2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Here Comes Rusev Day »

The BA2 variant is no longer the majority of cases in the world or US, but that's beside the point and also ultimately not what's being discussed here. I'm with Mike, and I think the recommended policy is already fine. I guess this is one of those things where we can see that surgical and cloth masks ultimately will do very little as a general mandate compared to KN95 respirators and above for those who have been fitted and wear them consistently, which, because of need to be fit tested and do work substantially at an individual level to protect the user and others around them, that is what people should wear if the risk to them is that high.
Last edited by Here Comes Rusev Day on Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Cheynem »

To be clear, I wasn't saying the recommended policy was "fine," I was saying that fundamentally you're requiring masks or not, "recommended" is basically "not."
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Here Comes Rusev Day »

Cheynem wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:47 pm To be clear, I wasn't saying the recommended policy was "fine," I was saying that fundamentally you're requiring masks or not, "recommended" is basically "not."
That's fair enough, I do agree.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1.82 »

I support a mask policy that allows those who wish to continue wearing a mask to do so without compelling others.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by touchpack »

DumbJaques wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:34 pm (Also it seems like, pretty unacceptable to change the masking policy days before the event, after it had been in place for months, when people made travel arrangements based on said policy, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but I can't see anywhere that notes the announced policy would be subject to change - it seems quite emphatic - and 4 days seems unreasonably late to make such a change even if it did).
I very strongly agree with this post. Given how big the field is, it's fairly likely that a non-zero number of people are not comfortable with the update to the policy, and "if you don't feel comfortable, don't come" is a pretty bad argument when these people have already bought plane tickets, lodging, etc. It's far too late to change things now, so please revert to your previous policies that were communicated months in advance of the tournament.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Sam »

touchpack wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:32 pm
DumbJaques wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:34 pm (Also it seems like, pretty unacceptable to change the masking policy days before the event, after it had been in place for months, when people made travel arrangements based on said policy, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but I can't see anywhere that notes the announced policy would be subject to change - it seems quite emphatic - and 4 days seems unreasonably late to make such a change even if it did).
I very strongly agree with this post. Given how big the field is, it's fairly likely that a non-zero number of people are not comfortable with the update to the policy, and "if you don't feel comfortable, don't come" is a pretty bad argument when these people have already bought plane tickets, lodging, etc. It's far too late to change things now, so please revert to your previous policies that were communicated months in advance of the tournament.
I'm also pretty sympathetic with this point. On one hand, having a mask policy is either effective or it's not. I think Zach is correct that if you're uncomfortable with no one wearing a mask, you shouldn't be that much more comfortable with everyone potentially not wearing anything more than a cloth mask (unless they're eating or drinking or announcing, when they're wearing nothing). On the other hand, it's frustrating to switch over four days before the event citing the caseload in Evanston as the reason. The CDC community level for Cook County is currently "high" (I guess it could always change Thursday) and the cases in Evanston itself are 25-26, versus 29-30 when the policy was first announced. Nationwide cases aren't lower, they're higher. If masking made sense June 18, I don't know why it wouldn't now. If masking didn't make sense June 18, the TDs should say that and explain why their views have changed. Even then sticking with the original policy seems better, as there are more likely existing players or staffers who decide not to come than there are new players decide to play.

Whatever policy ends up being adopted, N95s are available for free at most pharmacies, including the CVS near Northwestern. There's a searcher here. Masks aren't always in stock so it's probably worth checking before traveling to Evanston.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Cheynem »

I think without weighing into the "are masks good" argument, I'd just say that it probably makes more sense to keep an extant policy than change things. I would imagine almost 0 people who weren't going to go to CO because of the policy now will go, but I can think of several people who, while might still go, would be far more uncomfortable and reluctant to do so. Nobody would have balked at the policy remaining in play for the weekend--after all, it had been announced far in advance and as far as I know, as Chris points out, there wasn't a "policy subject to change thing."
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by CPiGuy »

touchpack wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:32 pm
DumbJaques wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:34 pm (Also it seems like, pretty unacceptable to change the masking policy days before the event, after it had been in place for months, when people made travel arrangements based on said policy, etc. Perhaps I missed something, but I can't see anywhere that notes the announced policy would be subject to change - it seems quite emphatic - and 4 days seems unreasonably late to make such a change even if it did).
I very strongly agree with this post. Given how big the field is, it's fairly likely that a non-zero number of people are not comfortable with the update to the policy, and "if you don't feel comfortable, don't come" is a pretty bad argument when these people have already bought plane tickets, lodging, etc. It's far too late to change things now, so please revert to your previous policies that were communicated months in advance of the tournament.
Will add my voice to this chorus. I personally have no issue with the new policy in general, and would not be objecting had it been adopted from the start, but it seems really unfair to change it less than a week in advance when no indication was given that this was a possibility.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

We apologize for making a major policy change so close to the event and as such, we have decided to revert back to the original mask policy. Masks will be required at all times except when actively eating, drinking, moderating, or delivering tournament announcements.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

Every team contact should have gotten an email today with what your team owes and who to pay. If you are a team contact and don't see this in your email, please contact me ASAP.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

There will be free menstrual products available in the control room for anyone who needs them during the course of the tournament. If you do not feel comfortable asking for one, feel free to reach out to me or another staffer and we will make sure you get what you need.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Mike Bentley »

My team is now looking for a fourth player.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by miamc »

Final reminder to submit your vaccination information if you haven't already! We'll be closing the form at midnight CT tonight, so if you haven't submitted your info by then, you will be required to get there early on Saturday to show your proof of vax to the control room. (don't do this) (it makes things harder for everyone!) (just submit your vax info through the form today) (and make sure your teammates do, too) (thanks!)
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Captain Sinico »

It would seem that not everyone got the e-mail saying where and when to show up. If you would please add me to the e-mail list, I'd appreciate it. I'd also suggest posting those same details in this thread.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

Captain Sinico wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:30 pm It would seem that not everyone got the e-mail saying where and when to show up. If you would please add me to the e-mail list, I'd appreciate it. I'd also suggest posting those same details in this thread.
It hasn't been sent. Jacob is still driving here and I'm hoping we can get the details all out in just over an hour. I can, however, say that there will be team check-in in L158. Please send one representative with your team's buzzers and any remaining payments. Exact time will be posted once Jacob and I can touch base shortly.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

We will be in the Tech Building.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by ericlgame »

My team (Eric Chen, Michael Coates, Rohin Devanathan) is looking for a fourth player.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

We plan to start the tournament at 0830. You may start arriving at 0800.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Captain Sinico »

meebles127 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:34 pmIt hasn't been sent.
One of my teammates claims to have received such an e-mail already.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

Captain Sinico wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:21 pm
meebles127 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:34 pmIt hasn't been sent.
One of my teammates claims to have received such an e-mail already.
I was mistaken then, though we're planning on sending an update out tonight that'll be posted here as well.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

Minor adjustments to the brackets have been made in light of today's Travel Disasters. Enby 15 Whale has been swapped with 2020 Ontario Hybrid Champions. Refreshing the above link will show you the correct schedule.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

I am planning on starting the player meeting at 8:25 AM tomorrow morning in the Tech Center. Since CO is already a long enough day as it is, I am enforcing a start time of as close to 8:30 as the opening meeting ends to start reading tossup 1.

Check-in will start as close to 7:30 as I can get into the building to.

Thanks, and see you all at the tournament tomorrow!
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

All,

You may read your packets on bye in room M120. If there is no buzzer set in that room please come to L158 for a buzzer set.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

If anyone wishes to follow along with CO, you can view the scoresheets here.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

Lunch will be after round 6. Lunch will be one hour, exact re-start time will be announced when all/most rooms have finished.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

Lunch will be over at 235.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

Prelim stats (through lunch) can be found here. That's also where they will be updated after each round now.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

The rebracket is done. Please refresh your schedule and head to your round 10 rooms.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

Playoff stats will be updated here.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

You go Matt, Jack, do it again, wheel turnin' 'round and 'round is currently playing DAMN son, where'd you find this? A Quiz-a-holics remix for the right to play Up yours woke Borel-ists, we’ll see who open covers who in an advantaged final.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by meebles127 »

DAMN son, where'd you find this? A Quiz-a-holics remix is currently playing Up yours woke Borel-ists, we’ll see who open covers who in an advantaged final.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Serpentine284 »

This year's Chicago Open was the worst tournament I have played at in my whole life.

Firstly, my flight-mate Aadi Karthik (Georgia Tech) showed up 15 minutes late to our rendezvous spot before catching our flight on Friday. Unacceptable behavior from a future bestseller author. After that, I only had time to scrounge a Doritos packet for lunch, leading to a severely undernourished afternoon for me. Upon landing, we were unable to check into our hotel for an hour or so. The hotel claims that it was because "the law in Skokie did not allow anyone under 21 to check in", but it was quite apparent that it was a tactic by our opponents to prevent the two of us from playing.

After the tournament itself, I accidentally placed my McDonald's order not to the hotel that I was staying at, but to the plaza across the street. I realized immediately afterward, but Uber Eats would have charged me an extra $10.32 to reroute my order (or 819.37 rupees for my Indian readers). Because of this, I was forced to walk an excruciating 0.5 MILES to pick up my order.

