [“the fifth”] (or The Life of Henry the Fifth or The Cronicle History of Henry the fift)
B. Henry gives the St. Crispin's Day Speech the night before this battle of the Hundred Years' War.
answer: Battle of Agincourt [ah-zhin-KOOR]
C. In the speech, Henry calls his soldiers “we few, we happy few” before referring to them by this three-word
phrase which inspired the title of an HBO miniseries.
answer: (we) band of brothers
Packet 10, Tossup 5 wrote:answer: Liberal Democrats (or Lib Dems)
Miscellaneous answerline sparseness:ALSO Packet 10, Tossup 13 wrote:answer: Conservative (and Unionist) Party
"Presley" wasn't an acceptable answer to the bonus part on Elvis in Packet 4. Whyyyyyyyyyy?
The tossup on "vertical bar/vertical line" in Packet 11 should have prompted on just "bar" or "line".
The team in my room was really angry that the bonus part on "Natty Bumppo" in Packet 7 didn't accept "Hawkeye". I don't know anything about this but apparently that's what he's primarily referred to in at least one book?
Not accepting "Abraham" for "Ibrahim" all the way through the question is incredibly ungenerous, even though it's technically within the rules -- especially because the players can't see the lack of commas in "this figure in Islamic tradition", so they might interpret that as "this figure, in Islamic tradition, places..." and assume not all the clues are exclusively Islamic.
The aforementioned tossup on the Conservative Party not accepting "Tories" is a pretty major oversight.
Other miscellaneous stuff:
I don't think the up arrow is actually relevant enough to be a reasonable middle part at DII level. It also falls into the general class of, like, "math trivia", e.g. things that aren't actually relevant to math but which non-math people know about math since they're "wacky!".
The "boreholes" tossup was pretty terrible, not gonna lie. I'm usually a big fan of NAQT's tossups on things that would be impossible to toss up on longer questions, but this kinda fell flat.
I really enjoyed the myth tossup on "mountains" that clued things like the European kings who are sleeping under mountains to reawake in their country's time of greatest need.
The bonus part on "yellow" from "what color badge did [various middle ages people] force Jews to wear" is probably going to play way easier than intended, because there is uh a much more famous yellow badge for Jews
Conor Thompson (he/it)
Bangor High School '16
University of Michigan '20
Iowa State University '25
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Thanks for reporting these, Conor- we'll get them fixed up for future uses of the set.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
This was not ideal to see when reading an advantaged final.Pack 13, Bonus 19 wrote:C. A story by Mansfield shares its title with this man's Restoration comedy Marriage à la mode. This first English Poet Laureate wrote the satirical Mac Flecknoe and Absalom and Achitophel.
answer: life (accept isn't life)
Dennis Beeby
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
That was indeed a bad mistake and we have fixed the bonus for future use.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
- Fado Alexandrino
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Asking for hydrogen as "this substance" was pretty confusing.
Joe Su, OCT
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 2019, Queen's 2020
Lisgar 2012, McGill 2015, McGill 2019, Queen's 2020
Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
A couple comments from talking to a scientist friend who also played the set (but is not active on the forums):
-- he says "physiologic" should be acceptable for the bonus part on isotonic saline, since that's apparently what it's called in medical contexts?
-- "tarnishing" should probably be antiprompted on the corrosion TU in the same way rusting was (btw, I really appreciated the specific directed prompt there and am glad NAQT has started doing these more frequently!)
-- he says "physiologic" should be acceptable for the bonus part on isotonic saline, since that's apparently what it's called in medical contexts?
-- "tarnishing" should probably be antiprompted on the corrosion TU in the same way rusting was (btw, I really appreciated the specific directed prompt there and am glad NAQT has started doing these more frequently!)
Conor Thompson (he/it)
Bangor High School '16
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
is hydrogen... not a substance?Benin Rebirth Party wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:22 pm Asking for hydrogen as "this substance" was pretty confusing.
Andrew Wang
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
I successfully protested an answer of "cleavage" for the question on bonds breaking, just wanted to post here that that should have been officially in the answerline in case it hasn't already been added.
Anson Berns
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Better to just say "this element". Or if you really wanna obscure the answerline, say "this particle" or something like that.
Also, iirc, the very first line of the machine learning tossup said "the goal of this field is to build linear classifiers" or something like that, which is a bit, uhhh....
Also, iirc, the very first line of the machine learning tossup said "the goal of this field is to build linear classifiers" or something like that, which is a bit, uhhh....
