2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Elaborate on the merits of specific tournaments or have general theoretical discussion here.
Post Reply
krollo
Lulu
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:54 pm

2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by krollo »

This is the specific question discussion thread for ACF Winter 2022. In the modern era discussion threads seem to become more and more obsolete, which is a great shame: I learned a lot about editing (and posting) from reading old discussion threads on here, and Discord chats are far less accessible to these kind of archival dives. I would really encourage people to reply here, even if only with brief thoughts. Packets will be uploaded shortly.
Joseph Krol

Cambridge 2016-22
krollo
Lulu
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:54 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by krollo »

While I wait for the HSQB upload to be approved the packets are available here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Joseph Krol

Cambridge 2016-22
User avatar
modernhemalurgist
Lulu
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:03 am

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by modernhemalurgist »

I enjoyed this set a lot. I'm not one for extensive feedback so I'll just give my impression on the music, which is that the score clues seemed rather difficult. I generally think this is a good thing, as recognizable but not "famous" score clues should be more normalized at lower difficulties. But maybe a bit more control would have been nice? Things like the Butterfly lovers score clue (which, incidentally, should have a "G" instead of an "F" - this and the following A would have helped given the pentatonic tonality) are quite hard to convert at any difficulty. And I loved the Sibelius score clues, but they kept going pretty long, even cluing the swan calls from 5 proportionally earlier in the tossup than CO did in 2021.
Jeremy Cummings
WUSTL 2020 - Present
University of Alabama 2017 - 2020
User avatar
Restitutor27
Lulu
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:45 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Restitutor27 »

This was a very good set. Here are a few comments on some specific history questions.

I liked the conceit for the Boudicca tossup in Packet 3 cluing her in a heavily source-focused way — the following is a probably unnecessary nit-pick but maybe worth mentioning.
16. A biography by Richard Hingley discusses Mortimer Wheeler’s discovery of this ruler’s namesake “destruction horizon,” a red layer of ash. Thomas Thornycroft sculpted a scythed chariot driven by this ruler, who supposedly invoked the war god Andraste. Either this ruler of “kingly descent” or the contemporary Cartimandua of the Brigantes (“bree-GAHN-tays”) is referenced in a passage that states “they make a solitude and call it peace” in a speech attributed to Calgacus (“cal-GAH-cuss”). This whip-scarred ruler avenged the rape of two daughters according to the Annals of Tacitus, whose Agricola barely discusses this consort of Prasutagus sacking Camulodunum (“cam-oo-LOH-doo-num”) and Londinium. Around 61 CE, this ruler was defeated by Gaius Suetonius Paulinus at the Battle of Watling Street. For 10 points, what Celtic Iceni queen revolted in Roman Britain?
ANSWER: Boudica [or variants like Boadicea or Boudicea or Buddug; accept Boadicea and Her Daughters; accept Boudiccan destruction horizon or Boudiccan destruction layers; accept Boudica: Iron Age Warrior Queen] <Other History>
The third sentence refers to one line from Calgacus' (possibly fictitious) speech in Tacitus' Agricola 31 — the exact quote is below.
[...] Since then you cannot hope for quarter, take courage, I beseech you, whether it be safety or renown that you hold most precious. Under a woman's leadership the Brigantes were able to burn a colony, to storm a camp, and had not success ended in supineness, might have thrown off the yoke. Let us, then, a fresh and unconquered people, never likely to abuse our freedom, show forthwith at the very first onset what heroes Caledonia has in reserve.

[...] Ita sublata spe veniae tandem sumite animum, tam quibus salus quam quibus gloria carissima est. Brigantes femina duce exurere coloniam, expugnare castra, ac nisi felicitas in socordiam vertisset, exuere iugum potuere: nos integri et indomiti et in libertatem, non in paenitentiam [bel]laturi; primo statim congressu ostendamus, quos sibi Caledonia viros seposuerit.
This is just supposed to be a reference to Boudicca — here Tacitus is making an error by confusing the Brigantes, who lived in modern-day northern England, with the Iceni in eastern Britain, and I can neither find any sources saying this could possibly be about Cartimandua (who incidentally is only mentioned by Tacitus), nor would it being so make any sense. Tacitus has a brief account of a revolt of the Brigantes in 47 or 48 (Annals 12.32) which has no stated link to Cartimandua (whose loyalty along with Venutius' to Rome is in fact mentioned in Annals 12.40) which was quickly put down by Publius Ostorius Scapula. The later major conflict involving Cartimandua is Venutius later declaring war on her in 57, in which she is actually aided by the Romans, being a client queen — this isn't a direct uprising attempting to "throw off the Roman yoke", but a conflict primarily against Cartimandua, and against her Roman allies by extension.
Spurning her husband Venutius, she made Vellocatus, his armour-bearer, the partner of her bed and throne. By this enormity the power of her house was at once shaken to its base. On the side of the husband were the affections of the people, on that of the adulterer, the lust and savage temper of the Queen. Accordingly Venutius collected some auxiliaries, and, aided at the same time by a revolt of the Brigantes, brought Cartismandua into the utmost peril. She asked for some Roman troops, and our auxiliary infantry and cavalry, after fighting with various success, contrived to rescue the Queen from her peril. Venutius retained the kingdom, and we had the war on our hands.
(Histories 3.45)
The sentence in the Calgacus speech definitely indicates the revolt taking place under the leadership of the unnamed woman — the error made by Tacitus here is saying Brigantes in place of Iceni, rather than a conflation of the two women (both of which he wrote about distinctly).

---

I really liked the Rhodes tossup in Packet 15, mainly because Greek history below around Regs level often isn't very varied in scope (e.g. a preponderance of Greco-Persian Wars content and questions on the government of a few major city-states) but this has an interesting range of types of clues. I'd suspect mentioning eastern Crete at the end of the second line makes it slightly easier than intended for people more solid on the exact geography than I am, but it's still perfectly fine for this difficulty.
10. An epigram by Martial advises substituting this island’s namesake hard biscuits for violence against the enslaved. In 200 BCE, this island refounded the Nesiotic League after it conquered eastern Crete. Famous athletes from this ally of Pergamon and Rome included the boxer Diagoras and the runner Leonidas. It’s not a Balearic island, but soldiers from this Doric-speaking island specialized as slingers. Artabazus II hired the mercenaries Mentor and Memnon from this island, which provided the epithet of the author of the Argonautica, Apollonius. After this Dodecanese island resisted a 305 BCE siege by Demetrius Poliorcetes (“pah-lee-or-SEE-tees”), it constructed a statue of Helios that was later toppled by a 226 BCE earthquake. For 10 points, the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World included what island’s Colossus?
ANSWER: Rhodes [or Ródos; accept Rhodians; accept Colossus of Rhodes or Kolossós tes Rhódou or ho Kolossòs Rhódios; accept Apollonius of Rhodes or Apollṓnios Rhódios; accept Siege of Rhodes; accept Memnon of Rhodes, Mentor of Rhodes, Leonidas of Rhodes, or Diagoras of Rhodes; accept Rhodian biscuits] (The second sentence refers to the Cretan War.)
<Other History>
---

I liked this tossup (Packet 10) as well, which has very interesting clues. I'd estimate it's a little hard for this difficulty and in several rooms will get only converted off of the modern Aswan High Dam, somewhat missing the point of the question while leaving people wondering "which Egyptian site can they ask" for a lot of it if they don't know it.
5. Note to moderator: Read the answerline carefully.
At this site, the “Autobiography of Harkhuf” describes a nomarch’s expedition to Yam in one of 200 painted “Tombs of the Nobles” at Qubbet el-Hawa. Naqada I (“one”) millstones were made from this site’s quarries of quartzite and red granite, where Hatshepsut built the Unfinished Obelisk. In 394 CE, the last known hieroglyphs were inscribed at this site south of Kom Ombo in Isis’s temple at Philae. This site at the First Cataract was the cult center of Satis, who formed a “triad” with Khnum near a nilometer on its island of Elephantine. In 1972, UNESCO designated the first World Heritage Sites after a project at this site motivated the International Campaign to Save the Monuments of Nubia; that project relocated the temples of Abu Simbel. For 10 points, Lake Nasser was formed by the construction of what Egyptian city’s High Dam
ANSWER: ʾAswān [or Souan or Swenet or Syene; accept Aswan High Dam or Aswan Low Dam; accept Abu Simbel or Philae or Qubbet el-Hawa until each is read; accept Elephantine or Gazīrat il-Fantīn until “Elephantine” is read; accept Ibhet or Bigeh or Agilkia; prompt on Egypt or Miṣr; prompt on Nubia or an-Nūba or Nobīn until “Nubia” is read; prompt on First Cataract until read; prompt on Lake Nasser or Boħēret Nāṣer until read] <Other History>
---

I also noticed the set has both a TU on Boudicca in Packet 3 and one on Nero in Packet 11 which overlaps a bit much temporally (and also clues from Tacitus) when there are still several centuries of untapped Roman history but maybe that's unavoidable when there's only a limited range of submissions to work with. I do like the theming around cluing from legacy though.
TB. This person supposedly made an unfulfilled vow that motivated namesake altars to Vulcan. A decade after this person’s death, Terentius (“tay-REN-tee-oose”) Maximus fled to Parthia after posing as a false version of him who popularized the legend of “[this man] redivivus (“red-ih-VEE-vuss”).” After his death, this man was called “ferus rex” in Statius’s Silvae. In gematria, this man’s name equals “666,” which led him to be identified as the Antichrist for his “exquisite tortures” described by Tacitus in a passage that also mentions Pontius Pilate’s execution of Jesus. After this emperor’s suicide, Vitellius continued to build his Domus Aurea (“DOH-moose OW-ray-ah”) during 69 CE’s Year of the Four Emperors. For 10 points, the Flavians succeeded what final Julio-Claudian emperor, whom early Christians vilified for the Great Fire of Rome?
ANSWER: Nero [or Nero Caesar or Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus; or Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus; accept ​​Nero Redivivus; accept Neronian persecution; accept Arae Incendii Neroniani]
<TB (Other History)>
Abigail Tan
University of Cambridge (Mathematics, 2020-2023)
COOT 2023 History Co-Editor, COOT 2024 Head Editor
User avatar
Restitutor27
Lulu
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:45 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Restitutor27 »

please delete this - wrong thread
Abigail Tan
University of Cambridge (Mathematics, 2020-2023)
COOT 2023 History Co-Editor, COOT 2024 Head Editor
User avatar
Chimango Caracara
Wakka
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Chimango Caracara »

Restitutor27 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:00 pm The sentence in the Calgacus speech definitely indicates the revolt taking place under the leadership of the unnamed woman — the error made by Tacitus here is saying Brigantes in place of Iceni, rather than a conflation of the two women (both of which he wrote about distinctly).
Thanks for catching this error and I'm sorry for letting it slip through. I got the impression from Tacitus and from the book Valorizing the Barbarians: Enemy Speeches in Roman Historiography by Eric Adler that Cartimandua was possibly the woman referenced in that passage, but I should have consulted more secondary sources.

I'm glad you enjoyed the other questions and thematic approaches you mentioned! The Nero question was moved to tiebreakers explicitly because of its temporal overlap with the Boudicca submission. I agree that I could have done a better job of hitting a wider range of Roman history, although I did try to include a bit more late antiquity in some of the bonuses (e.g. the Migration Period bonus and the hard part on Asturias in the Hispania bonus).
Nick Jensen
UC Davis Microbiology Graduate Group 2017-2022
Dartmouth College 2011-2015
User avatar
Restitutor27
Lulu
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:45 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Restitutor27 »

Chimango Caracara wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:33 pm
Restitutor27 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:00 pm The sentence in the Calgacus speech definitely indicates the revolt taking place under the leadership of the unnamed woman — the error made by Tacitus here is saying Brigantes in place of Iceni, rather than a conflation of the two women (both of which he wrote about distinctly).
Thanks for catching this error and I'm sorry for letting it slip through. I got the impression from Tacitus and from the book Valorizing the Barbarians: Enemy Speeches in Roman Historiography by Eric Adler that Cartimandua was possibly the woman referenced in that passage, but I should have consulted more secondary sources.

I'm glad you enjoyed the other questions and thematic approaches you mentioned! The Nero question was moved to tiebreakers explicitly because of its temporal overlap with the Boudicca submission. I agree that I could have done a better job of hitting a wider range of Roman history, although I did try to include a bit more late antiquity in some of the bonuses (e.g. the Migration Period bonus and the hard part on Asturias in the Hispania bonus).
Definitely — enjoyed the migration period bonus very much, and the Arabs/Petra/dams bonus that I didn't play. This might be better discussed in the general thread, but are there any particular guidelines as to what questions go in "other" when they could also fit under the usual definitions of European or World categories (e.g. the Turks question)?
Abigail Tan
University of Cambridge (Mathematics, 2020-2023)
COOT 2023 History Co-Editor, COOT 2024 Head Editor
User avatar
dni
Lulu
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:38 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by dni »

To add onto Jeremy’s post, a few more sparse errata about the score clues in Winter: the aforementioned inaccuracy in the Butterfly Lovers score clue, saying “A” instead of the “B-flat” (between the Ds) in the swan-call motif from Sibelius’s 5th symphony, and an A-major transcription (E - C-sharp - D - E - A) of the inverted theme of Paganini’s 24th when cluing Rachmaninoff’s Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, when it’s in D-flat major. I found that the music overall was enjoyable, but I think that care should be taken when including score clues (if choosing to do so at all), and I also agree that including these difficult score clues in the latter halves of tossups is probably not ideal.
Dan Ni
Langley '19
Cornell '23
User avatar
warum
Lulu
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:18 am

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by warum »

I was confused by Packet 2 TU 3, the religion TU on "wells."
In Gerar (“guh-RAHR”), Isaac rebuilds several of these places that had been destroyed by the Philistines. Joseph was said to have been taken from one of these places by a caravan of Midianites after being betrayed by his brothers.
I buzzed on the second clue and said "pit." In the story of Joseph and his brothers, I've always heard it told that they threw him into a pit. The answer line said to prompt on "pit" but I had no idea what else it was looking for, so I ended up with a neg.
It seems that various translations either mention a "pit" or a "well" for the Joseph story. I'm sure the first clue refers unambiguously to a well, but for the second clue I think it would be better to either accept "pit" outright, or just find a different clue to avoid the the translation ambiguity.
Natan Holtzman
Stanford 2024, UNC 2016, Enloe 2012
User avatar
efleisig
Lulu
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by efleisig »

dni wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:06 am To add onto Jeremy’s post, a few more sparse errata about the score clues in Winter: the aforementioned inaccuracy in the Butterfly Lovers score clue, saying “A” instead of the “B-flat” (between the Ds) in the swan-call motif from Sibelius’s 5th symphony, and an A-major transcription (E - C-sharp - D - E - A) of the inverted theme of Paganini’s 24th when cluing Rachmaninoff’s Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, when it’s in D-flat major. I found that the music overall was enjoyable, but I think that care should be taken when including score clues (if choosing to do so at all), and I also agree that including these difficult score clues in the latter halves of tossups is probably not ideal.
Thanks to you and Jeremy for the feedback on score clues and sincerest apologies for the errata mentioned, which have sparked some discussions about the importance of extra proofreading for score clues.

Eve Fleisig
UC Berkeley
Princeton '21 (club president)
Wootton HS '18 (club president)
Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War
Wakka
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War »

Restitutor27 wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:00 pm
I liked this tossup (Packet 10) as well, which has very interesting clues. I'd estimate it's a little hard for this difficulty and in several rooms will get only converted off of the modern Aswan High Dam, somewhat missing the point of the question while leaving people wondering "which Egyptian site can they ask" for a lot of it if they don't know it.
5. Note to moderator: Read the answerline carefully.
At this site, the “Autobiography of Harkhuf” describes a nomarch’s expedition to Yam in one of 200 painted “Tombs of the Nobles” at Qubbet el-Hawa. Naqada I (“one”) millstones were made from this site’s quarries of quartzite and red granite, where Hatshepsut built the Unfinished Obelisk. In 394 CE, the last known hieroglyphs were inscribed at this site south of Kom Ombo in Isis’s temple at Philae. This site at the First Cataract was the cult center of Satis, who formed a “triad” with Khnum near a nilometer on its island of Elephantine. In 1972, UNESCO designated the first World Heritage Sites after a project at this site motivated the International Campaign to Save the Monuments of Nubia; that project relocated the temples of Abu Simbel. For 10 points, Lake Nasser was formed by the construction of what Egyptian city’s High Dam
ANSWER: ʾAswān [or Souan or Swenet or Syene; accept Aswan High Dam or Aswan Low Dam; accept Abu Simbel or Philae or Qubbet el-Hawa until each is read; accept Elephantine or Gazīrat il-Fantīn until “Elephantine” is read; accept Ibhet or Bigeh or Agilkia; prompt on Egypt or Miṣr; prompt on Nubia or an-Nūba or Nobīn until “Nubia” is read; prompt on First Cataract until read; prompt on Lake Nasser or Boħēret Nāṣer until read] <Other History>
I also really appreciated this content, but I will say that the indicator was very confusing to me and to the teams I was reading this to.

The indicator of "this site" makes it sound like everything described was at a single archaeological site, which is definitely not the case. Futhermore, not all of the things described are actually in Aswan, only in the modern administrative region named for Aswan. Abu Simbel is a village separate from Aswan; Philae/Elephantine are certainly not the same "site" in archaeological terms as Aswan (even if they are within the modern city; it's also debatable whether they even were in the ancient city); and Qubbet el-Hawa is across the river from Aswan. I think an indicator of "in/near this modern city" would have been a more accurate description.
Daniel, Hunter College High School '19, Yale '23
Fisher
Lulu
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:10 am

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Fisher »

Firstly, thanks to everyone involved in editing/writing/organising this tournament, I thought it was a lot of fun and the questions were by and large very good.

There was one repeated answerline in particular I thought was quite odd. In one packet, there was the 'dead' tu in lit, and then in the very next packet played at the Oxford site, there was the 'death in lit' tu.

I've noticed that some other UK teams love to complain about any and all answerlines being repeated, even when it is clear they are in different categories and are from fundamentally different questions, and I don't agree with that complaint in general. For example, there was also a 'death in art' tu, which seems fine to have along with 'death in lit'. But 'dead' and 'death' being answerlines in the same broad category in consecutive packets threw me a bit.
Andrew Fisher
Sheffield '25 (PhD in algebraic topology)
User avatar
Chimango Caracara
Wakka
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Chimango Caracara »

Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:16 am The indicator of "this site" makes it sound like everything described was at a single archaeological site, which is definitely not the case. Futhermore, not all of the things described are actually in Aswan, only in the modern administrative region named for Aswan. Abu Simbel is a village separate from Aswan; Philae/Elephantine are certainly not the same "site" in archaeological terms as Aswan (even if they are within the modern city; it's also debatable whether they even were in the ancient city); and Qubbet el-Hawa is across the river from Aswan. I think an indicator of "in/near this modern city" would have been a more accurate description.
The word "site" was used somewhat loosely; I'm sorry that it was confusing.
Nick Jensen
UC Davis Microbiology Graduate Group 2017-2022
Dartmouth College 2011-2015
User avatar
Cody
2008-09 Male Athlete of the Year
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:57 am

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Cody »

I see no problem with using "site". Certainly, UNESCO doesn't, so it's a natural fit. The clues are carefully worded to help players arrive at the correct answer, including the clue about Abu Simbel -- which is about the Aswan High Dam, and the answerline is expansive. I do not understand in what meaningful sense Philae, Elephantine, and Aswan wouldn't be considered one site given that they are colocated due to the Nile's geography, and all are accepted until read. If you know any of the clues, you will be able to buzz on the tossup. I think it is a great idea for a tossup, with well chosen clues, and well executed.
Cody Voight, VCU ’14.
Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War
Wakka
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Subotai the Valiant, Final Dog of War »

Cody wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:33 am I see no problem with using "site". Certainly, UNESCO doesn't, so it's a natural fit. The clues are carefully worded to help players arrive at the correct answer, including the clue about Abu Simbel -- which is about the Aswan High Dam, and the answerline is expansive. I do not understand in what meaningful sense Philae, Elephantine, and Aswan wouldn't be considered one site given that they are colocated due to the Nile's geography, and all are accepted until read. If you know any of the clues, you will be able to buzz on the tossup. I think it is a great idea for a tossup, with well chosen clues, and well executed.
I enjoyed the tossup and thought the theme and content were good. What a "site" encompasses is often a matter of semantics, so I agree that it's definitely a fine tossup either way; I was just noting that this indicator choice could cause confusion when referring to large enough areas of settlement.
Daniel, Hunter College High School '19, Yale '23
User avatar
naan/steak-holding toll
Auron
Posts: 2514
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:53 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Agreed that "site" is totally fine for the Aswan tossup. I think it's a good idea, but the writing seems a clue or two too hard for this level IMO. If I had to guess, Abu Simbel probably falls within the realm of "things that many people will visually recognize easily, but may not know the exact location of." The building of the dam and preservation work is no doubt a contributing factor to this, and are of course many reasons you'd want to learn about Aswan. Still, I think an extra clue of space could be spent saying something more about a dam to smooth the later part of the tossup out for the Winter audience.

As written, the question seems more Nats or Nats-minus level to me. Having the second sentence ask for details of predynastic-era sites is going pretty deep for a below-Regs question; I don't think it'd be generating too many buzzer races with the correct answer to name drop Elephantine a full sentence (or more) earlier.
Will Alston
Dartmouth College '16
Columbia Business School '21
jzlau2
Lulu
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:05 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by jzlau2 »

I negged the cyanobacteria question with "gymnosperms" because some species of cycads produce the neurotoxin BMAA, and many other plants and other eukaryotic organisms also produce it. I probably deserved to get negged for that because BMAA is most often known as a cyanotoxin and also gymnosperms technically are a clade and not a phylum, but just thought it might be useful to know that the clue wasn't uniquely identifying.
Jonathan Lau
UIUC Laboratory HS 2021
Johns Hopkins 2024
o_h
Kimahri
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:43 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by o_h »

This is a bit late but I'll post it anyway.

Thanks to everyone who organised the tournament. I liked the TUs on kites, Prada, wells, magic, witch hunts, synthesizers, and the NRA, among others. I also appreciated that Persopolis was not referred to as “this novel”. I had a few specific things I wanted to highlight:
This dynasty’s official Sāng Hóngyáng (“sahng hongyahng”) instituted state control of grain and liquor under an emperor who established Gojoseon’s (“koh-joh-SUN’s”) “Four Commanderies” and Tàixué’s (“tai-shweh’s”) Imperial Academy.
This is from the Han dynasty TU. I think maybe something has got mixed up in the editing, as Taixue is not a person. “Imperial Academy” is a translation of Taixue.
[10h] Many stupas have reliefs or paintings of these stories whose name literally means “birth story.” Animals often feature in these stories of the previous lives of the Buddha that illustrate various virtues.
ANSWER: Jātaka tales [or Jātakas or Jātaka stories]
The claim that Jātaka means “birth story” appears to come from Wikipedia. I’m not sure that scholars are particularly clear on what the term Jātaka meant originally (although I could be wrong, I’m not an expert in Indic languages). At least in Naomi Appleton’s Jataka Stories in Theravada Buddhism, she says that the term appears on 2nd century BCE reliefs at Bhārhut, “though the precise meaning of the term at this time cannot be known” (p.53).
Fújiàn’s costly imports of Taiwanese rice led to copper shortages that inspired jiāozǐ (“j’yow dzih”) made of this material. Cài Lún (“tsai l’wun”) invented this material, which supposedly spread west after the Battle of Ṭalās.
ANSWER: paper [accept paper money; accept papermaking; or zhǐ; reject “papyrus”]
Here I’m showing my ignorance and would just like to know: was there much rice trade between Fujian and Taiwan in the Song dynasty? I’m glad to see “supposedly” used here for the Battle of Talas, by the way. This was a nice bonus set.
Medieval paintings depicted one of these figures with a flask and willow branch to evoke the “water moon.”
This is from the Bodhisattva TU. "Water moon” portraits of Guanyin (shuǐyuè Guānyīn 水月觀音) are so-called because of her posture, not because she carries a flask and branch. She is looking at the reflection of the moon on the water, hence the name. Also, Bodhisattvas are not gods, so the prompt on “Buddhist goddesses or equivalents” is not strictly speaking correct.
[10h] Another of the “Five Barbarians,” the Xiānbēi (“sh’yen-bay”), founded Tǔyùhún (“too-eww-hwun”), which the Tibetan empire conquered with these Indo-European people’s Tarim Basin oasis states of Kucha, Khotan, and Karasahr.
ANSWER: Tocharians (“toh-CAR-ee-uns”) [or Tókharoi; accept Tocharian languages; accept Agnean or Arśi; accept Kuchean or Kuči; prompt on Wūsūn] (The Four Garrisons of Ānxī controlled those cities when Tibet conquered them.)
I wonder how many people got this. This is a confusingly worded question (it's not clear on first pass whether the Tibetans conquered Tuyuhun with the Tocharians or conquered Tuyuhun and the Tocharians) and a difficult answerline. “Tocharian” is quite a contentious concept and does not reliably refer to a people. If you don’t mention that you’re referring to a linguistic group or a region then it makes it difficult to understand what this question is asking for. That yuezhi (月氏, sometimes read rouzhi) isn't given as an accept makes me think that the writer has relied too heavily on the Wikipedia page for Tocharian, especially the lede (which itself relies almost exclusively on a linguistics article published in Sino-Platonic Papers). This region was quite multi-cultural, and wasn't populated by a lone ethnic group.
Chinese characters were standardized on these cinnabar objects that became imperial symbols and personal identifiers.
ANSWER: seals
This is from Editors 2 so no big deal. However, the above is a misunderstanding of the history of Chinese characters. The script of Qin was standarised for the whole empire by Li Si under Qin Shi Huang, but during the Han that script eventually became obsolete and was mainly only used on ceremonial objects like seals, hence the name. Also, calling seals “these cinnabar objects” is weird. You can use cinnabar to colour things like lacquer, and lacquer seals exist, but most seals were stone or bronze or wood. The writer of this question appears to have confused the pigment commonly used when making an impression of a seal with the seal itself.
Oliver Hargrave
Oxford 2018-
User avatar
Chimango Caracara
Wakka
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Chimango Caracara »

Hi Oliver,

Thank you for pointing out some nuances that were elided by these questions. In some cases (such as Tocharians really referring to speakers of Indo-European languages and cinnabar referring to the color of many seals, not the main material component of seals), the language was originally more explicit but I tried to economize the wording since those bonus parts were rather long.

Fujian's Song-era rice imports from Taiwan (as well as Jiangsu and Zhejiang) are discussed Cultural Interaction Studies in East Asia: New Methods and Perspectives, although a few other sources (such as Rice: Global Networks and New Histories) seem to indicate that the scale of the trade increased during the 18th century.

The Taixue clue doesn't say that "Taixue" is a person; it was intended to just give the translation (although I can see that saying "Taixue, the Imperial Academy" would be clearer).

Since Guanyin is often called the "goddess of mercy" and is discussed as a deity by scholars like Chün-fang Yü, it seemed reasonable to me to include that as a prompt. I'm not sure the clue about water moon Guanyin is inaccurate since the flask and willow branch seem to be typical iconography for that pose (similar to how one might say that a lion evokes "Saint Jerome in his study," even though the essence of the scene, the saint sitting in his study, does not theoretically depend on the presence of a lion).
Nick Jensen
UC Davis Microbiology Graduate Group 2017-2022
Dartmouth College 2011-2015
o_h
Kimahri
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:43 pm

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by o_h »

Thanks for the reply.
The Taixue clue doesn't say that "Taixue" is a person; it was intended to just give the translation (although I can see that saying "Taixue, the Imperial Academy" would be clearer).
It says "Tàixué’s Imperial Academy". I'm not sure what that can mean other than the Imperial Academy of Tàixué. This isn't an issue of clarity, the way it's written is simply wrong. As I said I assumed it was just an error.
Fujian's Song-era rice imports from Taiwan (as well as Jiangsu and Zhejiang) are discussed Cultural Interaction Studies in East Asia: New Methods and Perspectives, although a few other sources (such as Rice: Global Networks and New Histories) seem to indicate that the scale of the trade increased during the 18th century.
Thank you. Unfortunately I think you've misread Matsuura's article, which says:
Cultural Interaction Studies in East Asia wrote:Up until the Song dynasty, low volume, high value products, which had a large interregional price difference, were common, but from the beginning of the Qing dynasty cargoes of coastal ships in particular are often large volumes of commodities. These would include rice, soybeans, and sugar. Fujian, which had constant shortages of rice, shipped it in from Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Taiwan.
So that's during the Qing, not the Song. I'm also not seeing anything about jiaozi notes.
Since Guanyin is often called the "goddess of mercy" and is discussed as a deity by scholars like Chün-fang Yü, it seemed reasonable to me to include that as a prompt.
I guess it depends on the level of pedantry in quizbowl, but I'm used to "Book of Revelations" (with an s) being rejected, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to insist on boddhisattvas not being gods. There is a certain level of "theological incorrectness" here, as the Buddha is also not technically a god but is often worshiped as one, so I take your point. "Goddess of mercy" on the other hand feels very old fashioned to me, but to each their own.
I'm not sure the clue about water moon Guanyin is inaccurate since the flask and willow branch seem to be typical iconography for that pose (similar to how one might say that a lion evokes "Saint Jerome in his study," even though the essence of the scene, the saint sitting in his study, does not theoretically depend on the presence of a lion).
It is quite atypical for her to be depicted with her flask or willow branch in that pose, which I think a quick google image search for water moon Guanyin or 水月觀音 will show. But even when those elements are present, they don't "evoke the water moon", which is what the question said.
Oliver Hargrave
Oxford 2018-
User avatar
Chimango Caracara
Wakka
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:29 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: 2022 ACF Winter – Specific Question Discussion

Post by Chimango Caracara »

o_h wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:48 am
Cultural Interaction Studies in East Asia wrote:Up until the Song dynasty, low volume, high value products, which had a large interregional price difference, were common, but from the beginning of the Qing dynasty cargoes of coastal ships in particular are often large volumes of commodities. These would include rice, soybeans, and sugar. Fujian, which had constant shortages of rice, shipped it in from Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Taiwan.
So that's during the Qing, not the Song. I'm also not seeing anything about jiaozi notes.
You're right, I'm sorry for the error.
Nick Jensen
UC Davis Microbiology Graduate Group 2017-2022
Dartmouth College 2011-2015
Post Reply