On top of all this, my order for tonight did not include any plasticware despite my specific requests for it, and so I was once again forced to traverse another painstaking half a mile to ask a very kind Italian restaurant if they would give me a fork. I hereby swear to only eat Italian food from now on due to their timely assistance in my darkest hours.

oh, the set was also alright ig
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by etotheipi »

Serpentine284 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:05 pm Firstly, my flight-mate Aadi Karthik (Georgia Tech) showed up 15 minutes late to our rendezvous spot before catching our flight on Friday. Unacceptable behavior from a future bestseller author.
eleven minutes. not fifteen.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Cheynem »

This was a good set, fun experience, and well-run tournament (the moderators I had were probably the best I've ever had at a Chicago Open).

I do think that we played too many games. We basically played from 8:30 to 11 PM and more if you were in the finals. That's a LOT of quizbowl and certainly bang for your buck, but the day was just too long. I am not blaming anyone in charge of CO here--they didn't have a lot of great options for crafting a schedule out of the number of teams, but I guess I'm just gently appealing to quizbowl in general that maybe we can avoid such grueling marches of a day in the future, especially when there's 10+ more rounds of quizbowl to be played the next day.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by everdiso »

Agreed with Mike. The questions, games and running of the tournament were great, but 16+ rounds of packets this hard and long is too much for one day. I do appreciate getting to play that much quizbowl, so I'll gently suggest that, if future Opens are this long, they might be better split across two days, like Nationals. (This is especially true for years without C.O. Trash on Sunday.)
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by reindeer »

I really enjoyed staffing this tournament for the first 10 or so hours. The set was well-proofread and easy to read, the logistics ran pretty well, and the teams largely seemed to be enjoying themselves. I’ve forgotten who it was, but someone in my room said “I’m just annoyed, I’m not correct” as they stopped themselves from complaining about a question they’d missed, which is definitely a level of self-awareness that I’m going to hope to emulate in future.

I do agree with others that the day needed to be shorter. Shortening the schedule certainly would have helped, but I also want to point out that stricter question-length control could have allowed a similarly long schedule to feel less grueling. In packet 11 (chosen at random), the mean tossup length was ~920 characters and the mean bonus length was ~820 characters. That means the packet had the equivalent of 21 tossups and nearly 22 bonuses at the ACF Nationals caps of 875 & 750 characters respectively. If it’s possible to make every round ~10% shorter, and you’re running 16 rounds, a strict length cap saves real time even with no modification to the schedule. I know it’s a lot of work to control length that much at this difficulty, but if the effort is available it can make life much easier for players and TDs.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by ryanrosenberg »

I agree with the seeming consensus that the set was good and the day was long.

A couple of more detailed points:
- I think the editors should be particularly commended for putting together a quality CO when this group had significantly less experience writing tournaments of this difficulty than your typical CO editing team. It's very encouraging to see new editors step up given the perpetual turnover in hard tournament editors.

- Cutting down question length would help round speed, but so would having every room be double-staffed. I understand that this CO had an unprecedented need for staff, but this is probably the #1 thing a logistics team can do to ensure a tournament runs more smoothly.

- I don't feel super strongly about this, but I think a 90% conversion target on tossups is actually non-ideal at CO. Ramping down the difficulty to reach that level of conversion is bound to cause buzzer races during the giveaway, and secondarily it lengthens the tournament.

- The demand for this year's CO (27 teams! That's crazy!) seems unlikely to subside much for future years -- it's not like we had tons of teams from some unexpected source. We're going to have to think about how to structure future COs of 30+ teams.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by ThisIsMyUsername »

ryanrosenberg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:15 pm I don't feel super strongly about this, but I think a 90% conversion target on tossups is actually non-ideal at CO. Ramping down the difficulty to reach that level of conversion is bound to cause buzzer races during the giveaway, and secondarily it lengthens the tournament.
Why do you object to a 90% conversion target on tossups at CO specifically but not at other difficulties? Why would that cause more buzzer races at this difficulty?

And when you say "lengthens the tournament," you mean that teams get to hear more bonuses because fewer tossups are going dead? That's a good thing!
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by touchpack »

reindeer wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:05 pm I do agree with others that the day needed to be shorter. Shortening the schedule certainly would have helped, but I also want to point out that stricter question-length control could have allowed a similarly long schedule to feel less grueling. In packet 11 (chosen at random), the mean tossup length was ~920 characters and the mean bonus length was ~820 characters. That means the packet had the equivalent of 21 tossups and nearly 22 bonuses at the ACF Nationals caps of 875 & 750 characters respectively. If it’s possible to make every round ~10% shorter, and you’re running 16 rounds, a strict length cap saves real time even with no modification to the schedule. I know it’s a lot of work to control length that much at this difficulty, but if the effort is available it can make life much easier for players and TDs.
I very strongly agree with this, especially with bonus length. 820 characters as the mean length is very, very, very, very, very, very long. While ICT is a very different tournament from CO, at the Division 1 ICT this year the average bonus length ranged from 538-568 characters, depending on the packet, and the VERY LONGEST bonus in the entire set was 652 characters. The bonuses in this set could have been significantly shorter, probably saving a full hour of time at the tournament (possibly even longer?).
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Personally, I prefer the long CO experience. Traveling to Chicago on your own dime isn't cheap and CO (rightfully) has pretty high entry fees these days; having any fewer than 13-14 games played would be pretty disappointing. I'm probably in the minority in missing the 16-round COs of yore, but those aren't practical with today's field sizes.

I agree strongly with the above comments regarding length control and answer difficulty; changing both would help shorten the tournament meaningfully. The hardest CO of modern times, 2017, ended around 6-7PM if I recall correctly - not just because of only having 14 rounds, but because the tossups and bonuses were pretty short. Conversely, CO 2021 really needed some of that control; it had the same number of rounds, but a 9-line tossup limit and some longer bonuses, so the tournament went to 8:30 or 9PM. Furthermore, as John noted, more dead tossups actually leads to shorter games because fewer bonuses are heard, so, a set with harder answers and some better length control will indeed shorten your tournament.
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Cheynem »

Yeah, I'll have more to say when I see the set, but it felt like in particular bonus parts could get very verbose (which meant that the occasional very succinct part stood out!).

Paul has an interesting point about a two-day CO. For weekends in which there isn't a full length tournament on Sunday, you could probably finish CO proper on Sunday morning and then still play a few side events. However, that would make for a rather crunched (and tonal shifting) Sunday.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by ryanrosenberg »

ThisIsMyUsername wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:11 pm
ryanrosenberg wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:15 pm I don't feel super strongly about this, but I think a 90% conversion target on tossups is actually non-ideal at CO. Ramping down the difficulty to reach that level of conversion is bound to cause buzzer races during the giveaway, and secondarily it lengthens the tournament.
Why do you object to a 90% conversion target on tossups at CO specifically but not at other difficulties? Why would that cause more buzzer races at this difficulty?

And when you say "lengthens the tournament," you mean that teams get to hear more bonuses because fewer tossups are going dead? That's a good thing!
The most common way that adherence to the notion of 90% conversion creates a suboptimal playing experience is in the case of a hard tossup on a relatively easy answerline. The editor spends much of the question on very hard clues, then throws in a giveaway that anyone could buzz on. I believe the question on owls from this year's CO, which was entirely about owls on ancient coins before ending with "symbol of Athena", is a good example. This sort of question will invariably lead to a buzzer race in most rooms below the top bracket, and even in some top bracket rooms.

That sort of situation does of course happen at other tournaments. But other tournaments have demands of accessibility and points-scoring that are less strong at CO: the CO field is much more willing than any other to deal with a tossup going dead. In fact, hearing tossups on really hard answerlines is, I think, a major selling point of CO, in that it pushes the boundaries of quizbowl.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

After round 16, we had 1 team finish the playoffs at 7-1, while two other teams finished at 6-2. As a result of this, we had a play-in to an advantaged final.

In the play-in game, DAMN son, where'd you get this? A Quiz-a-holics remix (Matt Bollinger, Daniel Hothem, Natan Holtzman, Aseem Keyal and Carsten Gehring) defeated You go Matt, Jack, do it again, wheel turnin' 'round and 'round (Matt Jackson, Dylan Minarik, Adam Fine, Isaac Kirk-Davidoff) 375-185. In the first game of the advantaged final, Up yours woke Borel-ists, we'll see who covers who (Jordan Brownstein, Taylor Harvey, Jonathen Settle, Nick Jensen) defeated DAMN son, where'd you get this? A Quiz-a-holics remix 305-270 to win the tournament.

Thanks to everyone for playing, and expect to receive information from me this week about picking up individual and team book prizes later this week.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

Complete stats from the day can be found here. Please let me know if there's anything that needs to be fixed.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Galadedrid Damodred »

I uploaded the set to the packet archive, and it's pending approval for public release.

FIN
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by Smuttynose Island »

Just chiming to to say that I had a great time at CO this year. Big thanks to the editors for creating a fun and stimulating set, and to all the staff who went above and beyond to get through the long schedule.
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

Stats have been updated with any fixes I was told about so far. If anything else needs to be fixed, please let me know.

Top scorers and the top few teams can expect to receive an email from me about book prizes sometime around Thursday-Friday (since that's when I get back home).
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Re: 2022 Chicago Open: August 6, 2022 @ Evanston, IL

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

I'm still waiting to be paid a portion of their team's drop fee by Vikram Narasimhan. Vikram, please pay me ASAP.
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