Lalit Maharjan
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
"this particle" would be way more confusing than "this substance"
if hydrogen gas can't reasonably be referred to as a "substance" I literally have no idea what can
if hydrogen gas can't reasonably be referred to as a "substance" I literally have no idea what can
Conor Thompson (he/it)
Bangor High School '16
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
The 21 cm line is produced by (neutral) atomic hydrogen, which is not a single particle. This element is probably a better pronoun than this substance if the question continues to talk about atomic hydrogen after the 21 cm line, but I think both are fine
Geoffrey Chen
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Does "this substance" sufficiently rule out buzzes of "ISM" or "IGM" on the 21-cm line clue? I wasn't sure what to say when I heard it. I don't know enough about the subject (obviously) to say whether or not those answers were ruled out by earlier clues, though.
Eleanor
they/she
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Here's the DII version of the hydrogen tossup.
I'm not sure it ever would have occurred to me (beforehand) that people hearing that first sentence (with "this substance") might get confused and think the answer could be the IGM or ISM or whatever. I don't know if people find this convincing, but to me, an answer of "IGM/ISM" off of the first sentence would mean we're saying that "the IGM (or ISM) undergoes a spin-flip transition," which doesn't make any sense. I guess I can see how people might hear that lead-in and think "well, maybe they really mean 'one specific component of this substance undergoes a spin-flip transition.'" (Also, van de Hulst presumably had no real notion of "the IGM" when he made his prediction.) I am sorry for causing confusion here, especially since upon reflection I think I really did not need to avoid saying "element" for the DII version.
I've gone ahead and changed to "this element" for future uses of the set.2020 DII SCT wrote:Hendrik van de Hulst predicted that this substance can undergo a spin-flip transition to produce a radio wave feature known as the 21-centimeter line. The spectral classes of stars were originally arranged alphabetically based on the observed strength of (*) spectral lines in this element's Balmer ["BALL"-mur] series. The CNO ["C-N-O"] cycle and the proton-proton chain fuse—for 10 points—what element into helium?
answer: hydrogen (or H; do not accept or prompt on "H2" or "molecular hydrogen")
I'm not sure it ever would have occurred to me (beforehand) that people hearing that first sentence (with "this substance") might get confused and think the answer could be the IGM or ISM or whatever. I don't know if people find this convincing, but to me, an answer of "IGM/ISM" off of the first sentence would mean we're saying that "the IGM (or ISM) undergoes a spin-flip transition," which doesn't make any sense. I guess I can see how people might hear that lead-in and think "well, maybe they really mean 'one specific component of this substance undergoes a spin-flip transition.'" (Also, van de Hulst presumably had no real notion of "the IGM" when he made his prediction.) I am sorry for causing confusion here, especially since upon reflection I think I really did not need to avoid saying "element" for the DII version.
Seth Teitler
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
(For reference I played the DI version of this tossup, but was just adding to discussion here)setht wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:51 pm Here's the DII version of the hydrogen tossup.
I've gone ahead and changed to "this element" for future uses of the set.2020 DII SCT wrote:Hendrik van de Hulst predicted that this substance can undergo a spin-flip transition to produce a radio wave feature known as the 21-centimeter line. The spectral classes of stars were originally arranged alphabetically based on the observed strength of (*) spectral lines in this element's Balmer ["BALL"-mur] series. The CNO ["C-N-O"] cycle and the proton-proton chain fuse—for 10 points—what element into helium?
answer: hydrogen (or H; do not accept or prompt on "H2" or "molecular hydrogen")
I'm not sure it ever would have occurred to me (beforehand) that people hearing that first sentence (with "this substance") might get confused and think the answer could be the IGM or ISM or whatever. I don't know if people find this convincing, but to me, an answer of "IGM/ISM" off of the first sentence would mean we're saying that "the IGM (or ISM) undergoes a spin-flip transition," which doesn't make any sense. I guess I can see how people might hear that lead-in and think "well, maybe they really mean 'one specific component of this substance undergoes a spin-flip transition.'" (Also, van de Hulst presumably had no real notion of "the IGM" when he made his prediction.) I am sorry for causing confusion here, especially since upon reflection I think I really did not need to avoid saying "element" for the DII version.
Ah, I just did not process "spin-flip transition" when hearing the question. I agree with what you've said here.
Eleanor
they/she
they/she
Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
I don't have it in front of me, but I believe the phrasing on the legalism bonus suggests Zhuge Liang implemented it during the Qin Dynasty. If it is worded that way, that's incorrect because while he was a legalist, he was born long after the fall of the Qin.
The Division I version of this bonus was also flawed in that part 1 mentioned communal and part 3 asked for communalism.
The Division I version of this bonus was also flawed in that part 1 mentioned communal and part 3 asked for communalism.
Tyler Vaughan
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Re: 2020 Division II SCT: specific question discussion
Both versions of the legalism question have been corrected.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred